[11:09 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: welcome
[11:09 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: during last week we got some patches fixing more issues on pgsql, from BlueWall
[11:10 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: sadly there is at least one, he is looking into
[11:11 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: also added llDerezObject(..)
[11:12 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that allows a rezzer object to delete the objects it did rez or set them temporary for defered delete
[11:14 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: lSetCameraAtOffset() or llSetCameraEyeOffset() where on a child prim where changing the root prim one, if it had no value set, Old commit message claimed with was to match SL.. Is it was so, guess it was a SL bug long fixed
[11:14 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so now they don't mess root prim
[11:15 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: made some fixes on pbr terrain, adding default values of UUID.Zero string
[11:15 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: seems some versions of db engines needed those
[11:16 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: meanwhile been testing FS last release... and well not that great
[11:16 AM PT] orbert tatham: They have been cranking out the betas
[11:17 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: it is release now
[11:17 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The release is really going great, everyone is happy about it and it's super stable... sorry for the sarcasm
[11:17 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: SL rushed the release of pb, terrain pbr etc, for SL21B
[11:17 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and kinda forced viewers to do it
[11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: in opensim we do get more crashes that at sl
[11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: specially with clean cache..
[11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: others on teleport
[11:19 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: the tp ones also happen at SL, jsut less
[11:19 AM PT] Joe Magarac: SL users are unhappy about the increased hardware requrements for PBR.
[11:19 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah very
[11:19 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: some was expected.. but is does seem 2 much
[11:19 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I'm normally no stranger to bleeding edge stuff, but this time I just can't accept the regressions over some fancy textures that don't look all that great and totally kill viewer performance
[11:20 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: hope you cna make a better render engine
[11:20 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It's like amputating your leg to lose weight
[11:20 AM PT] Joe Magarac: SL now needs about what the average Steam user has for hardware.
[11:20 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: bc SL one seems not the beast
[11:20 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: With all the PBR features not being used off it's still slower
[11:20 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: nahh most games on Steam do need less GPU for a lot more PBR content
[11:21 AM PT] Joe Magarac: The PBR renderer does most of the work in the GPU. If you have a gamer-level GPU, it's great. If not, it's awful.
[11:21 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I have a 1080 in this machine and the performance is atrocious and I get stable 60fps in Cyberpunk on High settings, you can't compare the two
[11:21 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: hmm btw PBR does messup old EEP look a lot
[11:22 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes
[11:22 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Cyberpunk 2077 is gorgeous but there's a lot less content in there than there seems to be. The same building parts appear over and over.
[11:22 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I'd compare the graphical demand to something like Portal 2 maybe with the mirrors and all, yet the viewer does a shit job at rendering that
[11:22 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: if you set debug option "RenderSkyAutoAdjustProbeAmbiance" to 0, it does render EEP a lot more like older viewers
[11:22 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that AutoAdjust jsut seems to be a total crap
[11:23 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: You come to terms with renderer being half as good as games, but it's gotten so much worse now it just cannot keep up
[11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well and i did cover all the last week code changes :)
[11:23 AM PT] Joe Magarac: A user-created metaverse requires about 3x the GPU memory of a well optimized game.
[11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: back to the pbr.. i did walk around sl21b
[11:24 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thanks Ubit for the fast fix on lsl camera stuff
[11:24 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and really not impressed
[11:24 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Looking at just the scene complexity metrics of textures, tris count and so on I can tolerate it being half as fast, but it's much worse now
[11:25 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: also the textures LOD control is totally broken
[11:25 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: And object occlusion is as well I found out
[11:25 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: when the VRAM use gets close to the setted limit
[11:25 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I specifically made some mountains to hide things behind terrain and the viewer renders them anyways
[11:26 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well the VRAM use as the viewer sees..
[11:26 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The shadow computation is even worse. Place an object twice the distance of your view distance and it still considers it for shadows
[11:26 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: one jsut needs to let it use all the VRAM
[11:27 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I had someone complain about a dark region after they put a skybox up at 2000 meters and set their view distance to 1024
[11:27 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well tell them to change that setting i pasted before
[11:27 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I get that in Sharpview all the time. I'm not culilng the sky and all that junk shows.
