Chat log from the meeting on 2024-01-02

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[12:00 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: oops i was running another fs minimized :)
[12:00 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: 75W now
[12:00 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger hi Motoko
[12:01 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Motoko
[12:01 PM PT]  Motoko.Karu Hihi Clifford.. And Andrew..
[12:01 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, 75W for what?
[12:01 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: later with room temp goes down ill change back to 60fps, to heat up the room
[12:01 PM PT]  Motoko.Karu hello everyone.. Happy new year
[12:01 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Merry New Year!
[12:01 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: my gpu power usage now
[12:01 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger ✿◕‿◕✿ ★♪★ ♥♥.•´¯`•. ĤÃƤƤЎ ŇẸŴ ЎẸÃŘ .•´¯`•.♥♥ ★♪★ ✿◕‿◕✿
[12:01 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: happy new year to you all
[12:02 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and wel that is the main subject of this meeting :)
[12:02 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: I used to have an nvidia Quatro that warmed my office in the winter, it ran so hot.
[12:02 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:02 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger hi orbert
[12:02 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, ok. I never look at the power consumed by my GPU. No idea if that is good or bad.
[12:02 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: no new code
[12:03 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well there are tools to display power stas of cpu and gpus
[12:03 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: acording to their own measurements..
[12:03 PM PT]  Jagga Meredith: I still measure power in tea kettles
[12:03 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: No new code? Weren't you supposed to surprise with something new to start off the new year?  ;)
[12:04 PM PT]  Motoko.Karu conky measures gpu power/performance...
[12:04 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Having a big case with lots of fans helps. I have an NVidia 3070, and the fans rarely crank up to high speed.
[12:04 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger ubit didnt get the memo
[12:04 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Question: I'm trying to display uptime on a grid WEB page and used regions.last_seen but that number seems to reset often. Is there a way to find out how long a region has been up without diving into the console?
[12:05 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm is log off?
[12:05 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester That gets updated each time it registers as in each time it sends a maptile
[12:05 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger i have a php/bash script that does it
[12:06 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Just add a automatic timestamp field in the table when the entry gets created, if you properly shut the region down the entry will be removed
[12:06 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: we have a few stats interfaces..  guess uptime is on one of them
[12:06 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Part of jsonsimstats yes
[12:07 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ofc i always forget how to use them :)
[12:07 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:09 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Ah: I found   That looks like the documentation I need.
[12:09 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: There is Webstats, jsonsimstats, and datasnapshot. That last one may not have the uptime info.
[12:10 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Those first two need to be enabled in the ini file.
[12:10 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: {"Dilatn":"1","SimFPS":"55","PhyFPS":"55","AgntUp":"0","RootAg":"0","ChldAg":"0","NPCAg":"0","Prims":"1547","AtvPrm":"0","AtvScr":"60","ScrLPS":"0","ScrEPS":"1","PktsIn":"61","PktOut":"17","PendDl":"0","PendUl":"0","UnackB":"0","TotlFt":"18.18","NetFt":"0","PhysFt":"0.01","OthrFt":"0.01","AgntFt":"0","ImgsFt":"0","FrameDilatn":"1","Logging in Users":"0","GeoPrims":"1099","Mesh Objects":"448","Script Engine Thread Count":"0","RegionName":"UbitTest2","Util Thread Count":"0","System Thread Count":"69","System Thread Active":"1","ProcMem":"450768","Memory":"50","Uptime":"14.20:14:54.5251042","Version":"OpenSim Nessie Dev dce2f13"}
[12:10 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: regionurl/jsonstats
[12:11 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: also on /jsonSimStats
[12:12 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Note needs to be urlencoded if it contains spaces
[12:15 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i did a little commit, making visible a gridinfo field viewers use for webprofiles  site url
[12:15 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: at least as fs uses it...
[12:16 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester You said LL was moving back away from that though?
[12:16 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: they did
[12:17 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but the thing still works even there
[12:17 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: just displays athe page, ofc
[12:17 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Got some region crossing questions.
[12:17 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: fws now calls it feed
[12:17 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: fs..
[12:18 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: fs does ship with it set for osgrid and sl only on its grid.xml file
[12:18 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Joe, ok. Hold on a minute.
[12:18 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: np
[12:19 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Any more comments/questions about stats?
[12:19 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel it os only adding ; web_profile_url = http://webprofilesurl:ItsPort?name=[AGENT_NAME]
[12:19 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: on robust.ini
[12:20 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: viewers convert [AGENT_NAME] into firstname.lastname   i think.. so the website needs to have that rest interface
[12:20 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well guess only osgrid is usint it
[12:21 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so joe..  what is the question ?
