Chat log from the meeting on 2013-05-21

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[12:07] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: tc Justin
 
[12:07] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: tc Justin
 
[12:07] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
 
[12:07] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
</pre>
 
<pre>
 
[10:59] Teravus Ousley: greets
 
[10:59] Now playing: Farbrausch - fr08 .the .product
 
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: hello
 
[11:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi everone
 
[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, The stair climbing patch you did was for git master. I'd like to have that in 075PF but one of the BulletSim files patched in master doesn't exist in 075PF.
 
[11:00] logger sewell: hey all
 
[11:00] Robert Adams: which file is that, Andrew?
 
[11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, BSAvatarActorMove.cs
 
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi bluewall
 
[11:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi
 
[11:02] Robert Adams: Andrew, that probably means all the actor additions are missing... cherry picking might not be a solution
 
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, no, a cherry pick failed complete. One file that doesn't exist and rejects on all the other changes.
 
[11:03] Robert Adams: a more radical solution would be to take the whole BulletSim tree and drop it in your system (Region/Physics/BulletSPlugin)
 
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Since the one file is missing I can't (at the moment) do a manual patch.
 
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I thought about doing that.
 
[11:03] Robert Adams: BulletSim is fairly independent
 
[11:03] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks nods
 
[11:04] Robert Adams: remember to get the DLLs and SOs also... the C++ code changed also
 
[11:04] Teravus Ousley: yay for physics separation
 
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Teravus, indeeed
 
[11:04] Teravus Ousley: (there are some sizable challenges as a result of that separation.. but.. tradeoffs :))
 
[11:04] logger sewell: Hi Kayaker
 
[11:04] Fearghus McMahon: hi everybody
 
[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Hi Logger, everyone!
 
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: Uhmm iis bullet working on linux ?
 
[11:05] Robert Adams: Richardus, yes but there have been some library dependency problems on some Linux distributions
 
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, It works as well as BulletSim works. I did do a brief test un der Linux.
 
[11:05] Fearghus McMahon: i got one region running with bulletsim on centos
 
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: ok. at some point i can check it. right now fighting with desktops :O
 
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, there was some thing missing that caused an issue with BulletSim use and Linux/mono
 
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: Wright Plaza is running Bulletsim
 
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: well it would be opensuse here
 
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: hi neb
 
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Linux Mint for me.
 
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: all of my regions are on OpenSuse
 
[11:06] OtakuMegane Desu: It seems to mostly work when I'vtried it recently. Had to compile it myself though, CentOS 5 doesn't seem to like the default ones
 
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i think there may be issues on 32 bit still Robert?
 
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: or was that fixed?
 
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: always compile opensim on linux
 
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I could tell you. I'm only running 32-bit Linux
 
[11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: probably some of the native system libraries and the bullet dll?
 
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: 32bit. who is useing that ^^
 
[11:07] OtakuMegane Desu: 32-bit is soo last decade. :P
 
[11:07] Marcus LlewellynMarcus Llewellyn uses 32-bit Linux. :)
 
[11:07] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Bulletsim good on Fedora 32 and 64 bit
 
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: well It was broken on 64 bit, then Robert fixed that, and then after that reports came in that 32 bit was broken
 
[11:07] Teravus Ousley: I have a virtual PC on my Mac that uses 32 bit :P
 
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: are you guys running master git?
 
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: or latest OSgrid release?
 
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I am and will continue to do so until such time as you can run a 64-bit machine without need for any 32-bit libraries.
 
[11:07] Fearghus McMahon: i've never compiled opensim onlinux yet...just using the osgrid download so far
 
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: this break was very recent
 
[11:08] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: git master here
 
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: git master
 
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ok
 
[11:08] Robert Adams: the glibc libraries have been getting updated recently but the newer version aren't in all distributions yet
 
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: it probably got fixed
 
[11:08] OtakuMegane Desu: I usually run master
 
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: most i run still 0.7.5 with one 0.7.6dev sandback. but running behind. still setting up things
 
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, which version of glibc?
 
[11:08] Robert Adams: so I have to be careful about libraries needed
 
[11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: some distros are slow to change
 
[11:09] Robert Adams: glibc 2.14 has an updated memcpy.... most distributions don't have it yet
 
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: some distros like OpenSuse 11.4 are no longer being updated
 
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Um... glibc or just glib?
 
[11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: people could possibly build the bullet libs from source if they fail
 
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: its not so easy for me to upgrade either
 
[11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: Debian Stable is often problematic in that fashion.
 
[11:09] Robert Adams: there is also updates to glibcxx (to 3.9, I think)
 
[11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Robert, will it compile on the older ones?
 
[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: well soem hoster that stil serve r11.4 is running behind. start to work with 12,3 myself
 
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have glibc installed on my machine
 
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: how can i check wich clib is installed ?
 
[11:11] Robert Adams: Bluewall, it does compile on the older ones... my problem is that my build environment keeps linking to the latest-and-greatest then the binaries don't work on the older distributions
 
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: uhh glib :O
 
[11:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Robert, cool. I'm thinking about users's compilting it on their systems in case it fails
 
[11:11] Marcus Llewellyn: Rich: Your distro's package manager might tell you.
 
