Chat log from the meeting on 2023-07-25

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[11:00 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone
[11:00 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: this is as real as it gets
[11:01 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ohh arrived jiust in time.. no need for tampa to through tamaghohis at me in irc
[11:01 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: I'm into Simulation theory.  So we're in a simulation inside a simulation
[11:01 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester You weren't on irc all week, can't throw stuff at you if you aren't there now can I xD
[11:01 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: oh guess i forgot to check if hexchat was connecting
[11:01 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: like nesting dolls, Jagga
[11:02 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Jagga are you Tampa?
[11:02 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I feel like the tiniest doll in the set at times
[11:02 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: or the end of the Men in Black with the locker and the orbs of universes
[11:02 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: lately there's been less glitches here than RL.
[11:02 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: Edmonton Alberta
[11:02 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: hehe
[11:02 AM PT]  Selby.Evans Hi everyone
[11:02 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby.
[11:03 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Hi Selby... Hi all
[11:03 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester That's turning into a theme lately, glitches galore everywhere, all the bugs all at once
[11:03 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Motoko
[11:03 AM PT]  Motoko.Karu Hihi Andrew...
[11:03 AM PT]  Motoko.Karu Hihi Everyone
[11:03 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Guess it's summer so bugs to be expected or something
[11:03 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: They aren't bugs. Just unexpected features.
[11:04 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Well viewer crash a feature to get me off the computer lol
[11:04 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:04 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Speaking of, after last week's meeting Ubit added the missing constants for linkplaysound
[11:04 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester So we got those now yay
[11:04 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: going to pharmacy after this - running out of red pills
[11:05 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Just try the blue one - just once
[11:05 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal yay
[11:05 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I always forget which pill is for what effect.
[11:05 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well RL is on fire everywhere
[11:05 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham And the ones that mother gives you/don't do anything at all
[11:06 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but north italy that got wind over 200Km/h
[11:06 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Song lyric
[11:06 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: yeah, I've been wearing a mask.  I'm surrounded
[11:06 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo grins at Orbert
[11:06 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: good regions will not do winds that fast
[11:06 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal how about CLICK_ACTION_DISABLED?
[11:06 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Nice one Orbert
[11:06 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo sympathizes with Jagga
[11:06 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham A little Airplane for the head, Lyr
[11:06 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: love it
[11:06 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester That too Cuga
[11:06 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Grace Slick ftw!
[11:07 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal oh good, didnt see that in the notes
[11:07 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Oh wow, it never occured to me to ask my DR for a prescription to red or blue pills....
[11:07 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Hello Cuga
[11:07 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I was just listening to After Bathign at Baxters
[11:07 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Hi Selby
[11:07 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal their best alnbum imho
[11:07 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo grins
[11:07 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Some people reading the transcript of this meeting are probably scratching their heads and wondering what we are talking about. :)
[11:08 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: or that  we are music lovers
[11:08 AM PT]  Motoko.Karu :)
[11:08 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: they must know we're barking mad just to be here
[11:08 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo chuckles and winks
[11:08 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:09 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I am not sure if the click action thing needs more code than just the constant, me thinks it might need specific handling to properly disable all click action before it does anything, but I haven't found the correct spot to add that yet if it is even needed
[11:09 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I hinestly donlt see how anyone would care of it's differebt than CLICK_ACTION_NONE
[11:09 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: This is odd. I tried to pull the latest changes for the dotnet6 branch and it isn't letting me do that.
[11:10 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: you've been naught and on timeout
[11:10 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: hehe
[11:10 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'm getting "no matching host key type found". That's a message I've not seen before.
[11:10 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: I wondered
[11:10 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Well it is technically slightly different so it might need different handling to not pass touches or something
[11:11 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal yeah
[11:11 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Somewhere between the client view part and the actual scene handling, I gave up looking the other day as something else came up
[11:12 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Do the docs state how touches are handled in NONE vs DISABLED as far as passing along the touch?
[11:12 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Far as I understand it from that disabled is meant to do nothing, not even pass touches on, it's a complete road block I think
[11:12 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal
[11:12 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal "No touches detected or passed."
[11:13 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal with NONE, ".. when the prim is touched, touch events are triggered"
[11:13 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, I see.
[11:13 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal so yeah I guess passing touch events os the only diff
[11:14 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: think that is a viewer side only thing
[11:15 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: regions only store the value and tell them
[11:15 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal makes sense
[11:15 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ....
[11:16 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: public void llSetClickAction(int action)
            m_host.ClickAction = (byte)action;
            m_host.ParentGroup.HasGroupChanged = true;
[11:16 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ...
[11:16 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: set it, store, tell users..
