[11:09 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I just take whatever I get :-)
[11:09 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no idea why ppl think to need more here :)
[11:09 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: 60fps is a bit easier on the eyes
[11:10 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( and electric bill is bad... )
[11:10 AM PT] Jagga Meredith: yeah, I get raster migraines
[11:10 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ha, we had negative electricity price Sunday. The more you used, the lower your bill goty
[11:10 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: got*
[11:10 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Solar ftw
[11:10 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: pff :p
[11:11 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Anyways, commits. Prep work for pbr terrain was done
[11:11 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: to be here useing more than 80W just on gpu wel... irritates :=)
[11:11 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: will next FS release support it?
[11:12 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: dayturn will also .. gaving just merged the code for it :P
[11:12 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure, sure
[11:12 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: err gaving?
[11:12 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Don't know. I am holding off on PBR for Sharpview until FS supports it.
[11:12 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: fs jsut merged it also
[11:13 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Oh, good.
[11:13 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well dunno abotu good.. lets see ;)
[11:13 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and terrain pbr was reason for most last week code changes
[11:14 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i added full very well UNTESTED support for it
[11:14 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not one important thing
[11:14 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: viewers MUST tell regions they do support terrain pbr
[11:15 AM PT] Joe Magarac: How do they do that?
[11:15 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: or they will only get normal textures
[11:15 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: they do that sending one of 2 "fake" capabilities request
[11:15 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Is this documented?
[11:16 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yes.. in code
[11:16 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and here now :P
[11:16 AM PT] Joe Magarac: That is not "documented".
[11:16 AM PT] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: ^_^
[11:16 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I assume there will be an alpha release of FS in the near future with PRB terrain support
[11:16 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: As documented as it gets things considered still not set in stone
[11:17 AM PT] Joe Magarac: which is why I am holding off. I implemented PBR once already and then it changed.
[11:17 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so.. if viewers fully support rendering even on large regions, they should request capability "VETPBR"
[11:17 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Is that Open Simulator only or SL too?
[11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: if viewers only suppport it on standard sizer regionsm, they should ask for "VTPBR"
[11:18 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: VETPBR is that something we invented?
[11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i did
[11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: :p
[11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and it is opensim only
[11:18 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sweet
[11:19 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I take it it has unintended effects on VARs
[11:19 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: PBR terrain I mean
[11:19 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Do you stretch the terrain or repeat it more?
[11:19 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so AGAIN.. "VETPBR" if they do full rendering also on large regions, and "VTPBR" if they only support it on standard size regions
[11:19 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok
[11:20 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: this is opensim only and have ti because ll did reuse the old uuids
[11:21 AM PT] Joe Magarac: The old UUIDs for default terrain textures?
[11:21 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ll servers only have the same old 4 uuids that now can mean texture or material
[11:21 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you just push that code change to Bitbucket? :-)
[11:21 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so at sl old viewers will only show grey terrain
[11:21 AM PT] Joe Magarac: SL still uses those built-in terrain UUIDs for a few regions around Da Boom.
[11:21 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: as soon regions change to materials
[11:22 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: at least Opensim will have a fallback from PBR to traditional, if this sticks with the viewers' implementations
[11:22 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I assume fallback was the reason to do it this way
[11:22 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: opensim will send normal textures for older viewers
[11:22 AM PT] Joe Magarac: OK.
[11:23 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: "4 uuids that now can mean texture or material" ... I have written some dumb code and made some seriously questionable choices, but holy expletive that is advanced stupid. Is LL completely off the rockers now?
[11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i fear a lot of people will go on using old viewers
[11:23 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Wait, the UUIDs can mean a texture or a material, depending on some capability?
[11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so, opensim will keep showing something other than grey for those
[11:24 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yes
[11:24 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Are materials fetched from the main asset system?
[11:24 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yes htey are assets
[11:24 AM PT] Joe Magarac: In SL, the asset servers?
[11:24 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: wel at SL
[11:24 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and on pbr regions
[11:25 AM PT] Joe Magarac: The SL asset servers have no idea what a UUID is for.
[11:25 AM PT] Joe Magarac: They're just AWS web servers.
[11:25 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: oh yes they do..
[11:25 AM PT] Joe Magarac: You don't even have to be logged in.
[11:25 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but you need to tell the type of asset the uuid is for
[11:26 AM PT] Joe Magarac: In the requesting URL?
