Chat log from the meeting on 2023-05-16

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[11:01 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird Hi
[11:01 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:01 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird problem is more concentration right now than burnout
[11:01 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Unfortunately that is typical management attitude when dealing with any sort of creative people - my last one almost killed me
[11:01 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Hello *smiles8
[11:01 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Hello, Lyr
[11:01 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Great to see you
[11:02 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Andrew you don't happen to have the ability to kick the webserver vm, wiki is dead
[11:04 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:04 AM PT]  Jamie.Jordan Hi everybody
[11:04 AM PT]  Luisillo Contepomi: hi
[11:04 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Heya Ubit
[11:04 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I was just looking at the server. The database engine isn't starting. I'm about to check the log files.
[11:04 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm i did hire a AI bartender?
[11:04 AM PT]  Luisillo Contepomi: :-)
[11:05 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo chuckles
[11:05 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: did andrew?
[11:05 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:05 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Not me
[11:06 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: brb
[11:06 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... the file system is set to read only.
[11:07 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester So is the disk full?
[11:07 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:08 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: abtout disk full
[11:08 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Did you install FS beta? :P
[11:08 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: That was my first thought. Disk space seems ok.
[11:08 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: beq did apply my sugestion for a fix to the minmap textures, and it is on 6.6.12
[11:09 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: sadly she made a typo...  but it is better.. instead of silent fiilling the disk, it just crashs as soon you arrive to a non power of 2 region :)
[11:10 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird is there a non power of 2 region to test in?
[11:10 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I added the code too
[11:10 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: If it saved that region as their last location and the user has the viewer set to login to last location they will be in a crash loop.
[11:10 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: event plaza
[11:10 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird all right
[11:11 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird so if I go there I sahll crash or not?
[11:11 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: if all goes well, if you select region textures on minimap ( other option is map textures) you should see them
[11:11 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks suspects the machine ran out of memory and that caused some issues.
[11:12 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm?
[11:12 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm should i restart it now?
[11:13 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird no crash
[11:13 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeap my patch ( even the one the made) does work
[11:13 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird right. I did not take the FS version
[11:14 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: she just lefet a "1 [11:14 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeha she did replace the 1[11:14 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: heavier.. but welll ppl do not like binary ops for somereason
[11:16 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: about last week code changes.. think none :(
[11:16 AM PT]  Sim Stats : Region running: OpenSim Nessie Dev 4462b65 (X64/Unix/DotNet)
[11:16 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester cosmetics
[11:16 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester New math for sun position and rotation
[11:16 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i did more httpwebrequest to httpclient change..  but di dnot commit
[11:16 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: oh ok cosmetics ..  dont deserve much talk here :)
[11:17 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I plan to one day actually understand how that sun and moon math works, but that amount of trig breaks my brain
[11:17 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: What's wrong with trig? ;)
[11:17 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hi, Kayaker.
[11:17 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well the one you see think is compatiblity conversions
[11:18 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird Hi Kayaker
[11:18 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Heya *grins*
[11:18 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: High all!
[11:18 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: bc windlight and eep references
[11:18 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well or something like that
[11:18 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: they do work .. i hope :)
[11:18 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, what are the issues with the sun and moon calculations?
[11:19 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: oh mb you mean just the interpolations..
[11:19 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well something..
[11:20 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird HGB metioned dotnet6 in the latest article on opensim
[11:20 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: im abotu to resart our box.. on andrew?
[11:20 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: was not vincent.Sylvester   talkiing abotu it on that HGB ?
[11:20 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ok andrew?
[11:21 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird he was and so did I :-O
[11:21 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I did send out a call for help with testing that's really all :)
[11:21 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, ok. I already issued a reboot so that may just be restarting the Linux within the vm. If you can restart the vm you can do that after we see how this reboot goes.
[11:22 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird and Ispoke about the grid being converted
[11:22 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel i shoud then wait for yours to end
[11:23 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Said in there you didn't get ubode to work? That confused me
[11:23 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I didn't but I only tried once
[11:23 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird besides there are way too many meshes that must be fixed for me to run it gridwide
[11:23 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: did not work where?
