User talk:Makopoppo

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Hello from Friti

Hi Makopoppo,

I just wanted to say thank you for doing so much to help improve the wiki. Now i don't feel so alone anymore :-)

Let's keep in touch about our ideas and plans for the wiki, so that we can help eachother do the things that need to be done :-)

P.S. Happy new year!

--Fritigern 19:25, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

You're very welcome:) Happy new year! -Makopoppo 00:39, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Trash bin

It's a nice idea, and does hide the title of the old pages. But the problem is that those pages still remain on the the wiki. This problem also exists when using the template, but the difference is that with the template, all the pages will be gathered under Category:To Delete, where they will sit until Justin can get around to killing them all off.

Redirecting to trash may therefore only lead to forever hiding them, and never actually getting them deleted.

--Fritigern 09:08, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for commenting. That's why I added a line to WikiTodo to peep in Special:WhatLinksHere/Trash_Bin. And, actually only the current active sysop is Justincc, and he is busy on codes, coming features and a lot of bugs added to Mantis every day. So we anyway cannot rely on immediate maintenance of Wiki and therefore we as users basically have to act against the problem by ourselves - do our best to hide those page as soon as possible.
Or, if you are interested in becoming sysop to solve the problem quickly, you might want to let Justincc know.
-- Makopoppo
Actually, I rather want Justincc to concentrate on OpenSimulator code base than solving unrelated article issues on this wiki like spams. I recommended you for sysop now. -- Makopoppo 11:35, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks to Justincc, now we both have ops, so we can simply delete spam pages and images immediately. I've deleted every spams as much as I can find, and I'll check User Contributions of New Accounts to watch the activities of newly created accounts, I think which is the most efficient way of finding spams - as far as I see, all the spammers post one page and one image per account. Note that images will not be on the ToDelete list even if you add {{delete}} tag, so you anyway find them by Special:NewImages. Thanks -- Makopoppo 02:20, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Entry on development team page?

Hey Makopoppo. Do you think it would be a good idea to have an additional section for wiki sysops on the Development Team page? I'd really like to give you guys some recognition for the work that you're doing Justincc 14:24, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Cool:) Thank you for your consideration! I've added mine at the bottom of current page so that you will be able to move it after creation. -- Makopoppo 14:45, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
Done - please adjust if necessary. I also let Fritigern know on his talk page - Justincc 15:26, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Language links in template

Hi Makopopo,

I was doing some maintenance on Заглавная_страница (Russian main page), and i can't figure out how to get the language bar to work properly.

I also don't know Russian, and i don't think you would know any either :-)

Anyway, could you have a look at that page? I am not sure if "language bar" is the correct term, but it's the bar just below the one with the buttons from {{template:quicklinks}}

--Fritigern 09:25, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I fixed and saved. {{MainPageQuicklinks}} and {{Quicklinks}} can have one argument which is the name of original(english) page. If argument not provided, the page itself will be considered as original(english) and language link won't appear. By the way, {{MainPageQuicklinks}} is used only for Main Page and its localizations, which has larger icons than {{Quicklinks}}. I almost forget to mention about the difference between {{Template:Quicklinks}} and {{Quicklinks}} - both are just the same and generally the latter is often used.-- Makopoppo 10:01, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
Wow, that's pretty confusing. I should read this again after i have had some sleep :-) Thank you for fixing it though. It's been bugging me for some time now.
--Fritigern 10:06, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
Okay, i've had some sleep, and i am starting to understand. Can we do away with {{Template:Quicklinks}} and just keep {{Quicklinks}}? Maybe we can create a bot for certain search/replace functions. I'm sure it will come in handy.
--Fritigern 22:37, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
I fix it when I notice and there is another thing to change. I personally think it is not so important thing to fix around manually only for that, the page appearance won't changed. And if we do manually, Recent Changes page will become too complicated so it will be hard for the users to find the changes in the articles. If we have bot, it will be handy and bots won't dirt Recent Changes if it is properly set. Can you write a bot script? I want to do that but I have some articles to finish up soon. Thanks. -- Makopoppo 23:13, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I wish i knew how to write a bot, but i'm afraid i don't know how to do that. However, we may not have to wrote a bot ourselves. There may be one (or more) already available somewhere. We should look into this :-) --Fritigern 00:22, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

mokay... I created my own bot with DotNetWikiBot Framework and it works fine now. I'll run it fully after my bot account is added in bot group so that the wiki history won't dirt anymore(Justincc seems to be away today so I guess it will take a few days). For now, I'll make it remove "Template:" prefix and replace external links to internal one. -- Makopoppo 13:31, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Should the wiki be upgraded?

First off, it's awesome that you've got a bot working. I've looked into it, and it just confused me. Ah well... ^_^

Now, i have been looking at Special:Version and i was pretty shocked to see that the wiki (the MediaWiki software, that is) is still at v1.13, which came out in 2008. More recent versions have better protection against spam, auto-completion in search, and a lot more improvements that are either badly needed here, or desired.

What do you think, should we nag Justin and ask him to upgrade the wiki?

--Fritigern 16:11, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

At least not now! He's still recovering... It's rather joke but I personally don't think that it will improve our experience of writings and settings quite much. As far as I've seen from its release notes, the progress stays within server-side settings and the system against h@ckings. Actually, v1,13 has anti-spam feature - but we can't change server-side settings to enable it, since it is php variables in MediaWiki deploy, not changeable from wiki interface. -- Makopoppo 10:21, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
I'd love to upgrade the wiki but unfortunately it's a question of getting the time. It's not straightforward because there are various links and things mixed in (e.g. mantis). But it does need to be done. If there's a really compelling new feature or security fix then please do bug me about this Justincc 21:22, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Anytime you're available:) It is the thing to done to be better, but not in hurry. And I'll watch for any problems it will cause afterward. -- Makopoppo 23:53, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

An Idea Which Has Been On My Mind For Some Time

As the header says, this idea has been on my mind for some time now, but only now do i actually have a little more clear picture in my head about this.

