Chat log from the meeting on 2024-02-13

From OpenSimulator

Jump to: navigation, search
[12:08 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: Welcome
[12:08 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: Andrew will not join us today and possible in next few weeks, because he lost his mother :(
[12:09 PM PT]  Motoko.Karu :(
[12:09 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Very sorry to hear that
[12:09 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird sorry to hear that
[12:09 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal me too
[12:09 PM PT]  Motoko.Karu deepest condolences
[12:10 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well abotu last code changes..
[12:11 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird I see LL is adding Lua script support
[12:11 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i made some on lludp throttles.  Joe was requesting some large bandwidth and code was misbehaving on that
[12:12 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: thanks Joe :)
[12:13 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i also did all code so support LInkSetData,  ie a strings storage visible by all scripts on a linkset
[12:13 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: you may remember i do not like that at all,  but people ask..  so.. well i added it, tell untested
[12:13 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I still think that is a bad idea on many levels given how flawed the idea is
[12:14 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Welcome, Jamie!
[12:14 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: Mike Chase had also offered is implementation on his fork, on one of this meetings last year.
[12:15 PM PT]  Jamie.Jordan Hi everybody
[12:15 PM PT]  Motoko.Karu waves
[12:15 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird hi
[12:16 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ofc i made my own version, based on the patch on mantis 9081 by     zontreck and Mike's code also based on that
[12:16 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Great to see you
[12:16 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: as i say on that mantis:
[12:17 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: some spec diferences:

- Memory is counted as native uft-16 chars not utf8 bytes.
- Memory limit is reduced to 32K utf-16 chars (2 bytes per char so 64KB), configurable on opensim.ini
- Events are not sent if size of their data exceeds the script heap memory limit (scripts may still crash depending on current heap usage)

- dotnet regex used on pattern based functions is not as sl so some patterns may give different results.

linksetdata is a part of SceneObjectGroup not SceneObjectPart, where only root part would get it

