[11:01 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hello, everyone.
[11:01 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: hi
[11:01 AM] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: hihi
[11:01 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well my are always has one almost every week
[11:03 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well arrived and saw a invite there.. just looking :)
[11:04 AM] Vincent Sylvester: I forgot to write Joe, damn I knew there was something I wanted to do
[11:04 AM] Orbert Tatham: Who sent you the invite?
[11:05 AM] Orbert Tatham: I gave joe the LM here
[11:06 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: hmm someone that is on opensim server also
[11:07 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well seems a complx cinfusing thing... but whatever
[11:07 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: to start metaverse client? what is that?
[11:08 AM] Orbert Tatham: Think replacing FS
[11:08 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: fs is not metaverse
[11:08 AM] Vincent Sylvester: ngc nonsense all over again
[11:09 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: but sure.. another new thing.. always good.. kinda..
[11:09 AM] Orbert Tatham: Hey, at least encourage the poor kid - we need something to keep SLS from dragging us into oblivion with them
[11:10 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Do as tj does and contrib to FS on behalf of OpenSim
[11:10 AM] Vincent Sylvester: That's getting traction
[11:10 AM] Orbert Tatham: Real competition would be even better and more effective
[11:10 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Market too niche for that
[11:10 AM] Orbert Tatham: Open Source is in a lot smaller places
[11:11 AM] Vincent Sylvester: What and bully FS into making OpenSim changes? They just gonna stop bothering entirely, there is no leverage
[11:11 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: wel im kinda bored reading ppl telling ll code is bad and old
[11:11 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hello *grins*
[11:11 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: having really nothing to show still
[11:12 AM] Vincent Sylvester: It's easier to help them make that part less of a hassle for them and they be more inclined to use that gained time positively
[11:12 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Being contrarian is easy, actually making headway is a whole different matter
[11:13 AM] Orbert Tatham: Which is why I am trying to encourage the kid
[11:13 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: readiing there a complain abotu no doc
[11:13 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: in fact ll has tons of dod... ( some mb a bit obsolete.. but tons )
[11:14 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Encouraging someone to go through the backlog of FS issues and try fixing those or something. It's akin to electing to use a muddy field instead of the perfectly smooth street
[11:14 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeah sure a new thing.. nice..
[11:14 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: wait and see
[11:14 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Amen
[11:15 AM] Orbert Tatham: Obsolete is worse than no docs
[11:15 AM] Orbert Tatham: If you have ever tried to code off of them,
[11:15 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well not really
[11:15 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: when structure is same
[11:16 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Documentation is always poor, universal for software
[11:16 AM] Orbert Tatham: As Joe found out, structures aren't even similar at times
[11:16 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: talking abotu viewers, wonder how joe is doing..
[11:16 AM] Orbert Tatham: He came out with a new version
[11:17 AM] Orbert Tatham: Says it is stable
[11:17 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: nice
[11:17 AM] Orbert Tatham: I tried it, It works, sorta
[11:17 AM] Orbert Tatham: Can't do much with it, no camera controls, no avatars
[11:17 AM] Orbert Tatham: I was able to sail my boat, but couldn't see where I was sailing
[11:18 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: easy... sailing on the wings of your imagination ( until a crash into something )
[11:18 AM] Orbert Tatham: He has been working on it for 5 years, and is kinda burned out, but won't let me see the code, so I guess it will die with him
[11:19 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I was hoping he would make a Mac version. still crossing fingers
[11:19 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it is complex project
[11:20 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes. Has potential to be game-changer on Mac more than other platforms
[11:20 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Mac is hard after all, really difficult ;)
[11:20 AM] Orbert Tatham: Sure it is, that is why I am encouraging this young-and-energetic kid
[11:20 AM] Orbert Tatham: Rust will at least cross compile to Mac
[11:20 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ohh that will pass fast.. ( the young part ... )
[11:20 AM] Orbert Tatham: It has that support built in
[11:20 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: :p
[11:20 AM] Orbert Tatham: Sure, but while they have the energy
[11:21 AM] Orbert Tatham: might as well ride the horse until it falls over
[11:21 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeack.. lets change to more positive waters :)
[11:21 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Commits!
[11:21 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Yes. There was a few this past week.