[11:11] Fearghus McMahon: heya justin
 
[11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think most people dont' understand the way pinvoke works
 
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: hi feargus, folks. sorry I'm late
 
[11:12] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
 
[11:12] Robert Adams: Bluewall, that works and I know of some who have done that
 
[11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Justin
 
[11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: cool, then it's good that there is a workaround
 
[11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Dahlia
 
[11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: <--- Materials Girl
 
[11:13] Dahlia Trimble: hi
 
[11:13] Dahlia Trimble: lol
 
[11:14] Teravus Ousley: materials girl.. yes :)
 
[11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: will those work on mesh avatars?
 
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Only glibc files I have are part of cross-compilers I have installed.
 
[11:14] Dahlia Trimble: probably
 
[11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: woot
 
[11:14] Robert Adams: Justin, what is the state of SOP dynamic properties... are they completed and usable?
 
[11:14] Richardus Raymaker: glibc v2.17-4.4.1 if i have the right one on opensuse 12.3
 
[11:14] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks wonders why glibc isn't showing up in Synaptic.
 
[11:14] Dahlia Trimble: I used them
 
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: they exist, but they may still need to change in response to actual usage
 
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, dahlia has taken the brave step
 
[11:15] Dahlia Trimble: materials are stored there
 
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: however, I think any changes will probably relate to how data is stored retrieved rather than data formats
 
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: What sort of properties are dynamic?
 
[11:15] Robert Adams: I was going to start using them to store extra physics properties (like user set center-of-mass)
 
[11:15] Marcus Llewellyn: If you apply materials to a mesh avatar, you can't leave your sim, unless you want to reapply the materials every time you return to it or another materials enabled simulator. ;)
 
[11:15] Dahlia Trimble: you can add a OSDMap to a SOP
 
[11:16] Teravus Ousley: haha, anything you don't want to write a database connector and migration for? :D
 
[11:16] Robert Adams: just wondered if you thought the design had settled down or whether they were about to change
 
[11:16] Dahlia Trimble: Marcus, latest version should fix that
 
[11:16] Marcus Llewellyn: Awesome, Dahlia. :)
 
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I think data format change would only occur if actual use found some significant problem with how it's being done at the moment
 
[11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: Are OARs/IARs working with materials too? I saw a commit regarding that. When I tested it, I couldn't get it to work, though.
 
[11:17] Dahlia Trimble: only reason it's "experimental" now is that LL may change it, or if something is not working or changes in dynamic attributes
 
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: I think you could probably go ahead and use it
 
[11:17] Dahlia Trimble: we need some rules about naming though
 
[11:17] Robert Adams: are the dynamic properties serialized to the DB and OAR/IAR files?
 
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes
 
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yes. Though if they reference assets then those currently need code in UUIDGatherer to scan and collect them
 
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: which I want to make modularizable sometime soon
 
[11:18] Richardus Raymaker: question, soemone fund it and i see it to. why does "land show" only display 252,252,0 as result. also scipt parcel divide seems to go wrong
 
[11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: in what way are these different from prim properties?
 
[11:18] Robert Adams: excellent
 
[11:19] Dahlia Trimble: and maybe some rules enforcement, like in a script cant write anything that starts with 'OS:"
 
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: best not to store large chunks of data in them though. Largue chunks should probably remain in assets
 
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah, that might be an idea
 
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: though I can also imagine an argument for allowing scripts to do that as a communicaton mechanism with modules
 
[11:19] Richardus Raymaker: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6608
 
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: then you get into the hairness about concurrency
 
[11:20] Dahlia Trimble: ya but modules could read anything
 
[11:20] Robert Adams: the JSONStore is the best inter-script comm system... it has changed events and locking and all that's needed for taht
 
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: not a bug
 
[11:20] Teravus Ousley: I know.. we should have comprehensive permissions trees on every node *wink*
 
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yeah, mic put in a hack to have the SOP dynattrs as the backing store for JSONStore
 
[11:21] Richardus Raymaker: ? ok, justin... still weird..
 
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: minimum land parcel square is 4 meters
 
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: but I see your point, so maybe it's something to consider
 
[11:21] Dahlia Trimble: a scene-level DynAttrs would be kinda cool too :) *hint*
 
[11:22] Richardus Raymaker: someone else found it. only note it.
 
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: melanie previous put in a key:value store for regions but that's structurally different
 
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I think a dynattrs for scene presence could also be a good idea too
 
[11:22] Robert Adams: Dahlia, at which level? parcel, region, ??
 
[11:22] Dahlia Trimble: oh whats it called?
 
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: would allow npc stuff to be stored there, for instance, rather than in parallel data structures
 
[11:22] Dahlia Trimble: at top level of the scene
 
[11:23] Dahlia Trimble: something not tied to any object in the scene
 
[11:23] Robert Adams: 'scene' as in OS simulator level?
 
