Chat log from the meeting on 2023-08-15

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[11:00 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:01 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:01 AM PT]  Selby.Evans hi everyone
[11:01 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Cuga
[11:01 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Hi everybody
[11:03 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Hi *smiles*
[11:03 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Recap of the week, some minor fixes, Firestorm finally released a fixed version for profiles, that's pretty much it
[11:03 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: New native version of ubode for Windows.
[11:03 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I did make some progress on xunit tests, but still nothing solid to present
[11:05 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Arielle.
[11:05 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: HYi Andrew
[11:05 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: Hi all
[11:06 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yes, during last week i made a little fix on a estate permission that was preventing sits :)
[11:08 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: That's it for the summary of the past weeks code related activity.
[11:08 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and ubode had a issue on boxmesh collisions
[11:09 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: aparently from abug that did not got into linux compile
[11:09 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal oh Ubode was updated?
[11:09 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i mean in the linux binaries in use
[11:09 AM PT]  Joe Magarac: Thanks all. Must run.
[11:09 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal oh only on Linux?
[11:09 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: not sure abotu arm ones
[11:09 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal thats what I was wondering
[11:10 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal is there something I could test to check?
[11:10 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: no.. the bug was added to its git master
[11:10 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, tc Joe.
[11:10 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: abotu one year ago..  seems the linux code used then did not included it
[11:11 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: possible the ones you did for arm did :(
[11:12 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel i did push the fix also on ubode sources, in opensim-libs repo
[11:12 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal something I can test to check if it has bug? or just rebuild anyway?
[11:12 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal for arm
[11:13 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal its pretty easy to rebuild from opensim-libs, if needed
[11:13 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: a car using a main collider done with a box with tapper  will blow up colling with a simple blox
[11:14 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ie a prim like this ( internally done as a mesh ), that several cars do use
[11:14 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal whats a tapper?
[11:14 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester taper*
[11:15 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Ohhh
[11:15 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: taper parameter = -0.1
[11:15 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I do that all the time :)
[11:15 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal and my sim did blow up
[11:15 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal ok I will rebuild ubODE
[11:15 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal for arm
[11:15 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i did test that a year ago and was fine
[11:15 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal from opensim-libs
[11:15 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: it only blows up afer a bit
[11:16 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: the car jsut goes crazin into sky etd
[11:16 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal yeah we did a lot of crashing cars at demolition derby
[11:16 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal ubODE was not stable for unknown reasons
[11:16 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal had to switch back to Bullet
[11:16 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal that is likely why
[11:17 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: as i said the linux version compiled at that time, did not got that bug
[11:17 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, you were just putting on more of a show than expected. :)
[11:17 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal it did take 5-10 mins of crashing cars before sim went down
[11:17 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: so is this shortlog  ever going to be fixed reactivated?
[11:17 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: fear release has that issue
[11:17 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel sim does not go down
[11:17 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: just the car collision is pretty strange..
[11:17 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal ok then issue I saw probably something else
[11:18 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: seeing the dayturm one out of date too?
[11:18 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: you are sent into sky
[11:18 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Development is happening on dotnet6 branch, master is currently hibernating until path forward is clear
[11:18 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal never sawe that
[11:19 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: is or has there been any development other than small fixes?
[11:19 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal so different issue I guess. I wont rebuild ubODE for arm then
[11:19 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Explains why I don't get commit messages any more
[11:19 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well that is a ugly bug that needs fix :(
[11:19 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester We discuss the changes made here each week in more detail than the commit messages, you can read the logs on the wiki
[11:20 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yes  git master is been idle for months
[11:20 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: where are the commit messages though so people see that there is still opensim development?
[11:20 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: all recent commits went to dotnet6 branch
[11:20 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I see commits in the IRC feed
[11:21 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: easy to see for example at
[11:21 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: any new upcoming features?
[11:21 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: There are also messages that get posted to the opensim-dev IRC channel after a commit was made.
[11:22 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Material support when LL finally makes up their mind what that'll actually entail, until then minor fixes and whatever else Ubit has hidden away
[11:22 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: any new upcoming features or is opensim in long term maintenance mode?
[11:23 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: not sure long term maintnance mode applies to beta versions :)
[11:23 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: Ubi9t? You're in control of this. Any response to the community ?
