[11:02 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:02 AM] Lyr.Lobo @vharmonyartshub.com:8002: Hello Andrew!
[11:02 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: You will need to start without me. I got stuck dealing with a work issue. Got that sorted. Now I'm trying to grab a quick bite to eat or else I will be having a very late lunch.
[11:02 AM] Lyr.Lobo @vharmonyartshub.com:8002: Great to see you, Ubit and Tampa
[11:03 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Lyr.
[11:04 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: There used to be a menu entry in FS to mark an avatar as away but i can't find it. oh, well. bbiab.
[11:04 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Comm -> Online Status
[11:05 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Hi all *smiles and waves
[11:06 AM] Lyr.Lobo @vharmonyartshub.com:8002: Great to see you, Cuga
[11:06 AM] Lyr.Lobo @vharmonyartshub.com:8002: Heya Jagga
[11:06 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Hey Lyr
[11:06 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Gavin! :D
[11:06 AM] Lyr.Lobo @vharmonyartshub.com:8002: Great to see you, Gavin
[11:07 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hello guys
[11:07 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Ubit your hat reminds me of Weird Al's song Aluminum Foil
[11:07 AM] Lyr.Lobo @vharmonyartshub.com:8002: hehe
[11:07 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[11:07 AM] Lyr.Lobo @vharmonyartshub.com:8002: love the TinFoil man from The Tick
[11:07 AM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:07 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I loved the Tick
[11:08 AM] Lyr.Lobo @vharmonyartshub.com:8002: yep *Grins*
[11:08 AM] Lyr.Lobo @vharmonyartshub.com:8002: How's your feet?
[11:08 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'm "The rake"
[11:08 AM] Lyr.Lobo @vharmonyartshub.com:8002: /me winks
[11:08 AM] Lyr.Lobo @vharmonyartshub.com:8002: two series, same creator
[11:08 AM] Lyr.Lobo @vharmonyartshub.com:8002: both great
[11:09 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: cult classics
[11:09 AM] Lyr.Lobo @vharmonyartshub.com:8002: /me grins
[11:11 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: People say there's a lot of UFO activity around mexico City
[11:11 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: So both hats together makes sense
[11:12 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Somewhere there are aliens that tell each other horror stories about sentient apes that roam a dirt ball
[11:13 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and constantly F everything up for themselves
[11:13 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Dino
[11:13 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: incoming
[11:13 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: holds out a cracker
[11:14 AM] Ubit Umarov: well alliens did not add any new bugs to opensim during last week. neither did humans or any other species
[11:14 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Soooooon
[11:15 AM] Ubit Umarov: wel with exception of a few changes around dbs code
[11:16 AM] Ubit Umarov: fixing some typos.. cosmetics
[11:16 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no suntan applied?
[11:17 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It'll melt off
[11:17 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[11:18 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back.
[11:18 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: wb
[11:21 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Solving some of those reported things is going to take a bit, because some of it requires architecture changes further up the food chain
[11:22 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: such as?
[11:22 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Plus testing is just time consuming with the different connectors n all
[11:22 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The user account one for example, big change to functions, retiring some, making new ones
[11:23 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok
[11:23 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is it possible to outline what you want, or do you want me to have Claude generate a solution that can be reviewed?
[11:24 AM] Ubit Umarov: oops i didnt had that chat with claude
[11:24 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: has the offer expired?
[11:24 AM] Ubit Umarov: dunno.. didnt look :(
[11:25 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The changes in the pipeline so far are meant to address the most critical issues and the various typos. Nothing final yet. If you have it re-evaluate them no need to write code though
[11:25 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you have the link still
[11:25 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok Vincent
[11:26 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I rather write fixes based on issue descriptions than eval llm code, it's just easier to keep the overview and the connectors need some deeper architecture changes down the road anyways
[11:26 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Twice in one meeting
[11:26 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Some functions I really don't like the look of
[11:26 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://claude.ai/referral/p4WkSwiKnQ?s=claude_design
[11:27 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Burnt my hand earlier so not gonna write much code this week if I can help it
[11:27 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ouch. will it be ok?
[11:27 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The postgres stuff I hope to test at some point to make sure the changes there actually work in all versions. They been changing syntax like sqlite lately
[11:28 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Pain is an old friend, I'm fine
[11:28 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok
[11:29 AM] Lyr.Lobo @vharmonyartshub.com:8002: Oh no, sorry to hear of your burn, Vincent
[11:30 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: While I'm in that code anyways might as well fix everything up proper in case some modules use functions that have issues so as anything with old code turns into a bigger task than anticipated
[11:30 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I had fixed some of it in the past, but never really looked at the "working" parts
[11:31 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I will let it evaluate the changes you gave me, and based on that maybe start to develop fixes to outstanding issues one by one for your review
[11:32 AM] Ubit Umarov: well i did fix some of the simple typos on those reports
[11:33 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It will take that into account when looking at it again
[11:33 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I suspect it'll complain about a few things in there still and some fixes are really more bandaids, takes a bit more work to resolve in a way that'd pass scrutiny. Should be less to go through making it a bit easier to keep overview
[11:35 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Buys Vincent a coffee
[11:35 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and/or a beer
[11:36 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Well Gavin too
[11:36 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thx
[11:37 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I have a couple a of little macOS announcements, but not really important compared to the cosmetics you are working on
[11:37 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: please
[11:38 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: once or twice a year, I run a regression test for checking Opensim compatability across macOS versions
[11:38 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: using the latest from trunk, latest Dotnet 8, etc
[11:39 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: OS continues to run on all macOS that support Dotnet/64 bit
[11:39 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 10.15 to the latest
[11:39 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sound perfect
[11:39 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: now
[11:39 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Apple is dropping Intel support in their developer product XCode in macOS 27
[11:40 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah and Rosetta 2 next year
[11:40 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: No Roetta
[11:40 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: zero Intel support
[11:40 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I plan to Not upgrade on my current machine
[11:40 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-(
[11:40 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: stay ni 26.x, for other reasons too
[11:41 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: So I will be able to continue to build universal binaries
[11:41 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: At some point, though , we have to ask how far back on Macs we need to support
[11:41 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Intel Macs are 7+ years old now
[11:41 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: well, 6
[11:41 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: So thats all my mac news
[11:42 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Lots of very expensive paperweights soon huh
[11:42 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Oh they still run macos....
