[11:16 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: welcome :)
[11:17 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Poof
[11:17 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Have a look at this change Ubit
[11:17 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: not guilty!
[11:17 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://github.com/secondlife/viewer/commit/d00b6e4216bb308ae075d90dfa871c902d765f8d
[11:17 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: We had a commit, fix up some constraints in light projectors, that was about it really.
[11:17 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: They have hardcoded 4 UUIDs that are now settings in the viewer
[11:17 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: StartUpChannelUUID
NearByChatChannelUUID
NotificationChannelUUID
AlertChannelUUID
[11:18 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is this something we need the viewer to be able to set in opensim?
[11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that is for vivox interface?
[11:18 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or can we use heir hardcoded UUIDs
[11:18 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is used int ehcahnnalemanager code
[11:18 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: Hello *smiles*
[11:18 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: hi lyr
[11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but voice?
[11:18 AM PT] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: hihi lyr
[11:19 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: possibly
[11:19 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: never seen those ids i think
[11:19 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: llviewermessage
[11:19 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LLNotificationsUI::LLChannelManager::getInstance()->killToastsFromChannel(LLUUID(
gSavedSettings.getString("NotificationChannelUUID")), OfferMatcher(blocked_id));
[11:20 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: hmm notifications..
[11:20 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I frankly had not seen them before either and I could not find any reference to them in opensim server side
[11:20 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so
[11:20 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I suppose we probalby don't care
[11:20 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: or they made some changes we never did notice
[11:20 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:20 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-))
[11:21 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is absolutely a possibility given the mess that repository is by now
[11:22 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I do recall that there are pseudo uuids for the various channels, including the one that sends group notices, but I think we use the same uuids, if they are used at all. Might just be something that isn't actually needed
[11:22 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well guess we need to see what breaks :)
[11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: if viewers have hardcoded things, we need to have same, ofc
[11:23 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: hi jamie
[11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: we have those "magic things" in a lot of things
[11:23 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is a load of hardcoded crap in there, and user settings that are not needed
[11:24 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: such as anything marketplace
[11:24 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or pathfinding
[11:24 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeha can be that also
[11:24 AM PT] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi all sorry i'm late
[11:24 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: send alert should use notification channel I think, similar thing for script writing to owner, but there are no uuids in any of that so might just be unused stuff
[11:25 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Some of that might even sit on libomv
[11:25 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is used in the viewer code, but they seem to be of the opinion the UUIDs can be hardcoded
[11:25 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is a good assumption for the one instance of SecondLife
[11:26 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I suppose if we actually need them in the future that code can easily be reverted
[11:26 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well they keep changing soem hardcoded uuids like for default skies etc
[11:27 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: think i had to change one recently ??
[11:27 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeou did
[11:27 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: settings such as AudioLevelWind I suppose is useful to not hardcode
[11:28 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Should be easy test if they are really concerning the notifications, cause you use send alert on region to see if that gets through, although I only see that sending bytes, no fixed uuid or even a field for one anywhere
[11:28 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: clientview just has send bytes to client
[11:29 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Same with ossl errors just refer to channel by int not uuid
[11:30 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Meanwhile I have some good news to report
[11:30 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002 listens
[11:31 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: After fiddling around trying to make prebuild happy I just copied over the csproj from a working xunit test project and voila visual studio decided it wanted to play along
[11:31 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That means I can now start actually re-writing and writing new tests
[11:31 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The issue of how to make it play along still remains as prebuild has a fixed way of creating the project files from the xml, meaning two options
[11:32 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Either editing runprebuild scripts to add the csproj file and the reference in the sln for it or edit prebuild itself to write specific test projects
[11:34 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: apologies for my appearance
[11:34 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: not used to hg ing
[11:34 AM PT] Jagga Meredith: you're wearing clothes. that willdo
[11:34 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: I understand
[11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yes we are ignoring you clifford.Hanger
[11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i mean your appearance ;)
[11:35 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: lmao
[11:35 AM PT] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: ^^
[11:37 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: am I allowed to ask questions?