at time of write, the data is not saved. Save and serialization will be added later, after some testing
[12:17 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ..."
[12:18 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i did some work on a simple binray serializer for it, but sill not ready to commit
[12:18 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester That now raises the question about hypergrid, because between that and pbr sending content between versions will be problematic. I'd vote for changing the version to prevent data loss
[12:18 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: heard that
[12:19 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well that is a problem intrinsic to HG and its multiple versions and forks
[12:20 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ofc my serialized is also not same as mike is using,  because i do not like the idea of store Json inside xml :)
[12:20 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: serializer...
[12:20 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: in this cases, data loss may happen on a full round trip
[12:21 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: we can add extra checks on teleports, blocking tp if soemone is wearing pbr ..
[12:21 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but that is not a sustainable thing to do..
[12:22 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Way I understand it is that you cannot teleport or send data to newer hg versions so incrementing that would be the option
[12:22 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: linksetdata is actually part of scripts
[12:22 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Let content flow back but not forward
[12:22 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and those also do not survice HG
[12:23 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: most do require full compile..
[12:23 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and ofc old versions miss a lot of LSL and OSSL things.. so will not work anyways
[12:24 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester That's a given though and more easily fixed by recompile or rewriting scripts, but pbr content is a bit harder to fix and linksetdata is impossible to manipulate unless you know
[12:24 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester pbr you can see I suppose, but linksetdata is hidden
[12:24 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so yeah.. it is just a old problem of HG, just getting a bit worse
[12:25 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: vincent same as all the new LSL functions we added in time
[12:25 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird I see LL is adding Lua script support
[12:25 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: all those will break
[12:25 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I heard that. Where's the link?
[12:25 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm have no plans to do that
[12:25 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: now lua.. then mars.. then sun.. Nahhh
[12:26 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( lua is moon is pt )
[12:26 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird it is in some commits on the helpcmd branch
[12:26 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Lua is, in my opinion, awful compared to LSL, yeah I did just say that
[12:26 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: anyone still uses it?
[12:26 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird and luau-scripting
[12:26 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: hehe Wow for our addons
[12:26 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: had idea python had killed all that
[12:26 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: about 10,000 of them
[12:27 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: World of warcraft for the non-gamers
[12:27 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I'd take python over lua any day
[12:27 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird I think the COOL VL viewer have had it for some time, but I guess it requires backend support
[12:27 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well ll thins are made in c  ,. they can just add and lib and glue
[12:27 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester They are evidently then sniffing the glue too
[12:28 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: if there is any lua engine in c# im sure it is pretty bad.. so.. nahh
[12:28 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeah they are smoking worse things this days...
[12:28 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester If anyone wants it they can add it, script engines are modules in the end
[12:28 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ;)
[12:29 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: it is a huge waste of time really
[12:29 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and No real gain
[12:29 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird I have no idea why they would want to add that
[12:29 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird is that some Xbox thing too?
[12:29 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Me either.
[12:30 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well script engines are server side...
[12:30 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I think the Lua thing is all viewer side. Not sure.
[12:30 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: unless they want to add scripts also to viewer :)
[12:30 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Lua is said to be easy to learn and widespread in games, I know a few that support it, but it is usually slow and limited
[12:30 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: it is a client side addon in WoW
[12:30 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird hmmm, ok
[12:31 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well but our viewers are not as wow..
[12:31 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Possible they want to add it to make it easier for people to pick things up, which speaks of desperation to get new users in
[12:31 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: it does a great job of customizing our interfaces and providing useful data fast in the World of Warcraft... 19 years now
[12:31 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: viewer side script changing world thigns would be a big mess
[12:31 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I'll ask at the next meeting. SL server dev meeting follows this one.
[12:31 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird please do
[12:32 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well think i did cover last week code changes :)
[12:32 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Lua script to make the viewer interface vomit green to go along with logging into a public sandbox lol
[12:33 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hope they will add tcl also
[12:33 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: will not...
[12:33 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: :p
[12:33 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird :-)
[12:34 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird MS is adding sudo to Windows, so...
[12:34 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester They are also still pushing their "AI" nonsense
[12:34 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I swear lately following tech news is making me cringe so much I'll crack a tooth
[12:35 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird and the next big update to Win 11, cuts out support for a number of processors because of that
[12:35 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Oh, minor problem. Now that region crossings are working in Sharpview on OSgrid, I  found what may be a bug. I had a failed region crossing and logged out. When I logged back in, the "last" position was off-region, which caused a region cross to start too soon. Probably good to clip the starting position at login/teleport to sim bounds.
[12:35 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: isn't that viewer side?
[12:36 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: No, sim knows what "last" is.
[12:36 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Sim sets position at login.
[12:36 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird it does
[12:36 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: err ok grid may
[12:37 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Strange don't think I have ever experienced that after a crash with another viewer
[12:38 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird I can't say I have been placed at an off grid position ever, no
[12:38 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: It's a hard situation to create. I can't make it happen again now that Ubit fixed it so that the UDP throttle can't go negative.
[12:38 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester It should clamp position to region size, if you try to teleport someone using console to an off-region position it slams them into the region border
[12:39 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird the viewer code did some interesting things if you were teleported to location 0,0 , but that has been guarded in code now
[12:39 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Right. I suspect a hole around "Last", though.
[12:39 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: viewers do ask for start location
[12:39 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: The viewer can ask, but the sim decides, after checking permissions, obstacles, etc.
[12:40 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird they have to, the avatyar can have been logged in elsewhere meantime and be way off where the viewer thinks it might be
[12:40 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I have several times had myself crash on a TP or sim crossings and been moved left in the void
[12:41 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: nm seen it
[12:41 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Most times I have crashed on crossing I was back in the region before I crashed not in the one I was crossing into
[12:41 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Yes, most of the time
[12:41 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester It writing last position off region in the first place seems weird
[12:41 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham But at times I end up a km off the side of the grid
[12:42 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Anyway, some bounds checks in that area would not be a bad idea.
[12:42 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird does that happen for standard regions or only for vars?
[12:43 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Thing is adding more and more ifs in places to prevent bad data slows down processing as well, may just be a few ns here and there, but it adds up
[12:43 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird sure does
[12:43 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Not for a check that's once per login.
[12:44 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester There should already be a sanity check for region coordinates though, checking to make sure they are positive
