[11:01 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:01 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I find it crazy that a country don't have the same age limits across the board in the country. Makes it unmanageable
[11:02 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: This is a strange conversation to catch in the middle.
[11:02 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we talked about Discord age verification
[11:02 AM] Ubit Umarov: and long ago since parents where happy having less than 10 years old using and killing hookers on GTA
[11:02 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: to be rolled out from March
[11:02 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Cuga
[11:03 AM] Ubit Umarov: kids very quiet on their rooms giving no work
[11:03 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Cuga
[11:03 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Hi everyone :)
[11:03 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Lyr.
[11:03 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me grins
[11:03 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hello
[11:03 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Lyr
[11:03 AM] Ubit Umarov: guess in uik now you need to pay for a companie to certify you are adult
[11:04 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Great to see you
[11:04 AM] Ubit Umarov: bahh
[11:04 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: as if a company would know, eh?
[11:04 AM] Ubit Umarov: hi lyr.Lobo
[11:04 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me grins
[11:04 AM] Ubit Umarov: you need to upload to them id cards pics etc etc
[11:04 AM] Ubit Umarov: ofc pure nonsense
[11:04 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: All just masking the problem and in the end either data breaches or scandals when it comes out none of it worked
[11:04 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: As if that isn't going to be a possible route to identify theft.
[11:05 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actually LL requires the same to use Tilia
[11:05 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: makes it easier
[11:05 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Discord already has a history of data breaches
[11:05 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I never gave them my ID
[11:05 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I had to upload a copy of the passport
[11:05 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: but after 20 years, they probably figured that I was an adult *winks*
[11:06 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:06 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Tenu, the online China trash store requires you to upload stuff to a UK company to browse all sections of the store
[11:06 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Temu
[11:06 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as an example
[11:07 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: wild
[11:07 AM] Ubit Umarov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY
[11:07 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i've never given a vendor my ID and do not plan to do so
[11:07 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: say goodbye to future online shopping
[11:07 AM] Ubit Umarov: give credit card number.. same thing
[11:08 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I was about to say the same Ubit
[11:08 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: paypal
[11:08 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Cause no kid would ever be able to remember a few digits right... right...
[11:09 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: So in summary both the Opensim and SL discord will be age verified soonish
[11:09 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I already did that for the uk ofcom nonsense
[11:09 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Not fun
[11:09 AM] Ubit Umarov: well this adult crap is just politicians pretending to so something
[11:10 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I will likely leave Discord. But I don't care, I've always felt I can take it or leave it
[11:10 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Another bites the dusk....
[11:11 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The stock and user activity will be interesting to watch
[11:12 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: someone suggested that companies wanting to scrape user data will invest in Discord
[11:12 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Let's see, no commits this week, bad devs were lazy :D New FS release came out fixing some things
[11:12 AM] Ubit Umarov: gess bad lazy devs
[11:13 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Playing games and having fun, how dare they! XD
[11:13 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the ølatest Epson release has turned this county upside down, so there has not been time to think of anything else
[11:13 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Epstein
[11:13 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: epson :-)
[11:14 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: The Epson printer scandal
[11:14 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me chuckles
[11:14 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe
[11:14 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The page didn't print itself or something
[11:15 AM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:15 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: pages would only print redacted
[11:15 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Misterblue. Long time, no see.
[11:15 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi MB
[11:15 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Hi MrBlue!
[11:15 AM] Misterblue Waves: hello all. Long time no rez.
[11:15 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:19 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Any physics related news for us, Misterblue?
[11:19 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: or WebRTC?
[11:19 AM] Misterblue Waves: havent done anything with physics
[11:20 AM] Misterblue Waves: for WebRTC, it still has the problem that IMs don't work when WebRTC is enabled/happening
[11:20 AM] Misterblue Waves: for that, I've grubbed through the code and haven't figured it out (the chat code in the viewer is kinda convoluted)
[11:21 AM] Ubit Umarov: you mean person to person ims right?
[11:21 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: local chat too
[11:21 AM] Misterblue Waves: the only thought I have is that LL might have used the group chat system for IMs
[11:21 AM] Misterblue Waves: that is, there is that whole group chat and chatterbox stuff that is optional in OpenSIm
[11:22 AM] Misterblue Waves: it could be that now, even person-to-person chats expect the chatterbox event and then set up the general chat stuff
[11:22 AM] Ubit Umarov: part of chatterbox is needed for voice
[11:23 AM] Ubit Umarov: hmm mb ims want to check mute state on voice servers?