[11:23] Dahlia Trimble: yes
 
[11:23] Dahlia Trimble: or region level
 
[11:23] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley associates 'scene level' with Scene.cs in OpenSim.Region.Framework
 
[11:23] Robert Adams: you can do that with JSONStore.... it can be used just as a named store that scripts can reference
 
[11:24] Dahlia Trimble: I mean a persistant one
 
[11:25] Dahlia Trimble: anyway I didnt really need it, just occured to me while doing the materials stuff that it might be a nice feature
 
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: look at GetExtraSetting(), StoreExtraSetting(), RemoveExtraSetting() on Scene
 
[11:26] Dahlia Trimble: ty
 
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I am wary of dynamic attributes. It makes things easier than changing the database but I think we need to watch for any efficiency issues
 
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: and currently the need to lock the entire structure on any data change is pretty awkward
 
[11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: could linq be used with all this?
 
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know
 
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe if one were to write the required glue
 
[11:28] Teravus Ousley: we don't really use much linq in opensim :)
 
[11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I'm not an expert on it, I have just come across it a few times
 
[11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: seems like a way to make handling data generic
 
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: justin, what if the locks were in getters and setters?
 
[11:29] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley uses it for querying object data collections in work.. but hasn't used it in OpenSimulator.
 
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: maybe for getting/setting an entire OSDMap, but that would still leave you vulnerable to concurrency issues of changing settings within the map
 
[11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: A while back we talked about upping the tools from 3.5
 
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: I will do that once the next Debian is released
 
[11:31] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Dahlia ran into an issue with default parameters that would have worked if we were on 4.0
 
[11:31] Dahlia Trimble: lol debian releases are rare
 
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, wikipedia is saying may 4th ot 5th 2013 :)
 
[11:31] Teravus Ousley: Maybe, if instead of a single lock on that collection.. there's multiple lock spaces
 
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: yeah, I was thinking along those lines - wanted to see what it looked like under 'real' usage first
 
[11:32] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev          3ce1981: 2013-04-29 22:21:57 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
 
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: another alternative is to have 'dynamic objects' instead of attributes
 
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: which get serialized whenever the sop is seralized and deserialized when it's deserialized
 
[11:33] Teravus Ousley: Early optimization is bad :) yes.
 
[11:33] Dahlia Trimble: I saw those but didnt know what they were
 
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: that way modules, could deal with first class objects and we concurrency could be simpler, I think
 
[11:33] Robert Adams: BulletSim will have one OSDMap with values that are updated by a region module based on script functions
 
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: it's more tomwards the entity:component approach I think
 
[11:33] Teravus Ousley: If we really need to do something about it, we could always implement a 'first letter locking mechanism' hack that.. has a separate lock object for the first letter of the namespace
 
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: would any object need serialization methods?
 
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: I was thinking that modules could register for the ser/deser event and handle it however they like
 
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: oh
 
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: is that the way it works now?
 
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: so they could choose how to use the data to reconstitute objects which they would add to a generic dictionary on sop
 
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: no
 
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: at the moment, on serializatio nwe simply use generic libomv code to serialized the OSDMap
 
[11:35] Dahlia Trimble: I meant on the dynamic objects
 
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: haven't implemented it yet :)
 
[11:35] Dahlia Trimble: oh thought I saw it in code
 
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: it's not nice to do since it involves some adjustment of our existing serialized code
 
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: serialization code
 
[11:36] Dahlia Trimble: there was DynAttrs and DynObjects
 
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, haven't completed DynObjects
 
[11:36] Dahlia Trimble: ah ok
 
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: but DynAttrs would be continue to be valid
 
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: they would remain the persistent store
 
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: so when completed it would be backward compatible
 
[11:38] Dahlia Trimble: oh so currently DynObjects stores System.Object references?
 
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes
 
[11:38] Dahlia Trimble: k
 
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: I want to look at optimizatio nfor DynAttrs since having an extra DAMap for every SOP may not be trivial
 
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: if you have 40000 SOPS for instance, that's an extra 40000 DynAttr objects
 
[11:39] Dahlia Trimble: probably would want an ICOmponent interface that defines a few methods like for serialization and message handling
 
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: would be better if they could be null if not used, but that's a little awkward to do I think
 
[11:40] Dahlia Trimble: I dont think OSDMaps use much space if unused
 
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I need to get a better sense of just how much memory is used by mono/.net oibjcts
 
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: never really delved into that space
 
[11:41] Dahlia Trimble: but a null reference for a map might work
 
[11:41] Teravus Ousley: It's fun to keep a lot of texture byte[] references around.
 
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: heh
 
[11:42] Dahlia Trimble: are byte[] references?
 
[11:42] Teravus Ousley: The array is a reference
 
[11:43] Dahlia Trimble: Ive seen them get borked when they fall out of a using() scope
 
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, perhaps we should see if there are any other opensimulator questions for the remaining 20 mins
 
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: anybody?
 
[11:43] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley wakes up people
 
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: I was able to confirm that objects rezed from tarash
 
[11:44] logger sewell: Justin do have any idea when the 7.6 will be out ?
 
