Chat log from the meeting on 2013-05-21
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[11:07] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: i been having probs between .7.6 regions | [11:07] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: i been having probs between .7.6 regions | ||
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: in some weeks i hope i can test that more to | [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: in some weeks i hope i can test that more to | ||
Line 354: | Line 350: | ||
[12:07] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin | [12:07] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
+ | <pre> | ||
+ | [10:59] Teravus Ousley: greets | ||
+ | [10:59] Now playing: Farbrausch - fr08 .the .product | ||
+ | [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: hello | ||
+ | [11:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi everone | ||
+ | [11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, The stair climbing patch you did was for git master. I'd like to have that in 075PF but one of the BulletSim files patched in master doesn't exist in 075PF. | ||
+ | [11:00] logger sewell: hey all | ||
+ | [11:00] Robert Adams: which file is that, Andrew? | ||
+ | [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, BSAvatarActorMove.cs | ||
+ | [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi bluewall | ||
+ | [11:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi | ||
+ | [11:02] Robert Adams: Andrew, that probably means all the actor additions are missing... cherry picking might not be a solution | ||
+ | [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, no, a cherry pick failed complete. One file that doesn't exist and rejects on all the other changes. | ||
+ | [11:03] Robert Adams: a more radical solution would be to take the whole BulletSim tree and drop it in your system (Region/Physics/BulletSPlugin) | ||
+ | [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Since the one file is missing I can't (at the moment) do a manual patch. | ||
+ | [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I thought about doing that. | ||
+ | [11:03] Robert Adams: BulletSim is fairly independent | ||
+ | [11:03] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks nods | ||
+ | [11:04] Robert Adams: remember to get the DLLs and SOs also... the C++ code changed also | ||
+ | [11:04] Teravus Ousley: yay for physics separation | ||
+ | [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Teravus, indeeed | ||
+ | [11:04] Teravus Ousley: (there are some sizable challenges as a result of that separation.. but.. tradeoffs :)) | ||
+ | [11:04] logger sewell: Hi Kayaker | ||
+ | [11:04] Fearghus McMahon: hi everybody | ||
+ | [11:04] Kayaker Magic: Hi Logger, everyone! | ||
+ | [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: Uhmm iis bullet working on linux ? | ||
+ | [11:05] Robert Adams: Richardus, yes but there have been some library dependency problems on some Linux distributions | ||
+ | [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, It works as well as BulletSim works. I did do a brief test un der Linux. | ||
+ | [11:05] Fearghus McMahon: i got one region running with bulletsim on centos | ||
+ | [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: ok. at some point i can check it. right now fighting with desktops :O | ||
+ | [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, there was some thing missing that caused an issue with BulletSim use and Linux/mono | ||
+ | [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: Wright Plaza is running Bulletsim | ||
+ | [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: well it would be opensuse here | ||
+ | [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: hi neb | ||
+ | [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Linux Mint for me. | ||
+ | [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: all of my regions are on OpenSuse | ||
+ | [11:06] OtakuMegane Desu: It seems to mostly work when I'vtried it recently. Had to compile it myself though, CentOS 5 doesn't seem to like the default ones | ||
+ | [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i think there may be issues on 32 bit still Robert? | ||
+ | [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: or was that fixed? | ||
+ | [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: always compile opensim on linux | ||
+ | [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I could tell you. I'm only running 32-bit Linux | ||
+ | [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: probably some of the native system libraries and the bullet dll? | ||
+ | [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: 32bit. who is useing that ^^ | ||
+ | [11:07] OtakuMegane Desu: 32-bit is soo last decade. :P | ||
+ | [11:07] Marcus LlewellynMarcus Llewellyn uses 32-bit Linux. :) | ||
+ | [11:07] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Bulletsim good on Fedora 32 and 64 bit | ||
+ | [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: well It was broken on 64 bit, then Robert fixed that, and then after that reports came in that 32 bit was broken | ||
+ | [11:07] Teravus Ousley: I have a virtual PC on my Mac that uses 32 bit :P | ||
+ | [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: are you guys running master git? | ||
+ | [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: or latest OSgrid release? | ||
+ | [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I am and will continue to do so until such time as you can run a 64-bit machine without need for any 32-bit libraries. | ||
+ | [11:07] Fearghus McMahon: i've never compiled opensim onlinux yet...just using the osgrid download so far | ||
+ | [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: this break was very recent | ||
+ | [11:08] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: git master here | ||
+ | [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: git master | ||
+ | [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ok | ||
+ | [11:08] Robert Adams: the glibc libraries have been getting updated recently but the newer version aren't in all distributions yet | ||
+ | [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: it probably got fixed | ||
+ | [11:08] OtakuMegane Desu: I usually run master | ||
+ | [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: most i run still 0.7.5 with one 0.7.6dev sandback. but running behind. still setting up things | ||
+ | [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, which version of glibc? | ||
+ | [11:08] Robert Adams: so I have to be careful about libraries needed | ||
+ | [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: some distros are slow to change | ||
+ | [11:09] Robert Adams: glibc 2.14 has an updated memcpy.... most distributions don't have it yet | ||
+ | [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: some distros like OpenSuse 11.4 are no longer being updated | ||
+ | [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Um... glibc or just glib? | ||
+ | [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: people could possibly build the bullet libs from source if they fail | ||
+ | [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: its not so easy for me to upgrade either | ||
+ | [11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: Debian Stable is often problematic in that fashion. | ||
+ | [11:09] Robert Adams: there is also updates to glibcxx (to 3.9, I think) | ||
+ | [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Robert, will it compile on the older ones? | ||
+ | [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: well soem hoster that stil serve r11.4 is running behind. start to work with 12,3 myself | ||
+ | [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have glibc installed on my machine | ||
+ | [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: how can i check wich clib is installed ? | ||
+ | [11:11] Robert Adams: Bluewall, it does compile on the older ones... my problem is that my build environment keeps linking to the latest-and-greatest then the binaries don't work on the older distributions | ||
+ | [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: uhh glib :O | ||
+ | [11:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Robert, cool. I'm thinking about users's compilting it on their systems in case it fails | ||
+ | [11:11] Marcus Llewellyn: Rich: Your distro's package manager might tell you. | ||
+ | [11:11] Fearghus McMahon: heya justin | ||
+ | [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think most people dont' understand the way pinvoke works | ||
+ | [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: hi feargus, folks. sorry I'm late | ||
+ | [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin | ||
+ | [11:12] Robert Adams: Bluewall, that works and I know of some who have done that | ||
+ | [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Justin | ||
+ | [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: cool, then it's good that there is a workaround | ||
+ | [11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Dahlia | ||
+ | [11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: <--- Materials Girl | ||
+ | [11:13] Dahlia Trimble: hi | ||
+ | [11:13] Dahlia Trimble: lol | ||
+ | [11:14] Teravus Ousley: materials girl.. yes :) | ||
+ | [11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: will those work on mesh avatars? | ||
+ | [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Only glibc files I have are part of cross-compilers I have installed. | ||
+ | [11:14] Dahlia Trimble: probably | ||
+ | [11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: woot | ||
+ | [11:14] Robert Adams: Justin, what is the state of SOP dynamic properties... are they completed and usable? | ||
+ | [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: glibc v2.17-4.4.1 if i have the right one on opensuse 12.3 | ||
+ | [11:14] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks wonders why glibc isn't showing up in Synaptic. | ||
+ | [11:14] Dahlia Trimble: I used them | ||
+ | [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: they exist, but they may still need to change in response to actual usage | ||
+ | [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, dahlia has taken the brave step | ||
+ | [11:15] Dahlia Trimble: materials are stored there | ||
+ | [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: however, I think any changes will probably relate to how data is stored retrieved rather than data formats | ||
+ | [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: What sort of properties are dynamic? | ||
+ | [11:15] Robert Adams: I was going to start using them to store extra physics properties (like user set center-of-mass) | ||
+ | [11:15] Marcus Llewellyn: If you apply materials to a mesh avatar, you can't leave your sim, unless you want to reapply the materials every time you return to it or another materials enabled simulator. ;) | ||
+ | [11:15] Dahlia Trimble: you can add a OSDMap to a SOP | ||
+ | [11:16] Teravus Ousley: haha, anything you don't want to write a database connector and migration for? :D | ||
+ | [11:16] Robert Adams: just wondered if you thought the design had settled down or whether they were about to change | ||
+ | [11:16] Dahlia Trimble: Marcus, latest version should fix that | ||
+ | [11:16] Marcus Llewellyn: Awesome, Dahlia. :) | ||
+ | [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I think data format change would only occur if actual use found some significant problem with how it's being done at the moment | ||
+ | [11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: Are OARs/IARs working with materials too? I saw a commit regarding that. When I tested it, I couldn't get it to work, though. | ||
+ | [11:17] Dahlia Trimble: only reason it's "experimental" now is that LL may change it, or if something is not working or changes in dynamic attributes | ||
+ | [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: I think you could probably go ahead and use it | ||
+ | [11:17] Dahlia Trimble: we need some rules about naming though | ||
+ | [11:17] Robert Adams: are the dynamic properties serialized to the DB and OAR/IAR files? | ||
+ | [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes | ||
+ | [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yes. Though if they reference assets then those currently need code in UUIDGatherer to scan and collect them | ||
+ | [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: which I want to make modularizable sometime soon | ||
+ | [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: question, soemone fund it and i see it to. why does "land show" only display 252,252,0 as result. also scipt parcel divide seems to go wrong | ||
+ | [11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: in what way are these different from prim properties? | ||
+ | [11:18] Robert Adams: excellent | ||
+ | [11:19] Dahlia Trimble: and maybe some rules enforcement, like in a script cant write anything that starts with 'OS:" | ||
+ | [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: best not to store large chunks of data in them though. Largue chunks should probably remain in assets | ||
+ | [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah, that might be an idea | ||
+ | [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: though I can also imagine an argument for allowing scripts to do that as a communicaton mechanism with modules | ||
+ | [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6608 | ||