[11:24 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: only seen you asking :)
[11:24 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I don't think it is one or the other. There are bugs to fix, when LL has new features, devs here scramble to add them or not
[11:24 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: well who is the most likely to/
[11:25 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Someone actually doing work is the most likely to
[11:25 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: but even so, we are not sl  and allowed to have features they dont
[11:25 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeah we will not just follow all SL changes
[11:26 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Especially if their changes are a trainwreck
[11:26 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: in several cases, just because we can't
[11:26 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: yes but not seeing anything beyond sl either
[11:26 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: how about HG offline messages?
[11:27 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: that should be doable
[11:27 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: beyond sl is the old issue..  depends on viewer side also :(
[11:27 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham SL generates enough garbage to keep every truck in the garbage business full and moving - until we just decide to ignore them completely, we are likely to keep running in place. Well, that, and until we have a full-featured viewer that will keep up with us, not Linden
[11:27 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester offline im already works, hg or local doesn't matter, if they are configured correctly
[11:27 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: fear there are a few other HG issues to fix before offline messages
[11:28 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and yal some do work.. except group messages?
[11:28 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: like what? and what are the priorities?
[11:28 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well groups on HG are a bit suicidal things
[11:29 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Groups really does need a redo from scratch, but yeah fun project that ...
[11:29 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: i have not seen offline messages work on HG. Always get a message user is not online but nothing that it will be saved
[11:29 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: fear HG tried to go things it should had never do
[11:29 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Then it's not properly configured
[11:30 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: somethings will scale badly ... and are a disaster with users that don't last long
[11:30 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: even frinds case..
[11:30 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I'm surprised every day that a group with over 1000 members works at all
[11:30 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: where is the wiki for prope configuration then/? I would assume Fred  would  know how on dreamgrids
[11:31 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester If you assume you make an ... well you know the saying
[11:31 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Most config is explained right in the files actually
[11:31 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: i dont think it can be done in the present state
[11:31 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: adding a brind means addind several http connections to update online/offline status for example
[11:32 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: now.. many friends URI are short lived...
[11:32 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I got an offline IM from Lyr the other day sent to my email even, so that definitely works across HG
[11:32 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Fred adds a lot of proprietary code that isn't in repo
[11:32 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: like from grids with short lifetime on hg standalones
[11:32 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: was that sent from within the grid you received it on?
[11:32 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: that means a lot of failed http connects.. that are just heavy load---
[11:33 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: i can come into osgrid  with an hg account and send a message to a osgrid account  and it gets saved
[11:33 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: but not if i send it from the grid i am on
[11:33 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hg just does not scale
[11:33 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: get that anyway Ubit
[11:33 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Sounds like your grid isn't configured right, then
[11:34 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so somethings will just never work, or work well
[11:34 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I show no login for Lyr so she must have sent it from here
[11:34 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: my grid is configured fine and Ubit even just said the protocols  for it to work are not existrent
[11:34 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: I get messages from other worlds, yes
[11:34 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: and send to other worlds
[11:34 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i did not said that
[11:34 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: like
[11:34 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Then how can Lyr send to us over on Zetaworlds?
[11:35 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i said some things do not scale or will fail..
[11:35 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: adding a brind means addind several http connections to update online/offline status for example
[11:35 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Live, real time and stored messages both
[11:35 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo nods
[11:35 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: for example HG will be bad if you just jump to other grids, not returning home
[11:36 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: if  log at grid H then go to A then B..  most likely offline notifications etc will not track you.. etc
[11:36 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: but that should be fixable with a phone home message  thing to  remove presence if account no longer send an update
[11:37 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well and A nd B may be other versions.. that that will just not work well with H
[11:37 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: etc
[11:37 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: my grid is messaged if i pick up an inventory item elsewhere
[11:38 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: so why cant my avatar send a I'm alive every 5 minutes to home grid?
[11:38 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: and leave a forwarding address if a friend comes online
[11:39 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Go ahead and write that for us, Arielle
[11:39 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Both ends
[11:39 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: bc 5minutes lag on that is basicly useless
[11:39 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Send and receive
[11:39 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: i can imagine it so up to the coders to write it in computer code
[11:39 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and 5 secs is just spam
[11:39 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and is not how HG was idealized sadly
[11:39 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: 5 minutes is better than not at all
[11:40 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Arielle, if you know how to do it, do it yourself.