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: err Trash*
 
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: I'm hioping to start the process soon but there are a few issues I want to look at first
 
[11:44] Kayaker Magic: I submitted a Mantisa bout llGetTime() returning negative numbers and numbers in the past, but
 
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: if you rez an item directly from your trash can, anyone who takes a copy the item goes back to trash can, this is impropper
 
[11:44] Kayaker Magic: I'm waiting to try a newer Mono to see if that fixes it
 
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: like exactly why changing the thread pool makes certain issues with ghost avatars go away
 
[11:44] Richardus Raymaker: that bug is very old nebadon.
 
[11:44] logger sewell: ok thanks
 
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: back to the rezzer's trashcan?
 
[11:45] Teravus Ousley: negative get time is pretty cool. That sounds like it may have something to do with Environment.Tickcount wraparound
 
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: actually I think it's a mono bug :)
 
[11:45] Richardus Raymaker: think i have seen that trashcan bug between 0.74 and 0.7.5 for first time
 
[11:45] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, the negative time is always just about 3600 seconts in the past
 
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: the same one that was causing diva to see the sun jump around at regular intervals
 
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: which was fixed in 2.10.6 or later I think
 
[11:46] Teravus Ousley: oh, nifty.. and here I thought that was a joke that sdague was playing from before :)
 
[11:46] Robert Adams: it's not April 1st
 
[11:46] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0.0
 
[11:46] Kayaker Magic: I have mono 2.10.6, supposed to be fixed in 2.10.8
 
[11:46] Lani Global: Here is a curiosity... for most of this year, in my inventory, I often see items I created and gave away, but with other people's ownership. Perhaps that is related?
 
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: no it seems to go to whoever takes its trash
 
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: even if I send them a copy
 
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: its not going to objects
 
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: let me show you
 
[11:47] Teravus Ousley: Could be two things.. could be a stored folder.. or the 'delete object' routine is kicking in and sending it to trash
 
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: try taking a copy of that red box
 
[11:47] Kayaker Magic: Is Mono 3.0 working with opensim now?
 
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: could you name it something other than primitive? :0
 
[11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it went to "My Suitcase"
 
[11:48] Fearghus McMahon: my regions run on mono 3.6 or 7 now i think Kayaker
 
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: there you go
 
[11:48] Richardus Raymaker: only thing i have seen iand i think its something todo with the --profile --home option in iar / oar that perms got lost when you load it on other place. not sure if thats a bug with HG ?
 
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: that is not surpising Bluewall. your HG
 
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: yes, I believe it works well, thuogh still not with the newer garbage collector
 
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: everything is forced to suitcase
 
[11:48] Teravus Ousley: It ended up in lost and found
 
[11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I wanted to see if it would fail
 
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya it either goes to lost and found
 
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: or trash
 
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should never do either of those things
 
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should go to objects
 
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: same thing happens if I send this object to someone
 
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: they cant find it
 
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: I took a copy but it doesn't show up in my inventory
 
[11:49] Richardus Raymaker: it appears in lost & found nebadon
 
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya
 
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: something very wrong
 
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should always go to Objects
 
[11:49] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ok, what if you put it in a folder named "Stuff" and the revieving person has a folder named "Stuff" will it go there?
 
[11:49] Richardus Raymaker: but i cant do anything with it. not delete not move
 
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... in Singularity 1.8.0 it shows up in Lost and Found for just a second then disappears.
 
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: I think something similar happens
 
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: i use old astra
 
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if I rez an object from a folder in my inventory
 
[11:50] Fearghus McMahon: kayaker, only issue i've had was teleporting out of my region would crash it sometimes...but that i have not seen yet with the latest osgrid release
 
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: and then delete that folder
 
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: Astra Viewer 1.6.5 (3)
 
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: The red cube gets lost completely on a take.
 
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya most of the time no one can find it
 
[11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: Does this also happen with a direct offer of inventory to another person? Is it only objects, or does it occur with other assets such as textures or clothing?
 
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but it should be either in one of the 2 places
 
[11:51] Richardus Raymaker: i see it. but no control on it
 
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I can't find it either. Inventory moves for a moment but then moves back
 
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I have only seen this happen with items you can rez
 
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: objects
 
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I take it this is only stuff retrieved back from trash?
 
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: It goes to L&F but then immediately disappears from that folder and a search doesn't turn it up anywhere in inventory.
 
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: right
 
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: what starts it is i rez it directly from trash to ground
 
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: then basically from that point on its ruined
 
[11:52] Richardus Raymaker: ANdrew. maby my viewer is buggy i still see it. but i think its gone
 
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: unless i move it to objects
 
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: then rez it again
 
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that fixes it
 
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: does sound like some last rezzed from inventory folder issue
 
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: I am almost certain its been this way for years
 
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: just no ones really said anything about it
 
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but lately its really getting on my nerves
 
[11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: what if the reciever has a folder named the same as the one you take it from?
 
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I noticed that in Avination and said something about it there but it was supposed to be the "correct behaviour"
 
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think that matters
 
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: because its all UUID references
 
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: none of our rountines rely on folder naming
 
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: the uuids would never match
 
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: to land back in trash.
 