+ | [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: then you get into the hairness about concurrency | ||
+ | [11:20] Dahlia Trimble: ya but modules could read anything | ||
+ | [11:20] Robert Adams: the JSONStore is the best inter-script comm system... it has changed events and locking and all that's needed for taht | ||
+ | [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: not a bug | ||
+ | [11:20] Teravus Ousley: I know.. we should have comprehensive permissions trees on every node *wink* | ||
+ | [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yeah, mic put in a hack to have the SOP dynattrs as the backing store for JSONStore | ||
+ | [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: ? ok, justin... still weird.. | ||
+ | [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: minimum land parcel square is 4 meters | ||
+ | [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: but I see your point, so maybe it's something to consider | ||
+ | [11:21] Dahlia Trimble: a scene-level DynAttrs would be kinda cool too :) *hint* | ||
+ | [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: someone else found it. only note it. | ||
+ | [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: melanie previous put in a key:value store for regions but that's structurally different | ||
+ | [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I think a dynattrs for scene presence could also be a good idea too | ||
+ | [11:22] Robert Adams: Dahlia, at which level? parcel, region, ?? | ||
+ | [11:22] Dahlia Trimble: oh whats it called? | ||
+ | [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: would allow npc stuff to be stored there, for instance, rather than in parallel data structures | ||
+ | [11:22] Dahlia Trimble: at top level of the scene | ||
+ | [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: something not tied to any object in the scene | ||
+ | [11:23] Robert Adams: 'scene' as in OS simulator level? | ||
+ | [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: yes | ||
+ | [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: or region level | ||
+ | [11:23] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley associates 'scene level' with Scene.cs in OpenSim.Region.Framework | ||
+ | [11:23] Robert Adams: you can do that with JSONStore.... it can be used just as a named store that scripts can reference | ||
+ | [11:24] Dahlia Trimble: I mean a persistant one | ||
+ | [11:25] Dahlia Trimble: anyway I didnt really need it, just occured to me while doing the materials stuff that it might be a nice feature | ||
+ | [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: look at GetExtraSetting(), StoreExtraSetting(), RemoveExtraSetting() on Scene | ||
+ | [11:26] Dahlia Trimble: ty | ||
+ | [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I am wary of dynamic attributes. It makes things easier than changing the database but I think we need to watch for any efficiency issues | ||
+ | [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: and currently the need to lock the entire structure on any data change is pretty awkward | ||
+ | [11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: could linq be used with all this? | ||
+ | [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know | ||
+ | [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe if one were to write the required glue | ||
+ | [11:28] Teravus Ousley: we don't really use much linq in opensim :) | ||
+ | [11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I'm not an expert on it, I have just come across it a few times | ||
+ | [11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: seems like a way to make handling data generic | ||
+ | [11:28] Dahlia Trimble: justin, what if the locks were in getters and setters? | ||
+ | [11:29] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley uses it for querying object data collections in work.. but hasn't used it in OpenSimulator. | ||
+ | [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: maybe for getting/setting an entire OSDMap, but that would still leave you vulnerable to concurrency issues of changing settings within the map | ||
+ | [11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: A while back we talked about upping the tools from 3.5 | ||
+ | [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: I will do that once the next Debian is released | ||
+ | [11:31] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Dahlia ran into an issue with default parameters that would have worked if we were on 4.0 | ||
+ | [11:31] Dahlia Trimble: lol debian releases are rare | ||
+ | [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, wikipedia is saying may 4th ot 5th 2013 :) | ||
+ | [11:31] Teravus Ousley: Maybe, if instead of a single lock on that collection.. there's multiple lock spaces | ||
+ | [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: yeah, I was thinking along those lines - wanted to see what it looked like under 'real' usage first | ||
+ | [11:32] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev 3ce1981: 2013-04-29 22:21:57 +0100 (Unix/Mono) | ||
+ | [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: another alternative is to have 'dynamic objects' instead of attributes | ||
+ | [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: which get serialized whenever the sop is seralized and deserialized when it's deserialized | ||
+ | [11:33] Teravus Ousley: Early optimization is bad :) yes. | ||
+ | [11:33] Dahlia Trimble: I saw those but didnt know what they were | ||
+ | [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: that way modules, could deal with first class objects and we concurrency could be simpler, I think | ||
+ | [11:33] Robert Adams: BulletSim will have one OSDMap with values that are updated by a region module based on script functions | ||
+ | [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: it's more tomwards the entity:component approach I think | ||
+ | [11:33] Teravus Ousley: If we really need to do something about it, we could always implement a 'first letter locking mechanism' hack that.. has a separate lock object for the first letter of the namespace | ||
+ | [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: would any object need serialization methods? | ||
+ | [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: I was thinking that modules could register for the ser/deser event and handle it however they like | ||
+ | [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: oh | ||
+ | [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: is that the way it works now? | ||
+ | [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: so they could choose how to use the data to reconstitute objects which they would add to a generic dictionary on sop | ||
+ | [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: no | ||
+ | [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: at the moment, on serializatio nwe simply use generic libomv code to serialized the OSDMap | ||
+ | [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: I meant on the dynamic objects | ||
+ | [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: haven't implemented it yet :) | ||
+ | [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: oh thought I saw it in code | ||
+ | [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: it's not nice to do since it involves some adjustment of our existing serialized code | ||
+ | [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: serialization code | ||
+ | [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: there was DynAttrs and DynObjects | ||
+ | [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, haven't completed DynObjects | ||
+ | [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: ah ok | ||
+ | [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: but DynAttrs would be continue to be valid | ||
+ | [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: they would remain the persistent store | ||
+ | [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: so when completed it would be backward compatible | ||
+ | [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: oh so currently DynObjects stores System.Object references? | ||
+ | [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes | ||
+ | [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: k | ||
+ | [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: I want to look at optimizatio nfor DynAttrs since having an extra DAMap for every SOP may not be trivial | ||
+ | [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: if you have 40000 SOPS for instance, that's an extra 40000 DynAttr objects | ||
+ | [11:39] Dahlia Trimble: probably would want an ICOmponent interface that defines a few methods like for serialization and message handling | ||
+ | [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: would be better if they could be null if not used, but that's a little awkward to do I think | ||
+ | [11:40] Dahlia Trimble: I dont think OSDMaps use much space if unused | ||
+ | [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I need to get a better sense of just how much memory is used by mono/.net oibjcts | ||
+ | [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: never really delved into that space | ||
+ | [11:41] Dahlia Trimble: but a null reference for a map might work | ||
+ | [11:41] Teravus Ousley: It's fun to keep a lot of texture byte[] references around. | ||
+ | [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: heh | ||
+ | [11:42] Dahlia Trimble: are byte[] references? | ||
+ | [11:42] Teravus Ousley: The array is a reference | ||
+ | [11:43] Dahlia Trimble: Ive seen them get borked when they fall out of a using() scope | ||
+ | [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, perhaps we should see if there are any other opensimulator questions for the remaining 20 mins | ||
+ | [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: anybody? | ||
+ | [11:43] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley wakes up people | ||
+ | [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: I was able to confirm that objects rezed from tarash | ||
+ | [11:44] logger sewell: Justin do have any idea when the 7.6 will be out ? | ||
+ | [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: err Trash* | ||
+ | [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: I'm hioping to start the process soon but there are a few issues I want to look at first | ||
+ | [11:44] Kayaker Magic: I submitted a Mantisa bout llGetTime() returning negative numbers and numbers in the past, but | ||
+ | [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: if you rez an item directly from your trash can, anyone who takes a copy the item goes back to trash can, this is impropper | ||
+ | [11:44] Kayaker Magic: I'm waiting to try a newer Mono to see if that fixes it | ||
+ | [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: like exactly why changing the thread pool makes certain issues with ghost avatars go away | ||
+ | [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: that bug is very old nebadon. | ||
+ | [11:44] logger sewell: ok thanks | ||
+ | [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: back to the rezzer's trashcan? | ||
+ | [11:45] Teravus Ousley: negative get time is pretty cool. That sounds like it may have something to do with Environment.Tickcount wraparound | ||
+ | [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: actually I think it's a mono bug :) | ||
+ | [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: think i have seen that trashcan bug between 0.74 and 0.7.5 for first time | ||
+ | [11:45] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, the negative time is always just about 3600 seconts in the past | ||
+ | [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: the same one that was causing diva to see the sun jump around at regular intervals | ||
+ | [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: which was fixed in 2.10.6 or later I think | ||
+ | [11:46] Teravus Ousley: oh, nifty.. and here I thought that was a joke that sdague was playing from before :) | ||
+ | [11:46] Robert Adams: it's not April 1st | ||
+ | [11:46] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0.0 | ||
+ | [11:46] Kayaker Magic: I have mono 2.10.6, supposed to be fixed in 2.10.8 | ||
+ | [11:46] Lani Global: Here is a curiosity... for most of this year, in my inventory, I often see items I created and gave away, but with other people's ownership. Perhaps that is related? | ||
+ | [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: no it seems to go to whoever takes its trash | ||
+ | [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: even if I send them a copy | ||
+ | [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: its not going to objects | ||
+ | [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: let me show you | ||
+ | [11:47] Teravus Ousley: Could be two things.. could be a stored folder.. or the 'delete object' routine is kicking in and sending it to trash | ||
+ | [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: try taking a copy of that red box | ||
+ | [11:47] Kayaker Magic: Is Mono 3.0 working with opensim now? | ||
+ | [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: could you name it something other than primitive? :0 | ||
+ | [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it went to "My Suitcase" | ||
+ | [11:48] Fearghus McMahon: my regions run on mono 3.6 or 7 now i think Kayaker | ||
+ | [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: there you go | ||
