[11:04 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:04 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Nice to be back at our usual meeting location.
[11:06 AM] Ubit Umarov: we all missed Dino
[11:06 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:06 AM] Ubit Umarov: and the lifeguard that can't swim
[11:08 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Just as well that no one seems to go swimming.
[11:08 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Some commits since last week, mostly cosmetic and code quality
[11:08 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: New fs beta is out
[11:08 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Apparently LL changed the default font to Inter, which is not monospace and rather tall, causing some interface things to be a mess now
[11:09 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I swear they are keeping the glue industry afloat with how much they sniff and eat that
[11:09 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: One dumb idea after another lately
[11:09 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Wait it's always been like that, nevermind
[11:10 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: :D
[11:12 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: maybe my body will show up. hehe. hello everyone
[11:12 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Fiona
[11:12 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: hi Andrew
[11:12 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Fiona, I see you ok at my end.
[11:13 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: ok ty
[11:13 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: i don't need to see myself so it's fine :)
[11:14 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:15 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: What else has been going on this past week? Anything new viewer side?
[11:15 AM] Ubit Umarov: well about last week code changes
[11:15 AM] Ubit Umarov: fixed some silly bugs on non critical paths
[11:15 AM] Ubit Umarov: and did a few more cosmetics and things
[11:17 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: that's great Ubit
[11:17 AM] Ubit Umarov: ( things like abotu use of tryget versus contains. in dictionaies etc, still all over code
[11:18 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Was there anything else you wanted to say about the changes?
[11:19 AM] Ubit Umarov: just that.. ty
[11:19 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It's kinda strange how intelli flags that stuff yet the compiler isn't smart enough to optimize it away
[11:19 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Thanks, Ubit.
[11:19 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, You have a couple of questions for us. Go ahead.
[11:20 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: gridcommon.ini.example line 8 would be nice to have a warning to comment out line 9 if you're using anything else
[11:20 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: I got nailedon it
[11:21 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The storage interface? Well that's the default config
[11:21 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Hence why it's marked as .example
[11:22 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: AttachmentsModule.cs line 384 calls m_scene.IncomingAttechments().
[11:22 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Line 5 says to choose the database.
[11:23 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: Is that a typo? or avoiding other code?
[11:23 AM] Ubit Umarov: sqlite may be loaded by somethings
[11:24 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, good catch. That looks like a typo to me.
[11:24 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: also in Scene.cs line 2976
[11:24 AM] Ubit Umarov: at same time most code uses the other dbs
[11:25 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: OK,I'll submitit
[11:25 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: that's all I got. lots more stuff on my wiki. osimdev.org
[11:25 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I was just about to say the function name has the same typo in Scene.cs
[11:26 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you, Jagga. Good to have another pair of eyes looking at the code.
[11:26 AM] Ubit Umarov: what function name?
[11:26 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: IncomingAttechment
[11:28 AM] Ubit Umarov: what is hte problem with that?
[11:28 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I have some other issues like that which I haven't pushed yet. Been sitting on them for too long.
[11:29 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Attechment vs Attachment
[11:29 AM] Ubit Umarov: pff compilers dont knw english
[11:29 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:30 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: hehe
[11:30 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: i have a question
[11:30 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Need to send it back to school.
[11:30 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Go ahead, Fiona.
[11:31 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: .net8 is dead in november is there a plan to move up .net support
[11:31 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: A plan? That's asking a lot. ;)
[11:31 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: smiles
[11:32 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: well i'll take a look at buildling with 10 or something on mine. i follow head on my grid with some changes but there haven't been any collisions in code yet hehe
[11:33 AM] Ubit Umarov: no .net 8 is not dead in nov
[11:33 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: that's what googles says anyway
[11:33 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: i think
[11:33 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: The longer we wait to look for an alternative, the better chance what we pick will be future-proof
[11:33 AM] Ubit Umarov: it will just not get more bugs from ms.. a blessing even
[11:33 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Fiona, Is that in the AI result that pops up first in Google search results?