[11:42 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: then end of the line for the Intel Macs I am afraid
[11:42 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: They still work but old OS's
[11:43 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Like old PCs and mono
[11:43 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: They can still use an old build of pensimulator
[11:43 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Not a disaster if we cut the rope at some point
[11:43 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I mean we tested some code for compatibility on a 14 year old MacBook Pro, so it is not that all that base is going away, but pretty much the entire base on Apple Silicon are likely to upgrade to a version that cannot run Opensim or the viewers
[11:44 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: With how memory pricing is using mono these days... great thing about dotnet is the lower memory footprint
[11:44 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: The apple silicon user base is going to be fine
[11:44 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Its working fin ethere
[11:45 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: only concern for the oldold macs
[11:45 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am lookin at the feasibility of making the viewer a moder macOS version dumping a lot of LL code
[11:45 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: modern even
[11:45 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I think they provide the silicon code now from the LL seed
[11:45 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I thought thats how FS got it
[11:46 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah, but the renderer will not work
[11:46 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Oh you use Intel only renderer?
[11:46 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no rosetta 2, no OpenGL support (except some half assed thing running a handful of games)
[11:47 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Right no GL
[11:47 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Our hopes for common code across platforms shattered
[11:47 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so the rest of the code can run as much as it want, but nobody can see it
[11:48 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: When it comes to SL isn't that an improvement though :D
[11:48 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: haha
[11:48 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: LOL
[11:48 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ciris for the furries
[11:48 AM] Ubit Umarov: seems apple also increased machines prices bc of ram...
[11:48 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Watch for $4k laptops on 2027
[11:48 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: in*
[11:49 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Their runored touchscreen laptop will be $1k more for the screen
[11:49 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I think there already are laptops costing $4k or more.
[11:49 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: unless the AI bubble burst and there will be firesale of ram and ssd from bankrupt data centers
[11:50 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: raises his glass at the idea....
[11:50 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:50 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: GPUs too I guess
[11:50 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: They are getting sued so maybe that'll go somewhere. Seems they learned nothing from the last price fixing scandal. History repeating itself much faster than normal
[11:51 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Well the GPUs are built into the same chip on Silicon
[11:51 AM] Ubit Umarov: sadly alot more things will be in trouble if the bubble burst
[11:51 AM] Ubit Umarov: a lot of $ there from all areas.. even pensions
[11:51 AM] Ubit Umarov: so we are the ones paying it also
[11:52 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Just work till you drop, no more worries about pensions, it's that simple /s
[11:52 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a good portion of our sovereign wealth fund is invested in AI :-(
[11:52 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: findong new creative uses of FS's emojis
[11:53 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 👰
[11:53 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Database: *chuckles* I'm in danger
[11:54 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The ideal pensioner have always been a man working all life till reaching pension age, and then have a heart attack 4 weeks later
[11:55 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Wouldn't it be less paperwork to die on the job, then the paramedic could at least finish your shift /s
[11:55 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ouch
[11:59 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Well I'm feeling lucky then lol
[12:00 PM] Lyr.Lobo @vharmonyartshub.com:8002: /me grins
[12:00 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Vincent, Gavin, thanks for the hard work on the project. i need to head out
[12:01 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Take care, Cuga.
[12:01 PM] Ubit Umarov: have fun
[12:01 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Guess people are quiet, not seeing people typing :)
[12:01 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: *smiles and waves
[12:01 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am going to leave too for now, and we'll see next week if I have moved further
[12:02 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Cheers Cuga
[12:02 PM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:02 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Any other topics for today before we wrap things up?
[12:03 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: quick question
[12:03 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Go ahead, Gavin
[12:03 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: viewerstats that generates stats for LL that just burns cpu cycles in the viewer. will opensim ever sonsume those stats
[12:03 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: consume*
[12:04 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: quick question he says lol
[12:04 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: answer could be no
[12:04 PM] Ubit Umarov: guess thats more usefull for viewer devs
[12:04 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, there are quick questions but not always quick answers.
[12:04 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Not sure if it does, we may have it handled, but maybe not processing much of it
[12:04 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly Ubit
[12:05 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am inclined to rip the code out of the viewer as I don't plan to develop a setup to consume the data
[12:06 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I'll have a look at what's in there, maybe I have a better answer to that next week, if not, remind me :)
[12:06 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok
[12:06 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have a good week everyone
[12:06 PM] Ubit Umarov: have fun
[12:09 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: If there is nothing more for today I will bring this gathering to a close.
[12:09 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