[11:41 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal what would be the purpose of that
[11:41 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: i dont know how to translate english to german but if i can think it in english it is possible for a german to understand it  if it is translated
[11:41 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: computer code works the same no?
[11:41 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester xD
[11:41 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Not even vaguely
[11:41 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal not at all
[11:41 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: oh well think about it. Copders are translators
[11:41 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham No
[11:41 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: coders
[11:41 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal fraid not
[11:42 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Completely false
[11:42 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal only figuratively
[11:42 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but main HG issue is short lived and unreliable identifications
[11:42 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Only if you have zero idea what is really going on
[11:42 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: it is just impossible to keep track of a avatar ID
[11:43 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Ubit, the problem with that is mostly down to irresponsible people that leave dead endpoints behind, that's a big issue that sadly doesn't get much attention
[11:43 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: we have computers that keep track of 8 billion   people and you cant kleep track of a few thousand?
[11:44 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I see you also have no idea how todays computers track people
[11:44 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: no but you do
[11:44 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Do I?
[11:44 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I am not about to claim that
[11:44 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: i assume it is why you are here
[11:44 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Not at all
[11:45 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I am trying to learn how to build and improve OpenSim
[11:45 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Overcome obstacles, not create them
[11:45 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: well you are arguing against what I say so assumes that you have soe idea how it does  work
[11:45 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Sending a keepalive around to ping each friend when people sometimes have 800 friends, 300 of which are dead endpoints because those grids no longer exist, but how should a computer know that. It pings them all and has to wait for timeout. Then you can't assume that a no connection means they are gone, so you cannot immediately blacklist that connection or at least not forever
[11:45 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I am pointing out that you have no idea, not that I claim to know
[11:46 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: so opensim should be limited by not allowing obstacles to be overcome
[11:46 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: well is Opensim dead or not?
[11:46 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I am saying I am not creating new ones
[11:46 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester You end up with a huge http connection pool just to get some data back and that's already a big problem with friends, creator data and other hg connections
[11:46 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: It's not dead. It is just pining for the fjords.  ;)
[11:46 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Opensim works well within its limitations
[11:46 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Not at all dead
[11:46 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: this stuff used to work back in 2015 better then it does today
[11:47 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham mmhmm - prove that
[11:47 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: i was there\
[11:47 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I said prove i
[11:47 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham it
[11:47 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: used to get creator data on  hg
[11:47 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal still get ity if that grid is online
[11:48 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham There are plenty of human created problems that we cannot program around
[11:48 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: the versions of 2015 are avaiable..  if you like them..  jsut use them
[11:48 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: depends how their hg is configured maybe? OIsgrid  creators dont show up on my dreamgrid
[11:48 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Arielle, seriously if you only come here to bash on OpenSim and make a fuzz about problems then you add nothing to this meeting and I am tired of this attitude. If you think there is an issue worth looking into make a mantis ticket with steps to reproduce the issue and we will gladly see if it can fixed. However, coming here and complaining and diminishing the free labor OpenSim receives on a daily basis by multiple developers is disrespectful and rude
[11:48 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: I love how OpenSim works today and wish to applaud the hard work of our Core Devs and the team that strengthen these updates and test them.
[11:48 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I'm seriously tired of that attitude, the folks that spend their free time on making this platform better don't deserve that attitude for their efforts
[11:49 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: well Ubit you and whatshername stated in past you would make it better then .8,2
[11:49 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Arielle, you have disqualified yourself by not making any sort of constructive statements - how about letting us deal with the reality of what we have now
[11:50 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: The server software, the grid management, and even hypergrid travel is smooth and enjoyable. I am thankful for it and feel confident teaching classes in world
[11:50 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: i have asked for stuff and been told by all of you it is not possible and yet it used to be
[11:50 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham What you wish and are shoving at us is becoming increasingly useless and irrelevant
[11:50 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester If you cannot be bothered to keep up with development, reading the meeting logs or the commit messages yet think you can make a judgment over the status of the project then you just look like a fool
[11:50 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, if you think it isn't then be specific in pointing out what used to work better that doesn't know. You can file a mantis with that information so the issue can be investigated.