[11:26 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so on new sl regions per each terrain UUID you will need to ask for a texture asset
[11:26 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and iof that fails, you need to ask for a meterial
[11:26 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: material...
[11:26 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Where is my emergency lobotomy kit...
[11:27 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thats nuts
[11:27 AM PT] Joe Magarac: What does the requesting URL look like?
[11:27 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: because CDN only replies per asset type
[11:27 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ohh that is old thing
[11:28 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: "http://asset-cdn.glb.agni.lindenlab.com/?texture_id=";
[11:28 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: "http://asset-cdn.glb.agni.lindenlab.com/?material_id=";
[11:28 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: followed by hte uuid
[11:29 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Right. That's what I use now.
[11:29 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and yes you can get things with any browser
[11:29 AM PT] Joe Magarac: So the same UUID can be used for both a texture and a material?
[11:29 AM PT] Joe Magarac: In the same login?
[11:29 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeap
[11:29 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: OpenSim it all goes through the region just with the uuid if I'm not wrong, so no idea on types, hence the problem
[11:29 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: login does not matter at sl
[11:30 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Right, login does not matter at SL.
[11:30 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no we do have same url ofc
[11:30 AM PT] Joe Magarac: right.
[11:30 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: just type mismatch only triggers a warning
[11:30 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: mny guess is that ll did split the assets store per each type
[11:30 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: we did not
[11:31 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I'm going to ask the SL devs about that at the noon meeting.
[11:31 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: nothing new on this ... is like this since tehy moved to cdn
[11:31 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and a reason why some assets are lludp only still
[11:32 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: bc with cdn , if you have the uuid you get the asset
[11:32 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: nothing new.. they are like that for years now
[11:33 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Let me get this straight. Are you claiming that the same UUID is sometimes used for different assets?
[11:33 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no i did not said that
[11:33 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i said it could be
[11:34 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ofc a very bad idea
[11:34 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: understatement of the year
[11:35 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: are there any examples they have ever done that?
[11:35 AM PT] Joe Magarac: UUIDs are random 128 bit numbers. Clashes are supposed to be so improbable that the problem can be ignored.
[11:35 AM PT] Joe Magarac: But built-in UUIDs could mess that up.
[11:36 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: They could increase the chances, although there have been a few dozen built-in uuids for years, viewer sounds, default textures, etc
[11:37 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Right, I know that list.
[11:37 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well as i said, guess they did that bc they splited the store per types
[11:38 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but can only guess
[11:38 AM PT] Joe Magarac: It's mostly legacy stuff, such as the 14 built bump maps, the 50 or so built in animations...
[11:38 AM PT] Joe Magarac: built in bump maps.
[11:38 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: they use a lot of built in uuids
[11:38 AM PT] Joe Magarac: But the four built in terrain texture UUIDs - are you saying those are also material UUIDs?
[11:40 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: It would be useful to see what the FS viewer team does with this
[11:40 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Yes.
[11:41 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I guess that is likely not far off, an uncoming alpha
[11:41 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: upcoming*
[11:41 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: UUIDs might have to be the same for properly rendering a PBR region next to a materials region without making an utter mess of it all
[11:42 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: adjoining regions!
[11:42 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: http://asset-cdn.glb.agni.lindenlab.com/?texture_id=abb783e6-3e93-26c0-248a-247666855da3 Returns jp2, material_id returns 404, hm That should be one of the default terrain textures
[11:43 AM PT] Joe Magarac: OK. As long as you don't get different content for the same UUID.
[11:44 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Unless material_id is the wrong method
[11:44 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: asset_id is 404 too
[11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: there is no asset_id
[11:44 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: This is well documented... not
[11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: now opensim will return the material if you ask texture
[11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: bc we do ignore that
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: our store is unique, and asset type is on metadata only, not search
[11:46 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Hm. How does the viewer know whether to ask for texture or material for a region?
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: it does not
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: you need ask for one, then the other
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and then check the asset type
[11:46 AM PT] Joe Magarac: OK.
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that last part is needed on opensim
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: because opensim will give you the material when you ask for the texture
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: we really only care abotu the uuid
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( we do look to type, but only generate a internal warning )
[11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: a reaon is that we have a ton of assets wtih type messed up..
[11:48 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Oh.
