Chat log from the meeting on 2023-12-05

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[12:13 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: welcome :)
[12:13 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: about last week code changes...
[12:14 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i did work on the vierwer changes on pbr material overrides protocol changes..  It should be working now
[12:14 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well more or less
[12:15 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: amazing how ll went full live with something that bad
[12:15 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Nothing new sadly
[12:15 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and jsut a few minutes ago i did update unmanage libbulletsim for macs, as provided by Cuga :)
[12:16 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Well, we should discuss
[12:16 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: another upsetting hange was on order of precedence of operators 
[12:16 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I uploaded that to Mantis as part of a larger set of DLLs that mrBlue and I have been wirkging on
[12:17 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: it was doing c# order.. ie 
[12:17 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal we shuld discuss more when we're done talking about code changes
[12:17 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: that has never been LSL order..
[12:17 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: there was indications of || having higher order and recently they state that 
[12:18 PM PT]  Misterblue Waves: there will be updates for regular BulletSim... moving to the latest Bullet version and some version reporting functions
[12:18 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Good think I never trusted precedence order in any language....
[12:18 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so, since Y was not even doing as X did i changed to to have same order as new spec
[12:19 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and Yes as Kayker says, we should always use (..) to force the order we do need, and on any languague
[12:19 PM PT]  Misterblue Waves: I will checkin the new BulletSim DLL/SO/... and rename the current/old version so people can easily restore old version if they have problems
[12:19 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well that was it :)
[12:19 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal So MrBlue and I have been working on Bullet unmanaged lib, now have a complete set of DLLs for all platforms ready to roll out
[12:20 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well Cuga decide to move into universal.. htat changes names
[12:20 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Universal is not newe
[12:20 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: uff a few years old is new.. details..
[12:20 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Bullet is back from the dead, that project has actually been making updates and bumped the rev to 3.26
[12:20 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: think it is as dead as before..
[12:21 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: just gettign a few "cosmetics"
[12:21 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal MrBlue also has been making improvements to the wrapper and build rpocess. We now have a complete set of SLLs for all platforms
[12:21 PM PT]  Misterblue Waves: most of the new Bullet work has been on the pyBullet interface... the base engine hasn't changed in a while
[12:21 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal DLLs*
[12:21 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal The question is mainly how best to roll it out
[12:21 PM PT]  Web Rain: @Cuga : what we can expect as potential problems?
[12:22 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Nothing that wasn;t a problem before :)
[12:22 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: problems on opensim? nahhh nver...
[12:22 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: only features ( some unwanted )
[12:22 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I've been testing the latest Bullet all year on my sim and found no issues
[12:22 PM PT]  Web Rain: hihihi
[12:23 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal There is one ugly bug, but I recently confirmed that bug is the same on an old distro using an older version of the DLLs
[12:23 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so yor sim  is flat.. and no steps :p
[12:23 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Oh, I got plenty of physics at mt sim :) more than most
[12:23 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal MrBlue can attest to that
[12:23 PM PT]  Misterblue Waves: the new one works as wonky as the existing version :)
[12:24 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I think the fact that this bug was never reported until I opened a Mantis, despite it being around for years, means that most people won;t encounter it
[12:24 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal the bug is well docuented now in a Mantis
[12:24 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm last week i did said that master is now on dotnet  and the branch dotnet6 is now dead, right?
[12:24 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal But that was confirmed not to be coming from the DLL, so not related to this rollout
[12:25 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: what bug?
[12:25 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal llDetectedLinkNumber(n) on phyysics-enabled objects
[12:25 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: bullet as a few issues on handling Physics shape type... since ever..
[12:25 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal
[12:25 PM PT]  Jamie.Jordan Hi everybody
[12:26 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel think it can't do that also
[12:26 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I did more research on it last weekend and confirmed not related to DLL, most likely the connector
[12:26 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal So a fix most likely wonlt involve rebuilding the DLLs
[12:26 PM PT]  Web Rain: hi Jamie :)
[12:26 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal So our plan is to push the new DLLs for all platforms into master
[12:27 PM PT]  Misterblue Waves: it's because BulletSim merges all the meshes for a physical linkset and thus "looses" the link number of the individual pieces
[12:27 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal MrBlue suggested, and I agree, to leave older DLLs there in case there is something unexpected
[12:27 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal and people can jusy edit the Configs to point to the older DLL
[12:27 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal But use the new ones by default
[12:27 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal And I think it would be good for this group to have inout on this
[12:28 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal input*
[12:28 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: 2 late.. i deleted them :p
[12:28 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( are on git :p )
[12:28 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I know that makes things messy in lib64, which Ubit doesn;t like
[12:29 PM PT]  Web Rain: is pretty rare that  llDetectedLinkNumber(n) on physics objects ?!? maybe is for that was never reported
[12:29 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: either the new ones work or not...
[12:29 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I think it's important to have feature parity acrtoss all platforms,
[12:29 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: I gota run to a lunch meeting in RL!