[11:24 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird on my grid
[11:24 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I thought we had dylib version of ubode
[11:24 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel it is working fine
[11:24 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I am sure it is
[11:24 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: some even made by gavin..
[11:24 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:24 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I did not put any effort into getting it working (see above)
[11:24 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: last by cuga ?
[11:25 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird yeah, nost made by Gavin
[11:25 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal what?
[11:25 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird maybe I misunderstood that...
[11:25 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Ugh yeah fixing mesh, that has been a thorn in my side too. It seems every version of FS now has different setup for mesh upload so the old tricks don't work anymore and now gotta actually create the physics as part of the visual meshes, which is a huge pain for the average use
[11:25 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal ubode works fine on arm64
[11:26 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I built a universal binary
[11:26 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird to clarify; I did not put any effort to make ubode work on my grid because too many meshes don't have proper physics models that work on ubode
[11:26 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Vincent is that missing?
[11:26 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird so for now running Bullet where they work fine
[11:27 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I buikt the most recent macOS dylibs, they include ubode, bullet and jpeg2
[11:27 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal tested all
[11:27 AM PT]  Tess JL: For static objects a well made physics model works just as well with either fo the three physics engines really
[11:28 AM PT]  Tess JL: THe only problem with ubode is those msileading phsyics weights it sends to the viewer but those can simply be ignored
[11:28 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal it would be nice to document that in the wiki
[11:28 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal a physics page or something
[11:28 AM PT]  Tess JL: Yes. Who are the editors of the wiki?
[11:28 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal plus we donlt have a standard set of tests, though arguably maybe we should
[11:29 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Problem I have found, before you could build a visual mesh and a physics mesh and line them up by global model coordinates so that you can drape the physics over the visuals with just two parts. The actual standard demands every object or prim have a physics model assigned to it, so fixing older mesh by just making some dumb physics box now requires a lot more work
[11:29 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I think it's whoever is willing to put in the work of writing it
[11:29 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester You can download the model as collada and fix it up in blender, but the upload then requires you maintain the same prim setup if you ever want to apply the textures again, since you can only download those if you have them in inventory, which most don't
[11:30 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester If you have updates to the wiki that need doing you can ask Andrew to whitelist your wiki account otherwise just yell at me over IRC heh
[11:31 AM PT]  Tess JL: ok. Thank you
[11:31 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal yeah you need the creator to re-upload the old mesh. Thats a widespread problem now.
[11:32 AM PT]  Tess JL: I'm not sure what the problem you describe is though. AFAIK meshes here have always rewuired separate physics models for each mesh
[11:32 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: standard does force a physics mesh???
[11:32 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: does not..
[11:33 AM PT]  Tess JL: Well, you *can* upload a mesh without a physics model of course but that's not goor content creation practice
[11:33 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester If you create an object that will be split into multiple prims then each of these needs to have physics assigned to them, where previously you could use one single prim mesh for just the physics
[11:33 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester If you try that now it places the physics mesh into the first prim mesh
[11:33 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I think FS uploader tries to prevent that now
[11:33 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but viewers will always upload a simple convex shape or hull
[11:33 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal the uploader is more robust than it used to be
[11:33 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: that is used is CONVEX physics type is select
[11:34 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Tess, a lot of people don't know how to properly create and prepare mesh for upload, or how to upload them properly.
[11:34 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird There is a whole lot of new code added to the physics generation logic with the meshoptimizer in the viewer
[11:34 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal older viewer's didn't enforce a proper physics model on upload
[11:34 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I think a mesh that is split still will have OK physics mesh
[11:34 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I took a mesh with physics that worked perfectly in SL and if was bad in OpenSim
[11:35 AM PT]  Tess JL: Good point, Andrew. There isn't much documentation for content creators out there
[11:35 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Same version of Firestorm
[11:35 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird that is most likely a consequence of Havok and not the viewer
[11:35 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham No argument there, but as Tess just said, there is zero reference docs
[11:35 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester My plan was to create a tutorial for users to fix their mesh given so long as you can upload the visual model exactly the same you can re-apply the texture through their UUIDs. Fixing the physics then you could accomplish by placing prims where you want collision and exporting those as collada then adding that as physics mesh. Unfortunately you cannot set just a visual and physics mesh as separate objects anymore
[11:36 AM PT]  Tess JL: I did write a "mesh physics 101" once. Posted it on the Kitely forum:
[11:36 AM PT]  Tess JL: That should explain everything anybody need to know about physics for *static* meshes
[11:36 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester The option for use from file for physics will just place the mesh into the first object of the visual mesh instead of going by the global position, as it did before
[11:36 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I did not understand the last sentence Vincent?