+ | [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: only thing i have seen iand i think its something todo with the --profile --home option in iar / oar that perms got lost when you load it on other place. not sure if thats a bug with HG ? | ||
+ | [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: that is not surpising Bluewall. your HG | ||
+ | [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: yes, I believe it works well, thuogh still not with the newer garbage collector | ||
+ | [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: everything is forced to suitcase | ||
+ | [11:48] Teravus Ousley: It ended up in lost and found | ||
+ | [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I wanted to see if it would fail | ||
+ | [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya it either goes to lost and found | ||
+ | [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: or trash | ||
+ | [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should never do either of those things | ||
+ | [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should go to objects | ||
+ | [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: same thing happens if I send this object to someone | ||
+ | [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: they cant find it | ||
+ | [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: I took a copy but it doesn't show up in my inventory | ||
+ | [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: it appears in lost & found nebadon | ||
+ | [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya | ||
+ | [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: something very wrong | ||
+ | [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should always go to Objects | ||
+ | [11:49] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ok, what if you put it in a folder named "Stuff" and the revieving person has a folder named "Stuff" will it go there? | ||
+ | [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: but i cant do anything with it. not delete not move | ||
+ | [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... in Singularity 1.8.0 it shows up in Lost and Found for just a second then disappears. | ||
+ | [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: I think something similar happens | ||
+ | [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: i use old astra | ||
+ | [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if I rez an object from a folder in my inventory | ||
+ | [11:50] Fearghus McMahon: kayaker, only issue i've had was teleporting out of my region would crash it sometimes...but that i have not seen yet with the latest osgrid release | ||
+ | [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: and then delete that folder | ||
+ | [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: Astra Viewer 1.6.5 (3) | ||
+ | [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: The red cube gets lost completely on a take. | ||
+ | [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya most of the time no one can find it | ||
+ | [11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: Does this also happen with a direct offer of inventory to another person? Is it only objects, or does it occur with other assets such as textures or clothing? | ||
+ | [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but it should be either in one of the 2 places | ||
+ | [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: i see it. but no control on it | ||
+ | [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I can't find it either. Inventory moves for a moment but then moves back | ||
+ | [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I have only seen this happen with items you can rez | ||
+ | [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: objects | ||
+ | [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I take it this is only stuff retrieved back from trash? | ||
+ | [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: It goes to L&F but then immediately disappears from that folder and a search doesn't turn it up anywhere in inventory. | ||
+ | [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: right | ||
+ | [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: what starts it is i rez it directly from trash to ground | ||
+ | [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: then basically from that point on its ruined | ||
+ | [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: ANdrew. maby my viewer is buggy i still see it. but i think its gone | ||
+ | [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: unless i move it to objects | ||
+ | [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: then rez it again | ||
+ | [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that fixes it | ||
+ | [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: does sound like some last rezzed from inventory folder issue | ||
+ | [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: I am almost certain its been this way for years | ||
+ | [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: just no ones really said anything about it | ||
+ | [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but lately its really getting on my nerves | ||
+ | [11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: what if the reciever has a folder named the same as the one you take it from? | ||
+ | [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I noticed that in Avination and said something about it there but it was supposed to be the "correct behaviour" | ||
+ | [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think that matters | ||
+ | [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: because its all UUID references | ||
+ | [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: none of our rountines rely on folder naming | ||
+ | [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: the uuids would never match | ||
+ | [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: to land back in trash. | ||
+ | [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: apart from some iar/oar commands | ||
+ | [11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe it is looking for "Trash" here, but then goes to "My Suitcase" | ||
+ | [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I think whats happening is the lastfolder uuid is not found | ||
+ | [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: so it sends it to lost and found | ||
+ | [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: which is wrong | ||
+ | [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, i think i mentoined that problems month ago already. or soemthing like that. only never seen it so bad as now | ||
+ | [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i am assuming its called lastfolder | ||
+ | [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i have no idea how we reference that | ||
+ | [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, probably that should get set back to UUID.Zero which I think would trigger it to go in the correct 'type' folder | ||
+ | [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: didnt dig that deep | ||
+ | [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. Objects for objects | ||
+ | [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... Perhaps it is looking for the trash folder based on the UUID of the owner who rezzed it and a folder by the same name may exist in someone elses inventory but they would have a different UUID | ||
+ | [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: right | ||
+ | [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: that sounds sane Justin | ||
+ | [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, though that wouldn't work for the original rezzer | ||
+ | [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: so possibly there needs to be code to ignore the last folder if the user is not the object 'owner' | ||
+ | [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: well nothing you ever take or receive should ever automatically go to lost and found or trash | ||
+ | [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: not ever | ||
+ | [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: it would be good if opensim looks what type of object ,texture, photo, objetc and put it there for the new owner | ||
+ | [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: only time that happens is if you decline | ||
+ | [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: it gets moved there | ||
+ | [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise objects should always go to Objects folder no matter what | ||
+ | [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: btw, did you get any further with setting avatar properties via llSetLinkParams() and similar? | ||
+ | [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: yes nebadon | ||
+ | [11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: not much, I have looked into it a couple of times | ||
+ | [11:57] Lani Global: I've seen many things I take or copy go to Lost and Found | ||
+ | [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I might get a chance myself soon, though it's queued behind a bunch of other things | ||
+ | [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: don't want to tread on any work you may already have done | ||
+ | [11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I see you have mode several things to support it | ||
+ | [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: mode? | ||
+ | [11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have only looked so far | ||
+ | [11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ohh, "made" | ||
+ | [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I did clean up a bunch of stuff when doing the get portion | ||
+ | [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. common routines to get the avatar correctly for a given link number | ||
+ | [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think you have some methods to get SEO | ||
+ | [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lists of them | ||
+ | [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: search engine optimization? | ||
+ | [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Scene Entity Obj | ||
+ | [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think | ||
+ | [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... I was thinking search engine optimization :-) | ||
+ | [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: oh, you mena sop :) | ||
+ | [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the base | ||
+ | [12:00] Teravus Ousley: right, the base type | ||
+ | [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, ISceneEntity and similar | ||
+ | [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes, that | ||
+ | [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: our horrific crappy interface hiearchy :) | ||
+ | [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: @.@ | ||
+ | [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go eat. Thanks for the meeting, folks | ||
+ | [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: well, that works, but what I didn't want to do is check everything coming through there to from a bottleneck | ||
+ | [12:01] Kayaker Magic: Loger, do you know what version of Mono is running on VH? | ||
+ | [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: thank you JCC | ||
+ | [12:01] Fearghus McMahon: bon appetit Justin | ||
+ | [12:01] Robert Adams: bye all | ||
+ | [12:01] Teravus Ousley: byese | ||
+ | [12:01] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves | ||
+ | [12:01] Fearghus McMahon: c ya robert | ||
+ | [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: see ya Robert, thanks | ||
+ | [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin | ||
+ | [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, if 076 is "coming soon", I might as well wait instead of dropping BS from master in to 075PF | ||
+ | [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya | ||
+ | [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I just also confirmed | ||
+ | [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: if you rez an object from a folder | ||
+ | [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: then delete that folder | ||
+ | [12:02] Lani Global: thank you Justin! | ||
+ | [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: and take a copy of that item it goes to trash or lost and found also | ||
+ | [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: major borkage | ||
+ | [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: no wonder this is happening so much | ||
+ | [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that makes sense | ||
+ | [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I mean, it shouldn't do that | ||
+ | [12:03] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Dahlia: the latest group offerings have group chat working, provided your all on the same sim. That was tested in a HG ebvironment | ||
+ | [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but at least it's a repro | ||
+ | </pre> | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | [[Category:Office Hour Logs]] |
Revision as of 21:43, 24 October 2015
