Chat log from the meeting on 2023-09-19

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[11:33 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: welcome :)
[11:34 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: as many noticed, we haf no code changes during last week
[11:34 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: had even
[11:34 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester The vacation continues I guess, I got almost nothing done either
[11:35 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well rl things and such :(
[11:35 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: also no major bug reports
[11:36 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: I'm still plugging away on Sharpview and trying to document exactly what happens as the viewer connects to a region. I have a state machine model now.
[11:37 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Speakng of bugs, I found a yellow jacket nest in RL yesterday, only got stung once before getting away.
[11:37 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal *gives Andrew's avatar some vitamin C
[11:38 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: having losts of fun joe :)
[11:39 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester What is probably worth mentioning is that since last week Unity, who now own Vivox, have decided to jump off a cliff and nuke their entire reputation by making ridiculous pricing changes. How this will affect Vivox is unknown.
[11:40 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird There is a YT video of building foam aganst such nests Kayaker
[11:40 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: Oh, Unity owns Vivox. Did not know that. Ouch.
[11:40 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: it does for some years now joe :)
[11:41 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: Open source alternatives?
[11:41 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: prices where abotu vivox or all their products?
[11:41 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: still none joe
[11:41 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: we do have freeswich..  but not that good
[11:42 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird see all the OSL conferences the last 8 years for opensource alternatives
[11:42 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester We have two mantis tickets that discuss options and various projects that were started, but nothing concrete
[11:42 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: we had a old support for mumble
[11:42 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: OK, so Mumble came and went. What was wrong?
[11:43 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: IMA ppl working on a new implementation, but still not public
[11:43 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: mumble needs a replacement for the slvoice.exe
[11:43 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird B)
[11:43 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester IMA isn't doing anything, they never did
[11:43 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and we did need to do it by hand bakc the
[11:43 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: back then
[11:44 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: for many users that was confusing.. so..  wnet out of use
[11:44 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: IMA?
[11:44 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but is the only free solution that does 3d voice
[11:44 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: same ppl doing the scengate viewer
[11:45 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Well not exactly, there is Teaspeak
[11:45 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: scenegate ( a variant of alchemy =
[11:45 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird the problem with all these open source alternatives is they throw in a lot of proprietary functionality to make it competitive and and something people find wirthwhile paying for
[11:45 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well and on multigrid environments we have the compatibility issue
[11:46 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird that too
[11:46 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: vivox did provide a commun ground
[11:46 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but well no longer free
[11:46 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and did refuse to give me access to the dev portal when i told then it was for opensim
[11:46 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird Unity is in a massive row over payments these days anyway
[11:47 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( tehre is nothing therr for opensim they told me )
[11:47 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Ultimately likely that we need to build a new viewer plugin and server to connect it to and very likely that can't run in OpenSim directly either and probably should not
[11:47 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I am looking at Teaspeak, but I don't speak abstract c   yet
[11:47 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well unity needs to make $
[11:47 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Is there any need for the
[11:47 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: what to say...
[11:47 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham server side to need to worry about the voice?
[11:48 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: good they did gave us access for so many years for free
[11:48 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird yes
[11:48 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: server needs to  manage logins, cre3dencials, channels etc
[11:48 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird they never sent me any payment claim
[11:48 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: like per parcel channels.. etc
[11:49 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird group chat
[11:49 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester For voice calls interconnecting between users handling things on region level would be a massive pain to implement, so likely it would be a per-grid thing and on that level
[11:49 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: not sure we do have voice on group lol
[11:49 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird we don't, but we would want to have
[11:49 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well yeah
[11:49 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: I hear that the IMA guy working on voice got a replacement for slvoice.exe working in Windows, got discouraged when it didn't work with Linux or max clients.
[11:49 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Going through the trouble of building a new thing might as well go for full support
[11:49 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: Right, an open source alternative means running a voice server on a low-latency host.
[11:50 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but personal and per parcel/region would be fine
[11:50 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yes joe there is also that extra cost for grids
[11:50 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Anybody here up on voice codecs in Linux? Mac?
[11:50 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm there may also be the clones of HiFi audio
[11:50 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: Huh.
[11:51 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: the name was hifi no? :)
[11:51 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham A lot of the Ham people are basing their voice stuff on Asterisk PBX and its codecs, etc. but I don't think there are any stereo or multi-channel codecs there
[11:51 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird build a telegram client into the viewer and use their voice chat
[11:51 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: High Fidelity pivoted to an audio product.
[11:51 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: guess main codec now is opus
[11:52 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: on the free market
[11:52 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( opus does no do 3d directly i think )
[11:52 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: I think you have to accep that if you want open source, you have to run a voice server somewhere.
[11:52 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: bc that it weas speex ?
[11:52 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird we need to lobby the EU to force Apple to open iMessage and Facetime
[11:52 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yes joe that is a must
[11:53 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: think on muble there are still services you can rent
[11:53 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird now that the EU got USB-C and replaceable batteries sorted, they need a new challenge
[11:53 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: That's useful.
[11:53 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester The serverside only needs to support channels and spatial audio, the bigger issue is the viewer plugin since that isn't open source
[11:53 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and on other SIP based solutions freeswitch may use
[11:53 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: The new challenge for Apple is that the EU says they have to allow other app stores in under 6 months.
[11:54 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I like that one
[11:54 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ofc the most used viewers we have only support viviox
[11:54 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I fully support it
[11:54 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: snd the long outdated viviox 4x
[11:54 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird Apple babysitting everyone is getting old
[11:54 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: The interface in the viewer sends XML to and from the Vivox client, right?
[11:54 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: So something that talks the same XML could be a drop in replacement.
[11:54 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham
[11:55 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: it has own protocol joe.. and beening ll, possible xml ues
[11:55 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: there is a old public spec of that protocol joe
[11:55 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: OK.
[11:56 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: Anyway, looks like time to be thinking about moving away from Vivox, before Vixox moves away from us.
[11:56 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: for old SL
[11:56 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Joe, it already has for most of us
[11:56 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I mean technically if you have an afternoon of time, wireshark and a working Vivox setup I don't think it would be that hard to document most of te protocol
[11:56 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Encryption being the biggest pain point
[11:57 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: Why>
[11:57 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well vivox moved away from version 4x long ago
[11:57 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: Legal problems?
[11:57 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: guess only keeping servers for ll
[11:58 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: Gotta go, next meeting. Bye.
[11:58 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: have fun
[11:58 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird plus SLVoice.exe is a black box
[11:58 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Not a big one though
[11:59 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Ain't that much in it, still annoying to break open though
[11:59 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird big enough that nobody have reversed it
[12:00 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Didn't have a good enough reason or enough monetary incentives I guess
[12:00 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird yep
[12:00 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird Maybe Lisa Laxton (not sure if that is spelled right) can have a go at it
[12:00 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: RL calling, I must run
[12:01 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal ct Kayak
[12:01 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Buy all!
[12:01 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Lisa can barely tie her shoes
[12:02 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well rl calls me
[12:02 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: any other opensim issue?
[12:03 PM PT]  Jamie.Jordan have a great week yall
[12:03 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal no new issues
[12:03 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ok see you all nex week if not before :)
[12:03 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird nobody tried MySQL 8.1 yet, right?
[12:04 PM PT]  Selby.Evans Bye all
[12:04 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird bye
[12:04 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: fell free to enjoy the openbar... all drinks are fresh ( as 3 years ago..)
[12:04 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird hehe
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