[11:37 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: ls
[11:37 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: I think that was a question, ...
[11:37 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: lol
[11:37 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: yes *grins*
[11:37 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: if it is on topic, everyone will be happy *smiles*
[11:38 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: always feel welcome to ask
[11:38 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: didnt want to interript anyones flow
[11:38 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: We love questions.
[11:38 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: Feel welcome to ask
[11:39 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: ok here goes 1) voice
[11:39 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: 2) do we know anyone who can code recode reverse enginner vivox?
[11:39 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: 3) costs involved?
[11:40 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: You really want to know if there is an alternative to Vivox and what it costs, right?
[11:40 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: 3 little ?s
[11:40 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: yes
[11:40 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: In a project I supported long ago, we tested other voice options with mixed and less favorable results
[11:40 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no point on reverse vivox
[11:40 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: They are sticking it to you also, eh?
[11:40 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: i have read previous minutes
[11:40 AM PT] Lyr Lobo nods
[11:40 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: There is a guy who reverse engineered slvoice.exe, but he only got it working on Windows.
[11:41 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I think Mumble was tried at some time in the past.
[11:41 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: yes i read that
[11:41 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Needs help on Linux and Mac
[11:41 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: issue is about voice servers.. no point on reverse vivox if they don't open a server for you
[11:41 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: That would be a start for linux people - where is his source?
[11:41 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Right.
[11:41 AM PT] Joe Magarac: You can run Vivox on Linux under Wine. It works quite well.
[11:41 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: ok if we knew the rough cost
[11:41 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Isn't the Muble open source ancient by now
[11:41 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: as i said IMA ppl was doing Echo, a implementation of mumble
[11:42 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Even with the viewer running native on Linux.
[11:42 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no idea of current state
[11:42 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: yes
[11:42 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: we would know what the future might hold?
[11:42 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: We have a mantis ticket that goes through some of that already and the options that are out there
[11:42 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: yes
[11:42 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: does it give an idea of costs?
[11:43 AM PT] Joe Magarac: It's worth looking at voice options again. Vivox is part of Unity and cannot be trusted.
[11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( think they found a use rights problem with ICE the protocol used to talk with mumble servers.. seems it is not that free.. but i was just told.. on a oscc meeting years ago )
[11:43 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The bigger question would be not what it would cost, but how much the community would be willing to spend on it. How important voice is for them.
[11:43 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Joe, what I read was that they are raising prices drastically, so even Cliff is likely to have to pay real money now
[11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: vivox can't be trusted also becasue they told me directly they do not what anythign related to opensim
[11:44 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the problem with both macOS and increasingly Windows is that Apple and Microsoft does not allow such code to run clinet side without a lot of wrangling
[11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: see... they need to make $$$ and opensim model does not fit on that
[11:44 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: exactly
[11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: unity is not there for opensource projects..
[11:44 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: but are we talking $5000
[11:44 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: or $50000
[11:45 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Gotta pay the suits
[11:45 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: plus the code to get voice going on the two systems will have to tap into wildly different system libraries
[11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well unity costs are around $200000 min.. no idea abotu vivox only
[11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well about last week code changes
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i did accept a little fix on lsl projector focus range
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: we had 0,20 and should be -20 20
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: there was some confusion abotu that, also on our mail list
[11:46 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 20 is full focus and smaller numbers are blurry?
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: bc the code change was offered as a github push request
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that also included almost all changes a opensim fork did :)
[11:47 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Oh, negative focus so you can do fake distant objects?
[11:47 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: oo ok
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no idea joe..
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: it is on lsl wiki..
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: wel on viewers actually
[11:47 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh, that would be useful for making lamps
[11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: if you look to the setting is does -20 20
[11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: on fs at least
[11:48 AM PT] Joe Magarac: There is a way to abuse projectors to create a portal which appears to have some distant thing behind it.
