[11:03 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: sorry to say that there where no code changes since last meeting
[11:03 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that's fine - it is summer
[11:04 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah me and my cpu having melting time :)
[11:04 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can have some cold weather from me
[11:04 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:05 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so what news do you have ?
[11:05 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:05 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: apart from testing the PG version, not much
[11:06 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: installed the iPad version of the SL viewer
[11:06 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it works for what it does, but very limited functionality
[11:06 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well that will not be ported to opensim that soon :)
[11:07 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nope
[11:07 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and then there is the licensing issue
[11:07 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeha close source etc
[11:08 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I watched a video of how Unity is licensed. Got a headache half way through
[11:08 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well there was that sandall not long ago
[11:08 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: payment per installs.. and blablabls
[11:10 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: they want to be paid by most uses of unity not just top selling games
[11:10 AM PT] orbert tatham: Sounds like something developers need to avoid at all costs anyway
[11:11 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which means you have to have some way of monetizing a viewer based on Unity
[11:11 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well that model of free to use until making x per year is fun
[11:12 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no cost estimation until you reach that..
[11:12 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: then you are totally at their hands
[11:12 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but there was also a number of dev limitations on that free version
[11:12 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as I said I gave up half way
[11:12 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: out of irrelevant I suppose
[11:13 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: unless you plan to make a game that fits that model
[11:13 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: a opensim viewer will never fir, for example
[11:13 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: fit..
[11:13 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly, hence irrelevant
[11:14 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: hmm think some are making a unity based viewer for sl
[11:14 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no idea how they will handle that
[11:15 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: dunno
[11:17 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yesterday fs help groupd was still having a lot of compalins about the low performance
[11:17 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and need for new hardware..
[11:18 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Meanwhile the old release seems to have gotten a bit of a boost after running the new one. Guess it messed with some settings
[11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: meanwhile osgrid did release regions bins with recent opensim 0.9.3.0
[11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: -dev
[11:18 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: looks like a HW generation shift will be needed, which will probably impact marginal income SL users
[11:18 AM PT] Joe Magarac: "Region bins"?
[11:19 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so in theory osgrid is pbr :)
[11:19 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: (bins binaries )
[11:19 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Ah.
[11:19 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ofc possible pbr regions next to opensim 0.7.x ones
[11:20 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: actually have no idea of current versions "demographics" at osgrid
[11:21 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: btw on bug on fs is minimap terrain textures
[11:21 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no idea it is not doing them here
[11:21 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: why..
[11:21 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: region is on non pbr ones.. should do them
[11:22 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that does work as sl.. uff
[11:23 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have yet to see a realistic rock with pbr textures in SL. They all look shiny as if it just rained on them
[11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeap
[11:23 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Brings back memories of games of old
[11:24 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ofc you had not seen ubittest2 :p
[11:24 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: afraid not
[11:25 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: You could watch a riot compilation and get the same amount of dumpster fires
[11:26 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Next to all that junk some new lsl functions being made with... as usual.. questionable practices and processes especially in regards to long term consequences
[11:26 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I know, hardly news that
[11:26 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well i didn't add any pf the lsl for pbr
[11:26 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ..of..
[11:27 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Needs more time in the oven all that
[11:27 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: mantis 9148 issues is not invnetory.. is no materials set/get
[11:28 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well sl is happy with that they have.. for them is just time to make $ from it :)
[11:28 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: btw
[11:28 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: old eep gets ugly on new viewers
[11:28 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: there is a debug option that makes its light a bit better
[11:29 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ofc i don't remember the name..
[11:29 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: RenderSkyAutoAdjustProbeAmbiance: Probe ambiance value when auto-adjusting legacy skies
[11:29 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: chage that to 0.0
[11:30 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that autoajust code is just bad in many cases
[11:30 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Gonna be a lovely mess soon of all manners of different levels
[11:30 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( they may had forgotten abotu srgb versus linear.. or something )
[11:31 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Thank goodness their heads are grown on, just a problem that there is hardly anything in them it seems
[11:31 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ofc lindens oficial answer to those issues is : buy a pbr eep
[11:32 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: "This works" but look at this shiny new stuff we got "Why'd have ta break my stuff tho"
[11:32 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: wel another thing for you to look on your viewers
[11:32 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: why is that broken.. or just that that option off
[11:32 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: take..
[11:33 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: those with fs 7.1 can test that here
[11:33 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Camp 1: People who change their land to suit the setting, Camp 2: People that just use the setting and wonder why half the regions look dark
[11:33 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: it is a old EEP setting..
[11:33 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: should have Brightness not HDR
[11:34 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: About as user friendly as making them eat their newspaper
[11:34 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that option supposelly converts brightness, etc to HDR.. and does a mess
[11:35 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Wish I had high dynamic range on my left arm to smack them over the head with
[11:35 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am increasingly getting the "As not what Vista can do for you. Ask what you can buy for Vista" feeling over SL
[11:35 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ask*
[11:35 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: xD
[11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well nothing new
[11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: sl always break things when changing
[11:35 AM PT] orbert tatham: and they don't fix them in between
[11:36 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not sure if you noticed that old windlight works better on opensim that at sl
[11:36 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: bc i made a extra efford to convert it to eep... SL jsut told Buy eep assets..