[11:28 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no idea what that auto ajust is supposed to do.. just that it does it BADLY in several cases
[11:28 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Objects behind terrain not being rendered would be a start too, then that age old trick could actually improve performance
[11:28 AM PT] Joe Magarac: You mean the auto speed adjust in Firestorm?
[11:28 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no
[11:28 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: RenderSkyAutoAdjustProbeAmbiance
[11:29 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: change that to 0
[11:29 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Ah.
[11:29 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Occlusion culling is hard in a system with so much translucency.
[11:29 AM PT] Joe Magarac: In games, there's a lot of cheating.
[11:29 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ppl at sl complain eep started to get 2 much light etc..
[11:30 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well in most cases is that "autoadjust"
[11:30 AM PT] Joe Magarac: In few games can you look into a building through a window and see out the other side with another window.
[11:30 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that seems to not even see that light was sRGB and now is linear
[11:31 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well mirrors are a total mess also
[11:31 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: the probe position and orientation is super critical
[11:31 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It's funny. The culling of objects out of view doesn't work well and when you want it to not work at all, for taking a 360 screenshot it randomly culls objects xD
[11:31 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: even so, you get artifacts
[11:32 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: adn in some cases more than !GB of extra VRAM use
[11:32 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: 1GB
[11:32 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: for one simple mirror..
[11:33 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: (and im mean at sl.. )
[11:33 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: they do the same here., ofc
[11:33 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: vram doesn't grow on trees unfortunately, unless you want to hardware mod your gpu
[11:34 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: New SL premium subscription soon coming with a soldering iron and some gddr chips
[11:34 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: surface mount
[11:34 AM PT] orbert tatham: Fun stuff - I'll let someone else try that, and pay for all the ruined chips
[11:34 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: vincent.Sylvester you do not solder vram chips with a soldering iron :P
[11:35 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: very tiny tip and calm hands
[11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: you need a rework station with heater for the pcb and hot air
[11:35 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: No but you need one to adjust the resistors to supply them with current else they don't work
[11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no cuga.Rajal
[11:35 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: jk lol
[11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: they are BGA... all pins under the chips
[11:35 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: those are not serviceable LOL
[11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: tiny tine balls .)
[11:36 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: nahh ppl do replace them
[11:36 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and gpu chips
[11:37 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: I could use some suggestions to help with a problem:
[11:37 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: I have a small grid that has worked well for months, and now TPs are failing intermitently. What can cause this?
[11:37 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAKP8oSPN14
[11:37 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: People log on from different parts of the country, so we cannot blaim our local ISPs
[11:38 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: outbound or inbound?
[11:38 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: you can see several repairs there
[11:38 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: region-to-region
[11:39 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: are there any error messages in console when this happens? or message indicating somerthing didn;t match or rejected
[11:40 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: The console shows the avatar arriving, then it tomes out before it finishes.
[11:41 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: "what did we do to cause this"? We didn't even let the system update itself for a long time.
[11:42 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: internet weather is the usual thing to blame
[11:42 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: If I try to TP to the same location several times, it eventually works.
[11:42 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Internet weather is why we had people try from distant locations....
[11:43 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: regions in same OS server instance?
[11:43 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Different instances all on the same server.
[11:44 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: same hostnames?
[11:44 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: yes
[11:45 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: memory usage not pegged?
[11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: you got more neighbors and so you net is not worse :)
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: when the happens go to the street and shout "stop watching pornhub"
[11:46 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Watching it happen now, only 25% of memory in use. nobody else on grid.
[11:46 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: LOL
[11:47 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thats all I can think of. I had similar issues but it was only inbound TP from other grids and generally from OSGrid
[11:48 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Here's a few lines from the console, not the 3 minute delay:
[11:48 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: 11:44:20 - [SCENE]: Incoming child agent update for 65ca4ec1-6581-45f6-918b-adbe66917db2 in Maritime 14
11:44:28 - [SCENE PRESENCE]: Update agent Kayaker Magic at Maritime 14 did not receive agent update
11:47:15 - [AGENT HANDLER]: >>> DELETE [11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah lag
[11:48 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Lag causing a lost packet?