[11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: oh?
[11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: wel i did not went look in details
[11:49 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I've seen a demo, but would have to find it.
[11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: just checked range on viewer
[11:49 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I'll have to experiment with it for my lamps :-)
[11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so i did refuse that PR and did apply the range fix by hand
[11:50 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: taken and on grid
[11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: https://github.com/opensim/opensim/pull/14
[11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that was it..
[11:51 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Seen some messy pull requests, but this one takes the cake this year
[11:51 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I like his photo
[11:51 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: hi cuga
[11:51 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Contribution policies and processes are on the wiki by the way
[11:51 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: hey Cliff
[11:51 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Oh, does anyone here do anything with metaverse-standards.org?
[11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: in fact can't use github PRs.. that is not our main repo ( could but would be confusing)
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not me joe :)
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not sure abotu Lyr.. that seems afk
[11:53 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Joe, I don't think that trainwreck concerns us much, different/wrong idea of "metaverse" if they have an idea at all
[11:53 AM PT] Joe Magarac: OK. I signed up Animats and now I get invites to forums on avatar interoperatbility and such.
[11:53 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: lol
[11:54 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: given teh board members, I'd say no
[11:54 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://metaverse-standards.org/about/board-members/
[11:54 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Oh look paid memberships, it's IMA 2.0 xD
[11:55 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably someone hoping to latch on to FB - err Meta, to suck $$$ out if it
[11:55 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Bingo
[11:55 AM PT] Lyr Lobo chuckles
[11:55 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: caught me working
[11:56 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: anyways
[11:56 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I reverted all teh profile code last week
[11:56 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: Joe, I'm not in that organization. i was in an IEEE standards group
[11:56 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: avatar profile that is, so now it is working as before for the opensim version
[11:56 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Nice
[11:56 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: there are several that represent standards. it is not easy to keep track *grins*
[11:57 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only need to add back oensim support in the network manager, and we are hopefully good to go
[11:57 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: opensim even
[11:57 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I know a few people that will be happy when that goes public
[11:57 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Myself included
[11:58 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The version running on test on SL is being constantly downloaded to my surprise; both macOS and Windows versions
[11:58 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: is this :
[11:58 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=shortlog
[11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah sl viewer made a mess with profiles
[11:59 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: the place for the latest dev code?
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: we need the older TPVs code.. not the new sl thing
[11:59 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Have to go, next meeting.
[11:59 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: bye Joe
[11:59 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I don't get why they changed it to something that is heavier sending more bytes even
[11:59 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Seems they should do best reducing network overhead
[12:00 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have pretty much every old repository up and running on http://dayturn.com:5000
[12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well they only had http one
[12:00 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: both HG and git
[12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: i mean website one
[12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: they decide to put in back on viewer UI
[12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: and did that new mess
[12:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: i told abotu some issues here, months ago
[12:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( why i did refuse to follow those changes )
[12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: so we do need old TPVs code.. or new code with fixes for us
[12:02 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The idea was good, partial update, but execution a total trainwreck as usual
[12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: nahh the old code was better
[12:03 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: supposely they where coping fs profiles code.. but.. well.. something
[12:04 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: not going to repeat what i told months ago ( well if i did remember ;) )
[12:04 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: Correction, noted that AvaCon is a Principle Member of the Metaverse Standards Forum and I joined their research team last month *grins*
[12:04 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: crazy busy tho
[12:05 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, I'm crazy busy also, need to run to RL. Buy all!
[12:05 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: bye Kayaker
[12:05 PM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: bye Kayaker
[12:05 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Laters, Kay
[12:06 PM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: thanks all of you for what you do for OS
[12:07 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: any other issue?
[12:07 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: nothing new here
[12:07 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: Thank you!
[12:07 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: Take care, Clifford
[12:07 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ok rl calls.. so see you all next week :)
[12:07 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: Many thanks for your wonderful support. See you next week
