[11:10 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hello, everyone.
[11:11 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Fun and games today. I couldn't get logged in to the grid I use to get here.
[11:11 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Found a different route that should be more reliable. Still had to look up on the OS website the URL for here. :)
[11:12 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Could always use a local account
[11:14 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I could do that. What's one more grid entry in my long list. ;)
[11:15 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Is there chat lag or are we still drinking our coffee?
[11:15 AM] Vincent Sylvester: I don't drink coffee
[11:16 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: still getting our morning caffeine
[11:16 AM] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everybody
[11:16 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hello, Jamie.
[11:17 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I am also sans coffee
[11:17 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Let's see, my todolist kept getting longer and longer this week so I didn't get around to setting up a sqlite build on mac yet
[11:17 AM] Vincent Sylvester: I did look at their changelog some more though
[11:18 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: So a few weeks ago I built a test version of libsqlite for Vincent and posted it on mantis. We determined it is not going to work, for anybody
[11:18 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Has it been removed from trunk?
[11:18 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Apart from one the mac users we have seem savvy enough to handle that
[11:19 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I want to ask that it be removed if it has not already
[11:19 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: it benefits nobody
[11:19 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: decision not to remove it is a bad decision
[11:19 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: remove please
[11:20 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I will mark the Mantis as resolved, and note that testing detetmined it isd not going to work
[11:21 AM] Vincent Sylvester: I would like to record the build process for all platforms for the entire set of db connectors, sqlite and mysql, so I started a page for that on the wiki mirror
[11:21 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: great
[11:21 AM] Vincent Sylvester: sqlite we can probably just update to the latest version, but I need to go over the data parts in the code to see if there is case sensitivity that may be trouble
[11:22 AM] Vincent Sylvester: mysql has a minor change in it, think Ubit built them at one point, so no idea what the build instructions are for those either
[11:22 AM] Vincent Sylvester: postgres.... just gives me a headache
[11:23 AM] Vincent Sylvester: That is going to be just a pain to get working if at all
[11:23 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Currently that connector doesn't work with latest version of it because it needs an update as well, but then it requires over a dozen other dependencies
[11:26 AM] Vincent Sylvester: I went through what I could find on the libs that are being built custom, but I am not even sure I have them all
[11:27 AM] Vincent Sylvester: https://opensimulator.dev/wiki/Libraries Based on the opensim-libs projects and other stuff that appears to have been added at some point
[11:28 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Once the list is confirmed probably move that to the main wiki and hopefully get some contributions on the build instructions for them
[11:29 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: doesn't that dylib include the lib ofr other macs?
[11:30 AM] Vincent Sylvester: multi arch yes, intel and arm
[11:30 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so will intel work witohut it?
[11:31 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes, but same issue of version mismatch with other OS's
[11:31 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Intel mac has a local one it uses in that case as well
[11:32 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Ideally if we can get the build instructions for the libs they could all be integrated into jenkins to have them built whenever they need updates
[11:32 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Things like that change in mysql one can be applied as patch over the primary source of it
[11:32 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: github has a similar multi-platform build thingy
[11:33 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: MrBlue was using it for Bullet
[11:34 AM] Vincent Sylvester: First step is getting the documentation for the build process, rest is easy :)
[11:35 AM] Vincent Sylvester: In other news, had a few commits this week
[11:35 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: It was a busy week.
[11:36 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Both llHmac and the compute hash thing should be fully implemented now, have a test, let me know if I missed a byte somewhere
[11:36 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Ubit also updated the script syntax, but at the moment seems viewers ignore that
[11:37 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no they do not ignore that
[11:37 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Something in the last year or two broke that override
[11:38 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hey guys
[11:38 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hello, Gavin.
[11:38 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: like before viewers seem to upload their own version of syntax on top fo teh region one, overriding things with same keyname
[11:38 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: *waves to Gavin
[11:38 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: nothing nwo .. they have done this for a long time
[11:38 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ..new..
[11:39 AM] Vincent Sylvester: If it was only that any custom function would still be there, but it completed discards the region supplied data
[11:39 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: new functions do show up fine.. we jsu cant change the ones on viewers distro
[11:39 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: wel by viewers we mean firestorm
[11:40 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: did not test others like dayturn :)
[11:40 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what are we discussing?
[11:40 AM] Vincent Sylvester: They don't show up. For example osGetSimulatorCPUUsage is available on this region, I manually add highlighting for all functions I add and it's not being highlighted
[11:40 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: scritp syntax mess on fs
[11:41 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hmm, ok
[11:41 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for the version 2.9.x series it use the viewer fallback always so I have to add it
[11:41 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: th version 3.x has probably much of the same as FS reading the LL supplied plus some
[11:42 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is one of the things that needs to be sorted
[11:42 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: fs seens to load the region one, then overrides with its own...
[11:42 AM] Vincent Sylvester: I went through a bunch of file histories so far trying to find when and how it broke, but haven't found anything yet
[11:42 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so only our nre thigns show up
[11:42 AM] Vincent Sylvester: I know it was working about 3 years ago as I have picture proof, but 3 years of commits is a lot to search through
[11:42 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: whic makes it pointless to read the region one I suppose
[11:43 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so idea why they added their own
[11:43 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: opensim has that for ages
[11:43 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I can't speak on their behalf
[11:43 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: soi dea? no idea! :)
[11:44 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Have to keep searching code to see if I can find what's going on, but I am not exactly well versed in c++ or viewer codebase
[11:44 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well on code changes i added some attachments cleanup on appearence
[11:45 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: becaur of osgird
[11:45 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: because..
