[12:11 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: welcome to 2024
[12:11 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thank you
[12:11 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: i mean to fist meeting of 2024 :)
[12:11 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: and first..
[12:11 PM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: its gonna get rough?
[12:12 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: we had no major code changes :(
[12:12 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Not since last week anyways
[12:12 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you pusehd something...
[12:12 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: pushed*
[12:13 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Still trying to chase cats around with the pbr stuff heh
[12:14 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: yes a minor fix for pbr on attachments and more "cosmetic" changes here and there
[12:14 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Removing old code no longer in use, always helpful to make sense of the mess :)
[12:15 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Guess we won't have a meeting next week if osg is down huh, unless we move somewhere else
[12:15 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: will it be down?
[12:15 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I heard something about the 12th to 15th or something idk I didn't pay attention
[12:15 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: hmnm this region eep looks pretty ugly with fs 7.1.2
[12:16 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: lol
[12:16 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have meeting rooms at grid.xmir.org:8002Barcola
[12:16 PM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: starts 16..00hrs on the 10th
[12:16 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( comparing to 6.6.8. on my alt out there :)
[12:16 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: grid.xmir.org:8002/Barcola
[12:18 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Last time moved to OpenSim region on zw, moving somewhere else might be fun, change of wallpaper :)
[12:19 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I can put the change on the wiki.... for those that actually read it
[12:20 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: yes, seems osgrid will go down tomorrow, so they can move things to a new machine
[12:20 PM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: hi Andrew!
[12:20 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: hopefuly all will be up before our next meeting
[12:20 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew
[12:20 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[12:21 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a new machine only?
[12:21 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Sorry I'm late. I was on an important phone call with someone I have been having trouble contacting.
[12:21 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well it is a big machine :)
[12:22 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: remember I worked in IBM, so define big, haha
[12:22 PM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002 likes big machines
[12:22 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: a amd Epyc cpu etc
[12:22 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ibm also made small things :)
[12:22 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: like a thing called.. hmm ibm pc?
[12:23 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is why they sometimes were called Itty Bitty Machines
[12:23 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: I've done a bit of programming for IBM 360 series and era computer. Big is relative.
[12:23 PM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: never caught on lol
[12:23 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I saw some 3d models for a 1800 and 1401 recently, haven't had the time to clean them up and import them though
[12:24 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Nice.
[12:24 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they are on Sketchfab?
[12:24 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I already have them
[12:24 PM PT] Joe Magarac: There is an IBM 1401 simulator written using Unreal Engine. You can mount tapes, put cards in the card reader, toggle the switches, and it all works.
[12:24 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no blinken-lights
[12:25 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: will it compile FORTRAN-2?
[12:25 PM PT] Joe Magarac: I think so.
[12:25 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com coughs into his hand
[12:25 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: The blinken-lights are the best part ;)
[12:26 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Fortran as script language would be fun, but probably not very useful xD
[12:26 PM PT] Joe Magarac: https://rolffson.de/
[12:26 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: going restart this fs .. brb
[12:26 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Based on the above text I'm going to hazard a guess that I haven't missed much of any discussion related to Open Simulator?
[12:26 PM PT] Joe Magarac: No.
[12:27 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a few printouts of programs that were written in Fortran.
[12:27 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I bought an ASR 30 model, but it cannot be properly scaled down for import because the mesh in the keys gets too thin
[12:27 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Ah, Ubit is back. Let's get this gathering back on topic.
[12:27 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:29 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, has there been any feedback since switching master to dotnet?
[12:29 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: none
[12:29 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: We have had some things on mantis, but those were resolved
[12:29 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: guess those that do run from git where running dotnet6 already
[12:30 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Performance is up slightly that much I could tell fairly easily
[12:31 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Good to hear that there hasn't been any major issues.
[12:31 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: There were some complaints about the fact that scripts sometimes don't transfer, because their binaries are not directly compatible
[12:31 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for me it is very stable
[12:31 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have not had a single region crash at all
[12:32 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: As dotnet moves forward with things will become more incompatible as well, especially with pbr stuff, taking content from it back to mono you strip that data out basically
[12:32 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: FYI, I might be moving the repos for the addon modules I maintain to Sourceforge due to problems arising from github now requiring two-factor authentication.