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: apart from some iar/oar commands
 
[11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe it is looking for "Trash" here, but then goes to "My Suitcase"
 
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I think whats happening is the lastfolder uuid is not found
 
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: so it sends it to lost and found
 
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: which is wrong
 
[11:54] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, i think i mentoined that problems month ago already. or soemthing like that. only never seen it so bad as now
 
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i am assuming its called lastfolder
 
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i have no idea how we reference that
 
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, probably that should get set back to UUID.Zero which I think would trigger it to go in the correct 'type' folder
 
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: didnt dig that deep
 
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. Objects for objects
 
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... Perhaps it is looking for the trash folder based on the UUID of the owner who rezzed it and a folder by the same name may exist in someone elses inventory but they would have a different UUID
 
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: right
 
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: that sounds sane Justin
 
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, though that wouldn't work for the original rezzer
 
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: so possibly there needs to be code to ignore the last folder if the user is not the object 'owner'
 
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: well nothing you ever take or receive should ever automatically go to lost and found or trash
 
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: not ever
 
[11:55] Richardus Raymaker: it would be good if opensim looks what type of object ,texture, photo, objetc and put it there for the new owner
 
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: only time that happens is if you decline
 
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: it gets moved there
 
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise objects should always go to Objects folder no matter what
 
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: btw, did you get any further with setting avatar properties via llSetLinkParams() and similar?
 
[11:57] Richardus Raymaker: yes nebadon
 
[11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: not much, I have looked into it a couple of times
 
[11:57] Lani Global: I've seen many things I take or copy go to Lost and Found
 
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I might get a chance myself soon, though it's queued behind a bunch of other things
 
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: don't want to tread on any work you may already have done
 
[11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I see you have mode several things to support it
 
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: mode?
 
[11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have only looked so far
 
[11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ohh, "made"
 
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I did clean up a bunch of stuff when doing the get portion
 
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. common routines to get the avatar correctly for a given link number
 
[11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think you have some methods to get SEO
 
[11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lists of them
 
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: search engine optimization?
 
[11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Scene Entity Obj
 
[12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think
 
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... I was thinking search engine optimization :-)
 
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: oh, you mena sop :)
 
[12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the base
 
[12:00] Teravus Ousley: right, the base type
 
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, ISceneEntity and similar
 
[12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes, that
 
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: our horrific crappy interface hiearchy :)
 
[12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: @.@
 
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go eat. Thanks for the meeting, folks
 
[12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: well, that works, but what I didn't want to do is check everything coming through there to from a bottleneck
 
[12:01] Kayaker Magic: Loger, do you know what version of Mono is running on VH?
 
[12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: thank you JCC
 
[12:01] Fearghus McMahon: bon appetit Justin
 
[12:01] Robert Adams: bye all
 
[12:01] Teravus Ousley: byese
 
[12:01] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves
 
[12:01] Fearghus McMahon: c ya robert
 
[12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: see ya Robert, thanks
 
[12:02] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
 
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, if 076 is "coming soon", I might as well wait instead of dropping BS from master in to 075PF
 
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya
 
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I just also confirmed
 
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: if you rez an object from a folder
 
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: then delete that folder
 
[12:02] Lani Global: thank you Justin!
 
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: and take a copy of that item it goes to trash or lost and found also
 
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: major borkage
 
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: no wonder this is happening so much
 
[12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that makes sense
 
[12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I mean, it shouldn't do that
 
[12:03] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Dahlia: the latest group offerings have group chat working, provided your all on the same sim. That was tested in a HG ebvironment
 
[12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but at least it's a repro
 
 
</pre>
 
</pre>
  
  
 
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]
 
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]

