Chat log from the meeting on 2024-02-06

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[12:07 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger Gavin
[12:07 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham *Hey
[12:07 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[12:07 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger Orbert
[12:08 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Heya,, Jamie, i'm in your seat *grins*
[12:08 PM PT]  Jamie.Jordan Hi everybody
[12:08 PM PT]  Jamie.Jordan no Worries
[12:08 PM PT]  Jamie.Jordan :-)
[12:08 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Hello, Andrew
[12:09 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger hi Andrew
[12:10 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Due to an ongoing family illness I may not be available to chair these meetings over the next month or two.
[12:10 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger hi vincent
[12:10 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I will be here if/when I can.
[12:10 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird sorry to hear that
[12:12 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Family comes first, we can manage
[12:13 PM PT]  Jamie.Jordan yep very spry to hear
[12:13 PM PT]  Jamie.Jordan sorry
[12:14 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Let's see what we had... some more pbr changes, a fix for campbot that I think was reported on mantis and some fixes to parcel name and descriptions being correct length
[12:15 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester A libomv update as well
[12:15 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Doesn't seem to be much to report code wise. I don't see any changes unless the code is being developed on a new branch I haven't checked out.
[12:15 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger did unity folk trip over the opensim ethernet cable at the weekend, thanks kayaker!
[12:15 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird were the libomv changes pushed to bitbucket?
[12:15 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I assume, didn't check yet
[12:16 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester If not I guess they will be soon now that I said that xD
[12:16 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird :-)
[12:20 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I'm still struggling to get Sharpview to do region crossings in Open Simulator. What works for SL doesn't work for OS. Detailed log: Log in with username "devs", passworld "thread". Most UUIDs in logs have been censored.
[12:20 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i did not update libomv sources still
[12:20 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: First crossing, OK.
[12:20 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Second crossing, not quite right.
[12:21 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Third crossing, agent never appears in new region.
[12:21 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Stuck.
[12:21 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: dunno Joe.. those are working a lot better than that on the other viewers
[12:22 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Of course. I'm doing something different, But what?
[12:22 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and by crossing you mean, a avatar, a object or a avatar sitting on a object?
[12:22 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Remember OpenSim does not send all update types, some terse updates are not sent
[12:22 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: simple avatar.
[12:22 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: No vehcile.
[12:22 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Ubittest -> ubittest2 and back.
[12:22 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Very quiet region.
[12:22 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: see no fails at all on that
[12:23 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Are you looking at the sim-side logs that match the times on my logs, yesterday?
[12:23 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: sorry i didn't
[12:23 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hard to decode your logs :)
[12:24 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: There's some explaination on that page.
[12:24 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: From (x,y) and To (x,y) show message and event traffic.
[12:24 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I set you up two regions for testing last week, Sharpview and Sharpview2, they are not far from here even
[12:25 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester If you test on those I can send you the logs
[12:25 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Though I suspect there won't be much info in those unless I re-enable a bunch of commented debug log
[12:25 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: OK. Then I need to learn how o read opensim logs.
[12:25 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Is there any capability I must call on entry to a new region?
[12:26 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird probably a good idea ;-)
[12:26 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well you need access to the region machine to read those
[12:26 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( or be god )
[12:27 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: There's something I need to be doing to get the new region to fully accept the region cross. But I don't know what it is.
[12:27 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: The UDP handshakes all look fine. CrossedRegion, etc.
[12:27 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: you chould have a child connection already set on crossings
[12:28 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: even so , other viewers do register caps again
[12:28 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Both regions are fully live and visibile through all this.
[12:28 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i think
[12:28 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Perhaps not closing the old region out properly still thinking you are in there or something
[12:28 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( then on region i do cheat and give them the same..  shhh don't tell :P )
[12:29 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I get the caps for the region, but don't call many of them,. because avatar appearance isn't impelmeneted yet.
[12:29 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: only need to keep event cap alive
[12:29 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Event cap is working.
[12:29 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( well do need to register )
[12:29 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Both regions are running a successful event poller.
[12:30 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Both regions are talking UDP and pinging.
[12:30 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Both regions are visible on screen in Sharpview.
[12:30 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel don't know..  it is a bit hard to debug all that
[12:30 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: What's missing are object updates when the avatar has crossed a region boundery for the third time.
[12:31 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( and need to remember all of it)
[12:31 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: what object updates?
[12:31 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: ObjectUpdate messages.
[12:31 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: you already have them as child
[12:31 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: OK, this may be important.
[12:31 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: or you mean the avatar ones?
[12:31 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Right, the avatar's object updates.
[12:31 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well they are sent..
[12:32 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: When the avatar enters a new region, the veiwer gets a full set of object updates for allt the avatar's parts.
[12:32 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: for avatar and attachments possible
[12:32 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: The viewer notices that the object UUID is a duplicate of the one in the old region and kills it in the old region.
[12:33 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( and may get for others than meanwhile did became visible )
[12:33 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I'm not getting the ObjectUpdate for the avatar's root prim, so that isn't happening.
[12:33 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: avatar is root of itself
[12:33 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Correctx.
[12:33 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Correct.
[12:34 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: the objectupdate even has dif format from the prims one
[12:34 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: objectupdate message i mean
[12:34 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Same length.
[12:34 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Decodes OK.
[12:35 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: no not really
[12:35 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Matches the template.
[12:35 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Oh, you mean the "long form". That's handled.
[12:35 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: There are two lengths of ObjectUpdate's "data" area.
[12:35 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Got that.