[11:50 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: i barely come here anymore because so little is going on anymnore
[11:50 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Thank you, please continue
[11:51 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel think we did cover the last week code changes
[11:51 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: 5 minutes
[11:51 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester That's your view from not even bothering to check properly, we are not here to feed things on a silver platter and we already discuss the commits each week and even the upcoming features
[11:51 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Just last two weeks we had discussions about new material stuff
[11:52 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: i asked for upcoming features and heard nothing until sl makes up its mind
[11:52 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: we learned that fs last beta is now release 6.6.14
[11:52 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Yeah how exactly do you expect to just guess what they will do or write code based on some idea that they then change
[11:52 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: i used to come to these mmeetings and hear about features regardless of SL
[11:52 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Well, I suggested you come up with the code to fill your fantasies and you act like I am a martian.
[11:52 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i have no info abotu other viewers, sorry :)
[11:52 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Most features require viewer support, they too have to wait for the official repos to update
[11:53 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal when FS has a new release there are usually new features and things to add, like BOM, Bento, etc
[11:53 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: viewer devs like Beq can add code to the opensim branch regardless of the official repo
[11:53 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: cuga you will check that ubode issue on M1/arms ?
[11:54 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal how do i check?
[11:54 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Yeah, but Beq is also human and has other problems as well, something you need to take into consideration
[11:54 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: drive sucn cars againts simple boxes on ground :)
[11:54 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal collision ok
[11:54 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: which i do but if we dont ask her, it doesnt get on her  to do list
[11:54 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: if are not sent 3 regions across  it is fine
[11:54 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I implore you to go over to FS and ask for new features, they have enough on their plate trying to follow the LL shenanigans and unless there is serious merit not many suggestions make it in and that's fine
[11:55 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal oh Beq does stuff when you ask her to? Great.. I'll send you a bug for her to fix
[11:55 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: FS will state they need cooperation from the opensim devs
[11:55 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Arielle, you are welcome to go try to add stuff to their todo list. They have channels for you to do that
[11:55 AM PT]  Arielle Popstar: i know because i have asked Beq in past
[11:55 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester One or two people that spend their free time to support a platform that is niche in comparison and you expect them to just drop everything and start supporting features
[11:56 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Beq is in contact, you just don't see that cause it's not public
[11:56 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Ubit what happens with that bug o collision?
[11:56 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal something unusual?
[11:57 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I;'ll check it on arm
[11:57 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: the collision result is bad, you may be sent out in air
[11:58 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I only have 1 8x8 region nothing bordering it
[11:58 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal so fly up in air, or shoved to edge
[11:58 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal ?
[11:58 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal ok
[11:58 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal will test and let you know in irc
[11:59 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ty
[11:59 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Thanks!
[12:00 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: This hour flew by. Are there any pending questions from anyone who may need to be leaving shortly?
[12:00 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov:
[12:01 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Gonna send out another call for anyone familiar with unit testing and especially xunit to hop on irc, I could use a bit of backup on that front :)
[12:02 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I've been working with the glib unit testing framework. Probably not of much help to you Vincent.
[12:02 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham My apologies, Vincent, but I am quite thoroughly useless there
[12:02 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I did get xunit to bind finally and it actually compiled a test, but I can't seem to get it to run
[12:03 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester visual studio just eating glue instead and dotnet test just doesn't react at all
[12:03 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Something with the test adapter config or the runner, no real clue where the breaking point is at the moment, still digging
[12:04 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm in fact looking the bug may had not been pushed into git ever
[12:05 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: it is possible it was only on my work copies, so got only into win
[12:05 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Nice to catch a bug in code before it gets pushed.
[12:05 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal suggest version numbers on unmanaged lib binaries :)
[12:05 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I;ll test anyway
[12:06 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Great
[12:06 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Any last minute item(s) before we wrap up this gathering for today?
[12:07 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Thank you to everyone for your hard work and support. We appreciate it.
[12:07 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: We appreciate your appreciation. :)
[12:08 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I'm gonna run. Take care everybody
[12:08 PM PT]  Arielle Popstar: ditto
[12:08 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Later, Cuga
[12:08 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: bye *waves*
[12:08 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: have a great week
[12:08 PM PT]  Motoko.Karu see you all next week.. thanks again.
[12:08 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Cuga. tc
[12:08 PM PT]  Selby.Evans Bye all
[12:08 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: On that note I will wrap things up in my usual fashion.
[12:08 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
[12:08 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Selby.
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