[12:44 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Else you get NaN and clamp to 0,0 then fall to void
[12:44 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I was in positive coordinates for a region that did not exist
[12:45 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Likely not clamped to region size on server end that yeah
[12:45 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird offline or was not defined on the grid?
[12:45 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: When you go off the edge of a region, for a moment, you have coordinates that are off region. Region crosses trigger at 1m off the edge.
[12:45 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: It's not at all uncommon to e a few meters past that before the region crossing kicks in.
[12:45 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: to be
[12:46 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham When I crashed, I was in an ocean region next to a nothing region. I came back in to a black screen and couldn't do anything.
[12:46 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird yes but if the region does not exist it should not be even possible to cross to it
[12:46 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: position = pinfo.LastPosition;
position.X = Util.Clamp(position.X, 0.2f, region.RegionSizeX - 0.2f);
position.Y = Util.Clamp(position.Y, 0.2f, region.RegionSizeY - 0.2f);
lookAt = pinfo.LastLookAt;
[12:47 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: opensim does not trigger crossings 1m from edge..
[12:47 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well not that i remember :)
[12:47 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Oh, what's the threshold?
[12:47 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: edge i think
[12:47 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: If you do it at 0, being right on top of a region edge is troublesome.
[12:48 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: look above :)
[12:48 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i avoid 0 also
[12:48 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: when is that applied?
[12:48 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well fine..
[12:48 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: position.X = Util.Clamp(position.X, 0.5f, region.RegionSizeX - 0.5f);
position.Y = Util.Clamp(position.Y, 0.5f, region.RegionSizeY - 0.5f);
[12:49 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ohh in a few years all grids should have it..
[12:49 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: OK.
[12:49 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird :-)
[12:49 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: osgrid...  well mb in a few weeks, monthes
[12:49 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: months
[12:49 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: OK.
[12:50 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I'm trying to find the hard cases in region crossings, so I hit stuff like this. The usual cases work OK in Sharpview now.. For both OS and SL.
[12:50 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: you got that problme on regiosn with bullet or ubode?
[12:51 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I've only tested at ubittest and Vincent's test region.
[12:51 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: No non-OSgrid locations.
[12:51 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: strenge how region did store a location outsife its bounds..  but well
[12:51 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Mine was ubode
[12:51 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: brb
[12:51 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: did store on grid i mean
[12:51 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Can't prevent all the edge cases, gotta figure out what the most likely ones are. Some stuff is so rare and strange it'll just fail, which is usually not the end of the world either
[12:52 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird you can test in my non-OSG regions
[12:52 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Any bad data in user accounts, inventory or presence can stop logins dead for example. Can test for some, but if viewers are not being weird it shouldn't be an issue in the first place
[12:53 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Looking at you Kirsten
[12:53 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird Kirsten viewers are active still?
[12:54 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Last version has been a year ago or so, broke inventory, so a no-go for OpenSim at least
[12:54 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird that was fast Ubit ;-)
[12:54 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel was simple :)
[12:57 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Well, have to go; next meeting.
[12:57 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so, adding to recent code changes..  i added a check to the login last location, making sure it is withing region
[12:57 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:58 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Vincent, just curious, can bad data in user accounts, inventory or presence affect certain HG accounts from TPing in?
[12:58 PM PT]  animatsalt resident: Bye. (animatsalt is Joe Magarac's alt in Sharpview)
[12:59 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester In user accounts it might based on the srv urls, but those prevent logins as well, so if they are bad the person couldn't even login to teleport in the first place
[12:59 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal ah ok.. I was thinking acvcounts on other grids TPing in
[12:59 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal but can't TP
[12:59 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal while others can
[1:00 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Check the logs on which part it stops, that usually gives a hint
[1:00 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal possible that something needs to be cleared in DB?
[1:00 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I've watched it on the console over and over
[1:00 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Most times it's a failure in useragent service not establishing connection
[1:01 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Server version mismatch?
[1:01 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Recent versions care very little about that, 8.x can move to 9.x most times
[1:02 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester That it is specific users is odd
[1:02 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal The problems are generally OSGrid accounts TPing to my grid. But some OSGrid accounts can TP ok so my grid isn;t blacklisted
[1:03 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal and is always the same people
[1:03 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Depending on account age who knows what data is left behind in there. It can also be a viewer thing. First thing to test, have them make new accounts and try. If it fails then it's with their viewer or computer going haywire
[1:03 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal so was wondering if iys possible there is some corrupt record in DB for them
[1:04 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I don't see how, but given what osg database probably looks like I am not ruling it out either
[1:04 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird I guess these are from attached sims where they have their own database for the attached regions?
[1:04 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal ah ok. I was thinking of a problem for my grid's db not OSG
[1:04 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal something I could fix
[1:05 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: not sure how old are some regions in osgrid
[1:05 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird ancient
[1:05 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester On your end all the data you have on hg users is griduser table, think that's the only place relevant data is kept. The other stuff is temporary hg data that gets nuked regularly automatically
[1:06 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal so if I find their HG avatar listed there I could clear out that record
[1:06 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I'll try that
[1:06 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal thanks
[1:07 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester There is that temporary data in another table hg traveling data or something, but that should not have relevance, think you can nuke that as well if you want to clear all data out
[1:07 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal ah ok, good to know
[1:08 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I'll check that too
[1:09 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird isn't hg_traveling_data only for gird users out traveling?
[1:10 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Possible, don't think I ever paid attention to that table or what's in it
[1:10 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal easy enough to check for their avatar name or uuid
[1:12 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal thanks
[1:12 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Though even if you find that it has to be user data on osg end, getting that resolved is different matter
[1:12 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Someone has to edit db manually then
[1:13 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal thanks again.. I do need to head out..
[1:13 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: have fun :)
[1:13 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Take care everybody
[1:13 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: bye Cuga
[1:13 PM PT]  Motoko.Karu bye Cuga
[1:13 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Take care
[1:13 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird bye
[1:13 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel we are also pass he hour
[1:13 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird Yes, I should head back too
[1:13 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: any more opensim issues?
[1:14 PM PT]  Jagga Meredith: Two storey office/school building outiside.  Feel free to copy
[1:15 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird cool
[1:15 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird prim build?
[1:15 PM PT]  Jagga Meredith: yeah
[1:15 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird good
[1:15 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird I need to get going
[1:15 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird see you in a week
[1:15 PM PT]  Motoko.Karu neat... thank you. ^_^
[1:15 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: bye Gavin
[1:16 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird cheers
[1:16 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: I'm off too...have a great week, everyone and Happy Valentine's Day
[1:16 PM PT]  Motoko.Karu guess I'm doing the same.. take care
[1:16 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: see you later, Motoko
[1:16 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham See you all later
[1:16 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: bye Orbert!
Personal tools
About This Wiki