Latest revision as of 21:07, 24 October 2015

[11:07] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: i been having probs between .7.6 regions
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: in some weeks i hope i can test that more to
[11:08] Antoni.Gaudi @art.no-ip.org:9000: craft and francogrid......have not good hypergrid implementation
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[11:08] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: buit my bandwidth is currently maxing at 50 KB/s
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: i guess justin is the walking hair ?
[11:08] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: we have upgrades about ten regions with 0.7.6 and tp seems to be better
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: i see a few invisible avatars
[11:08] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: upgraded*
[11:08] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: i had to revert to a .7.3 version for stable jumps
[11:08] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: You are doing well with that Arielle
[11:08] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev          ba6a6b2: 2013-05-21 18:18:16 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: when you say 0.7.6 which date?
[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: brr 0.7.43 never go ue that again. so buggy
[11:09] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Current
[11:09] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: commit 55c9bc
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: when you sya tp is better, in what way?
[11:09] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: 0.7.6 Dev e65d1e4
[11:09] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: faster and less tps fail
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: 0.7.6 should be in general better
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: the revision fred quotes has something that will heopefully fix the issue with users not being able to tp back into some regions sometimes
[11:10] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: anyone test on lower bandwidths?
[11:10] Sarah Kline: hi
[11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: hi sarah
[11:11] Sarah Kline: )
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: uhhh, i can now set the bandwidth on the switch how i want
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: think lowest would be 64Kbyte
[11:11] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: Singularity for example had to fix their code because login with less then 60 KB/s was not possible
[11:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: whereas other viewers it was
[11:12] Richardus Raymaker: cant believe there people that try to run sl on lower then that :O
[11:12] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: I am from a group of 9 small grids and standalones, and we have no known issues, except IM
[11:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: not everyone has a choice Richard
[11:12] Richardus Raymaker: in what way IM problems fred ?
[11:13] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: IM when a user leaves their home sim
[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: Arielle, running sl with 64KB/s means you need 1 day to load a sim.
[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: no
[11:13] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: works one way, but not the other
[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: aha.. i know that problem i think. its some weeks ago. but i turned soem HG things off with saved messages and groups
[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: yes, i have seen that too Fred
[11:14] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: bit of a killer for collaberation
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway ,any opensim topics this week?
[11:15] Kayaker Magic: Can I plug the moving a seated avatar problem?
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: you certainly can
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: any progress?
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: what is the problem?
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: could you remind me exactly what we're talking about?
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: when an avatar sits on an object,
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: moving wva lsl params commands as a member of a linkset?
[11:17] Richardus Raymaker: hmm forgot to check.. is the terrain edit working correct in 0.7.6 ? i sw the strength slider did not work right with soem options. but forgot wich viewer. at least with asyta 1.6 strange things hapepnd.
[11:17] Kayaker Magic: llSetLinkPrimPramFast is supposed to be able to change their position.
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: right. No progress yet but it is in my mind
[11:17] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: question
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: and hopefully I should get the chance now to loko at a few things
[11:18] Kayaker Magic: It is big on some of the grids, I see people complaining in the forums that they don't have a good posing system for lack of this.
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: pls go ahead
[11:18] Kayaker Magic: There is a popular product in SL called AVsitter that depends on this
[11:18] Richardus Raymaker: magic sitter ? easy sit ?
[11:19] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: Id like to list the opening of my new area..it's educational.but not sure how to get ppl there
[11:19] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: any suggestions?
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: what kind of audience are you looking to reach?
[11:19] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: tell maria korolov
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: heh yes
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: hypergridbusiness.com
[11:20] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: students....teachers...general public..not fussy at the moment
[11:20] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: I run the archaeological island on the VIBE grid
[11:21] Kayaker Magic: Oh, I was involved in an opensim based announcement system, see http://thegridcache.com/news.php and try announcing your site there
[11:21] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: register at http://thehypergates.com too
[11:21] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: wew are going to begin with educational sims too, just doing some test specially for child protection
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: yes, you could try hypergridbusiness, forums such as osgrid.org and g+ communities like osgrid.org and opensim virtual
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: oh yes, various other places as well
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, no one central place :)
[11:21] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: great
[11:21] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: let me copy and paste that
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: there's also an opensim-edu mailing list on the opensimulator.org site which has educators on, though often quite quiet
[11:22] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: ahhhh
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't really recommend the opensim-users or dev mailing lists since they're really for opensim user and dev questions
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: though maybe it would be nice to have an announcement list
[11:23] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: we're listed on some directory.I think it is on the open sim one
[11:23] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: all good suggestions...ty ty
[11:23] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: the G= communities are big for announcements atm
[11:24] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: G+
[11:24] Antoni.Gaudi @art.no-ip.org:9000: 1.786.546.765.123 regions for few avatars......
[11:24] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: the main goal is to have it used for online class's
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey nods
[11:25] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: but I'd like feedback first
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: you might find greatest reliability in a non-hypergrid configuration
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: unless having people able to visit is essential for your needs
[11:25] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: ?????
[11:25] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: heh
[11:26] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: we are configuring the authorization service so that the accesses to teh school region are regulated
[11:26] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: not sure what u mean Justin
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: you're visting from some hypergrid enabled opensim installation,. right?
[11:27] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: yes
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: but perhaps I am making the wrong assumption and your teaching sim is not hg enabled?
[11:27] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: I believe it is
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, so hypergrid is a very interesting and useful thing, but it does add a layer of complexity on top of opensim
[11:27] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: it is open to visiting from the general public?
[11:28] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: excuse.I'm just an educator /builder.not sure of the tech end
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: so running without hypergrid would potentially improve reliability but would not make it so easily accessible
[11:28] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: yes it's open to the public as well
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: ok, someone else is administering your simulators?
[11:28] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: yes
[11:28] Antoni.Gaudi @art.no-ip.org:9000: something like an HYPERGRID PLAZA is needed(for all activities)
[11:29] Antoni.Gaudi @art.no-ip.org:9000: and INWORLD
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: I guess it's the difference between having an intranet webserver and a public webserver