[11:07] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: i been having probs between .7.6 regions [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: in some weeks i hope i can test that more to [11:08] Antoni.Gaudi @art.no-ip.org:9000: craft and francogrid......have not good hypergrid implementation [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:08] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: buit my bandwidth is currently maxing at 50 KB/s [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: i guess justin is the walking hair ? [11:08] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: we have upgrades about ten regions with 0.7.6 and tp seems to be better [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: i see a few invisible avatars [11:08] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: upgraded* [11:08] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: i had to revert to a .7.3 version for stable jumps [11:08] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: You are doing well with that Arielle [11:08] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev ba6a6b2: 2013-05-21 18:18:16 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: when you say 0.7.6 which date? [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: brr 0.7.43 never go ue that again. so buggy [11:09] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Current [11:09] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: commit 55c9bc [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: when you sya tp is better, in what way? [11:09] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: 0.7.6 Dev e65d1e4 [11:09] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: faster and less tps fail [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: 0.7.6 should be in general better [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: the revision fred quotes has something that will heopefully fix the issue with users not being able to tp back into some regions sometimes [11:10] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: anyone test on lower bandwidths? [11:10] Sarah Kline: hi [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: hi sarah [11:11] Sarah Kline: ) [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: uhhh, i can now set the bandwidth on the switch how i want [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: think lowest would be 64Kbyte [11:11] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: Singularity for example had to fix their code because login with less then 60 KB/s was not possible [11:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: whereas other viewers it was [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: cant believe there people that try to run sl on lower then that :O [11:12] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: I am from a group of 9 small grids and standalones, and we have no known issues, except IM [11:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: not everyone has a choice Richard [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: in what way IM problems fred ? [11:13] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: IM when a user leaves their home sim [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: Arielle, running sl with 64KB/s means you need 1 day to load a sim. [11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: no [11:13] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: works one way, but not the other [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: aha.. i know that problem i think. its some weeks ago. but i turned soem HG things off with saved messages and groups [11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: yes, i have seen that too Fred [11:14] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: bit of a killer for collaberation [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway ,any opensim topics this week? [11:15] Kayaker Magic: Can I plug the moving a seated avatar problem? [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: you certainly can [11:16] Kayaker Magic: any progress? [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: what is the problem? [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: could you remind me exactly what we're talking about? [11:16] Kayaker Magic: when an avatar sits on an object, [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: moving wva lsl params commands as a member of a linkset? [11:17] Richardus Raymaker: hmm forgot to check.. is the terrain edit working correct in 0.7.6 ? i sw the strength slider did not work right with soem options. but forgot wich viewer. at least with asyta 1.6 strange things hapepnd. [11:17] Kayaker Magic: llSetLinkPrimPramFast is supposed to be able to change their position. [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: right. No progress yet but it is in my mind [11:17] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: question [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: and hopefully I should get the chance now to loko at a few things [11:18] Kayaker Magic: It is big on some of the grids, I see people complaining in the forums that they don't have a good posing system for lack of this. [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: pls go ahead [11:18] Kayaker Magic: There is a popular product in SL called AVsitter that depends on this [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: magic sitter ? easy sit ? [11:19] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: Id like to list the opening of my new area..it's educational.but not sure how to get ppl there [11:19] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: any suggestions? [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: what kind of audience are you looking to reach? [11:19] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: tell maria korolov [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: heh yes [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: hypergridbusiness.com [11:20] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: students....teachers...general public..not fussy at the moment [11:20] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: I run the archaeological island on the VIBE grid [11:21] Kayaker Magic: Oh, I was involved in an opensim based announcement system, see http://thegridcache.com/news.php and try announcing your site there [11:21] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: register at http://thehypergates.com too [11:21] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: wew are going to begin with educational sims too, just doing some test specially for child protection [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: yes, you could try hypergridbusiness, forums such as osgrid.org and g+ communities like osgrid.org and opensim virtual [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: oh yes, various other places as well [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, no one central place :) [11:21] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: great [11:21] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: let me copy and paste that [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: there's also an opensim-edu mailing list on the opensimulator.org site which has educators on, though often quite quiet [11:22] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: ahhhh [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't really recommend the opensim-users or dev mailing lists since they're really for opensim user and dev questions [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: though maybe it would be nice to have an announcement list [11:23] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: we're listed on some directory.I think it is on the open sim one [11:23] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: all good suggestions...ty ty [11:23] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: the G= communities are big for announcements atm [11:24] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: G+ [11:24] Antoni.Gaudi @art.no-ip.org:9000: 1.786.546.765.123 regions for few avatars...... [11:24] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: the main goal is to have it used for online class's [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey nods [11:25] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: but I'd like feedback first [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: you might find greatest reliability in a non-hypergrid configuration [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: unless having people able to visit is essential for your needs [11:25] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: ????? [11:25] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: heh [11:26] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: we are configuring the authorization service so that the accesses to teh school region are regulated [11:26] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: not sure what u mean Justin [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: you're visting from some hypergrid enabled opensim installation,. right? [11:27] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: yes [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: but perhaps I am making the wrong assumption and your teaching sim is not hg enabled? [11:27] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: I believe it is [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, so hypergrid is a very interesting and useful thing, but it does add a layer of complexity on top of opensim [11:27] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: it is open to visiting from the general public? [11:28] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: excuse.I'm just an educator /builder.not sure of the tech end [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: so running without hypergrid would potentially improve reliability but would not make it so easily accessible [11:28] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: yes it's open to the public as well [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: ok, someone else is administering your simulators? [11:28] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: yes [11:28] Antoni.Gaudi @art.no-ip.org:9000: something like an HYPERGRID PLAZA is needed(for all activities) [11:29] Antoni.Gaudi @art.no-ip.org:9000: and INWORLD [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: I guess it's the difference between having an intranet webserver and a public webserver [11:29] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: a small group of educators formed an educational grid...VIBE..and I run the archaeological region [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: a public webserver allows anybody to see things but also means much more unpredictable traffic/load. etc. [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: but may be essential for what you hope to do [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: of course, opensim is nowhere near as reliable as a webserver :) [11:30] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: in italy there is an educational grid called Edmondo nut teachers are working in Craft too because in an hypergridded grid they can find ideas and help (collaborators) [11:30] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: but* [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey nods [11:30] Richardus Raymaker: justin, sofar i know for HG yiou need apublic webserver. [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: the webserver thing is an analogy - not an exact match [11:31] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: you do? [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: I was talking figuratively [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: nova: anyway, nice to hear about vibe, and edmondo too, licu [11:32] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: smile [11:32] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: ty ty [11:32] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: again ty for the help [11:32] Nova.Saunders @nova.bio-se.info:9000: bye [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: bye nova [11:33] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: bye nova [11:34] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: so whats the plan for getting 200 avatars into on conference? [11:34] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: on=one [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: praying :() [11:35] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: with intel system? [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: haha [11:35] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: lol [11:35] Dahlia Trimble is online. [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: or rather, do more load tests and identify bottlenecks like login and why they are occuring [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: which to me means adding more stats [11:35] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: how many came at the last test? [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: technically we had 121 clients, I believe [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: 124 i think was the peak [11:35] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: oh not bad [11:35] Antoni.Gaudi @art.no-ip.org:9000: no [11:36] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: any slowdows? [11:36] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: no lag during synchronisation when an avi arrives? [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: there was almost no lag [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: but around 120 