[12:36 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: And more new ones coming from SL.
[12:36 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: as part of PBR materials.
[12:36 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: But that's not the issue here.
[12:37 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Does anybody really understand the protocols really well?
[12:37 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: That's a good question
[12:37 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Given how your project is going I have doubts even LL does
[12:37 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: there are several "objectupdate" messages
[12:38 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: they are decoded using their size
[12:38 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: some even have 16bit precision...
[12:38 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: The size of the "data" field, yes. Got that worked out long ago.
[12:38 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: we only use 32bit and 2 variants.. objects and avatars
[12:39 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Those 16-bit ones are never sent by SL, either. I don't implement them and would log an error if they appeared.
[12:39 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeah legacy..
[12:39 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I think they were dropped when TerseImprovedObjectUpdate, for movement, was added.
[12:39 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: But that's not the trouble spot.
[12:40 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I'm not getting ANY object updates for the agent after the third region cross.
[12:40 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: From either region.
[12:40 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: So I suspect I missed some handshake step that OS cares about but SL does not.
[12:40 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: possible :(
[12:41 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: In SL, I can walk an avatar back and forth across a region boundary with no problems in SHarpview.
[12:41 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Even right across a region corner.
[12:41 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: In OS, it fails on the third crossing, every time.
[12:41 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: This is driving me nuts.
[12:41 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: :(
[12:42 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Something is different in OS. But what?
[12:42 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Third crossing? I thought it was when you moved back into the region you initially came from
[12:42 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester So you can move into a new region and back and then it fails?
[12:42 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: took us ages to make that work with the other viewers :)
[12:42 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Yes.
[12:42 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: bullet regions still fail
[12:43 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well fail more...
[12:43 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Works fine with Firestorm.
[12:43 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: It's me.
[12:43 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: But I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing that I am not doing.
[12:43 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Some UDP message?
[12:43 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Some capability.
[12:43 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Fail rate is 100%. This is solid.
[12:43 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeah and dayturn..  etc, even old ones ppl still use like singularity
[12:44 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: at least you can repo it :)
[12:44 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I suspect that OS is relying on something the C   viewers just happen to do for legacy reasons.
[12:44 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: And I'm all new code in Sharpview.
[12:44 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: So I miss stuff ilke that sometimes.
[12:45 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: erll fear we may need to spent a few hours on my test grid, me looking to region in debug more
[12:45 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: mode
[12:45 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Like, maybe there's some cap I have to read, even though I don't need the data.
[12:45 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I agree, Ubit.
[12:45 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: We can do that at some time conveneient to you.
[12:46 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I'm "".
[12:46 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: cna't be here.. my regions here are on linux and im blind on linux.. well more blind :)
[12:46 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger apologies
[12:46 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: you work on linux or win?
[12:46 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger i have to get back
[12:47 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Linux.
[12:47 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester It's why I set you up regions so Ubit can fiddle with pbr some more xD
[12:47 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: There is wireshark if you really want to go down a rabbit hole
[12:47 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeack
[12:47 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: that is a pin
[12:47 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger tc everyone
[12:47 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: our wingridproxy is a lot nicer
[12:47 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger may the voice be with you!
[12:47 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but..  a pain on linux also
[12:48 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I can build Sharpview for Windows, and do.
[12:48 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Mac almost works.
[12:49 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and and compile our libopenmetaverse is still a bit trick now ( wingridproxy is part of it )
[12:49 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird why is it getting tricky?
[12:49 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Has wgp gotten any more reliable than I remember it being?
[12:49 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: OK, Ubit, if we can try this with you wathcing yhour regions, please p ick a time?
[12:50 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: the probuild still does not set the project for windows as it wants to use forms
[12:50 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so need to fix the project files by hand, still
[12:51 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I can write you some bash/batch scripts for that
[12:51 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: prebuild, i mean
[12:51 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Had to do the same for xunit since prebuild doesn't know that either
[12:52 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Makes me wonder if I should not just redo prebuild in bash/batch entirely, might be simpler to edit down the line
[12:53 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well some ppl stoped using prebuild and do ship the project files
[12:53 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but that is a bigger pain, realy
[12:55 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester It is not all that common not to, but I get why it is done. Though they are just text files so editing them after the fact to fix issues with bash/batch is not the end of the world
[12:55 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Fixing prebuild is a bigger pain, for me at least
[12:55 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird oh, MS has announced they drop Mac support for Visual studio from Aug 2024.  So there is that too...
[12:55 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Just adding a sorting to it to prevent addon modules from becoming the startup project already broke my brain
[12:55 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: oh?
[12:56 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird will still suport dotnet
[12:56 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Shocked, I say, I am Shocked...
[12:56 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Never been an Apple fan, but they are getting really bad treatment lately, undeservably so
[12:57 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird and there was also some issues with the latest Visual Studio Code dropping support for a widely used Ubuntu server version that has caused a bit of a stir
[12:57 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Micro$haft is still a monopoly and acting like it
[12:57 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird ideed
[12:58 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I was trying to use VSC to compile C# code for another project. I haven't been able to get it to find some of the libraries it needs.
[12:59 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird probalby on purpsoe
[12:59 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird to make you grab for a paid-for version
[1:00 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester All that just to gain the upper market cap, sigh
[1:01 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Everyone hates Microsoft, even us Windows users
[1:01 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[1:01 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: We have just gotten to the top of the hour. Does anyone have a question/comment before we start losing people to RL?
[1:02 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Have a great week
[1:03 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see anyone typing so I will call this meeting to a close. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
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