[12:09 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: welcome.. :)
[12:09 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: Gavin about the status of Dayturn: 1) did you ever add the pre-processor? 2) does it have PBR? 3) do you build a Linux version?
[12:09 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: answer to all of those are no :-)
[12:09 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: Good to know.
[12:09 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: having a dejavu thinbg
[12:09 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:09 PM PT] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: ^_^
[12:09 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: why is iot good?
[12:09 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it*
[12:10 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it most likely will have PBR but not right now
[12:10 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: hmm pre processor on lsl ?
[12:10 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: Good to know that I don't have to go looking into Dayturn right away.
[12:10 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: Yes, I use the Firestorm LSL pre-processor a lot.
[12:10 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: pbr should have a bit more work...
[12:11 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: unless you have a Mac there isn't much to look for for Opensim yet
[12:11 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have basically done nothing since the end of November because of all kinds of persoanl interruptions
[12:11 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: rendering of current eep settings on it is a bit bad
[12:12 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: specialy water
[12:12 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are some fixed in the pipeline for that for the next LL main
[12:12 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maint*
[12:13 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: but also other settings.. this region sky would need changes on HDR(brightness and halo, to get a look similar to non pbr
[12:13 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well sl is same
[12:13 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is also another potential disruption ahead
[12:13 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://community.secondlife.com/blogs/entry/14834-moving-from-jira-pt-1
[12:13 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: no idea why they think that new midday is anygood
[12:14 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL is closing JIIRA
[12:14 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and as far as I can understand the new system there is no particular link to the actual code development
[12:14 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: oh?
[12:15 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it might be very difficult to figure out what the flow of changes actually are , because the git repositoy only tells half the story
[12:15 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: there tehy say the jira software is gone
[12:15 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: standalone server is gone
[12:15 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: guess that may impact firestorm that also uses it
[12:15 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and the hosted version cannot handle the number of users they have
[12:16 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so they must move to something
[12:16 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: do they use the LL instance?
[12:16 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: oh? does not handle the users they have, now that they have less?
[12:16 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: no idea what they use,, just it is jira :)
[12:17 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: like https://jira.firestormviewer.org/browse/FIRE-33573
[12:17 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: one about pbr issues on opensim
[12:17 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have a jira I pay $10 per month for, but I would think FS pay a lot more
[12:18 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well i don't use ll jira that much..
[12:18 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: since they moved hard into githubg, guess makes sense they use it also for reports
[12:19 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL often just pubish they have fixed BUG123456 whatever, and you have to dig it out of the jira to find out what was fixed, what changes, how to repro and so on
[12:19 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sounds like all that might go away to some internal system
[12:19 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well some of those are restricted access :)
[12:19 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that too
[12:20 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it is just another stupid disruption
[12:20 PM PT] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everybody
[12:20 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: but they say they are mving to that feedabck portal
[12:20 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Jamie
[12:20 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: wonder if they lose all the jira history
[12:21 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is exactly that, a feedback portal for end users
[12:21 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no idea
[12:21 PM PT] Joe Magarac: LL people say they are moving the JIRA history over. So far, it's not there.
[12:21 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they may just run it for themselves behind a FW
[12:22 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: their instance will still run, but it will not get any updates or patches
[12:22 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: that is good also means no new unknown bugs ;)
[12:23 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-))
[12:23 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: btw those opensim devs did not add any new code during last week, again :(
[12:24 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: how dare they not?
[12:24 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: oh there was a little chanage for pbr
[12:25 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ee sky has a new setting for reflection probe value
[12:25 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: i did add it with the same default viewers apply on old ones
[12:26 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: i did revert that, adding nothing.. so a viewer cna use that to identify a non pbr one and do proper convertion
[12:26 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: back to my onw viewer dev, since I only compile and test the Windows version in a VMware VM, it does not run PBR at all, so I don't know how to get it tested
[12:26 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not going to buy any kit that runs Windows only
[12:27 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: currently they do apply some kinda of autosetting.. , convert brightness to HDR and display reflection probe as 0
[12:27 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: but if we go and set that again to 0, viewer changes ...
[12:27 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: stops doign that auto thing and using HDR
[12:28 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: soemthing very confusin
[12:28 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: and doing that we get just a sky broken in a diferent way
[12:29 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: no idea why this went into produtiin as is at sl
[12:29 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: prodution...
[12:29 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: necessary to push their Xbox project
[12:29 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: but whatever.. this helmet does look nice on it
[12:30 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: fear they will just decide that ppl will need to fix eep and older contents
[12:30 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if they are doing the mobile thing with Unity, it might need PBR too
[12:30 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: I have FS 6.6.14.69596 and I can see textures on the helmet!
[12:30 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Mobile is in alpha test. There are users under an NDA.
[12:30 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: that is bc i did apply textures for older viewers
[12:31 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: something pbr viewers even make harder to do
[12:31 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: once a prim has pbr they hide the other material settings
[12:31 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there was large rant that if you had applied PBR there was no revert possible
[12:31 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: think unity uses other flavor of pbr
[12:32 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: with more settings..
[12:32 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: I wondered why I didn't see any metalicity stuff on the helmet...