[12:33 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah, that is a bit of a pain
[12:33 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Somebody always screws up a good thing
[12:33 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: indeed
[12:33 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well as i said.. this region eep looks very ugly on fs 7.1.2
[12:33 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bitbucket git still works
[12:33 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ll totally messed it up
[12:33 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Sourceforge is not a good platform
[12:34 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: agreed
[12:34 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I hate it
[12:34 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Sourceforge was bought while back and they have had some shady things going on from time to time
[12:34 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: who bought it?
[12:35 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: I know some people don't like SF but I maintain another project over there so I already have an SF account. SF also makes it easy to import projects from github. I just need the projects somewhere other than just github as a backup.
[12:35 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: You know you can grab a yubikey for 40 bucks and then use their auth app to generate those mfa codes
[12:36 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Defeats the mfa point, but it is less hassle than keeping a phone nearby
[12:37 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ask not what github can do for you - ask what you can buy for github
[12:37 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Agreed. Have a non-Github backup.
[12:37 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: I was given a Yubikey to see if I could make use of it to secure a program I work on. It would be one more program to install on both my desktop and my laptop. After that I would need a way to keep track of where the Yubikey is located for when I need it.
[12:37 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Anybody be willing to divide up the cost of our own "Github" equivalent?
[12:37 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Although, unlike Google, Microsoft tends not to discontinue B2B products on short notice.
[12:38 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: true
[12:38 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Gitlab is free, just needs someone familiar with it to maintain it, cause it needs regular updates and sometimes likes to break itself
[12:38 PM PT] Joe Magarac: The risk with Github is being banned.
[12:39 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: No idea why we are not putting the search part into core anyways.
[12:39 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Github is supposed to handle OTP but after getting it set up it seems they don't handle OTP. When it wants me to authenticate it doesn't show me the string of characters I need to feed to the oathtool that will generate the code github wants.
[12:39 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have Kalithea running for myself, but the developer stopped applying changes 7 months ago, and it only runs with Python 3.8 so I guess that is toast too
[12:39 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Apart from the webroot things the module itself hasn't changed at all and I don't think many use a different module for search if there even exists one
[12:40 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: http://dayturn.com:5005
[12:40 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, Which search part?
[12:40 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The region module
[12:41 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, first time I'm hearing of Kallithea.
[12:41 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: It looks interesting
[12:41 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is not particularly well know. It handles Mercurial repos too
[12:42 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I noticed the hg extensions on a couple of files.
[12:42 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep, I have all the old HG repos that were zaped from Bitbucket
[12:47 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Joe, didn't you have a question last week about how crossings happen in the viewer, maybe Gavin can provide some info on that
[12:48 PM PT] Joe Magarac: OK.
[12:48 PM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: oh sharpview?
[12:48 PM PT] Joe Magarac: I've been putting more instrumentation into Sharpview for region crossings.
[12:48 PM PT] Joe Magarac: I can watch them fail in SL.
[12:48 PM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: is there anyway to add a grid to it?
[12:48 PM PT] Joe Magarac: In SL, single crossings without vehicles always work.
[12:48 PM PT] Joe Magarac: ?
[12:48 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Grid?
[12:49 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but not with vehicles?
[12:49 PM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: gives a choice of 4
[12:49 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Double region crossings with vehicles sometimes fail.
[12:49 PM PT] Joe Magarac: OS is not doing as well.
[12:49 PM PT] Joe Magarac: I need to test more.
[12:49 PM PT] Joe Magarac: But it will have to wait until next month because I need to do some other things first.
[12:49 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does the vehicle fail on physics?
[12:50 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Like add sitting.
[12:50 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in the viewer I mean
[12:50 PM PT] Joe Magarac: I have not tried a vehicle in OS yet.
[12:50 PM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: i need to get to my next assignation
[12:50 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If I recall you are trying to move diagonally as well into the corner region, which can be problematic
[12:50 PM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: thanks everyone
[12:50 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Yes. But it should work.
[12:50 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: fast crossings will most likely blow up...
[12:50 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Most TPV (registered by LL) have access to teh Havok physics
[12:50 PM PT] Joe Magarac: the question is, can we fix that?