[11:21 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: wel i said positive vincent.Sylvester
[11:21 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ;)
[11:22 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: :)
[11:22 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well not much
[11:23 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: i did add a series of osListAs* replacements for llList2*
[11:24 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: this are more restrictive on the typecasts mostly need that the element indexed is of the expected type
[11:24 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and only allowing indexing relative to 0
[11:25 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: this restrictions do save same cpu
[11:27 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: vincent.Sylvester offered a patch adding a bit more report on mesh uploader code
[11:27 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Added some more detailed feedback to the mesh upload in regards to objects being too small as there was no information on what actually breaks. Not the best way to do it, but it should help. Still probably a good idea to have some python check script for blender to test for this before exporting in the first place, an exercise for the reader heh
[11:28 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well not really that easy
[11:28 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: since real size will depend on final scale
[11:29 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Too much math and python for my tiny brain :)
[11:29 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: more feedback for mesh uploader is good
[11:29 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so thats a check at the scale at that upload point
[11:30 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: there are a few cases where it breaks with no explanation
[11:30 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: more info is good
[11:30 AM] Vincent Sylvester: I still recommend uploading things piece by piece, but that is also very time consuming
[11:31 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that how you uploaded the blue truck?
[11:32 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Nah that was uploaded using old version and just brute force
[11:32 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeah always better to break things in little parts and link later
[11:33 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: or viewers will do a lot of "guess work" and you may not like the result
[11:33 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: specially if there are gaps... etc
[11:33 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: you get better physics for sure, and better options on segmenting parts with and without physics
[11:34 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( viewers will try to break into several prims also.. )
[11:34 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: You can join them in Blender, but with limitations on the number of materials and UV Map naming
[11:35 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well you should not JOIN them...
[11:35 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: as i just said
[11:35 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: viwers will do a lot og guess work spliting them
[11:35 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: you can have them on the model but as indepent objects
[11:36 AM] Orbert Tatham: And the physics layer is totally screwed up unless you do it in tiny pieces
[11:36 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so you can texturize at same time etc
[11:36 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thats generally true for very large models
[11:36 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: smaller ones, wearables, not so important. Just use a cube for physics
[11:36 AM] Orbert Tatham: I couldn't even get a simple tent in
[11:37 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I uploaded a couple hunddred models last year
[11:37 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: wearbles mostly just upload without physics at all
[11:37 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( viewers will still add a convex hull )
[11:37 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Eventually you find all the caveats and then it becomes easier
[11:37 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: well you have to pick something for physics
[11:37 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no you have not
[11:38 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: oh that reminds me of a question I had
[11:38 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: if it will be a wearable only, you should not add any physics
[11:38 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: does uploadfinf mesh with uBODE or Bullet make a difference?
[11:38 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: uploading*
[11:38 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: upload has nothing to with physcs engine
[11:39 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok
[11:39 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: how they are used does :)
[11:39 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( so.. kinda impacts upload decisions :) )
[11:39 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: sometimes I see a different LI mesh depending on uBODE or Bullet
[11:39 AM] Vincent Sylvester: That's the meshmerizer
[11:40 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ant the option to NOT add anuthing for physics the a major diference bts bullet and ubode
[11:40 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: btw
[11:40 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: well thats important
[11:40 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: whats the diff?
[11:40 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well old news.. have no more pacience to talk abotu it
[11:40 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: kk
[11:40 AM] Vincent Sylvester: heh
[11:40 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: just ione sentence summary
[11:41 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: need hulls for Bullet not for uBODE?
[11:41 AM] Vincent Sylvester: The big takeaway, don't mix the physics and meshmerizer, use the correct ones
[11:41 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/How_To_Upload_Mesh
[11:41 AM] Orbert Tatham: And PRAY that FS has a clue
[11:42 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: :)
[11:42 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I always use physics and the simplest one needed
[11:42 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: never left it out
[11:42 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: curious what that does different in uBODE and Bukllet
[11:42 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: wel it is legal to select nothing for physics
[11:42 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: it does allow that
[11:43 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: viewers will always add a small convex hull
[11:43 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: you said uBODE and Bullet handle those differently
[11:43 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: correct?
[11:43 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ubode will use that or Nothin
[11:43 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: not PRIM option
[11:43 AM] Vincent Sylvester: On complex objects each object in the model is meant to have a physics mesh associated with it, that's good practice for any game dev stuff. That will upload fine. The way materials split objects is why you should join logical things and apply proper uv maps, which will also reduce texture load
[11:43 AM] Vincent Sylvester: There is a lot of information on that now on both wikis
[11:44 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no... several objects are supposed to have no physics
[11:44 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: but simple one
[11:44 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ie avatar mesh and wearables
[11:45 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the physics is just ignored on those
[11:45 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ofc damm bad if you do not select physcs collider for a mesh house..
[11:45 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Not what I mean by complex objects. Talking about a house, with doors you have those as their own objects, but they then need physics models attached to them right in blender, else you get no physics on them
[11:45 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Easier to just upload such things in parts though
[11:45 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( even so you can.. if the hosue is supposed to have simple prim colliders added later
[11:45 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes when thery will move independently
[11:46 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: anyways .. to leave viewers physcis tab alone ( ie empty ) IS A VALID option
[11:46 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: for things that will not have any physucs collisions. correct?