[11:24 AM] Ubit Umarov: well no idea.. jsut guessing
[11:24 AM] Misterblue Waves: it would make some sense for them to do that (consolidate chat into the general system) but I have not done the work of setting that stuff up and seeing if that is what they're doing
[11:24 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Would it be helpful if a FS dev got involved or help answer questions?
[11:25 AM] Ubit Umarov: ages ago on sl test servers, p2p text ims did not work when the webrtc voice servers where down
[11:25 AM] Ubit Umarov: so it is clear they to want something from them
[11:25 AM] Ubit Umarov: local chat worked fone
[11:25 AM] Ubit Umarov: see no relation..
[11:26 AM] Ubit Umarov: fone? fine!
[11:27 AM] Ubit Umarov: well no solution for win.. so pain to test it fully
[11:27 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Is spacial audio also being worked on?
[11:27 AM] Ubit Umarov: yeah dream on...
[11:27 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me smiles
[11:27 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That's kinda the big stand out feature
[11:28 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Dolby Atmos
[11:28 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: support is needed
[11:28 AM] Ubit Umarov: and wil be fun to see webrtc running on machines as powerfuls as PIs, with regions also
[11:30 AM] Ubit Umarov: ofc they will only blame robert for slow code :)
[11:30 AM] Misterblue Waves: there was work on modifying Janus to process the data channel but I haven't heard much in a while
[11:30 AM] Ubit Umarov: ... will all ...
[11:30 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: had a message arrive from Orbert about the latest Firestorm not working with the latest linux Kubuntu 25.10 - crashed under Wayland, but ran X11. Since they are dropping X11 support this year, he had to downgrade Linux to Kubuntu 24.04 to run Firestorm
[11:30 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: FYI
[11:30 AM] Ubit Umarov: well working fine on win so far
[11:31 AM] Ubit Umarov: and he should tell fs on their hmm jira?
[11:31 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: sorry, that was not with firestorm 7.2.3 but with the previous version
[11:31 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: libgdiplus is dependent on X11 yeah
[11:31 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes, will tell him ...just FYI
[11:32 AM] Ubit Umarov: at most libgdi uses libs from glib
[11:32 AM] Ubit Umarov: that is not x11
[11:32 AM] Misterblue Waves: For webrtc, there is the capability ChatSessionRequest that the Vivox driver kinda ignored. That is generated when trying to start an IM. Does anyone know anything about that?
[11:32 AM] Ubit Umarov: in fact libs from GTK ?
[11:33 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I only noticed when I installed libgdiplus on macOS it installed s hitload of X11 stuff
[11:33 AM] Misterblue Waves: oh man, I'm fighting library differences in the different Linuxes. It's not pretty even between Ubuntu versions.
[11:34 AM] Ubit Umarov: it needes pango anc cairo if i remember
[11:34 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: And pango seems to be bugged at the moment as well
[11:34 AM] Ubit Umarov: well that is why linux is useless for desktop
[11:34 AM] Ubit Umarov: distros just killed it
[11:34 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes it does Ubit
[11:35 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Linux updates suffer from changes in libc when moving to new kernels. I would just stick with Deb 13 or Ub 24.04 for development.
[11:35 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all of these are X11 related dependecies installed on macOS
[11:35 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: xorg-libice @1.1.2_0 (active) xorg-libsm @1.2.6_0 (active) xorg-libX11 @1.8.12_0 (active) xorg-libXau @1.0.12_0 (active) xorg-libxcb @1.17.0_0+python312 (active) xorg-libXdmcp @1.1.5_0 (active) xorg-libXext @1.3.6_0 (active) xorg-libXt @1.3.1_0+docs (active) xorg-xcb-proto @1.17.0_0+python312 (active) xorg-xcb-util @0.4.1_0 (active) xorg-xorgproto @2024.1_0 (active) xrender @0.9.12_0 (active)
[11:35 AM] Ubit Umarov: wel wine also needs libgdiplus
[11:35 AM] Ubit Umarov: ans other things
[11:36 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: libice is the dependency it needed, rest probably just part of that chain
[11:36 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Cause that's what pango wants to build as well
[11:37 AM] Ubit Umarov: ice on libgdi??
[11:37 AM] Ubit Umarov: on webrtc maybe...