[11:29] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: a small group of educators formed an educational grid...VIBE..and I run the archaeological region
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: a public webserver allows anybody to see things but also means much more unpredictable traffic/load. etc.
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: but may be essential for what you hope to do
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: of course, opensim is nowhere near as reliable as a webserver :)
[11:30] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: in italy there is an educational grid called Edmondo nut teachers are working in Craft too because in an hypergridded grid they can find ideas and help (collaborators)
[11:30] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: but*
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey nods
[11:30] Richardus Raymaker: justin, sofar i know for HG yiou need apublic webserver.
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: the webserver thing is an analogy - not an exact match
[11:31] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: you do?
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: I was talking figuratively
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: anyway, nice to hear about vibe, and edmondo too, licu
[11:32] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: smile
[11:32] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: ty ty
[11:32] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: again ty for the help
[11:32] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: bye
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: bye nova
[11:33] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: bye nova
[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: so whats the plan for getting 200 avatars into on conference?
[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: on=one
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: praying :()
[11:35] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: with intel system?
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: haha
[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: lol
[11:35] Dahlia Trimble is online.
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: or rather, do more load tests and identify bottlenecks like login and why they are occuring
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: which to me means adding more stats
[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: how many came at the last test?
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: technically we had 121 clients, I believe
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: 124 i think was the peak
[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: oh not bad
[11:35] Antoni.Gaudi @art.no-ip.org:9000: no
[11:36] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: any slowdows?
[11:36] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: no lag during synchronisation when an avi arrives?
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: there was almost no lag
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: but around 120 avatars it got hard to log in
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: and a few avatars got knocked out
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: had trouble getting back
[11:36] Richardus Raymaker: but the sims where empty with objects ?
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: I suspect some of that can be fixed
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: there was some objects there Richardus
[11:36] Richardus Raymaker: also no inventory that need to load if you HG
[11:36] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: is there a way to divert incoming to the least full region?
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/load_test_regions_001.png
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/load_test_regions_002.png
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: Arielle not at the moment no
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: should be possible in principle by setting max avatars and then naming the other keynotes as backup regions?
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: i was hoping that once the default region was full it would send people to the next fallback region
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: but that did not work
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: ahhh
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: thats what i did
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: and it did not work
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: then that's... a bug
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: people got region is full message
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: and bounced back to their departure sim
[11:38] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. some missing code in opensim
[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: Hi Dahlia
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: technically im not sure its a "bug"
[11:38] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: i think thats how it works
[11:38] Dahlia Trimble: hi :)
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: inside of a normal grid teleport
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: if you try to teleport to a full region you get sent back to region you came from
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah - but weren't those direct logins?
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: which is exactly what happened
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: no there are no direct logins for these tests
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: its all HG visitors
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: ah right
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: only direct logins were controlled by me
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: perhaps at the extreme some new code could be written to do that
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: but then the problem may not have been related to that - need more data
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: likely what we would need
[11:39] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: which is the easiest on the regions?
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: it would need to be tailored to HG teleports specifically
[11:39] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: HG or direct logins?
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: you would not want this to happen in a local grid teleport
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: a teleport is probably less harsh
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: potentially it is anyway
[11:40] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: but HG avi likely has inventory loaded before jumping
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: a login has the potential for an empty cache
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: shouldn't it apply to all teleports?
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: a teleport that is less likely
[11:40] Dahlia Trimble: I doubt theres much difference
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: no Justin it should not
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: in a local grid tp
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: you would not want to send an avatar to an unknown region if they hit a full region
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: you send them back to region they left from
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: why wouldn't you in this particular case?
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: where one of the keynote regions is 'full'?
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: in this case we would
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: but under normal use cases you would not
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: right
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: so it would just be code for this particular case, though I'm sure potentially useful for any large gathering
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: during the actual event
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: it wont work this way though
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: might be compilcated to do though with the current architecture of advertising regions
[11:41] Richardus Raymaker: so, some option in the ini IfRegionFullUseFallBack =
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: during the actual event people will be limited to the region they are assigned for the keynote
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: ah ok
[11:42] Richardus Raymaker: aha
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: so its really only relevant to the load tests per say
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: not that its not useful
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: btw, this might be crazy, but did you consider doing the keynotes as one big mega? ;)
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: I thought about it, but i dont think we could get 200 avatars into 1 simulator
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: though that would rather bypass the point of doing 4 corner regions
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: not without something like DSG
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: right - too early for dsg
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: we are pushing the limits at 50
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: practical limits anyway
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah
[11:44] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon is playing with dynamite :O
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: the problem is with that many avatars people get disconnected a lot
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: mono can only handle so many connections
[11:44] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: if we had variable regions you could make 50 meter square regions :)
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: even .net would have issues without changing the code considerably
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: that would start to point towards overload of the udp connections
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: right
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: wel,l in this case the connectivity is maintained via udp