[11:47 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeap
[11:47 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok, I think adding that last part makes it more clear
[11:47 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well irritating how this is still a issue to talk abotu
[11:47 AM] Vincent Sylvester: For a box type thing. If you want to upload a donut you should just supply a simplified physics mesh using the from file option, that usually works better than relying on the viewer to generate one
[11:48 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: NO..
[11:48 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: if you want a box collider that add a BOX LATER
[11:48 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: or a sphere
[11:49 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Anything that has a hole in it you need to supply something, you can't use bounding boxes for that
[11:49 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: can add 4 boxes :p
[11:49 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Ubit you mean link in ordinary prims and make invisible?
[11:50 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: anyways.. how to make meshes is not a topic for this meetins
[11:50 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yeah we could waste a lot of time talking about that lol
[11:50 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: lots osf material about that... with ubode it is like sl
[11:50 AM] Vincent Sylvester: yes
[11:50 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: lots of material abotu that on the web i mean
[11:51 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: The web page referenced earlier was updated some time ago on how to upload meshes.
[11:51 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: nothing changed on that
[11:51 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: since 0.9.x
[11:51 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: basicly
[11:52 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: current changes where just on some more messages
[11:53 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: abotu next meeting location
[11:53 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: think we can try to use osgrid again?
[11:53 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Is the region back online?
[11:53 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: just fired it lol
[11:54 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ofc lsot assets
[11:54 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: guess we lost the dino
[11:54 AM] Vincent Sylvester: rip
[11:54 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: or the lifesaver than can't swim
[11:55 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Were the oars all without assets?
[11:55 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: anyways.. guess next week we can try ti
[11:55 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it
[11:55 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ofc thanks Vincent for hosting us, and keeping this as reserve
[11:55 AM] Orbert Tatham: OSGrid keeps having wierd teleport issues
[11:56 AM] Orbert Tatham: so expect those
[11:56 AM] Vincent Sylvester: So same as always been
[11:56 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeah no big news on that :)
[11:56 AM] Orbert Tatham: Actually worse
[11:56 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: oh?
[11:57 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: could never do my IAR conversion and now their website doesnt come up
[11:57 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I've gotten used to coming here the past several weeks. I'll have to leave a note to myself as a reminder to go to the old location next week.
[11:57 AM] Orbert Tatham: I always try the old first ;)
[11:58 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ohh dino is there
[11:59 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Only thing that may be slightly broken would be the npc since that didn't have all the parts in the uuid gatherer up until recently so that may be missing some things
[12:00 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Not an integral part of the region though
[12:00 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: wel i didn't uplaod any oar
[12:00 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Just need the chairs and the beer ;)
[12:00 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I need to go.. Take care all
[12:00 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: didn't delete the region cache
[12:00 PM] Orbert Tatham: I have emy own server with console accesss, so it was no trouble
[12:00 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: ok, Cuga. Thanks for dropping by.
[12:00 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: cya next week cuga
[12:01 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Any last minute items for today?
[12:01 PM] Vincent Sylvester: I fiddled with the github stuff yesterday, setup something to build on windows
[12:01 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: No, and thank you all for your support and you, Ubit, for your updates and great work
[12:01 PM] Vincent Sylvester: And doing the script syntax thing via python
[12:01 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: great
[12:01 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Still trying to make sense of how that system works
[12:02 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well not changing main for now
[12:02 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no real need to compile on win
[12:02 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Nah, would need to run that on some machine as well, linux is fine
[12:02 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and unless local compile, github windoes cimpile costs 2x
[12:03 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and macos compile 10x
[12:03 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Only upside is having the executables, but those are just wrappers anyways
[12:03 PM] Vincent Sylvester: The self host setup was actually fairly easy to do
[12:03 PM] Vincent Sylvester: But then you have to maintain a windows virtual machine somewhere
[12:03 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: if a dotnet compile on a os fails on other, then dotnet is jsut broken
[12:04 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it is compile into IL and virtual machine..
[12:04 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: not into native
[12:05 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( ofc there maybe tiny issues.. like caps on paths.. \ versus / and lf versus crlf etc
[12:06 PM] Orbert Tatham: LAter folks
[12:06 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: cya
[12:06 PM] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: *waves*
[12:07 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: tc, Orbert.
[12:07 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: If there is nothing more for today I will call this meeting to a close.
[12:08 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week in osgrid if the region is up or else we will meet back here again.