avatars it got hard to log in [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: and a few avatars got knocked out [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: had trouble getting back [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: but the sims where empty with objects ? [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: I suspect some of that can be fixed [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: there was some objects there Richardus [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: also no inventory that need to load if you HG [11:36] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: is there a way to divert incoming to the least full region? [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/load_test_regions_001.png [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/load_test_regions_002.png [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: Arielle not at the moment no [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: should be possible in principle by setting max avatars and then naming the other keynotes as backup regions? [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: i was hoping that once the default region was full it would send people to the next fallback region [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: but that did not work [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: ahhh [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: thats what i did [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: and it did not work [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: then that's... a bug [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: people got region is full message [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: and bounced back to their departure sim [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. some missing code in opensim [11:38] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: Hi Dahlia [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: technically im not sure its a "bug" [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: i think thats how it works [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: inside of a normal grid teleport [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: if you try to teleport to a full region you get sent back to region you came from [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah - but weren't those direct logins? [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: which is exactly what happened [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: no there are no direct logins for these tests [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: its all HG visitors [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: ah right [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: only direct logins were controlled by me [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: perhaps at the extreme some new code could be written to do that [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: but then the problem may not have been related to that - need more data [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: likely what we would need [11:39] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: which is the easiest on the regions? [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: it would need to be tailored to HG teleports specifically [11:39] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: HG or direct logins? [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: you would not want this to happen in a local grid teleport [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: a teleport is probably less harsh [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: potentially it is anyway [11:40] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: but HG avi likely has inventory loaded before jumping [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: a login has the potential for an empty cache [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: shouldn't it apply to all teleports? [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: a teleport that is less likely [11:40] Dahlia Trimble: I doubt theres much difference [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: no Justin it should not [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: in a local grid tp [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: you would not want to send an avatar to an unknown region if they hit a full region [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: you send them back to region they left from [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: why wouldn't you in this particular case? [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: where one of the keynote regions is 'full'? [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: in this case we would [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: but under normal use cases you would not [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: right [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: so it would just be code for this particular case, though I'm sure potentially useful for any large gathering [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: during the actual event [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: it wont work this way though [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: might be compilcated to do though with the current architecture of advertising regions [11:41] Richardus Raymaker: so, some option in the ini IfRegionFullUseFallBack = [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: during the actual event people will be limited to the region they are assigned for the keynote [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: ah ok [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: aha [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: so its really only relevant to the load tests per say [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: not that its not useful [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: btw, this might be crazy, but did you consider doing the keynotes as one big mega? ;) [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: I thought about it, but i dont think we could get 200 avatars into 1 simulator [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: though that would rather bypass the point of doing 4 corner regions [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: not without something like DSG [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: right - too early for dsg [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: we are pushing the limits at 50 [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: practical limits anyway [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon is playing with dynamite :O [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: the problem is with that many avatars people get disconnected a lot [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: mono can only handle so many connections [11:44] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: if we had variable regions you could make 50 meter square regions :) [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: even .net would have issues without changing the code considerably [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: that would start to point towards overload of the udp connections [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: right [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: wel,l in this case the connectivity is maintained via udp [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: which isn't subject to those limits as it's connectionless, I believe [11:45] Dahlia Trimble: udp doesnt have connections [11:45] Cuteulala Artis is offline. [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: but udp have opther problems [11:45] Dahlia Trimble: udp is very low overhead, if theres problems its probably in the application since it controls everything [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: it could be that the load means we no longer process incoming viewer packets in time and so the server ends up disconnecting them after the timeout [11:45] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: is udp working in opensim now? [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: if it wasn't we wouldn't be having this convo :) [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: hehe [11:46] Dahlia Trimble: Adelle, you wouldnt be here if it wasnt working [11:46] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: well the udp inventory and textures were no tworking recently [11:46] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: udp fallback [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: that's different [11:46] Cuteulala Artis is online. [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: does udp fallback work now btw? [11:47] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: i havent tested since Melanie put a patch in [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I'd be interest in confirming that fix [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: interested [11:47] Cuteulala Artis is offline. [11:48] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: it was a combination of viewer and opensim [11:48] Unknown User: /do we have a stress test later this evening? [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: not today [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: next week [11:48] Unknown User: k [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i will announce it early next time [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i am still setting up the grid [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i have about 8 more regions to bring online [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah, I hope to add more of the kind of stats I want to see and be able to monitor personally next time [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: sure that would be great [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: it will be after this meeting, right? [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:50] Cuteulala Artis is online. [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i am hopefully going to have munin tracking things as well [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. there are more monitor systems. seems to be a new one to [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i had it running on this server previously so shouldnt be too hard to get going again [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: you remind me that i need to install it to. forgot it on the new one [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i'll probably have iptraf running too [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, really need to start outputting data consistently from opensim so it can be plugged into monitoring systems [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: at the moment that kind of thing is a mess [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder if everybody is waiting on the xbox announcement today? [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. i saw 1 thing today. someone from HG where takeing objects. but.. [11:54] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: is there a place on the wiki on what and how to use these monitoring debug testing systems? [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Monitoring [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: not really Arielle [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ah what does that cover? [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: though yes, that just talks about various stuff but not how to plugin external systems [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya i thought she meant like Munin [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: it would be nice if it did one day [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect she might [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya there used to be a way to monitor some of that stuff [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: but it wasnt that great [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: i saw when the do that a hug spam of messages that start with "[USER AGENT CONNECTOR]: new connector to http:" [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: that's still there but the things I've been adding to the latest and greatest stats system are not automatically exposed that way [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: really, all this stuff needs to be tied together so that adding a stat also makes it externally available if that is turned on [11:56] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: well i was just meaning in general to help in testing [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya it would be nice if someone could make up a fancy json ajax page [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: huh [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: i know bluewall has some of that kind of stuff [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: he had a cool web page that was fed from json stats and it had like tachometer like guagers [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: guages* [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: it was neat [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: richaruds: that should just