[12:29 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I tested the macOS port pretty thotoughly
[12:29 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Buy all!
[12:29 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: soem scrips do use llDetect...
[12:29 PM PT]  Web Rain:    :)
[12:30 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo waves
[12:30 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal @Web Rain - My Demolition Derby game requires this bug to be fixed :/
[12:30 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal but I'm prob the only one who cares :)
[12:30 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: Cuga... is not a bug.. it is a bullet feature
[12:30 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal not this one lol
[12:31 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: as MB told, bullet merges all prim meshes into one.. so loses prim info on collisions
[12:31 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I will need to bribe MisterBlue to look at this, it requires a deep dive
[12:31 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: unless tris do have some filed tro store it..
[12:31 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: field..
[12:32 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal mebbe Ubit and MrBlue can have coffee and look at it sometime ? :)
[12:32 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: think to undo that mesh merge is out of question now..
[12:32 PM PT]  Misterblue Waves: BulletSim does have the feature to do linksets as constrained objects and it would be easier with that
[12:32 PM PT]  Misterblue Waves: the alternative is doing a bunch of collision point searching to find what part of the linkset is being touched
[12:32 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal There are a couple paths to fixing it, but both pretty deep work\
[12:33 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back. somehow the system update always messes up the kernel and/or kernel modules. I have to copy over the latest kernel to the SSD for booting to get Firestorm working properly again even though nothing else seems to have changed. My system has no disable option for internal graphics. Only one of four lines that seems to be some sort of discovery(?) order.
[12:33 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal WB Andrew glad youre here
[12:33 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel it kinda works on ubode
[12:34 PM PT]  Misterblue Waves: anyway... like Cuga says, an updated BulletSim is going into 'master' but the old binaries will stay around if people find problems
[12:34 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: the old libs are on git etc..
[12:34 PM PT]  Web Rain: i don't know what machine you have but is possible to force the thing in the bios by disabling optimus
[12:35 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal We were hoping the bug could be fixed before the new Bullet release, but it hasn't. And last OSCC we did announce the work on the new Bullet version. So we felt it would be good to release it before OSCC.
[12:35 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal And I did confirm the bug is not related to the DLL
[12:35 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: CUga what part of nor been a bug but a feature you missed??
[12:35 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: lol
[12:35 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: bullet was made that way....
[12:35 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Not a bug, but a feature, eh? *chuckles*
[12:35 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Thank you, Misterblue and Cuga
[12:36 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Come to sandbox Ubit and I'll show you the "feature"
[12:37 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i could show you othe features of it, you seem to ignore...
[12:37 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but details :)
[12:37 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( other features of it.. )
[12:37 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel the new unmanaged is now on master.. so ppl can test it
[12:37 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal all the platforms?
[12:38 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: you gave me the universal
[12:38 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: gave us actually
[12:38 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal correct, same as before
[12:38 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester If we have bugs or even features that might cause undocumented behavior we should put them on mantis. I been working a lot to clean mantis up as best as possible so it can serve to record and catalog these things.
[12:38 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal MrBlue has DLLs for Linux and Windows etc
[12:38 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal they should all be pushed together
[12:39 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: let macs crash before :p
[12:39 PM PT]  Misterblue Waves: and eventually updates to opensim-libs
[12:39 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal for feature parity
[12:39 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( kidding )
[12:39 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I challenge you to a physics crash LOL
[12:39 PM PT]  Misterblue Waves: Cuga made a signed mac binary so it works with the picky Apple environment
[12:40 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal yeah and I tested it on several macOS versions/hardware etc
[12:40 PM PT]  Misterblue Waves: although I'm finding that Windows is starting to get that "DLLs must be signed" feature also
[12:40 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: isnt  that the one i pushed ?
[12:40 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: don 't see it on dlls..
[12:40 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ofc .exe have it for ages
[12:41 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I only uploaded the macOS one to Mantic because I can;t push.. MrBlue can do that with his
[12:41 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Would be good to push all the Bullet DLLs for all platforms together
[12:42 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I should have added a note to the Mantis "Dont push this in until we talk at meeting"
[12:42 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I think MrBlue has them all ready, correct?
[12:43 PM PT]  Misterblue Waves: I"ll push new versions today
[12:43 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal :)
[12:43 PM PT]  Misterblue Waves: was trying to get a straight ARM version (for those people running on PIs) but that can wait
[12:44 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal the *ther* ARM (not Apple)
[12:44 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Gavin has one of those kicking around
[12:45 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal there was one other here at meeting who does Pi work
[12:45 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I agree not a priority
[12:46 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: think we did got last via mantis also
[12:48 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal thankfully the other ARM uses .so and not .dylib
[12:48 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Just a reminder before that the OpenSimulator Community Conference is on this weekend. Check the calendar of events at as there are a few events listed that take place starting on the 7th. By looking at the calendar now you won't miss anything. :)
[12:49 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Lyr, Is there any comments you would like to add about the conference?
[12:50 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: yes
[12:50 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Go ahead.
[12:50 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: it is this weekend and here are some links to the schedule.