[12:51 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if not you have to use the one that the Alchemy guy wrote for opensim
[12:51 PM PT] Joe Magarac: I will have more to say about this in a few weeks.
[12:51 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: otherwise you will not get a vehicle to cross
[12:51 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Reason I bring it up, because after the meeting last week a thought got into my head about this
[12:51 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Havok doesn't do much in the viewer.
[12:51 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Mostly used for mesh uploads.
[12:51 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: vavoc is just mesh tools
[12:51 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it also works on region crossings
[12:52 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: havoc...
[12:52 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: When you move diagonally you cross into the region to the side and then into the corner region most likely. That results in two crossings back to back in very quick succession that can cause issues
[12:52 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Yes.
[12:52 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: replaced by hadc(?) on viwers for opensim
[12:52 PM PT] Joe Magarac: But the viewer protocol can handle that.
[12:52 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: So it is an edge case, literally, of skipping that first crossing if we are too close right, ideally instead of crossing to the side first we'd just jump ahead and cross into the corner region directly
[12:53 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Say you are within a few meters for a region corner, going fast enough, figure out which region to cross on the corner, send the user there instead
[12:53 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: as i said fast crossings in succession will most likely blowup
[12:53 PM PT] Joe Magarac: All crossings are across edges. There are race conditions when two crossings happen in rapid succession.
[12:53 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That would require some logic on our end, but could "redirect" the crossing
[12:53 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: like tps
[12:53 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Yes, they blow up, but they shouldn't.
[12:53 PM PT] Joe Magarac: It's a bug.
[12:53 PM PT] Joe Magarac: And I want it fixed.
[12:54 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: On OpenSim they will blow up because of how crossings work internally, we just can't move the data quick enough
[12:54 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well its from udp etc
[12:54 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: So I been thinking, why try, just skip right to the diagonal region instead
[12:55 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Because regions only talk to neighbors across edges. They don't talk to diagonal regions.
[12:55 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: I have had cases on region crossings where I was too close to parallel to the edge, and it hung up the vehicle
[12:56 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: If the X/Y says the person is very close to a corner they may be passing through but there is no guarantee that is the case. Assuming they are passing through could lead to another "bug".
[12:56 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Moving along the edge by accident
[12:56 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: btw you tested unittest1/ubittest2 ?
[12:56 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: (ubit.. not unit...)
[12:56 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Actually, region crossings trigger when you are 1m past an edge, to avoid frantic toggling when on top of an edge.
[12:57 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Ubit, haven't gotten to testing on your test grids yet.
[12:57 PM PT] Joe Magarac: But I will.
[12:57 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: not opensim.. ( currently )
[12:57 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Please send me a notecard with the info I need to use those. Thanks.
[12:57 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If the next position would put you into the diagonal region it does cross you there, but you have to hit the corner exactly and be going fast enough
[12:58 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: what info?
[12:58 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: your test servers, UBit
[12:58 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: tp to one of them and test crossing to the other..
[12:58 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: they are here
[12:58 PM PT] Joe Magarac: On OSgrid? I've used those. OK.
[12:58 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: in fast jsut north from this
[12:58 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: i fact..
[12:59 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: you can see them on map here
[12:59 PM PT] Joe Magarac: The big region with some PBR objects on a plateau.
[12:59 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: I see them
[12:59 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Thank you
[12:59 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If you have two regions that are just connected via a corner and you yeet yourself into that corner it'll plop you out the other side, but it only works if you are pushing
[12:59 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well no edge crossing there
[12:59 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: No corner crossing, right
[12:59 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah i mean no corner..
[12:59 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Right, I need edges and corners I can walk and drive across.
[1:00 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Can you add two more?
[1:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: but corner crossings will be asking for trouble anyways
[1:00 PM PT] Joe Magarac: I found one spot on OSgrid and did some testing.
[1:00 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: most of the crossing happens in indra/newview/llviewerobject.cpp
[1:00 PM PT] Joe Magarac: I want to get corners to work on OS so I can shame LL into fixing theirs.
[1:01 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[1:01 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Amen to that
[1:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well issue maybe from the protocol..