[11:16 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:16 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: (delayed store )
[11:16 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal so then no new code, just let server pass DISABLED to client
[11:16 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal should be easy to test
[11:17 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: not sure i did update this region with the constants
[11:17 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm better not try to do it with you here.. ;)
[11:18 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Which means the viewer has to obey the flag, which I am not 100% trust on
[11:18 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal :)
[11:18 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal should work 100% on viewer if truly client side only
[11:18 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal works on FS in SL
[11:19 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Adding checks always means adding weight if only a few instructions
[11:19 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well suing the integers works here
[11:19 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal if ite=geres work then its just the constant
[11:19 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal easy peasy
[11:20 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal very easy to test
[11:20 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: CLICK_ACTION_DISABLED = 8;
[11:21 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Adding a if (click_action_disabled) return; should not add much is my thinking, better be safe there
[11:21 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: what add if ??
[11:21 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: regions do NOTHING with that
[11:22 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: unless you are talking about viewer side :)
[11:22 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester In part that processes touch, relying on viewer to obey the flag essentially
[11:23 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I never fully trust viewers to obey such things is all
[11:23 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal suggest just adding the constant and testing. If it works 100% then no need for server side logic
[11:24 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: constant is on  code.. jsut not here
[11:24 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: has i said can test with 8
[11:25 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal there are bigger bugs out there to worry about :)
[11:25 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, there are.
[11:25 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal but it is nice to fix easy things
[11:26 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal feels good :)
[11:26 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal MrBlue was feeling doom and gloom over the Bullet bug I showed him
[11:27 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal thats a tough one
[11:27 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester There is a german saying "Kleinvieh macht auch Mist" even a bunch of small things can add up to a big annoyance, I like to fix what I can when I am already in a part of the code
[11:28 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: the tpuch thing may not be a easy thing to fix on bullet now
[11:28 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: (opensim side of bullet)
[11:28 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal yeah, Im not sure whats going on there
[11:28 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal MrBlue thinks there might be some bad code lingering somewhere to cause that
[11:29 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal he was planning a deep dive to look at it
[11:29 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well not sure.. long since i looked to the code
[11:29 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ahh it is not touchs.. it is collisions
[11:30 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal correct :)
[11:30 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: touchs should work fine.. don't use physics
[11:30 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal llDetectedLinkNumberI() from collisions on physics enabled linksetrs.. with Bullet
[11:30 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( viwers do the heavy work on prim detection )
[11:30 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: now bullet may not heave anym memory of what prim is collinding
[11:31 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ..may now have..
[11:31 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal there are other weird things going o with that bug besides the lsl reporting
[11:32 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal the bounding box of the linkset changes when it shouldn;t, child prims randomly seem to act like physics type NONE
[11:32 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I made a test car that demo's the issue, if anyone wants a copy
[11:32 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well it is bullet :p
[11:32 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: never change links with physics set !!!
[11:32 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal thats why it's great to have 2 entirely different physuics engines
[11:32 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: on bullet..
[11:33 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal the links aren;t being changed with physiucs enabled in this case
[11:33 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal nothing is being linked or unlinked, problem happens in collision
[11:34 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal just a collision, and things go bnkers
[11:34 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Hm I wonder if this is just another typo from a bad copy paste somewhere not calculating the bounding box correctly on some rotations?
[11:35 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal the bounding box is correct until a collision happens,, then it changes!
[11:35 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well those are details deep inside bullet managed code..
[11:35 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal possibly not the bounding bix
[11:35 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: fun thing for MB or who decides to dig into that :)
[11:35 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: guess 2deep for this meeting :)
[11:36 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I wouldn;t have cared except it blocks my Demolition Derby game which is very fun
[11:36 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal so yeah he's looking into that
[11:36 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal it works on ubODE
[11:36 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: good :)
[11:36 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester There was one typo years ago like that which apparently never really broke anything, but given that maybe just a bad copy paste forgetting to edit something afterwards and it now calculates incorrectly, perhaps a good idea to go over the code with that in mind
[11:36 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeah ubOde does collisions per prim
[11:36 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I brought copies of the demo derby cars if we have time and want to smash up cars
[11:36 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so does remember where they belong..
[11:37 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well most time ;)
[11:39 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Part of the fun of physics are the glitches
[11:39 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:39 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Unlink -> Enable Physics :)
[11:40 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: it does not
[11:40 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm does it? lol
[11:40 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I mean for fun
[11:41 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester You know you are having fun when the console tells you it removed a prim that fell into the void
[11:44 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal some friends do this thing where they link 100 prims, use a script to make it look like it's burning fire, then unlink prims once a second. A script in the unlinked prims turns it physical and it falls to the ground.