[12:50 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: our Core Dev VIP is 7 am on Saturday and all times are eastery
[12:50 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: eastern
[12:51 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: the VIP is 11:45 and you are welcome to attend it
[12:51 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: and our Viewer Panel is at 12:30 pm on Saturday
[12:51 PM PT]  Web Rain: there is no economy panel this year? snifff
[12:51 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Here is the detailed schedule
[12:51 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: hehe, we have a few who will speak on related topics
[12:51 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: but no one proposed one this year, Web
[12:52 PM PT]  Web Rain: :(
[12:52 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: you are always welcome to submit and we do it eash year. The site is and the call opens in October
[12:52 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: we have a live stream to YouTube
[12:52 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: in case you get busy, so you can still join us
[12:52 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Is there a core group panel or Q
[12:53 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal or just the 7am one
[12:53 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: and for the panels, the opening one is in Skype, the viewer panel may be in Discord or Skype
[12:53 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: there is a Core Dev Vip at 11:45
[12:53 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: on Saturday
[12:53 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal ah ok thx
[12:53 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: I love the sessions and try to live transcribe some of them
[12:53 PM PT]  Web Rain: for sure i will be there this year ^^
[12:53 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: many thanks for your wonderful support and hard work each year
[12:54 PM PT]  Misterblue Waves: you said the timezone is EST?
[12:54 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: you make this magical place possible
[12:54 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: no
[12:54 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Pacific
[12:54 PM PT]  Misterblue Waves: k
[12:54 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: same as server time in most of our lands here, all times are pacific
[12:55 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: You can reach me on Discord under LyrLobo or at
[12:55 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: here is a visual schedule as a glance
[12:55 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: thank you
[12:56 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: it is just my working schedule and the 1:30 Saturday session is now on empathy
[12:56 PM PT]  Web Rain: thank you :)
[12:56 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'm always amazed at how good are the live transcriptions of the talks.
[12:56 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I know I couldn't type that fast. :)
[12:56 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: 115 wpm some days *laughs*
[12:56 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: but i'm a little OCD and like to think while typing
[12:57 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: we are thankful and looking forward to our community gathering...lots of music, dancing, and celebration
[12:57 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: live performers, DJs, and artists as well as educator meetups
[12:57 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Lyr, I think that's a lot faster than me. IIRC, I average about 60wpm and probably a little bit more.
[12:57 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: and researcherse
[12:58 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: well i make mistakes as I look at a couple of monitors while typing and get distracted *grins*
[12:58 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I do about 60wpm with 6 fingers and lots of typos :)
[12:58 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: There are three music events on the 8th and an educator meet up on the 7th.
[12:59 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: That's why I suggest chcking the schedule in advance in case there are any educators here or those who would like to get together with other people interested in the OpenSimulator project.
[1:00 PM PT]  Web Rain: just for infos, i played a bit around DTL/NSL to add the cryptocurrencies support... i also upped it to dotnet... i did a proof of work video to show that if you are interested...
[1:01 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Did you fix the database connection handling?
[1:01 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: ty, Web. Where can people see the video?
[1:01 PM PT]  Web Rain:
[1:02 PM PT]  Web Rain: i worked the thing in a way to facilitate migration from fiat to freedom ^^
[1:04 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: RL is going to be calling on me soon. Any last minute items for today?
[1:05 PM PT]  Web Rain: no for me just a big fat thank yoy to Cuga 
[1:06 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: thank you!
[1:06 PM PT]  Web Rain: also the Opensim team ^^
[1:06 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: see you all this weekend and next week *waves*
[1:06 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: remember if you have a favorite shopping place, send it to me
[1:06 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: I'm making my list for the tour
[1:07 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: I'm such a fashion statement, you know *winks*
[1:07 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Lyr. I will be there if I can. Health issues amongst the family and a family birthday may make present difficulties in my attending.
[1:07 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: ok, not *laughs*
[1:07 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: understandable, Andrew
[1:07 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: family always comes first
[1:07 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: and it is a community event and a joy
[1:07 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: we'll miss you if you do, but also look for you
[1:07 PM PT]  Web Rain: i have just a question (why the Authorization header is blocked?)
[1:07 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Before I get called away I will say think you all for attending. See you at the OSCC this weekend. Have fun there. See you back here again next week back.
[1:08 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal See you this weekend! :)
[1:08 PM PT]  Web Rain: i will be there :) i missed years :(
[1:08 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... I haven't looked at the headers in a while. Is it blocked or is it some sort of permissions issue?
[1:09 PM PT]  Web Rain: no the authorization is blocked bur " Authorization" ?!?
[1:09 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: oops
[1:09 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: rl calls
[1:09 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: have fun ppç
[1:09 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: thanks
[1:09 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and ppl
[1:09 PM PT]  Web Rain: @   :)
[1:09 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal tc Ubit
[1:10 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Web, that looks a bit like the noise from a modem upon hangup. :)
[1:11 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I'm going to head out too.. take care all :)
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