[1:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: how updates are sent via udp etc
[1:01 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Viewer Sim is OK for corners. I've been looking at that in great detail.
[1:01 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Each region has 8 neighbors, not four this way
[1:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well some may be udp http
[1:02 PM PT] Joe Magarac: all that part works, at least for SL.
[1:02 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Gotta go, next meeting. More next week.
[1:03 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: and opensim regions will talk to a corner region.. it if does find it is the crossing destination
[1:03 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Joe. See you next week. Good luck with your project.
[1:03 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: think is that in most cases that will be 2 crossings in fast sequence..
[1:03 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The problem is if you move at say 256,254 diagonal you get placed in the region to the side first, then you instantly cross into the diagonal region. OpenSim falls over, because it cannot process these in less than a second. If you hit 256,256 exactly and move quick it'll put you into the diagonal region. More so if the only available region is the diagonal one.
[1:03 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Ubit, I know this may not be easy, but could you put corner regions on par with edge regions, making them the same crossing protocol?
[1:04 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: they are on same protocol
[1:04 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: A potential fix would be to check the "next position" on crossing to see if it is diagonal in another region and just change the target of the crossing from the side to the diagonal region
[1:05 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: That is more to what I had in mind, yeah
[1:05 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Meaning if pos ~256,256 check direction vector, contact diagonal region for crossing
[1:05 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: oe just put a big prim on corners "no not cross here"
[1:05 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[1:05 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is that fast enough to avoid rubber banding in the viewer?
[1:06 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: to make the reroute I mean
[1:06 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That's what I am worried about, because the bounding box for diagonal crossing would need to depend on velocity as well
[1:06 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[1:06 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Going faster it needs to be bigger to avoid side crossing first, but all that adds overhead to the crossing code
[1:06 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: in fact a few years ago i did test corners crossings with ubode
[1:07 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: and back then .. kinda worked, ( on same network etc )
[1:07 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you are just a bit off, will not 3 regions start to compete about the agent or object
[1:07 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actually the agent is an object
[1:08 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If you crash into the corner and only have the corner region available to cross it works a lot better, it's the region to the side getting the crossing trigger that breaks it all yeah
[1:08 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: a ugly thing was having a elastic prim jsut on the other side of crossing
[1:08 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: sending the vehicle fast back :)
[1:08 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did it snap back then?
[1:09 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well it kinda went back..
[1:09 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: or into the void :)
[1:09 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh
[1:10 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If you have only a region diagonally you can drive into it really fast and even if you hit it at say 256,254 it'll plop you out the other side fine, it's the calculation of "next position" that is kinda key here
[1:10 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: another thing at a diagonal crossing, we cannot assume the motion is straight lines. the agent or object may be moving on a curved path
[1:10 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It tries to find where you would end up and see if there is something there to send you to
[1:11 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Bounding box approach would work, but not an elegant solution
[1:11 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: it is abotu root prim mostly
[1:12 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: No I mean like bounding box at each corner of the region that if you are in it and moving diagonally you get crossed diagonally instead
[1:12 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Kinda like a teleporter placed at the region corner
[1:12 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: if you drive a long car agains the edge.. its front wheels may fall :)
[1:13 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: bc physcs only does ground a few meters outside the egde
[1:13 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: and edge is by root prim position..
[1:13 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If you throw prims at it they might drop velocity completely and fall into the void, but that still happens once in a while on normal crossings
[1:13 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: sl does have larger margins on that
[1:14 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: possible 16m
[1:14 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: thing they also share terrain on those 16m..
[1:15 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: we do not
[1:15 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: meaning?
[1:15 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: land extends 16m outside the edge for physics,,,
[1:15 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Ever tried editing terrain across region borders, fun stuff
[1:16 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh, ok
[1:16 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: on a open edge it is just flat..
[1:16 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I do it all the time
[1:16 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: if there is a region there, then it gets the terrain the other region has there
[1:16 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it works using the flatten terrain brush
[1:16 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: on opensim.. there is no such share
[1:17 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Isolation by design
[1:17 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: terrain edit works on several cases..
[1:17 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Cause you don't want your neighbor to mess with your stuff basically
[1:17 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Which is a good thing, but also means some stuff is more glitchy
[1:18 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: bc viewers send same brush data and global posioton to both regions
[1:18 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: but.. they may "desync.."