[11:36 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: except they never bothered to convert mainland
[11:37 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: thank you for that
[11:37 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: now they say buy pbr eep assets..
[11:37 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: uff
[11:37 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:38 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: in fact even our old lightshare seems to work
[11:38 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ofc they killed the moon
[11:39 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: for lindens moon is black
[11:39 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: They burnt the cheese
[11:39 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: unless if at azimuth
[11:40 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the backside of the moon is black, so there is that
[11:40 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: hmm didnt check that with this changes
[11:40 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[11:41 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well mirrors in mouselook show the back of my head :)
[11:42 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you have to position it so you get a fractal image of the back of your head
[11:42 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I guess the renderer don't do fractals
[11:42 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: nahh it is just ll broken code for you to fix :P
[11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: the mirrors are still very bad
[11:43 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Arts n crafts lol
[11:43 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: way to set the GPU on fire
[11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ohh a game 2 yrs ago was really doing that... i missed it
[11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: or 3 yrs ago..
[11:44 AM PT] orbert tatham: As it is I can't even go into a dance place in SL with more than a few people in it without overhear\ting the gpu
[11:44 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: your GPU?
[11:44 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Get more fans.
[11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no but did burn several
[11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: evga was still active and did accept there was a issue on their 3090 soldering
[11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but others did also die
[11:45 AM PT] Joe Magarac: There is a good GPU test from Unreal Engine: https://benchmark.unigine.com/valley
[11:45 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The old IBM RS/6000 machines had an error code for the LED panel that meant "the CPU is on fire"
[11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: a game from amazon
[11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: rmemeber name lyr?
[11:46 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: New World was the game
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: Yes that is it :)
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: or was
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:46 AM PT] Joe Magarac: The Valley is an Unreal Engine Game that just shows scenery,. No gameplay. It shows GPU temperature. If you GPU overheats on The Valley, you have a hardware problem.
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so.. yeah.. ll can burn your gpus also :)
[11:47 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that 10M tris hair
[11:47 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in PBR of course
[11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well seems game had some code profile that made the cpu limits not detect they where off scale
[11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: like using 600A on a 3090
[11:49 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 600A on the 5 volt rail?
[11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: worse 12V rail :)
[11:49 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: nothing uses 5v rails now
[11:49 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am sure Arm chips do
[11:49 AM PT] Bill's Chair: This is Bill's Chair
[11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: gpus and cpus get power mostly from the 12V rail
[11:50 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: Hi Cuga
[11:50 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: we
[11:50 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: *waves sorry late
[11:50 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no wories
[11:51 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: worries
[11:51 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: wel and that was before the 4090 burning houses :)
[11:51 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: ~And it burns, burns, burns~ GPU on fire~ GPU on fire~
[11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but the 4090 is a problem on connector.. nvidia should had used 2 ..
[11:52 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Aesthetics triumph over engineering you are in for a bad time
[11:53 AM PT] orbert tatham: Just ask Tesla
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeha fire is pretty :p
[11:53 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: The Graphics Prefs in the viewer need better control to restore back to non-PBR settings if somebody wants to do so, with comparable performance to pre-PBR
[11:53 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: One way to add rgb I guess
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: cuga ll does not want any non pbr settings
[11:53 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[11:54 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: on objects fs allows us to edit both
[11:54 AM PT] animatsalt resident: Bye from Sharpview alt. Off to next meeting.
[11:54 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not on ll viewer
[11:54 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Railroading everyone into new stuff so they don't have to maintain backwards compat
[11:54 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: once a object has pbr, you can't edit the otther
[11:54 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: like that did also on terrain
[11:55 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: in fact worse on terrain.. bc they don't have the non pbr information
[11:55 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sounds like from the Adobe cancel subscription play book
[11:56 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: you get there into a region using pbr terrain with 6.x viewer and you will see pretty grey terrain
[11:56 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Right. My next project for Sharpview is to redo Land, including PBR.
[11:56 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Gotta go, next meeting.
[11:56 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: as i said in previus mettings i did add that VETPBR
[11:57 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so region can send normal texures to older viewers
[11:57 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and it is working on current fs 7x
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: old terrain on new viewers looks diffent too
[11:58 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and EEP settings
[11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: besides light effect?
[11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ahh you missed the option thing
[11:58 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes the gammas seem all different
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ..
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: [11:29:40] (You): RenderSkyAutoAdjustProbeAmbiance: Probe ambiance value when auto-adjusting legacy skies
[11:29:47] (You): chage that to 0.0
[11:30:07] (You): that autoajust code is just bad in many cases
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ...
[11:59 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: might be the macOS port, who knows
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: thry that
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: try
[11:59 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thanks I will try
[11:59 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: debug prefs?
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeap
[12:00 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: So we to tell everyone to do that lol
[12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well any more opensim issues ?
[12:00 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: using old terrains
[12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: or relevant for metting?
[12:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: it is more abotu old eep settings
[12:01 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I guess old EEP settings need to each get updated
[12:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: that is the oficial ll fix: buy new ones
[12:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: :p
[12:01 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yeah like thats going to happen
[12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well rl calls me..
[12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: any other issue?
[12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ok, hope to see you all next week :)