[12:21 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: OK.
[12:22 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I've been testing crossings at Friggin Awesome S
[12:22 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: to FA Water 8
[12:22 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Omega
[12:22 PM PT]  Omega MC: hello!
[12:22 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger hi Omega
[12:22 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: In Firestorm, walking across results in the avatar continuing to move without keyboard input.
[12:23 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: that means a failed tp
[12:23 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: failed somewhere ..
[12:23 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: No, if I hit down arrow once, movement stops.
[12:23 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel some udp was lost somewhere
[12:23 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: It's like there's no movement update on arrival that says velocity is 0.
[12:24 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: right, if a TerseImprovedObjectUpdate was lost, that would happen.
[12:24 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: It happens most of the time, though.
[12:24 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I see this a lot with OS, but not SL.
[12:24 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: no idea abotu those regions
[12:25 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Velocity should be kept on crossing so yeah it might be waiting on you to tell the avatar stopped moving
[12:25 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: like what is the lag btw them etc
[12:25 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I just looked on the map for a flat region corner.
[12:25 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: even opensim versions..
[12:25 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: you can check ubittest1 and 2
[12:25 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ofc they are 1km wide regions also :)
[12:26 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I will try over there, too. But I need to test at a 4-corner region point.
[12:26 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but on same datacenter
[12:27 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester If you throw an object over a region border it will continue flying as well, velocity doesn't drop to zero, same with avatars, helps smooth the transition
[12:27 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Right, but if the viewer isn't sending arrow keys, movement is supposed to stop.
[12:27 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: avatars should stop..
[12:27 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: assuming you do send updates also
[12:28 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: to tell region you did stop...
[12:28 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Both Firestorm and Sharpview show this behavior.
[12:28 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( ie keys state)
[12:28 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I send a key update once per second if nothing is happening.
[12:28 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ok
[12:29 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I suspect that, on arrival in the region, whatever looks at viewer input thinks nothing is moving, so it doesn't have to send anything.
[12:29 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: But the first object update that created the avatar had velocity in it.
[12:29 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: And there's no update sent to the viewer to stop that.
[12:30 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: If velocity at entry is non zero, and the viewer sends "No keys down", the simulator needs to generate a TerseImprovedObjectUpdate with zero velocity.
[12:30 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well those regions may also be running bullet.. that may stiall have sotm crossings issues
[12:31 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Possibly. Is there a 4 region corner area someone can recommend for testing?
[12:31 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: A flat, drivable corner, if possible.
[12:32 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester As you move from one region to another there is going to be some velocity else you wouldn't cross, so that is kept and applied to make sure you actually move across and don't get stuck right on the border. I suspect the viewer notices the crossing and sends whether a key is still being pressed or not and then velocity is zeroed
[12:32 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well my alt did move for a bit but the stopped, placed back near edge
[12:32 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so. sounds like a bit og lag
[12:32 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Cause you ideally want to keep velocity to make transition smooth, if you start from zero back up each crossing would be quite rough
[12:32 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger no
[12:32 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger morgan kelly is still there
[12:33 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ok this time didn't stop lol
[12:33 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger oops sorry
[12:33 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: It's OK to keep the velocity until the gaining region sees no keys down.
[12:33 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: anyway, since this is reproduceable with Firestorm, it's not a bug in Sharpview.
[12:34 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester That is odd
[12:34 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well ubittest2/1 seem ok
[12:34 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I will try over there later.
[12:34 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so either lag or bullet issue
[12:35 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Yeah we'd never hear the end of it if that was broken
[12:35 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Tried different region ports yet?
[12:35 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Different region ports?
[12:35 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: he does not own the regions :)
[12:35 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: those are regions here at osg
[12:35 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Right. I'm developing a viewer.
[12:36 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: I have to work with the regions of others.
[12:36 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Well if you want to test things best setup a standalone for yourself so you can watch the console messages on what's happening
[12:36 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: you could run you own.. ;)
[12:37 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: The goal is to work on the grid as it exists.
[12:37 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yes but remember that osgrid is made of regions that run on users hardware..
[12:37 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: How well do vehicle region crossings work in OS, anyway?
[12:37 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: many home pcs
[12:37 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so need to pick some test ones that run on same datacenter...
[12:38 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: That helps.
[12:38 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: guess that is the case on those ones..
[12:38 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger lots on amv
[12:38 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: in other cases, crossings may nevere work ;)
[12:38 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Vehicle crossing works well enough that you can traverse hundreds of regions by boat without much issue
[12:38 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger but all bullet
[12:39 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: I've had similar luck boating on grids with many regions and ubode.