[11:37 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Even though lib pango dev doesn't... no I'm not gonna get angry over this again
[11:38 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: One day Canonical or the maintainer will fix it, maybe before I crumble into dust
[11:38 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Someone shoudl email them, we might be the only ones who care
[11:39 AM] Ubit Umarov: hmm and long since i did look to voice code MB
[11:39 AM] Ubit Umarov: but fear data channel maybe a must
[11:39 AM] Misterblue Waves: there is a lot of functionality in the data channel that goes with the audio
[11:40 AM] Ubit Umarov: well and valic certs
[11:40 AM] Ubit Umarov: viewers may enforce certs validation
[11:40 AM] Misterblue Waves: per-user volume, muting, who has voice (all the white dots), ...
[11:40 AM] Ubit Umarov: ll uses own signed certs, but adds itself to viewers as root
[11:41 AM] Ubit Umarov: not sure what viewers enforce on that
[11:42 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does this region no longer have voice?
[11:42 AM] Ubit Umarov: hmm
[11:42 AM] Ubit Umarov: has music.. be happy with that..
[11:42 AM] Misterblue Waves: I don't know how the group chat stuff works. Who last worked on that?
[11:42 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Focus on the spatial audio and things like muting and volume. That's more important than IMs. Viewers have things for adhoc group IMs as well, which isn't supported either so that's icing on the cake for later
[11:43 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[11:43 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I wouldn't know. I haven't had working voice in world in quite some time.
[11:43 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have to check if it is gone on my grid too
[11:44 AM] Misterblue Waves: I run my own Janus server if anyone needs a server to test with. Just IM me for the API key
[11:44 AM] Ubit Umarov: module is loaded
[11:44 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: IMs work on session ids which are negotiated among the participants and kept track of internally. There is a call to create one and then the users can talk to each other, which means it isn't just a single call to create one
[11:45 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Thanks, Misterblue
[11:45 AM] Ubit Umarov: pff not getting any messages abt voice on console
[11:45 AM] Ubit Umarov: wonder if this viewer still has vivox
[11:46 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It does, I have voice from my home region
[11:46 AM] Ubit Umarov: Beq told me it would stay for opensim
[11:46 AM] Ubit Umarov: ok
[11:46 AM] Misterblue Waves: it looks like the viewer sends some IDs to the server with the ChatSessionRequest. I figure that might should generate a chatterbox event to the other person so they can negotiate voice or text chatting. Still, haven't tested so not sure.
[11:47 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Which branch is the one to test with, because not all of them build?
[11:47 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have lost voice in my grid it looks lie
[11:47 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: like
[11:48 AM] Misterblue Waves: the WebRTC code is still an addon-module for OpenSim master. There isn't a good standalone solution so it hasn't been incorporated into core
[11:48 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[11:49 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LBSA still has or?
[11:49 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: But you have multiple branches on github for it, some older than others. Some of those don't build with master dev as they use code that doesn't exist there
[11:49 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Can't really integrate it anyways seeing as the license is mismatched at the moment
[11:50 AM] Misterblue Waves: doesn't os-webrtc-janus main branch build with OpenSim?
[11:51 AM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That one works, but it's also months old now, other branches are newer
[11:51 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it has
[11:51 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok Ubit
[11:52 AM] Misterblue Waves: there is the feature/loginRequestAdds branch that has an attempt to make IMs work. Was a dead end.
[11:52 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: brb
[11:52 AM] Ubit Umarov: no voice connection at lbsa either
[11:53 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no?
[11:53 AM] Ubit Umarov: oops nm it did connect
[11:53 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right
[11:54 AM] Ubit Umarov: hmm seems i have no settings for vivox
[11:54 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that would explain it :)
[11:54 AM] Misterblue Waves: when logging in, the login response contains some new parameters (audio_config and voice-config) and I though those might be effecting the text IM selection in the viewer. That wasn't so.
[11:56 AM] Misterblue Waves: there is also a patch to OpenSim to add a callback so modules can add fields to the login response. That should probably be added to OpenSim in any case.
[11:56 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think that is just adding ability to configure rather than use hardcoded values
[11:57 AM] Misterblue Waves: since Vivox seems to be deader than it used to be, I should spend some more time on WebRTC
[11:57 AM] Ubit Umarov: login is grid side
[11:58 AM] Ubit Umarov: regions cant mess with that
[11:59 AM] Misterblue Waves: hummm... you're right about that. Those setting must be setting grid defaults. The values are audio_config=webrtc and voice-config={VoiceServerType=webrtc}
[12:00 PM] Misterblue Waves: must be defaults if the information isn't in the Features list
[12:01 PM] Misterblue Waves: or maybe just non-functional stuff left over from early LL development. Who knows. But it doesn't seem to make any difference as far as I can tell.