[11:37 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: For any object that doesn't need any physics, make a dae file with only a single mesh triangle. Save it and reuse it every time you make a phantom mesh.
This includes all wearable items btw.
[11:37 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: NO
[11:37 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: no single triagle!!
[11:37 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird that is true Vincent if you use a mesh dae
[11:37 AM PT]  Tess JL: Is there a reason for that, Ubit?
[11:38 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well in some cases ubode may blow up lol
[11:38 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but it is useless
[11:38 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird if you use the meshoptimizer to generate the physics it is more well behaved
[11:38 AM PT]  Tess JL: I'll change ti then
[11:38 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: just do not touch physics tab
[11:38 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Tess, the wiki was updated with more up to date info about uploading mesh. We can't make people read it. They may do what works for them in SL or go by what other people tell them.
[11:38 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: if object will be phantom or type NONE just don't even open physics tab
[11:39 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: the viewer will only upload the convex HULL ( at most 256 verts ) hat he always does
[11:39 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Andrew do you have a URL handy for that?
[11:39 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: in word at sl or ubode that prim will be phanton or CONVEX only
[11:40 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I am also curious about this meshoptimier...
[11:40 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: using cube, in fact fs does have that option now..
[11:40 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, not at the moment. The server is being worked on at the moment so I can't check the URL.
[11:41 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird it is standard in recent viewers, including mine
[11:41 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal ok np
[11:41 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but it is better to add a extra cube prim inworld
[11:41 AM PT]  Tess JL: Article updated
[11:41 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: at least at opensim, where number or prims matters less
[11:41 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: to read more about it
[11:41 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird mine has the cube too, although using Bounding box as the option
[11:41 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: bah. My cat is lying in front of the monitor making it hard to see parts of my screen.
[11:42 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird menu item text I mean
[11:42 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo grins at Andrew
[11:42 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham IT's a cat, that is what they do
[11:42 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Say I upload a table. It might split the legs off into 4 prims and the table top as main prim. If I now want to have a simple physics mesh to cover the whole thing then what you used to be able to do is go into physics, select from file and place some simple box in there to cover the whole object similar to a convex hull. Now what will happen it just places the physics mesh into the table top prim rather than placing it based on global coordinates. This is meant to be more in line with how you normally do meshes with physics when they are multiple objects. You are meant to assign a physics mesh for each object in your model. So that when you unlink your table you end up with parts still having physics. This makes fixing broken mesh a whole lot more complicated for the enduser.
[11:42 AM PT]  Motoko.Karu ^^
[11:42 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ofc like other post there.. physcis is also use on rays and on sits
[11:43 AM PT]  Tess JL: wiki seems to be down
[11:43 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird combine the meshes into one before upload in your table case
[11:44 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester If the mesh you downloaded is too complex it will split it and in case of fixing mesh you want to keep the object order intact else you can't apply the textures
[11:44 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester When you download without textures then it's all one texture, joining the mesh then messes with that ordering and so you can't apply the textures inworld anymore as that has changed
[11:45 AM PT]  Tess JL: If it's so complex it needs to be split, it's probably too complex for real time rendering anyway
[11:46 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Mesh getting turned into multiple objects is based on facecount, if you apply 100 different textures to an object without a UV map it will upload as separate objects
[11:46 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Depends - if it rendered ok before you took it to blender, it shouldn't need to split it up on the return trip
[11:46 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird Actually I think you can upload a dae with 5 physical meses in that table case and apply to the mesh dae. It does of course give you a more complex physical model
[11:46 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: why do you forget you cna just had prims later in world to do simple physics?
[11:47 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I did consider changing the tutorial to basically say hey you gotta upload each prim on its own, but for a house with 20 objects takes forever
[11:47 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Orbert, if it rendered in what before you take it to Blender?
