[11:07 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: smiles and waves
[11:07 AM] Ubit Umarov: well markets are pretty brokne things
[11:09 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Andrew still lost at rl?
[11:09 AM] Ubit Umarov: no idea
[11:09 AM] Ubit Umarov: last week was only for that day
[11:10 AM] Ubit Umarov: there he is
[11:10 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Yay !!! ~o.0~
[11:10 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: lol
[11:10 AM] Ubit Umarov: wait wait.. he wil find his sit
[11:11 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: That was a close call.
[11:11 AM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:12 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Last week I was at an electronics industry trade show. Today I can't stay for the meeting. I have to get some software ready that will be installed on some systems being shipped later today.
[11:13 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I don't think you will miss much, except dino feeding :)
[11:13 AM] Ubit Umarov: miss the pleasure of our presence!
[11:13 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: As long as the dino isn't feeding on me. :)
[11:14 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Had his eye on Jagga
[11:14 AM] Ubit Umarov: but yeah on last week code... just some more cosmetics
[11:15 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Threw more code at Ubit, some of it struck a nerve to make commits hehe
[11:15 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Have a good meeting. I hope things will be back to normal next week.
[11:15 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Have fun Andrew
[11:15 AM] Ubit Umarov: yeha have fun
[11:16 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I wish it was going to be fun but it won't. :P
[11:16 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: See you next week.
[11:16 AM] Ubit Umarov: mb testing the thing will have some fireworks...
[11:17 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I have been playing around with Ubuntu 26 and Kernel 7 that were released last Thursday, and testing Opensim on it
[11:17 AM] Ubit Umarov: bits of electronics going up in flames with big bangs..
[11:17 AM] Ubit Umarov: always fun
[11:18 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Given the stupidity that seems to have infested Canonical you are brave for doing that
[11:18 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: libgdiplus is yet to be fixed
[11:18 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes :)
[11:18 AM] Ubit Umarov: hmm my ceiling next door still has bits of a ne555 stuck on it
[11:18 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Ubuntu 26 has a bleeding edge version of libgdiplus
[11:19 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: in their repo
[11:19 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 6.1
[11:19 AM] Ubit Umarov: once i forgot to lower the supply voltage for it
[11:19 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Unless something changed all the newer versions are broken, from 6.0.5 all the way up as the problem is more with pango
[11:20 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Humm, well its working for me
[11:20 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Dotnet however was only available for version 10. V8 not even in their repo
[11:20 AM] Ubit Umarov: think prob is only with some fonts
[11:20 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: yes
[11:20 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: But I could download the tarball of V8 and install manually, and it worked
[11:21 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: iirc v10 adds a new language version that allows some more exotic null checking, which is so far the only new thing I like about it
[11:22 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Overall seems less problematic than 24.x, which is good for their initial release. But the bar was pretty low
[11:23 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I have lost a lot of trust in them for some of the decisions made to the point I have been looking at debian a lot
[11:23 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Just seem to be a bit more active when it comes to fixing stuff
[11:24 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: agree
[11:24 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Their kernel is way behind but that's maybe no so important
[11:24 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Canonical is pushing snaps, ai crap, bad rust rewrites and their commercial fear mongering
[11:24 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I hate snaps!!!!!!!!
[11:24 AM] Ubit Umarov: did i mention i hate computers?
[11:24 AM] Ubit Umarov: Hi Lyr, welcome
[11:25 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hello everyone *smiles*
[11:25 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The only thing in 7.x kernel that I am interested in is the irq handling, cause that is kinda broken in the older ones
[11:25 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: MySQL was installed via a snap and it caused me more extra stupid work and fixes that any other part of the install
[11:25 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: wtf
[11:25 AM] Ubit Umarov: thats the version where they changed the bin tools to rust?
[11:25 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: sudo-rs exists as well now
[11:26 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: gnu utils I think it was
[11:26 AM] Ubit Umarov: seems they moved all to rust
[11:26 AM] Ubit Umarov: and now have security issues lol
[11:26 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: was about to say
[11:26 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: They let you choose between MySQL 8.0.x and 8.4.x but both options are installed via snap
[11:26 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: But rust is memory safe! First line of code: unsafe
[11:27 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Same with mariadb?