[12:01 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Thank you for your support Misterblue. We appreciate it
[12:02 PM] Ubit Umarov: i dont see that at sl login
[12:03 PM] Misterblue Waves: what about the voice mixer? I did Janus because it was available and usable. But it's a separate server that must be run per grid (and region can run its own). But do we want a separate service like that?
[12:03 PM] Misterblue Waves: I guess it's like money service
[12:04 PM] Ubit Umarov: only see 'VoiceServerType':'webrtc'
[12:04 PM] Ubit Umarov: on simulator features
[12:04 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If you want to run mail you have to supply an smtp server and outside of sqlite a database server. External dependencies are fine. Now it would be better if those were also platform independent like the dbs, but even those aren't truly independent either
[12:05 PM] Misterblue Waves: I tried to make Janus as easy to use as possible with a Docker image
[12:05 PM] Misterblue Waves: but adding the voice data channel process would be a new Janus plugin so it would kindof become a custom version of Janus for OpenSim
[12:06 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have to go. We'll see next week
[12:06 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The build instructions for janus aren't difficult to follow and actually seem to work, so adding a plugin to that wouldn't be hard
[12:06 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Just an extra plugin. Janus seems to be failrly easy to build
[12:07 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I got the same success/errors building and running on a Mac lol
[12:07 PM] Misterblue Waves: looking at Github, it is shocking that I did the webrtc addon over a year ago
[12:07 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so thjats actually encouraging
[12:07 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The bigger problem with this is latency and session management. Ideally a setup would run multiple instances in different locations, selecting the one with the best connection to all participants, but this also means it benefits from being able to move these sessions to more appropriate locations depending on who is connected
[12:08 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Far as I can tell webrtc sessions can be moved and clients told where else to connect to, but this isn't builtin in janus either
[12:09 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Building an entirely new system for voice might as well do it properly and thoroughly
[12:09 PM] Ubit Umarov: janus only ships with some demos
[12:09 PM] Ubit Umarov: ll made most of the needed code
[12:10 PM] Ubit Umarov: janus gives the control etc..
[12:11 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: I hope voice will be working nicely by next OSCC. It would be nice to be able to talk in world again.
[12:11 PM] Misterblue Waves: and I'm not sure how complete the LL webrtc implementation is. The protocol handshake is webrtc-ish but, like it doesn't do the usual ICE negotation (using it's own Capability). I wouldn't be surprized to find that session handoff and such isn't there
[12:11 PM] Ubit Umarov: "
[12:11 PM] Ubit Umarov: Janus is a WebRTC Gateway developed by Meetecho conceived to be a general purpose one. As such, it doesn't provide any functionality per se other than implementing the means to set up a WebRTC media communication with a browser, exchanging JSON messages with it, and relaying RTP/RTCP and messages between browsers and the server-side application logic they're attached to. Any specific feature/application is provided by server side plugins, that browsers can then contact via the gateway to take advantage of the functionality they provide. Example of such plugins can be implementations of applications like echo tests, conference bridges, media recorders, SIP gateways and the like.
[12:11 PM] Ubit Umarov: "
[12:11 PM] Ubit Umarov: it is their imp
[12:12 PM] Ubit Umarov: all webrtc things are unique
[12:12 PM] Ubit Umarov: discord totally diverge form spec
[12:12 PM] Ubit Umarov: from..
[12:13 PM] Ubit Umarov: ofc no 3d voice on webrtc, that i know :)
[12:13 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: could be with a new plugin :)
[12:13 PM] Ubit Umarov: so guess we could call it llWebRTC
[12:13 PM] Joyce.Bettencourt @grid.avacon.org:8002: hello
[12:14 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hi Joyce!
[12:14 PM] Ubit Umarov: hi joyce.Bettencourt
[12:14 PM] Misterblue Waves: 3d voice is not in webrtc. SL has all that info in their own data channel that is parallel to the audio channel. All mixing must happen in Janus (or whatever)
[12:14 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Joyce.