[11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: old ones but in use
[11:49 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Oh, before I go, there's a new Sharpview: http://animats.com/sharpview/releases/release-0.8.0.html
[11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: also changed the code tell viewers to allow 2k textures
[11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and mirrors
[11:49 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It technically gets even more complicated if you actually wanted to do like SL and use the direct asset server connection you'd have to implement a fallback to the region asset connector for the cases of dynamic textures being local to a simulator
[11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[11:49 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Which would be really neat to have not gonna lie
[11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: keeping assets services local to regions gives us a extra security check
[11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and ofc needed for local textures anmd assets
[11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: only some grids like osgrid do expose assets the same way sl does now
[11:51 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well and those where the code changes of last week, basicly
[11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: only now we can staet to test
[11:52 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Could always secure that with some session secrets or something, but that is more security theater than actual security too
[11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well and when we go get some nice pbr for terrain
[11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: the sl examples are just ugly imo
[11:53 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Lyr
[11:53 AM PT] Lyr Lobo waves hello
[11:53 AM PT] Lyr Lobo grins
[11:53 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Just changing the default terrain textures for 1024 ones makes a big difference not sure why pbr was needed for terrain even
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: last week i tolda few things about tim patch to FS
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that was not correct
[11:53 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: how many regions have they deployed PBR textures to yet?
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: what tim patch does is only to allow Z to be > -100m
[11:54 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: on rendering
[11:54 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: the fact it does have diferent light below 0 is just a side effect of z [11:55 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not by explict code on the patch as i kinda told, since was told that
[11:55 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: anyways for now it is working..
[11:55 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no idea abotu future
[11:56 AM PT] Joe Magarac: OK.
[11:56 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: We are now a few minutes before the top of the hour. Are there any questions or comments related to something other than PBR or textures?
[11:57 AM PT] animatsalt resident: Bye, next meeting.
[11:57 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: bye Joe
[11:57 AM PT] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: Cya Joe
[11:57 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, animatsalt. Thanks for dropping by.
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: tc Joe
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Just wondering if Nonja Physics is still supported on ubODE
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Ninja*
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: is an old thing
[11:57 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no
[11:58 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: kk
[11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: removed long ago
[11:59 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I did push the xunit stuff to Ubit yesterday for a preliminary review and more brainstorming regarding what to do about tests going forward
[11:59 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It's not pretty, but it works
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: oops
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: man do that via mantis :)
[11:59 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: ;P I will
[12:00 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I did do some more work on it today, but realistically has to ship with project files unless someone wants to add test type projects to prebuild.exe
[12:00 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I did try to add that again, but that code is too abstract for my poor brain
[12:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: you add those to prebuild,xml not .exe :p
[12:01 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The project files for the tests are platform independent at least
[12:01 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I can build them both on win and nix
[12:02 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Pretty barebones stuff just defining them as tests and that's it really so I just included them with powershell and bash scripts
[12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: outch
[12:02 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: They compile now and you can run them and get results back. I still have to work out how to stuff that into the result xmls we used to have
[12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: and github tests ?
[12:03 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: you forgot those, right ?
[12:03 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: :P
[12:04 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: As much as I'm a fan of github their pipeline and tests leave something to be desired and you have no control over where those go. One day they might just paywall it or something
[12:04 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: With xunit or local tests at least have some control over it, if not much that much more
[12:04 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or AI the shit out of it
[12:04 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well to run all the tests we had, you would need to start paying github time
[12:05 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: it is payed already.. we just have X free minutes per month
[12:05 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Taking old nunit test and telling AI to write it into an xunit one... that did not work by a long shot
[12:05 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I was lazy enough to try that already
[12:05 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:07 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: in our old jenkins we did run tests on every commit, as it should be..
[12:07 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ofc i had to comment out a ton, so it would finish them in 10 minutes :)
[12:08 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: To think I did a ton of work fixing those to make them work again now all for nought grrr
[12:08 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah that nought is a bad guy..
[12:09 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Trusting MS not to rug pull, jokes on me I guess
[12:10 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ofc great coders don't need safty nets like CI...
[12:10 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: :p
[12:10 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: safety...
[12:10 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:10 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Any final comments for today?
[12:11 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see signs of anyone typing so I'll take that as a no.
[12:11 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
[12:11 PM PT] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: Thank you...