[11:27 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: If you try to use apt-get then you run into double-install. Snap doesn;t check if it conflicts with apt. STUPID
[11:28 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: But I DID learn the magic SQL command to fix the authentication method an existing MySQL account
[11:28 AM] Ubit Umarov: mb AI already took over Canonical
[11:29 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: *facepaws*
[11:29 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I doubt it, cause even if they can't code, their reasoning skills are usually better than whatever brainfart compelled Canonical to do the things it has done recently
[11:30 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I didn't check mariadb, but that option is there
[11:31 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: First thing I do on a new ubuntu machine apt purge snapd
[11:31 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: and needrestart, god what an annoying package that is
[11:32 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and then rely on Canonkical for timely updates
[11:32 AM] Ubit Umarov: bahh just gop back win win xp
[11:32 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: And nuking the unattended upgrades, cause that just a problem waiting to happen when asleep
[11:32 AM] Ubit Umarov: back to ...
[11:32 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: back to macOS lol
[11:32 AM] Ubit Umarov: opensim will even use less memory
[11:32 AM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:33 AM] Ubit Umarov: well will not compile.. but details
[11:33 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Well it might in future anyway if we ever get around reviewing those groups module changes. Should think all the array lookups might possibly be measurable performance increase
[11:34 AM] Ubit Umarov: what array lookups?
[11:34 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The containskey trygetvalue stuff
[11:34 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: There is a lot of that in there
[11:34 AM] Ubit Umarov: those are not arrya lookups..
[11:34 AM] Ubit Umarov: are a bit worse than that
[11:36 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: details, but effectively cut the access to them in half, which might actually increase performance on some of that since it has to process so much crap as is
[11:36 AM] Ubit Umarov: guess back then there was no trygetvalue .. not sure
[11:36 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I'm surprised that isn't compiled away either
[11:37 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If intellisense can detect it
[11:37 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Well not in all cases
[11:37 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: A few it didn't mark for change, not sure why
[11:38 AM] Ubit Umarov: ( well trygetvalue was added in 2005 )
[11:39 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Some of this code is 4800 days old so maybe was not on the mind of whoever wrote it
[11:40 AM] Ubit Umarov: worse is use of hashtables
[11:40 AM] Ubit Umarov: that where already obsolete
[11:40 AM] Ubit Umarov: in most uses the value is a string, but tables only store obejcts
[11:41 AM] Ubit Umarov: so need to wrap unwrap all the time
[11:41 AM] Ubit Umarov: dont have trygetvalue also ..
[11:41 AM] Ubit Umarov: uff obsolete things.. but all over now.. and a pain to change
[11:42 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: In a few places that I have seen them it ended up not being so easy to remove them though. They do have some flexibility, which some things rely on as well
[11:42 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Think search has them as well
[11:42 AM] Ubit Umarov: think a dic of objects does all they do
[11:43 AM] Ubit Umarov: if you do need to store different kind of items
[11:43 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Yeah, though that still kinda feels like the easy way out
[11:44 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Like there has to be a better way, but that's a lot of pain
[11:45 AM] Ubit Umarov: hashtables are just older things
[11:47 AM] Ubit Umarov: but everywhere
[11:47 AM] Ubit Umarov: ang gain fo changing maybe not that great
[11:50 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Places where they are used a lot and frequent, but that's rare
[11:52 AM] Ubit Umarov: well and when the value needs to be a object.. gain is even less
[11:53 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me smiles
[11:53 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Sticking something in a object only to cast it out on the other end, it feels lipstick on a pig
[11:53 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I know it's not that bad, but it doesn't feel like a fix
[11:54 AM] Ubit Umarov: like i said you need that when storing things of dif type
[11:54 AM] Ubit Umarov: like lsl lists
[11:55 AM] Ubit Umarov: ( or lua arrays etc )
[11:55 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Yeah
[11:56 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: (spits when he hears that word)
[11:57 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: lua, the special needs child of python
[11:58 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: oh, it is sort of python like
[11:58 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: no semicolons needed :)
[11:59 AM] Ubit Umarov: need to count spaces... duhhh
[11:59 AM] Ubit Umarov: (python)
[11:59 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: python too