Let me try to say this as briefly as i can, if it lacks in tact, then it's not meant like that, i just want to get my idea across:


My idea is to virtually split the wiki in 2 or more parts. A part for developers and/or advanced users, and a part for less tech savvy end users. I will call these parts Developers and Users, just to give them a name.


The Developers part should contain technical documentation, development status, etcetera. Basically everything that regular users would not be able to understand, or are simply not interested in.

The Users part would contain basic info, documentation, and procedures, like how to set up a server in wordings that they can understand, or what to do if they can't connect their server to the grid that they signed up for. Or even how clone the git and compile OpenSim on their own (which is a very confusing article to regular people, btw).


The Users part can again be split up in sections for beginners, intermediate, and advanced, should this be needed. The Developers part could be split up too, in however way would be useful.


I do realize that splitting, or sorting, the wiki this way would take a lot of time. Although most of it would be moving articles and categories into a new, into an additional, or into a different category. Several articles will have to be split into a user part, and an advanced or developer part.

I definitely think that this would benefit the usability for all users of the wiki, from beginners, to developers, and even the sysops. Because everyone would be able to easily find information at their own level of expertise.


I would really like to hear your thoughts about this.


P.S. I also think it would be a good idea to have several portals on the wiki, and either link to them from the main page, or add them to the main page.

P.P.S. I am discussing this idea with you, because we really should stop having our own little or large projects, and collaborate as much as possible. We should know what the other is doing and try to help eachother as much as we can. To use a duth expression: we need to get our noses to face in the same direction. If we don't, then we will just keep getting in eachother's way. So communication is vital, and we will have to agree on things that will impact the wiki, wether the impact will be large or small.

--Fritigern 14:19, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for being quick reply, and I haven't yet fully read your comment, if my reply is far off the mark. I have written the memo in User:Makopoppo/ThoughtOfGuidesTOC, which has my thought about the possible document TOC. I'm not sure it is cover the full topic about OpenSimulator, but it would be some reference for considering categorizing the contents. I'm now working on mantis, there are still ton (no longer ton from a few days ago though) of issue piling for years, so for me wiki is rather low priority(except spam or some trifle issue). I'll read your comment tomorrow (or a few hours later in your timezone), and might make some comment, but I maybe can't actually move well on the wiki until the mantis issues will be cleared for some amount. -- Makopoppo 14:33, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
It seems not the matter only you and I can decide, I posted my thought in opensim-dev mailing list to know the community thoughts. Please see it there. -- Makopoppo 17:37, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
I've just read the discussion on the mailing list and it looks like my idea gave you additional ideas, which is cool, although i don't think that creating new subdomains would be a good idea. It would make it feel like the wiki was really split into multiple different wikis. This would also cause problems with overlap I think my idea is a little simpler., which is to make use of namespaces and categories. Should an overlap occur (like if there's an article that can be placed under advanced users, but also under developers), we can simply add them to both categories. But placing them into two different subdomains would take more work.
As sysops, we can just go ahead, and do all this. In the end, it will improve the readability. It will give the users of the wiki a starting point at their own level. A start could be to create new categories, and start moving other categories into them, and later re-categorise individual articles.
This would be a pretty big step. But i am sure that it would work well for everyone.
P.S. It look like the people on the mailinglist don't know that you are a wiki sysop, and i also think that Dahlia thinks you are proposing a new article....
--Fritigern 20:38, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm writing this in the train on ipad. If my spell is broken, it woule be probablly because of that. Since you said "communication is vital, and we will have to agree on things that will impact the wiki", I thought communication with people is before going is vital too. You parhaps already know but, dahila and meranie is Beaurocrats on this wiki, higher than ours. And we simply undergo the job the users might want to do that for them, so if we make big changes, I think we'd better consulting it to them before going. And in the mailinglist we "can" say our opinion as an user, not as a sysop, it is great point. Indeed we might feel they are not so kind to understand our opinion easily, but they have "created" OpenSimulator for years, and many of the users on mailinglist have contributed their articles or support for newbies, they shouled be ther person to be respected. My sight is, wiki sysop jobs is, to say, like "clearing undergrowth", which as itself is not so "superior" job. I'll continue discussing it on the mailinglist, if you have some more opinion, you might want to post it there too. (Since despite the link to here, they likely not keep watching here) --Makopoppo 23:41, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Something i have been playing with

I am not sure if you have seen it yet, but i have been working on a footer box for categorized pages, somewhat similar to what Wikipedia has.

My idea is to add these footer boxes to the end of pages of certain categories. Like we can have a footer box with interesting links to pages in the user category, the developer category, scripting, OSSL, Physics, etcetera. It would be like a standardized "see also" section.

To see what I mean, please have a look at User:Fritigern/BrainStorm#Footerbox_template, but keep in mind that i am not completely happy with it yet. Still, this is the basic idea, and it would be great if we can fix the layout of the footer box, maybe add some features, and then deploy it.

I would like to hear your thoughts about this.

--Fritigern 18:06, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion Box Ideas

The recent spam attacks and other issues hitting the OpenSimulator.org site I suggested the following which Friti suggested I point out to you as well. Have a peek-a-boo at MediaWiki_talk:Titleblacklist

hope it helps --WhiteStar 13:28, 28 March 2012 (PDT)

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