[12:39 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: fro crossings to work  os versions should eb identical and on same datacenter ( and/or low latency )
[12:40 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: OK. I'll return to this in a  few weeks. On the SL side, if you can't do donuts on a region corner at high speed, it's broken. I'm beating on LL on that.
[12:40 PM PT]  Omega MC: so did you get it working on a standalone of your own before trying it on other grids?  If not, might be
[12:40 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but that issue may really be a bullet issue
[12:40 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: The vehicles cross nicely, if you wear a HUD it fails often on crossings.
[12:40 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: bullet still has several crossings problems
[12:41 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Script states across simulators are always problematic, there are ways to force a reset on them to make them work after a crossing to an "unknown" region
[12:41 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: OK. Good to know. More on this in a few weeks.
[12:44 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger are bullet crossings that problematic?
[12:45 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: RL is calling, I must run!
[12:46 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester ubode has not been giving me much trouble beyond what's already problematic anyways, not sure why some stick with bullet
[12:46 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Suppose it has some upper hand somewhere, but I have not missed anything yet
[12:46 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham In a word, mesh
[12:46 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger more vehicles are setup for bullet
[12:47 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: whatever "setup for bullet" means :)
[12:48 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger the scripts were written for bullet?
[12:48 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Mesh Buildings that work in
[12:48 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham bullet often are unusable in ubODE
[12:48 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: means they where tested and tuned for bullet in more case
[12:49 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: a problem is that ubode does a few more vehicle things than bullet
[12:49 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: those need to be set so will not misbehave on ubode that will try to do them
[12:49 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ofc there are also some diferences on the dynamics...
[12:50 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: bc interpretation of same parameters is diferent ( and diferent on all engines )
[12:51 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: old ode ( minimal and bad vehicles support) ubode, bullet and halcyon  all have own ideas about vehicles
[12:51 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: (halcyon physx based engine =
[12:53 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: on crossings also...
[12:53 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: they all take part on it..  from crossing detection, etc etc
[12:53 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester The usability of mesh is down to how it was uploaded more so than the engine, so user to blame on that. Partly also LL not knowing what to do with collada, but these things can be fixed with effort. Just no one wants to do it, rather mixing mesher and physics which is a big no no
[12:57 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yes i was not talking about mesh :)
[12:58 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Just re-iterating to make sure :)
[12:58 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and yes they are also a bit diferent on those..
[12:58 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:59 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well if we had a perfect one, we would only have one engine :)
[12:59 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Someday.
[1:00 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo:
[1:00 PM PT]  Joe Magarac: Gotta go, next meeting. Thanks all!
[1:00 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Here is the link to the collection of videos from OSCC
[1:00 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: 2023
[1:00 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: bye Joe
[1:00 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ty Lyr
[1:00 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Joe. See you next time.
[1:01 PM PT]  Omega MC: ty lyr
[1:01 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Happy New Year, MC
[1:01 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you, Lyr. I'm still working my way through the panels. I still have a few I want to watch.
[1:01 PM PT]  Omega MC: happy new year!
[1:01 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Happy new year, Omega.
[1:01 PM PT]  Omega MC: lol same here andrew
[1:01 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham The reason I brought up the mesh thing is that so many of the houses/buildings a lot of places running bullet would become unusable if they switched - Cliff's AMV grid has a LOT of those, and if he switched to ubODE, he would lose most of his custopmers
[1:02 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: Orbert... old issue.. those mesh where not uploaded correctly
[1:02 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester A good option is to set the mesh phantom and use prims for collision, which might even be less strain on physics :)
[1:02 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger cliff will be testing ubode very soon
[1:03 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov:
[1:04 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester It obeys object hierarchy regarding physics shapes, so basically like any other game engine, you can use the tutorials for that for how to create good mesh
[1:04 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ok  my RL calls
[1:04 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: :)
[1:04 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: happy 2024 to all :)
[1:04 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Peace, UBit
[1:04 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Then it's just a matter of finding a goat to sacrifice so the uploader won't spout an error at you
[1:04 PM PT]  Omega MC: bye ubit, have a great week
[1:04 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: many thanks
[1:05 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Have a great week!
[1:05 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Ubit. See you next week.
[1:05 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: you 2 :)
[1:05 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Any other last minute items for today?
[1:06 PM PT]  Clifford.Hanger ok here
[1:06 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: That brings us to the end of the first meeting for 2024. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
[1:06 PM PT]  Motoko.Karu take care everyone...
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