be on startup? [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: no. that where with 2 HG visitors on my 0.7.5 regins getting objects [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: it shows more. it came from germangriud [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: ok no I see, it's created in a lot of places [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: its just spamming the console a bit much [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: the trick is being able to reduce that spam whilst still keeping the info available [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: is this something that you noticed recently? [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: the message itself has been there since sept 2010 but it's possible some new code now triggers it much more frequently [12:00] Sarah Kline: bye all [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: are you running in debug mode? [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: for logging? [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: i just saw it the first time today.. its printing around 1 message every 3 seconds. but its with 0.7.5 release [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: bye sarah [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: honestly any region where production levels are expected should not be running with debug logging [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: we run these plazas in INFO [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: and if you start experiencing issues then you switch back to DEBUG until you can find the problem [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: the log say debug. but i cant remember i ever turned it on. so how can you check the log level ? [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: if you are going to hvae a really large event [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: you should turn logging to OFF [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: edit your OpenSim.exe.config [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: there are 2 spots [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: not even ERROR? [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: it depends i guess [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: if your not looking for bugs and need the highest level of performance [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: shut it off [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: if things start acting funny turn it on [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: during the OSG5B parties we turn logging off [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: it can make a big difference [12:03] Dahlia Trimble: ERROR shouldnt be much [12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, logging can be a not insignifcant load [12:03] Richardus Raymaker: let me check [12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: if ERROR is genrating spam then we need to do something about that [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: right [12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: I know the map stuff can spew a lot right now [12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: on places like osgrid [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: if your having trouble by all means turn on ERROR or DEBUG [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: but don't leave it there unless your specifically hunting for something [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: we leave it on INFO and that greatly reduces the console spam [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: while still being semi-useful [12:05] Richardus Raymaker: if i look quick at the xml file its turned on i think. but thats the default from 0.7.5 source [12:05] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: is there a show queues function for http? [12:05] Dahlia Trimble: bye all :) [12:05] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: tc Dahlia [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: see you Dahlia :) [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahlia [12:05] Zia Frimon: Caio Dah [12:06] Richardus Raymaker: thaks justin. i save this and look into it when i have ore time. it dont happen much [12:06] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia [12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm going to go do some work as well. See you all around [12:06] Justin Clark-Casey waves [12:06] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: bye justin [12:07] Zia Frimon: waves [12:07] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: tc Justin [12:07] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
[10:59] Teravus Ousley: greets [10:59] Now playing: Farbrausch - fr08 .the .product [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: hello [11:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi everone [11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, The stair climbing patch you did was for git master. I'd like to have that in 075PF but one of the BulletSim files patched in master doesn't exist in 075PF. [11:00] logger sewell: hey all [11:00] Robert Adams: which file is that, Andrew? [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, BSAvatarActorMove.cs [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi bluewall [11:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi [11:02] Robert Adams: Andrew, that probably means all the actor additions are missing... cherry picking might not be a solution [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, no, a cherry pick failed complete. One file that doesn't exist and rejects on all the other changes. [11:03] Robert Adams: a more radical solution would be to take the whole BulletSim tree and drop it in your system (Region/Physics/BulletSPlugin) [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Since the one file is missing I can't (at the moment) do a manual patch. [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I thought about doing that. [11:03] Robert Adams: BulletSim is fairly independent [11:03] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks nods [11:04] Robert Adams: remember to get the DLLs and SOs also... the C++ code changed also [11:04] Teravus Ousley: yay for physics separation [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Teravus, indeeed [11:04] Teravus Ousley: (there are some sizable challenges as a result of that separation.. but.. tradeoffs :)) [11:04] logger sewell: Hi Kayaker [11:04] Fearghus McMahon: hi everybody [11:04] Kayaker Magic: Hi Logger, everyone! [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: Uhmm iis bullet working on linux ? [11:05] Robert Adams: Richardus, yes but there have been some library dependency problems on some Linux distributions [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, It works as well as BulletSim works. I did do a brief test un der Linux. [11:05] Fearghus McMahon: i got one region running with bulletsim on centos [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: ok. at some point i can check it. right now fighting with desktops :O [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, there was some thing missing that caused an issue with BulletSim use and Linux/mono [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: Wright Plaza is running Bulletsim [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: well it would be opensuse here [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: hi neb [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Linux Mint for me. [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: all of my regions are on OpenSuse [11:06] OtakuMegane Desu: It seems to mostly work when I'vtried it recently. Had to compile it myself though, CentOS 5 doesn't seem to like the default ones [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i think there may be issues on 32 bit still Robert? [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: or was that fixed? [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: always compile opensim on linux [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I could tell you. I'm only running 32-bit Linux [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: probably some of the native system libraries and the bullet dll? [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: 32bit. who is useing that ^^ [11:07] OtakuMegane Desu: 32-bit is soo last decade. :P [11:07] Marcus LlewellynMarcus Llewellyn uses 32-bit Linux. :) [11:07] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Bulletsim good on Fedora 32 and 64 bit [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: well It was broken on 64 bit, then Robert fixed that, and then after that reports came in that 32 bit was broken [11:07] Teravus Ousley: I have a virtual PC on my Mac that uses 32 bit :P [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: are you guys running master git? [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: or latest OSgrid release? [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I am and will continue to do so until such time as you can run a 64-bit machine without need for any 32-bit libraries. [11:07] Fearghus McMahon: i've never compiled opensim onlinux yet...just using the osgrid download so far [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: this break was very recent [11:08] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: git master here [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: git master [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ok [11:08] Robert Adams: the glibc libraries have been getting updated recently but the newer version aren't in all distributions yet [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: it probably got fixed [11:08] OtakuMegane Desu: I usually run master [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: most i run still 0.7.5 with one 0.7.6dev sandback. but running behind. still setting up things [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, which version of glibc? [11:08] Robert Adams: so I have to be careful about libraries needed [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: some distros are slow to change [11:09] Robert Adams: glibc 2.14 has an updated memcpy.... most distributions don't have it yet [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: some distros like OpenSuse 11.4 are no longer being updated [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Um... glibc or just glib? [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: people could possibly build the bullet libs from source if they fail [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: its not so easy for me to upgrade either [11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: Debian Stable is often problematic in that fashion. [11:09] Robert Adams: there is also updates to glibcxx (to 3.9, I think) [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Robert, will it compile on the older ones? [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: well soem hoster that stil serve r11.4 is running behind. start to work with 12,3 myself [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have glibc installed on my machine [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: how can i check wich clib is installed ? [11:11] Robert Adams: Bluewall, it does compile on the older ones... my problem is that my build environment keeps linking to the latest-and-greatest then the binaries don't work on the older distributions [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: uhh glib :O [11:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Robert, cool. I'm thinking about users's compilting it on their systems in case it fails [11:11] Marcus Llewellyn: Rich: Your distro's package manager might tell you. [11:11] Fearghus McMahon: heya justin [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think most people dont' understand the way pinvoke works [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: hi feargus, folks. sorry I'm late [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:12] Robert Adams: Bluewall, that works and I know of some who have done that [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Justin [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: cool, then it's good that there is a workaround [11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Dahlia [11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: <--- Materials Girl [11:13] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:13] Dahlia Trimble: lol [11:14] Teravus Ousley: materials girl.. yes :) [11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: will those work on mesh avatars? [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Only glibc files I have are part of cross-compilers I have installed. [11:14] Dahlia Trimble: probably [11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: woot [11:14] Robert Adams: Justin, what is the state of SOP dynamic properties... are they completed and usable? [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: glibc v2.17-4.4.1 if i have the right one on opensuse 12.3 [11:14] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks wonders why glibc isn't showing up in Synaptic. [11:14] Dahlia Trimble: I used them [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: they exist, but they may still need to change in response to actual usage [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, dahlia has taken the brave