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: which isn't subject to those limits as it's connectionless, I believe
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: udp doesnt have connections
[11:45] Cuteulala Artis is offline.
[11:45] Richardus Raymaker: but udp have opther problems
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: udp is very low overhead, if theres problems its probably in the application since it controls everything
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: it could be that the load means we no longer process incoming viewer packets in time and so the server ends up disconnecting them after the timeout
[11:45] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: is udp working in opensim now?
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: if it wasn't we wouldn't be having this convo :)
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:46] Richardus Raymaker: hehe
[11:46] Dahlia Trimble: Adelle, you wouldnt be here if it wasnt working
[11:46] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: well the udp inventory and textures were no tworking recently
[11:46] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: udp fallback
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: that's different
[11:46] Cuteulala Artis is online.
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: does udp fallback work now btw?
[11:47] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: i havent tested since Melanie put a patch in
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I'd be interest in confirming that fix
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: interested
[11:47] Cuteulala Artis is offline.
[11:48] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: it was a combination of viewer and opensim
[11:48] Unknown User: /do we have a stress test later this evening?
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: not today
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: next week
[11:48] Unknown User: k
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i will announce it early next time
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i am still setting up the grid
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i have about 8 more regions to bring online
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah, I hope to add more of the kind of stats I want to see and be able to monitor personally next time
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: sure that would be great
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: it will be after this meeting, right?
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[11:50] Cuteulala Artis is online.
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i am hopefully going to have munin tracking things as well
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. there are more monitor systems. seems to be a new one to
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i had it running on this server previously so shouldnt be too hard to get going again
[11:51] Richardus Raymaker: you remind me that i need to install it to. forgot it on the new one
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i'll probably have iptraf running too
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, really need to start outputting data consistently from opensim so it can be plugged into monitoring systems
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: at the moment that kind of thing is a mess
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder if everybody is waiting on the xbox announcement today?
[11:54] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. i saw 1 thing today. someone from HG where takeing objects. but..
[11:54] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: is there a place on the wiki on what and how to use these monitoring debug testing systems?
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Monitoring
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: not really Arielle
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ah what does that cover?
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: though yes, that just talks about various stuff but not how to plugin external systems
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya i thought she meant like Munin
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: it would be nice if it did one day
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect she might
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya there used to be a way to monitor some of that stuff
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: but it wasnt that great
[11:56] Richardus Raymaker: i saw when the do that a hug spam of messages that start with "[USER AGENT CONNECTOR]: new connector to http:"
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: that's still there but the things I've been adding to the latest and greatest stats system are not automatically exposed that way
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: really, all this stuff needs to be tied together so that adding a stat also makes it externally available if that is turned on
[11:56] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: well i was just meaning in general to help in testing
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya it would be nice if someone could make up a fancy json ajax page
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: huh
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: i know bluewall has some of that kind of stuff
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: he had a cool web page that was fed from json stats and it had like tachometer like guagers
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: guages*
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: it was neat
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: richaruds: that should just be on startup?
[11:57] Richardus Raymaker: no. that where with 2 HG visitors on my 0.7.5 regins getting objects
[11:58] Richardus Raymaker: it shows more. it came from germangriud
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: ok no I see, it's created in a lot of places
[11:58] Richardus Raymaker: its just spamming the console a bit much
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: the trick is being able to reduce that spam whilst still keeping the info available
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: is this something that you noticed recently?
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: the message itself has been there since sept 2010 but it's possible some new code now triggers it much more frequently
[12:00] Sarah Kline: bye all
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: are you running in debug mode?
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: for logging?
[12:00] Richardus Raymaker: i just saw it the first time today.. its printing around 1 message every 3 seconds. but its with 0.7.5 release
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: bye sarah
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: honestly any region where production levels are expected should not be running with debug logging
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: we run these plazas in INFO
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: and if you start experiencing issues then you switch back to DEBUG until you can find the problem
[12:02] Richardus Raymaker: the log say debug. but i cant remember i ever turned it on. so how can you check the log level ?
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: if you are going to hvae a really large event
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: you should turn logging to OFF
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: edit your OpenSim.exe.config
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: there are 2 spots
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: not even ERROR?
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: it depends i guess
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: if your not looking for bugs and need the highest level of performance
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: shut it off
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: if things start acting funny turn it on
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: during the OSG5B parties we turn logging off
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: it can make a big difference
[12:03] Dahlia Trimble: ERROR shouldnt be much
[12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, logging can be a not insignifcant load
[12:03] Richardus Raymaker: let me check
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: if ERROR is genrating spam then we need to do something about that
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: right
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: I know the map stuff can spew a lot right now
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: on places like osgrid
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: if your having trouble by all means turn on ERROR or DEBUG
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: but don't leave it there unless your specifically hunting for something
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: we leave it on INFO and that greatly reduces the console spam
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: while still being semi-useful
[12:05] Richardus Raymaker: if i look quick at the xml file its turned on i think. but thats the default from 0.7.5 source
[12:05] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: is there a show queues function for http?
[12:05] Dahlia Trimble: bye all :)
[12:05] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: tc Dahlia
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: see you Dahlia :)
[12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahlia
[12:05] Zia Frimon: Caio Dah
[12:06] Richardus Raymaker: thaks justin. i save this and look into it when i have ore time. it dont happen much
[12:06] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia
[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm going to go do some work as well. See you all around
[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey waves
[12:06] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: bye justin
[12:07] Zia Frimon: waves
[12:07] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: tc Justin
[12:07] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
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