[11:33 AM] Ubit Umarov: :p
[11:34 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: .net lifecycle has been 3 years for a while now, doesn't mean you have to update outside of security related things and in certain cases they have patched older versions still, because a ton of stuff never upgrades
[11:34 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: i don't know. i did just check at dotnet.microsoft.com
[11:35 AM] Ubit Umarov: err only some versions.. net9 is 2 yrs
[11:35 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: nov 10 2026 is end of support
[11:35 AM] Ubit Umarov: guess even numbers ate lts
[11:35 AM] Ubit Umarov: are
[11:35 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: that's for 8 and 9 i guess
[11:35 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Well yeah gotta have those vista versions
[11:35 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:35 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: i guess they didn't do LTS on 9
[11:35 AM] Ubit Umarov: yes 9 ends at same time, bc it had 2 yrs lifetime
[11:36 AM] Ubit Umarov: as i said typically even numbers are lts
[11:37 AM] Ubit Umarov: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/microsoft-net-and-net-core
[11:37 AM] Ubit Umarov: there on 10 thei did not flag as lts, but it is 3 yrs
[11:37 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: well knowing how MS handles issues it's not a show stopper to keep using 8 i suppose just falls in the bad idea category maybe
[11:38 AM] Ubit Umarov: but ppl should start to pay less attention to that crap
[11:38 AM] Ubit Umarov: in fact force longer times
[11:38 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: We kept using Mono for a while before moving to Dotnet
[11:38 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: A while hehe
[11:38 AM] Ubit Umarov: some still use mone
[11:39 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: true
[11:39 AM] Ubit Umarov: and the best versiosn where dotnet 6, possible 8
[11:39 AM] Ubit Umarov: rest is... microslop mostly
[11:40 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: i haven't used mono for ages but i recall something was off with socket handling and callbacks
[11:40 AM] Ubit Umarov: making c# more like python and java at same time, etc
[11:40 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: All microslop has been doing is fixing small fry and removing things they can't be arsed to fix, so comparing 8 to 10 I struggle to see the benefit
[11:40 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: i agree vincent
[11:40 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Syntax sugar doesn't do anything for performance either and some of it is a readability nightmare
[11:41 AM] Ubit Umarov: 6 was a real goon jumpo for us
[11:41 AM] Ubit Umarov: and good
[11:41 AM] Ubit Umarov: the ones bf it were better with mono
[11:41 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: i suppose it could possibly affect new users and maybe people who host on their home computers if they get some message about net8 is not available and might be pulled from the ms repos
[11:41 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: that i don't know
[11:42 AM] Ubit Umarov: you can get older versions
[11:42 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: probably right about that
[11:42 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: I found it
[11:42 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Most of the things they have removed others have come along to replace with fixed versions that are mostly drop-in replacements making you wonder why microslop can't be arsed to fix things when it is clearly possible
[11:42 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Re-inventing the wheel
[11:43 AM] Ubit Umarov: even .net framework ( 4,9 and mono )
[11:43 AM] Ubit Umarov: https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/download/dotnet
[11:43 AM] Ubit Umarov: ( expand outof support )
[11:44 AM] Ubit Umarov: and
[11:44 AM] Ubit Umarov: https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/download/dotnet-framework
[11:44 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: oh yes that's helpful
[11:44 AM] Ubit Umarov: fun even a 3.5 is stil supported
[11:44 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: i was just curious. a new user may get discouraged maybe but it's fine i suppose
[11:45 AM] Ubit Umarov: until 2029
[11:45 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: That is crazy nuts
[11:45 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: hehe
[11:45 AM] Ubit Umarov: wel windows depends on .net framework
[11:45 AM] Ubit Umarov: not dotnet
[11:45 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: They just added another year to win10 updates cause all their new shit is broken. They know that, just don't to admit it
[11:46 AM] Ubit Umarov: rest of ms basicly did ignore dotnet, it seems
[11:46 AM] Ubit Umarov: specially with all the crap they did on core
[11:46 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Pretty much, hence why libgdiplus is broken still
[11:47 AM] Ubit Umarov: well ive no rush on 10
[11:47 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: on linux don't use the snap dotnet
[11:47 AM] Ubit Umarov: that means more dead things
[11:48 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: don't use the snap anything
[11:48 AM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: heh
[11:48 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: eek i hate snaps lol
[11:48 AM] Ubit Umarov: and more forced code changes with no gain at all, possible loss
[11:49 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: mysql comes on snap now, installs with the "modern" authentication that breaks OS
[11:49 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: isn't that the one anyone can post on the repo and they basically count on user feedback to report security issues and malware?
[11:49 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: maybe i'm tihinking of flatpacks
[11:49 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: equally as evil hehe
[11:50 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: aur, ppa, flatpack, snap, nuget, npm, the list is long
[11:50 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: yes true
[11:50 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I use PPAs on occasion.
[11:50 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: In some cases you have to
[11:50 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: ffmpeg, php
[11:51 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't (yet) for those two items.
[11:51 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: the other thing is minor - is how do people authenticate http requests in lsl. trusting the headers isn't safe and anything in the code can be read and imitated. so i did make a function GetNonce since the server knows how makes the script call. but i am not sure that's the best way, maybe another way is better
[11:52 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: There are cryptographic functions to encode and decode based on keys both sides can use
[11:53 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: yes true. but storing secrets isn't possible i think
[11:53 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Hardcoded
[11:53 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: have to assume anyone can god it
[11:54 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: You want to openly distribute something that connects to a server... er yeah wouldn't do that
[11:56 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: i made a getenvironment function so a secret can be fetched from your environment variables which can go in your startup unit file or whatever then you can control who can execute that command by owner in config but it's kinda flimsy i think and you're stuck with the same keys pretty much
[11:57 AM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: i suppose it's best just not to do http requests for anything that shouldn't be public
[11:58 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: The receiving script on the HTTP server can check the requester's IP address and limit to ones coming from the local network or a specific IP address
[11:59 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Monitoring, access control, license keys etc.
[11:59 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so you can bullet-proof it fome the other end
[11:59 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: from*
[12:00 PM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: maybe but my region servers are connected over wireguard mesh and ip things can get weird .
[12:00 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Be more interesting to know who is attempting to mess with it
[12:02 PM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: i haven't noticed any specific attacks except maybe over a year ago possibly but people do stuff just for funsies especially like high schoolers in the USA they try to get into stuff without profit it seems
[12:02 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: hackers everywhere try to do that
[12:02 PM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: hehe
[12:03 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Their payoff is being able to post that they broke in somewhere
[12:03 PM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: yes
[12:03 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: script kiddies gonna do that regardless, more fun to mess with them than to try and lock them out
[12:03 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Database driven system there are hardly any immutable things to use for that
[12:06 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: We are just past the hour mark. Any other last discussion topics for today?
[12:07 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Fiona, I saw you typing. Do you have something you want to say?
[12:08 PM] Fiona.Sweet @hg.zetaworlds.com: no it's ok i was just going to add about immutable stuff issues but it's not really relevant
[12:08 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: np.
[12:09 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: If there is nothing further for today that will bring this meeting to a close. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