step [11:15] Dahlia Trimble: materials are stored there [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: however, I think any changes will probably relate to how data is stored retrieved rather than data formats [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: What sort of properties are dynamic? [11:15] Robert Adams: I was going to start using them to store extra physics properties (like user set center-of-mass) [11:15] Marcus Llewellyn: If you apply materials to a mesh avatar, you can't leave your sim, unless you want to reapply the materials every time you return to it or another materials enabled simulator. ;) [11:15] Dahlia Trimble: you can add a OSDMap to a SOP [11:16] Teravus Ousley: haha, anything you don't want to write a database connector and migration for? :D [11:16] Robert Adams: just wondered if you thought the design had settled down or whether they were about to change [11:16] Dahlia Trimble: Marcus, latest version should fix that [11:16] Marcus Llewellyn: Awesome, Dahlia. :) [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I think data format change would only occur if actual use found some significant problem with how it's being done at the moment [11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: Are OARs/IARs working with materials too? I saw a commit regarding that. When I tested it, I couldn't get it to work, though. [11:17] Dahlia Trimble: only reason it's "experimental" now is that LL may change it, or if something is not working or changes in dynamic attributes [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: I think you could probably go ahead and use it [11:17] Dahlia Trimble: we need some rules about naming though [11:17] Robert Adams: are the dynamic properties serialized to the DB and OAR/IAR files? [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yes. Though if they reference assets then those currently need code in UUIDGatherer to scan and collect them [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: which I want to make modularizable sometime soon [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: question, soemone fund it and i see it to. why does "land show" only display 252,252,0 as result. also scipt parcel divide seems to go wrong [11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: in what way are these different from prim properties? [11:18] Robert Adams: excellent [11:19] Dahlia Trimble: and maybe some rules enforcement, like in a script cant write anything that starts with 'OS:" [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: best not to store large chunks of data in them though. Largue chunks should probably remain in assets [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah, that might be an idea [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: though I can also imagine an argument for allowing scripts to do that as a communicaton mechanism with modules [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6608 [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: then you get into the hairness about concurrency [11:20] Dahlia Trimble: ya but modules could read anything [11:20] Robert Adams: the JSONStore is the best inter-script comm system... it has changed events and locking and all that's needed for taht [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: not a bug [11:20] Teravus Ousley: I know.. we should have comprehensive permissions trees on every node *wink* [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yeah, mic put in a hack to have the SOP dynattrs as the backing store for JSONStore [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: ? ok, justin... still weird.. [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: minimum land parcel square is 4 meters [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: but I see your point, so maybe it's something to consider [11:21] Dahlia Trimble: a scene-level DynAttrs would be kinda cool too :) *hint* [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: someone else found it. only note it. [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: melanie previous put in a key:value store for regions but that's structurally different [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I think a dynattrs for scene presence could also be a good idea too [11:22] Robert Adams: Dahlia, at which level? parcel, region, ?? [11:22] Dahlia Trimble: oh whats it called? [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: would allow npc stuff to be stored there, for instance, rather than in parallel data structures [11:22] Dahlia Trimble: at top level of the scene [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: something not tied to any object in the scene [11:23] Robert Adams: 'scene' as in OS simulator level? [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: yes [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: or region level [11:23] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley associates 'scene level' with Scene.cs in OpenSim.Region.Framework [11:23] Robert Adams: you can do that with JSONStore.... it can be used just as a named store that scripts can reference [11:24] Dahlia Trimble: I mean a persistant one [11:25] Dahlia Trimble: anyway I didnt really need it, just occured to me while doing the materials stuff that it might be a nice feature [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: look at GetExtraSetting(), StoreExtraSetting(), RemoveExtraSetting() on Scene [11:26] Dahlia Trimble: ty [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I am wary of dynamic attributes. It makes things easier than changing the database but I think we need to watch for any efficiency issues [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: and currently the need to lock the entire structure on any data change is pretty awkward [11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: could linq be used with all this? [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe if one were to write the required glue [11:28] Teravus Ousley: we don't really use much linq in opensim :) [11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I'm not an expert on it, I have just come across it a few times [11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: seems like a way to make handling data generic [11:28] Dahlia Trimble: justin, what if the locks were in getters and setters? [11:29] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley uses it for querying object data collections in work.. but hasn't used it in OpenSimulator. [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: maybe for getting/setting an entire OSDMap, but that would still leave you vulnerable to concurrency issues of changing settings within the map [11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: A while back we talked about upping the tools from 3.5 [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: I will do that once the next Debian is released [11:31] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Dahlia ran into an issue with default parameters that would have worked if we were on 4.0 [11:31] Dahlia Trimble: lol debian releases are rare [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, wikipedia is saying may 4th ot 5th 2013 :) [11:31] Teravus Ousley: Maybe, if instead of a single lock on that collection.. there's multiple lock spaces [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: yeah, I was thinking along those lines - wanted to see what it looked like under 'real' usage first [11:32] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev 3ce1981: 2013-04-29 22:21:57 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: another alternative is to have 'dynamic objects' instead of attributes [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: which get serialized whenever the sop is seralized and deserialized when it's deserialized [11:33] Teravus Ousley: Early optimization is bad :) yes. [11:33] Dahlia Trimble: I saw those but didnt know what they were [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: that way modules, could deal with first class objects and we concurrency could be simpler, I think [11:33] Robert Adams: BulletSim will have one OSDMap with values that are updated by a region module based on script functions [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: it's more tomwards the entity:component approach I think [11:33] Teravus Ousley: If we really need to do something about it, we could always implement a 'first letter locking mechanism' hack that.. has a separate lock object for the first letter of the namespace [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: would any object need serialization methods? [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: I was thinking that modules could register for the ser/deser event and handle it however they like [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: oh [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: is that the way it works now? [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: so they could choose how to use the data to reconstitute objects which they would add to a generic dictionary on sop [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: no [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: at the moment, on serializatio nwe simply use generic libomv code to serialized the OSDMap [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: I meant on the dynamic objects [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: haven't implemented it yet :) [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: oh thought I saw it in code [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: it's not nice to do since it involves some adjustment of our existing serialized code [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: serialization code [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: there was DynAttrs and DynObjects [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, haven't completed DynObjects [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: ah ok [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: but DynAttrs would be continue to be valid [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: they would remain the persistent store [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: so when completed it would be backward compatible [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: oh so currently DynObjects stores System.Object references? [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: k [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: I want to look at optimizatio nfor DynAttrs since having an extra DAMap for every SOP may not be trivial [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: if you have 40000 SOPS for instance, that's an extra 40000 DynAttr objects [11:39] Dahlia Trimble: probably would want an ICOmponent interface that defines a few methods like for serialization and message handling [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: would be better if they could be null if not used, but that's a little awkward to do I think [11:40] Dahlia Trimble: I dont think OSDMaps use much space if unused [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I need to get a better sense of just how much memory is used by mono/.net oibjcts [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: never really delved into that space [11:41] Dahlia Trimble: but a null reference for a map might work [11:41] Teravus Ousley: It's fun to keep a lot of texture byte[] references around. [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: heh [11:42] Dahlia Trimble: are byte[] references? [11:42] Teravus Ousley: The array is a reference [11:43] Dahlia Trimble: Ive seen them get borked when they fall out of a using() scope [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, perhaps we should see if there are any other opensimulator questions for the remaining 20 mins [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: anybody? [11:43] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley wakes up people [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: I was able to confirm that objects rezed from tarash [11:44] logger sewell: Justin do have any idea when the 7.6 will be out ? [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: err Trash* [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: I'm hioping to start the process soon but there are a few issues I want to look at first [11:44] Kayaker Magic: I submitted a Mantisa bout llGetTime() returning negative numbers and numbers in the past, but [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: if you rez an item directly from your trash can, anyone who takes a copy the item goes back to trash can, this is impropper [11:44] Kayaker Magic: I'm waiting to try a newer Mono to see if that fixes it [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: like exactly why changing the thread pool makes certain issues with ghost avatars go away [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: that bug is very old nebadon. [11:44] logger sewell: ok thanks [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: back to the rezzer's trashcan? [11:45] Teravus Ousley: negative get time is pretty cool. That sounds like it may have something to do with Environment.Tickcount wraparound [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: actually I think it's a mono bug :) [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: think i have seen that trashcan bug between 0.74 and 0.7.5 for first time [11:45] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, the