[11:44 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: hehe
[11:45 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal you can watch the sim heatbeat go from 45 down to about 1.. then back to 45 when its all over
[11:45 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal thats glitchy fun
[11:46 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal then they come to me and say "make it work better"
[11:46 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I made more tests last week regarding the maptile rendering: 2023/07/21 08:44:37 - [MAP IMAGE WORKER]: Finished generating zoom levels of 9721 tiles in 356.631516 seconds!
[11:46 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester So far no complaints about missing tiles
[11:46 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Pdeal to the metal
[11:46 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham *Pedal
[11:48 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I think the only other way to speed that up is to spawn multiple workers for each zoom level or do them from small to large and use the generated tiles instead of the individual ones, but on that I am not sure if that may not reduce quality
[11:49 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Then again 6 minutes to generate what amounts to 700 square kilometers of regions seems fine to me for now
[11:50 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, is that a modification to the existing maptile code or an external program being used to generate the tiles?
[11:51 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Currently when a region registers it fires off a wait for a minute and then attempts to add the new map tiles to the existing zoom levels, it does this with relatively heavy functions so it may still be running when a new region comes online
[11:51 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester This often creates missing tiles of var regions as the requests overlap
[11:52 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I changed this to instead just dump the individual tiles and on a timer check for new tiles and then render those in a separate thread directly in memory
[11:53 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Trying to make sure with checking file creation times to not cause overlaps and only render what it found at the point the timer last ran
[11:53 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester This still creates some blotched regions, but another run usually fixes those right up
[11:53 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( that is on grid side map )
[11:54 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: boss calling
[11:54 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Yes, generating the zoom levels for the different scales of the map
[11:54 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Jagga. See you next week.
[11:55 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I did a complete restart of all regions which is what triggered rebuilding the entire set of zoom levels, was surprised it was this quick and that's just under mono, dotnet might be faster still
[11:55 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Sounds like a nice improvement.
[11:56 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: The hour is almost up. Any other topics for today?
[11:56 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: I disable generating maps on region starup, then regions come up MUCH FASTER. Use a cron job to generate maps at midnight.
[11:57 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo smiles
[11:57 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester We technically don't need to do that anyways as you notice, decoupling the maptile from registration, because generating a new tile effectively is a new registration to the grid anyways
[11:57 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester You can even switch the renderer at runtime not sure why it was afixed in config heh
[11:58 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Realistically registration should be done with perhaps a blank tile first, then fire off maptile generation after startup is complete, let it run in a non-blocking thread and just re-register once done
[11:59 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester There was some reason to do this at startup, but I don't recall what it was and I haven't run into any issues doing it later either
[11:59 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: just a comment..
[11:59 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm never mind.. it is only about our git for devs :)
[12:00 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:00 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester We can even send empty water tile right before shutdown deregister and clean up after ourselves
[12:00 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: our machine is on obsolete software.. so some ssh may just ail now
[12:00 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: because wants protocols now removed from clients
[12:01 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Should be a copy on github that can be used
[12:01 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Just pull from there Andrew
[12:01 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: we do have githung and bitbucket
[12:01 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: githug
[12:01 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: err lol
[12:01 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester xD
[12:01 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: github even :)
[12:02 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester githug of death more each time I try to look at FS source after they merged LL code, nearly crashes git extensions
[12:02 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:05 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo grins
[12:05 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: he is very fond of git
[12:05 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Git out of here... :)
[12:06 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I can update the URL used by the repo after the meeting. It was just an unexpected issue. I recently updated to a newer version of the Linux Mint distro. Might be the first time I tried to pull from the machine.
[12:06 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal go on... git
[12:06 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I use git mostly because I have to, not because I likeit.
[12:06 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester There were some changes to ssh in recent ubuntu flavors as they threw all the rsa stuff out
[12:07 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester No more bad keys
[12:07 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well same.. that hug was jsut a typo :P
[12:07 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: We are now just past the hour. Unless there is a last minute question I'll wrap up todays meeting.
[12:07 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Only secure stuff now until quantum computers break that too
[12:07 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Many thanks!
[12:07 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ohh yeap i need go rl also
[12:07 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Buy all!
[12:07 PM PT]  Motoko.Karu cya everyone
[12:07 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Peace folks
[12:07 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: bye Kayaker and Ubit
[12:07 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: we are no on sale !!
[12:07 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: All righty then. That will do it for another week. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
[12:08 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Peace, Orbert
[12:08 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Thank you, Andrew
[12:08 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: cya later
[12:08 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Kayaker and anyone else who is heading out.
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