[12:32 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: like unreal
[12:32 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think so too Ubit
[12:32 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeap kay i just added by hand the based color texture of pbr as difuse one
[12:33 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: something we all need to do, so prims can be seen on non pbr viewers
[12:34 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so if you have no copy items and wrongly apply PBR, the item is basically ruined
[12:34 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: and as i said something ll just forget.. once we ad pbr we cannot set the older material settings
[12:35 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: that is bad.. thing viewers for opensim should allow those to be set still
[12:35 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: bc many will not be able ( or want) to run a pbr viewer
[12:35 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: plus as I said the possibility of ruining items
[12:36 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well pbr has different store, slhuild not mess up the older material setting
[12:37 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ofc once set a pbr viewer will only show that
[12:37 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well no idea why this is so broken
[12:38 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: half assed implementation - they have sort of said they will fix it
[12:38 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: sure rendering engine supporting pbr is different from the old one
[12:39 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: but the model that did define EEP settings ( soem jsut from windlight) shoul be convertible to that engine
[12:39 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: lots of code changes in the viewer to handle it, possibly more backed changes than we know of too
[12:39 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: backend*
[12:39 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well we did make unreal display those materials..
[12:39 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: joe is doing it
[12:40 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: on engines that support pbr
[12:40 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well wahtever,, work in progress i guess
[12:41 PM PT] Joe Magarac: I can't do reflections. The underlying Rend3/WGPU system doesn't support that yet.
[12:41 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: on that jira a new issue did resurface on fs, and ll derivatives
[12:41 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: some prims fail to render until clicked
[12:41 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: or we zoom full out and back in
[12:42 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: seems to happen also at sl.. a bit more at opensim
[12:42 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: so a alert for those adding ll code :)
[12:42 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: like full out to draw distance limit and back?
[12:42 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[12:43 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok...
[12:43 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: fun changing the draw distance does not make them show up
[12:43 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: and ofc random...
[12:43 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sounds like fun, hehe
[12:43 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[12:43 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: greto to debug
[12:43 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[12:44 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: wel so far 0.9.3 pbr support seems working
[12:44 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: Different subject: I'm having trouble figuring out how to read the primshapes.Texture blob. I tried searching for the documentation\\\\\\\\\\\\\sources and can
[12:44 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: 't find where it it constructed.
[12:44 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ofc i did not add the lsl funtions they added to flood regions and viewers..
[12:44 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: Any pointers for where to look?
[12:45 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: code is a nice documentation
[12:45 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:45 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well some of it on libopenmetaverse
[12:45 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: it is a somewhat confusing thing...
[12:46 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: Only somewhat?! That is a relief!
[12:46 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does not the server just shift around the blob and never read it?
[12:46 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: nopes has to read it to do lsl
[12:46 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: I wondered about that....
[12:47 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: detect used assets.. materials.. etc
[12:47 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok
[12:48 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: https://bitbucket.org/opensimulator/libopenmetaverse/src/master/OpenMetaverse/Primitives/TextureEntry.cs
[12:48 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: guess that is what you want
[12:48 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: Great! I'll check out that ...documentation...
[12:48 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:50 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: old ll tried to make that very compressed
[12:50 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: with concept of defautl texture... for the cases where there is only one
[12:50 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well confusing
[12:51 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: I tried to reverse engineer it and could not figure it out.
[12:51 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well openmetaverse had it a bit wrong
[12:51 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: i had a bit of pain improving :)
[12:52 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: not that that includes avatar textures
[12:52 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: so the 45 possible entries
[12:53 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( not i meant note .. )
[12:54 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: you ddi translate ll viewer code on that joe?
[12:55 PM PT] Joe Magarac: LL code on what?
[12:56 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: textureentry
[12:56 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Yes, I have that figured out.
[12:56 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: fun thing :)
[12:57 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Kayaker, if you email me and describe the problem, I can probably get you un-stuck.
[12:57 PM PT] Joe Magarac: nagle@animats.com
[12:57 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: No lag built on Win 10
[12:57 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: oops
[12:57 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Sorry
[12:57 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:58 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: im crossed wires :)
[12:58 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Crossed windows, same thing
[12:58 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[1:02 PM PT] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: have a great week yall i gotta bail
[1:02 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Later Jamie
[1:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: cya
[1:02 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you too
[1:03 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: server runs fine on Raspi Pi 5 too
[1:03 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Sweet
[1:03 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: oh still does? nice
[1:03 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[1:03 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ah we still have a problem with buillet it seems
[1:03 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: on linux
[1:04 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in reality you just have to do a manual install of dotnet but it is simple
[1:04 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah?
[1:04 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: new libs only work on some recent distros
[1:04 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the Pi is Running Debian 12 with RPI additions
[1:04 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: the usual problem of native code... diferent versions of the dependencies
[1:05 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: misterblue should do something about it
[1:05 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: fix for old distros you mean?
[1:06 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: we have same problem with ode
[1:06 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok
[1:06 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have not tested that
[1:06 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: we do need to compile on a somewhat older version so it runs on newer
[1:06 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: otherwise it will not run on older
[1:07 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ic
[1:07 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: now it seems bullet 3.x will not run/compile on older...
[1:07 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: so.. yeah fun fun...
[1:09 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sorry, I need to get going
[1:09 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ofc solution for now is just revert the commits where the new versions where added and use the old 2.8...
[1:09 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: cya
[1:09 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have a great week all
[1:09 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: you 2
[1:09 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well any other topic ?
[1:10 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ok so lets end the meeting. Hope to see you all next week :)
[1:10 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Thanks, UBit