[11:59 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Dino is hungry today
[11:59 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me chuckles
[12:00 PM] Ubit Umarov: at least a coment is not defined by a char on firt position in a line
[12:00 PM] Ubit Umarov: ( old fortran )
[12:00 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me grins
[12:01 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i like the Dino
[12:01 PM] Ubit Umarov: well ll could had done worse... could had pick ada or list :p
[12:01 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: second time Dino came thru meeting :)
[12:01 PM] Ubit Umarov: .. or lisp
[12:01 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: snorts
[12:01 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: he says Ada because of me
[12:02 PM] Ubit Umarov: ( hihihi )
[12:02 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Python is not bad... and lua is very popular with customized World of Warcraft addons
[12:02 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: probably gets them closer to compatibility with other virtual worlds and games
[12:02 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ohhhhhh now that explains why they chose it
[12:02 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: broader marketplace
[12:02 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me grins and nods
[12:03 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: over 15,000 WoW addons for viewing the game interface in a customized fashion
[12:03 PM] Ubit Umarov: they di dchose it bc rob?? made a version for similar use
[12:03 PM] Ubit Umarov: and it is opensource
[12:03 PM] Ubit Umarov: a subset of real lua
[12:03 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: roblox, yes
[12:03 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: very popular there too
[12:03 PM] Ubit Umarov: so they had most the work done
[12:04 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: But you can't just sell your own stuff when you want in WoW, "so whats the point trying to make it compatible?"
[12:04 PM] Ubit Umarov: no point lol
[12:04 PM] Ubit Umarov: they had no way to improve or even mantain mono
[12:05 PM] Ubit Umarov: so they had to change to something else
[12:05 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: lsl is not going away (grumbles)
[12:06 PM] Ubit Umarov: well abs no plans to add lllua to opensim
[12:06 PM] Ubit Umarov: lsl is better than that thing
[12:07 PM] Ubit Umarov: even with its odd things, and mb a harder learn path
[12:07 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Maybe they want to attract ex-devs from WoW back to LL and thought that lua would be "oh, I can do that"
[12:07 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me grins
[12:07 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thats my best guess, and it's a stretch
[12:07 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I am not sure that'll end well
[12:08 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Apart from some ass backwards things, lsl is a pretty approachable language
[12:09 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Well the addons use Lua, but Blizzard uses BNET for the game logic and script quests, then C++ and Tcl (Tool command Language)
[12:09 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Lua came out in 2008 and World of Warcraft released in 2004
[12:09 PM] Ubit Umarov: wel we can add tcl
[12:10 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me chuckles
[12:10 PM] Ubit Umarov: :p
[12:10 PM] Ubit Umarov: my irc bots did use tcl
[12:10 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: they also used LISP
[12:10 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: but now use bNET primarily for game dev and scripting
[12:10 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Lithp
[12:10 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hehe
[12:10 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: caught that one
[12:10 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: haskell or cobol would be fun, put lsl into perspective xD
[12:10 PM] Ubit Umarov: ohh forgetting abotu RL
[12:11 PM] Ubit Umarov: any other opensim issue for today?
[12:11 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I'm good... grading ..end of term
[12:11 PM] Ubit Umarov: bad terms
[12:11 PM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:12 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Going to flush snap out of my Ubuntu now at Vincen'ts recommendation
[12:12 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I have only one thing, if you compile FS with openjpeg, have a frantic roam around the world map floater and see if you get a crash
[12:12 PM] Ubit Umarov: ok have a nice week
[12:12 PM] Ubit Umarov: see you next week, if not before
[12:12 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: TC all (smiles and waves)
[12:13 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Apparently if you move around enough in that thing the viewer gets confused and sends bad data to openjpeg and it explodes
[12:13 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Trying to exorcise the viewer lol
[12:14 PM] Ubit Umarov: well as i said you need a older version of openjpeg
[12:14 PM] Ubit Umarov: or the one Henry uses in cool vl
[12:14 PM] Ubit Umarov: normal one will not work
[12:14 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Yeah that's on the todolist for things to try :)
[12:14 PM] Ubit Umarov: does not support the way ll handles textures
[12:14 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Just trying to figure out if it happens to not just me
[12:15 PM] Ubit Umarov: ok cya :)