[11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: or failed http
[11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: agent update is actually http..
[11:49 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Not sure if it's lag. All on the home grid, nothing going over the wire
[11:49 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: lag between what and what? Opensim (in Seattle) and viewer (in California)?
[11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: the 2 regions
[11:49 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: between two instances on the same server?
[11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: somehow
[11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: [SCENE PRESENCE]: Update agent Kayaker Magic at Maritime 14 did not receive agent update [11:51 AM PT] orbert tatham: I used to get that all the time in Zetaworlds
[11:51 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I've seen the HTTP server become unresponsive and had to restart OS, but not in an intermittent way
[11:51 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Server reboot didn't fix it.
[11:51 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: restarting always fixed, but still happens occasionally after being up for a few days
[11:52 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: sounds like my issue is not the same then
[11:52 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Looking around, the CPU(s) seem very busy, some instances are using way too much...
[11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: wel it does help to have some free cpu :)
[11:52 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: busy with Dotnet?
[11:52 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: mono opensim
[11:53 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: I'll try tracking down which instances have 80% cpu and stopping those., They normally hover around 10%
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well we dropped mono sometime ago :)
[11:54 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ofc many issues stay the same with dotnet
[11:54 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: like a cpu is needed ;)
[11:55 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I have a question about mesh uploads. More of a viewer question but hoping someone knows answer
[11:56 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Go ahead Cuga, I'll keep muddling along...
[11:56 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: When I upload a larger mesh, analyze for hulls, no errors, then upload,
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Analyze works, then I click the Upload button. Sometimes I get a "File Not Found" error
[11:57 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: analyze for hulls is a big fail
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I donlt understand how to resolve
[11:57 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Gotta go, next meeting. Thanks all!
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: tc Joe
[11:57 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: cya joe
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I upload using the correct pro9cess -- simplify/Analyze
[11:57 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: viewers code to do that on opensim is bad
[11:58 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I do the right thoing with hulls, etc
[11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that is not the correct process on opensim
[11:58 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the problem is the occasional "File Not Found" error -- trying to understand
[11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: because viewers do a mess
[11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: at SL they use havoc mesh tools
[11:58 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Is there a GC that deletes the model if it takes too long? What's causing that?
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: for opensim they use a opensource lib, and the glue is BAD
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: viewers have no GC
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: we always told to not use analyse on viewers for opensim
[11:59 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I tried changin the FS debug setting MeshUploadTimeOut but that didnt seem to make a diff
[12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: it fails a LOT
[12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: in same cases viewer never stops doing it
[12:00 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Yeah sometimes I have to restart the viewer after a fail
[12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: in others is does and uploads a total crap
[12:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: as i said on viewers for SL that uses code made by ll
[12:01 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Beq has said to ALWAYS use Analyze after selecting Physics detail level
[12:01 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: for OS
[12:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: for opensim it uses code made long ago by someone and badly maintained
[12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well we alwasy told you otherwise
[12:02 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: So just try uploading without analyzing? Isn;t that bad?
[12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: in fact UbODe does not even use convex hulls
[12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: bullet does..
[12:03 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: but as i said.. problem is viewers code
[12:03 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: jsut 2 broken to be usefull
[12:03 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: agree it's viewer, just wondering if anyone knew how to resolve the File Not Found
[12:03 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that's all I had today
[12:03 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: you can and should use it on viewers compiled for SL
[12:04 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the interface is different on the SL FS
[12:04 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: bc as i said that uses code maintained by ll and payed havok mesh code
[12:04 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: havoc?
[12:04 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: keep messing the name :)
[12:04 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I think its with a k
[12:05 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so they can trademark it :)
[12:05 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:05 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: OK I;ll try uploading without analyzing.
[12:05 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: also think bullet does try to do hulls
[12:06 PM PT] Lyr Lobo smiles
[12:06 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Bullet does use hulls
[12:06 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: that is not what i said :p
[12:06 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and not very well when it's physical
[12:06 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: *try*
[12:07 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: well thats all I had
[12:07 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well bullet does its thing... its own way :)
[12:07 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ok we are past the hour
[12:08 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: any more opensim issues ?
[12:08 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: so hope to see you all next week :)