[12:14 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: great to see you
[12:15 PM] Ubit Umarov: happens on the conference bridge
[12:15 PM] Joyce.Bettencourt @grid.avacon.org:8002: Lyr was sharing some notes on this chat on webRTC and Firestorm.. so wanted to pop by
[12:15 PM] Misterblue Waves: I'm not a low-level audio mixing wizard. I am afraid to dig into a 3d audio mixing module
[12:16 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: understandable
[12:16 PM] Ubit Umarov: guess is is messing up volume per user
[12:16 PM] Ubit Umarov: on top of per user volume control
[12:17 PM] Misterblue Waves: the only code I know to crib from would be the audio mixing being used in the Overte virtual world. That one is the source code that came from HighFidelity
[12:17 PM] Ubit Umarov: the linden working on voice worked on that also
[12:17 PM] Misterblue Waves: per-user volume is in the data channel and, yes, at the moment, there is no per-user volume, muting
[12:18 PM] Misterblue Waves: also no white dot over the other avatars that have voice
[12:18 PM] Ubit Umarov: ( did migrate to ll whne phil returned it seems )
[12:18 PM] Ubit Umarov: well chant ims are the worse issue
[12:19 PM] Ubit Umarov: chat also
[12:19 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Thats what we need, local chant
[12:19 PM] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:19 PM] Jagga.Meridith @hg.zetaworlds.com: (gets out Liber Usualis)
[12:19 PM] Ubit Umarov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9nmSJ3gesE&list=RDMM&index=10
[12:20 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: MisterBlue, would a meetup with a FS dev help at this point? Just tossing out ideas
[12:21 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: We have contacts there and you got Gavin as well, so plenty of brainpower to dig into the viewer side of things, just need to know what exactly to look for
[12:23 PM] Ubit Umarov: well i did install wsl
[12:24 PM] Ubit Umarov: but ofc have issues with current robert license
[12:24 PM] Ubit Umarov: wel details
[12:24 PM] Ubit Umarov: ofc that is a linux (mac) only solution also
[12:24 PM] Ubit Umarov: i was looking for other code
[12:25 PM] Ubit Umarov: but its lic has a ban to israel
[12:25 PM] Joyce.Bettencourt @grid.avacon.org:8002: would bringing in puffball too be helpful.. not sure if she can help with anything in diving into the existing viewer voice for her viewer approach
[12:25 PM] Misterblue Waves: the only question I could have for the FS people is about group messaging being used for the IMs. But they probably don't know the answer as that's something the server could have just done
[12:25 PM] Ubit Umarov: forbid to use that code in isreal
[12:25 PM] Misterblue Waves: so I don't think a meeting with FS would help
[12:26 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: @Joyce - I don;t think PuffBall has done any webrtc work
[12:26 PM] Ubit Umarov: ( libreopenmetaverse is using that lib guess no one does read lics )
[12:26 PM] Joyce.Bettencourt @grid.avacon.org:8002: /me nods
[12:27 PM] Misterblue Waves: libremetaverse has a 3-clause BSD license
[12:27 PM] Ubit Umarov: (err libremetaverse )
[12:27 PM] Ubit Umarov: yeha but uses other soft
[12:28 PM] Ubit Umarov: like sipsorcery
[12:29 PM] Ubit Umarov: and that lic reads:
[12:29 PM] Ubit Umarov: ...
[12:29 PM] Ubit Umarov: ## 2. Additional Restriction: Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) – Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike **Boycott Divestment Sanctions – Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike (BDS BY-NC-SA)** This software **must not be used** to further the Apartheid policies of Israel. Use, modification, or distribution **inside** Israel and the Occupied Territories is strictly forbidden until the demands of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement have been met:
[12:29 PM] Ubit Umarov: ....
[12:29 PM] Ubit Umarov: nonsense.. but its there
[12:31 PM] Ubit Umarov: so we can not consider software with such restrictions
[12:31 PM] Ubit Umarov: petty it is a c# stack that includes webrtc
[12:32 PM] Misterblue Waves: time for me to run... I'll again look into the webrtc IM issue. Wish me luck. I hope to return from the spelunking
[12:32 PM] Ubit Umarov: ( ofc with some codecs in native code )
[12:32 PM] Ubit Umarov: Ok MB hope to see you here next week >(
[12:32 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Thanks MisterBlue
[12:32 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: /me grins
[12:33 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: If anyone needs to reach me I'm at cuga@rajal.org. I might not be staying on Discord
[12:34 PM] Ubit Umarov: until you are 16 for them ? :)
[12:34 PM] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: rofl
[12:34 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm involved with some projects and groups of people that use Discord so I won't be leaving it any time soon.
[12:34 PM] Joyce.Bettencourt @grid.avacon.org:8002: yeah that is another community communications rub.. the Discord thing
[12:34 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Good to see you again, Mr. B.
[12:35 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Any last minute items for today?
[12:35 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Have a great day and thanks!
[12:35 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I need to head out... have a great week everybody :)
[12:35 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: See you next week
[12:35 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Cuga.
[12:36 PM] Joyce.Bettencourt @grid.avacon.org:8002: nod Andrew, similar for now
[12:37 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: If there is nothing further for today I will end with my usual comment.
[12:37 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