negative time is always just about 3600 seconts in the past [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: the same one that was causing diva to see the sun jump around at regular intervals [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: which was fixed in 2.10.6 or later I think [11:46] Teravus Ousley: oh, nifty.. and here I thought that was a joke that sdague was playing from before :) [11:46] Robert Adams: it's not April 1st [11:46] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0.0 [11:46] Kayaker Magic: I have mono 2.10.6, supposed to be fixed in 2.10.8 [11:46] Lani Global: Here is a curiosity... for most of this year, in my inventory, I often see items I created and gave away, but with other people's ownership. Perhaps that is related? [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: no it seems to go to whoever takes its trash [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: even if I send them a copy [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: its not going to objects [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: let me show you [11:47] Teravus Ousley: Could be two things.. could be a stored folder.. or the 'delete object' routine is kicking in and sending it to trash [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: try taking a copy of that red box [11:47] Kayaker Magic: Is Mono 3.0 working with opensim now? [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: could you name it something other than primitive? :0 [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it went to "My Suitcase" [11:48] Fearghus McMahon: my regions run on mono 3.6 or 7 now i think Kayaker [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: there you go [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: only thing i have seen iand i think its something todo with the --profile --home option in iar / oar that perms got lost when you load it on other place. not sure if thats a bug with HG ? [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: that is not surpising Bluewall. your HG [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: yes, I believe it works well, thuogh still not with the newer garbage collector [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: everything is forced to suitcase [11:48] Teravus Ousley: It ended up in lost and found [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I wanted to see if it would fail [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya it either goes to lost and found [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: or trash [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should never do either of those things [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should go to objects [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: same thing happens if I send this object to someone [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: they cant find it [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: I took a copy but it doesn't show up in my inventory [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: it appears in lost & found nebadon [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: something very wrong [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should always go to Objects [11:49] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ok, what if you put it in a folder named "Stuff" and the revieving person has a folder named "Stuff" will it go there? [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: but i cant do anything with it. not delete not move [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... in Singularity 1.8.0 it shows up in Lost and Found for just a second then disappears. [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: I think something similar happens [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: i use old astra [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if I rez an object from a folder in my inventory [11:50] Fearghus McMahon: kayaker, only issue i've had was teleporting out of my region would crash it sometimes...but that i have not seen yet with the latest osgrid release [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: and then delete that folder [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: Astra Viewer 1.6.5 (3) [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: The red cube gets lost completely on a take. [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya most of the time no one can find it [11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: Does this also happen with a direct offer of inventory to another person? Is it only objects, or does it occur with other assets such as textures or clothing? [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but it should be either in one of the 2 places [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: i see it. but no control on it [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I can't find it either. Inventory moves for a moment but then moves back [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I have only seen this happen with items you can rez [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: objects [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I take it this is only stuff retrieved back from trash? [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: It goes to L&F but then immediately disappears from that folder and a search doesn't turn it up anywhere in inventory. [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: right [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: what starts it is i rez it directly from trash to ground [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: then basically from that point on its ruined [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: ANdrew. maby my viewer is buggy i still see it. but i think its gone [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: unless i move it to objects [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: then rez it again [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that fixes it [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: does sound like some last rezzed from inventory folder issue [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: I am almost certain its been this way for years [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: just no ones really said anything about it [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but lately its really getting on my nerves [11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: what if the reciever has a folder named the same as the one you take it from? [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I noticed that in Avination and said something about it there but it was supposed to be the "correct behaviour" [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think that matters [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: because its all UUID references [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: none of our rountines rely on folder naming [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: the uuids would never match [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: to land back in trash. [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: apart from some iar/oar commands [11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe it is looking for "Trash" here, but then goes to "My Suitcase" [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I think whats happening is the lastfolder uuid is not found [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: so it sends it to lost and found [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: which is wrong [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, i think i mentoined that problems month ago already. or soemthing like that. only never seen it so bad as now [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i am assuming its called lastfolder [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i have no idea how we reference that [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, probably that should get set back to UUID.Zero which I think would trigger it to go in the correct 'type' folder [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: didnt dig that deep [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. Objects for objects [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... Perhaps it is looking for the trash folder based on the UUID of the owner who rezzed it and a folder by the same name may exist in someone elses inventory but they would have a different UUID [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: right [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: that sounds sane Justin [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, though that wouldn't work for the original rezzer [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: so possibly there needs to be code to ignore the last folder if the user is not the object 'owner' [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: well nothing you ever take or receive should ever automatically go to lost and found or trash [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: not ever [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: it would be good if opensim looks what type of object ,texture, photo, objetc and put it there for the new owner [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: only time that happens is if you decline [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: it gets moved there [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise objects should always go to Objects folder no matter what [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: btw, did you get any further with setting avatar properties via llSetLinkParams() and similar? [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: yes nebadon [11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: not much, I have looked into it a couple of times [11:57] Lani Global: I've seen many things I take or copy go to Lost and Found [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I might get a chance myself soon, though it's queued behind a bunch of other things [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: don't want to tread on any work you may already have done [11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I see you have mode several things to support it [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: mode? [11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have only looked so far [11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ohh, "made" [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I did clean up a bunch of stuff when doing the get portion [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. common routines to get the avatar correctly for a given link number [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think you have some methods to get SEO [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lists of them [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: search engine optimization? [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Scene Entity Obj [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... I was thinking search engine optimization :-) [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: oh, you mena sop :) [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the base [12:00] Teravus Ousley: right, the base type [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, ISceneEntity and similar [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes, that [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: our horrific crappy interface hiearchy :) [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: @.@ [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go eat. Thanks for the meeting, folks [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: well, that works, but what I didn't want to do is check everything coming through there to from a bottleneck [12:01] Kayaker Magic: Loger, do you know what version of Mono is running on VH? [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: thank you JCC [12:01] Fearghus McMahon: bon appetit Justin [12:01] Robert Adams: bye all [12:01] Teravus Ousley: byese [12:01] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves [12:01] Fearghus McMahon: c ya robert [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: see ya Robert, thanks [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, if 076 is "coming soon", I might as well wait instead of dropping BS from master in to 075PF [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I just also confirmed [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: if you rez an object from a folder [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: then delete that folder [12:02] Lani Global: thank you Justin! [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: and take a copy of that item it goes to trash or lost and found also [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: major borkage [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: no wonder this is happening so much [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that makes sense [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I mean, it shouldn't do that [12:03] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Dahlia: the latest group offerings have group chat working, provided your all on the same sim. That was tested in a HG ebvironment [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but at least it's a repro