[11:45 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I thought that was the reason...
[11:45 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well we had nover seen issues until osgrid now
[11:46 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: a side effect is that if someone does login with inventory service down, it will lose the attachments
[11:47 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I got my OSG avatar dressed. apart from that I haven't restored anything
[11:47 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: may need to rewear them later.. not sure
[11:47 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Oh great, that's very useful /s
[11:47 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: lose as in actually lose, or just being stripped from the outfit?
[11:48 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: stripped out of current outfit
[11:48 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sounds reasoinable
[11:48 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I had same issue. The item remains in inv, but not worn and you get an error dialog that the thing can't be found in the db
[11:49 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: frustrated I haven't been able to do my IAR
[11:49 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeah, and there was no ohter way to remove the ones really lost
[11:49 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: going to retire my OGG avi
[11:49 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: OSG*
[11:50 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Well there is, unless you are so daft to not know how the database works in that regard. Purging appearance and outfit folder is a common requirement when things break so not sure why there isn't a web tool for that. They used to have that at one point
[11:51 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: also on oar save i have miss the scan if pbr materials to look for the textures uuids
[11:51 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: in case of the 4 terrain ones
[11:51 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so fixed that now
[11:51 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Also had a commit to stop grid admins getting banned off regions, although that only sticks now so existing bans are still having effect
[11:52 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: also added more checks to prevent ppl from adding grid admins to estate ban list
[11:53 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: good
[11:53 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: added a few ooops
[11:53 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: oops that is not code
[11:55 AM] Vincent Sylvester: I got some more lsl functions in the pipeline, but after that anything that's missing is either not worth adding or belongs to features OpenSim doesn't have
[11:56 AM] Vincent Sylvester: With the condition of the db connectors up in the air submission of the new migration system doesn't make sense since that uses functions that are so deep into their custom code that it may need adjusting after those are updated
[11:57 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what? – You have not started on slua yet? :-)
[11:57 AM] Vincent Sylvester: *vomits*
[11:57 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: :)
[11:58 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Sooner I'll implement a fortran compiler than touch that shit
[11:58 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe
[11:58 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: would be useful for physics simulations
[11:59 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Vincent, I can also think of several other languages before I'd tink of lua.
[12:00 PM] Vincent Sylvester: cobol, haskell, brainfcuk, java...
[12:00 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Applescript!
[12:00 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: would have to be SLApplescript
[12:01 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Pascal :)
[12:01 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I may still have some punch cards lying around
[12:01 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: luea was a basic opton
[12:01 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I know I do.
[12:01 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: robloz had made llua to do their scripting
[12:01 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: roblox
[12:01 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have never used punch cards....
[12:02 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so ll just took it
[12:02 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Lua was used in an X11 window manager I used 20 yrs ago... Enlightenment
[12:02 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: only time I ever used it
[12:02 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we had a machine that had to be booted from paper tape before it could read the disks
[12:02 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it is astupid language
[12:03 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: as i said ll was getting mono based scripting getting a bit old.. so just went that lower cost path
[12:03 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Is like Delphi had a bastard child with Javascript and then someone cut its legs and arms off...
[12:03 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: rofl
[12:04 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ofc pretty soon ll will only be slua
[12:04 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Their loss
[12:04 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and we will not follow
[12:04 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah
[12:04 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and AI
[12:04 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeah they are looking to ai also
[12:04 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there was this town hall...
[12:05 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: think phil even did mention ai girlfriends?
[12:05 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Well then there might actually be something with a half a brain present in their offices for a change
[12:05 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: or buyfriends.. or something like that
[12:05 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: he did
[12:06 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which I actually found creeping
[12:06 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: buyfriends?? weell guess that also :)
[12:06 PM] Vincent Sylvester: LL building an incel army, great...
[12:06 PM] Vincent Sylvester: CharacterAI certainly has never been the source of controversy /s
[12:07 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the Americans seems to have lost the plot theses days. AI being one of them
[12:07 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: why waste time and pacience with a real girl whne you can just rent one?
[12:08 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: fembot
[12:08 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well ofc you can do that wit rl ones also :)
[12:08 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: japan seems to have extrem services on that
[12:08 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: but i meant a ai one ofc
[12:08 PM] Vincent Sylvester: The octopus costs extra
[12:09 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so same trend in world, NPC -> AIbot
[12:09 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: *rolls eyes
[12:09 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Because NPCs aren't creepy enough already
[12:10 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: hehe
[12:10 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the only place AI might be useful is to drive natural animation and not the canned, loopy ones we have now
[12:11 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ofc even the damm ai ones start telling "oh you don't bring me flowers any more "
[12:11 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: That would definitely be a better use case.
[12:11 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Reset Script
[12:11 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Eh with how much horsepower that requires might as well just grab a bodysuit and a motion capture setup. That stuff has come down in cost a lot thanks to the vtuber movement taking off
[12:12 PM] Vincent Sylvester: Then again, requires you can dance too, which isn't a given
[12:12 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( as soon they find neil's song )
[12:13 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: This hours has flown by. If someone has a question/comment they have been waiting to ask, let me know.
[12:14 PM] Vincent Sylvester: I cleared some more mantis things out yesterday, but that's about it
[12:14 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeah rl calls
[12:14 PM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: cya ppl
[12:14 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: ok, Ubit. See you next week.
[12:14 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I need to go too
[12:14 PM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: me too. Take care all
[12:14 PM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have a good week everyone
[12:14 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bye, Gavin.
[12:15 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: If there is nothing further for today I will call this gathering to a close.
[12:15 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