[1:18 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the only brush that works across regions are flatten
[1:19 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but by waring the size and magnitude you can get pretty good results
[1:19 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It's been driving me nuts trying to align terrain, but yeah same cause, regions not "interacting" with each other for good reason
[1:20 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well there are reasons why we do have large regions :)
[1:20 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Regarding crossings I think we could attempt the bounding box idea, force diagonal crossing if the alternative would be a too fast side crossing, cause that's just a bandaid really
[1:20 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: croosing had always been a fail
[1:21 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Probably be a better solution for the viewer to say "hey I wanna go to this region" cause it more closely knows what the user is requesting
[1:21 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: We just get packets for position change and those may drop
[1:21 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: no that is nor viewer decision
[1:22 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Even the view can only guess, but it is closer to the user's control inputs than the server
[1:22 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: regions decide that
[1:22 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Unfortunately it is not yeah
[1:22 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Difference between crossing and teleport
[1:22 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: doesn't the region decide where the object is at any time
[1:22 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Yep
[1:23 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Viewer just says "move" which is udp part so with packet loss might not notice what I mean
[1:23 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so the viewer acts on the position reported by the region
[1:23 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well object teleport can do crossings
[1:23 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: even long range tps
[1:23 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: but a very ugly thing to watch
[1:24 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Yep, viewer tells region what to do and it reports back once it did that, viewer only updates then
[1:24 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Feedback loop
[1:24 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: (joe may not knoe about objects teleports
[1:24 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: obviously there is an interaction there, but you sometimes see some ugly readjustments to what the regions sais
[1:25 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: regions decide postions
[1:25 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Cause it moves first and asks questions later xD
[1:25 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: they do run the physics..
[1:25 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( and/or scripts )
[1:26 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Cause the "cannot move" is more rare than "can move" hence most checks for that happen after it is applied, that's why you rubberband on ban lines and such
[1:26 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Plus all that is not exactly accurate either
[1:26 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Avatars technically constantly bouncing around
[1:26 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: oops 26min past hour :)
[1:27 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so we drop a few frames on region crossings to minimize the visual bouncing
[1:28 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it might be as much as 1 sec
[1:28 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Can be yeah, most times is pretty fast thankfully
[1:28 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If regions are properly hosted anyways
[1:29 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I mean there is a deliberate 1 sec where no new frames are rendered on crossing
[1:29 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: never seen that
[1:29 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: even FS does it (they came up with the idea)
[1:30 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: objects or avatars are just where region told them to be, or do predict movement
[1:30 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not sure if it is a full second, but a number of frames are not refreshed
[1:30 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well see no chage on frames..
[1:31 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: objects on regions keep moving...
[1:31 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: while we can get rubber band..
[1:31 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: or stop on edge a bit
[1:31 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the dropped frames are to minimize the apperance of rubberbanding
[1:32 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is seen like a small glitch
[1:32 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: that would cause jitter on all the other moving things
[1:32 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it can do
[1:33 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the thing is that the user usually is focused on the avatar on crossing, so whatever is happening in the frame does not have any attention
[1:34 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is just local to the viewer, everything else goes not as normal
[1:37 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: We are half past the hour mark. Before we go do we need to finalize a backup meeting location in case osgrid is still down this coming Tuesday?
[1:39 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as I said I have a region with meeting rooms
[1:39 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, what is the URL? I wasn't here when that was mentioned.
[1:40 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: grid:xmir.org:8002/Barcola
[1:41 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: http://grid.xmir.org:8002/barcola
[1:41 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Are the meetings numbered? We can always pick one after we arrive.
[1:42 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Need to get home - see you all later
[1:42 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: s/meetings/meeting rooms/
[1:42 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Orbert. We are about done here.
[1:42 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no, we just pick a room
[1:42 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: See you next week.
[1:42 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Peace
[1:42 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, ty Gavin.
[1:42 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: see you all next week then
[1:43 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: cya
[1:43 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: We can just wait by the landing area and pick a room after people arrive. Late comers can check the map for a closely packed group of dots.
[1:44 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.k