[11:47 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird because if you have many such it impacts rendering performance
[11:47 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird the renderer has to do passes to exclude transparent objects
[11:47 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: like this car
[11:47 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester You can set to phantom and place prims for most things, but of course that increases prim load too
[11:47 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: nice big mesh
[11:47 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: all type NONE
[11:48 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal the root prim can't be NONE so a regular prim is added?
[11:48 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Another reason that mesh get split into multiple prims on upload is when they have more than 8 materials
[11:48 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: in this case only ONE extra prim now visible
[11:49 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal if you wanted to walk on the car, you could set it to convex hull
[11:49 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: that is also the root prim so vehcle script is simpler..
[11:49 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: only the root prm has physcs
[11:49 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: all rest is set to type NONE
[11:49 AM PT]  Tess JL: 100 different textures = 100 draw calls
[11:49 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: this is hwo you make cars for sl
[11:49 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( im talking abotu physcs)
[11:50 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal well you can set them all to type NONE just before driving it, to optimize physics, but have the script restore it to convex hull if you wanted people to walk on top while its parked
[11:51 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird Did you model that car Ubit?
[11:51 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: no
[11:51 AM PT]  Luisillo Contepomi: (uffff I thought it was a Tesla coming to steal my job.)
[11:51 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: jsut messed the script a bit and that physcis prim
[11:51 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird ok
[11:52 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal setting mesh to type None has its uses but there are times when you want convex hull
[11:53 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ok not that.. i have a tank where i did add a few more prims to give better collisions walking on it
[11:53 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: all mesh type NONE
[11:53 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Primary problem have been buildings, which can be hard to fix and the whole point was to teach users how they should be uploading things in the first place as well. Course having to give them half a blender course to just add a physics box is more than most are willing to endure
[11:53 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I do a lot of work with cars in metaverse and maintain some vehicle scripts
[11:54 AM PT]  Tess JL: I have to go now. It's our constitution day tomorrow and I got lots to prepare and better not stay up too late
[11:54 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: bye Tess
[11:54 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: great to see you
[11:54 AM PT]  Tess JL: Have a god day/evening/night everybody
[11:54 AM PT]  Motoko.Karu bye tess
[11:54 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester In the end I can see why this was changed, because it's how you are meant to do things, it's proper according to standard, just sometimes a bit of a pain, but physics and mesh changes have a history of that
[11:54 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm?
[11:54 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: there where no big changes
[11:55 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: constitution day? Hm... wonder what part of the world does that.
[11:55 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ignoring some things told for bullet only
[11:55 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal the FS mesh uploader has a cube option now for physics shape
[11:55 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal so you dont have to prepare your own
[11:56 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeap
[11:56 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal but you do have to know how to use the uploader
[11:56 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal *that* could use a good tutprial
[11:57 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal for os
[11:57 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham
[11:57 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: mesh are as for sl
[11:57 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: mostly
[11:57 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Norway, Andrew
[11:57 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Doesn't help much that when I inquired about the change I was told there is a bug in there as a code merge didn't go as planned so at least in the version I have the uploader is pretty much broken
[11:57 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird Are you too in Norway Orbert?
[11:58 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal the FS uploader has some differences
[11:58 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal between sl 
[11:58 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham No, jsut a quick web search
[11:58 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Orbert, ty.
[11:58 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham NP
[11:58 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird all right
[11:58 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Guess that tutorial has to wait a couple more months before I can continue on that
[11:59 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird actually national day is a misnomer, because it is the constitution of 1814 that is celebrated
[11:59 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird so it is the constitutional day
[12:01 PM PT]  Luisillo Contepomi: Thank you all so much for your great work. Time to recharge batteries.
[12:01 PM PT]  Luisillo Contepomi: bye
[12:01 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird bye
[12:01 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: New question: There is a INI setting to not count NPCs in the region, so is there any way
[12:02 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: to change how they appear in the viewer?
[12:02 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: I've seen "founders" appear as blue dots in the viewer.
[12:02 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: how they appear is viewer side thing
[12:02 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: we have no control on that
[12:02 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and viewers have no idea abotu npcs
[12:02 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird you could only render frens in the viewer
[12:02 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: What makes 'gods' turn blue? A certain privilage level?
[12:03 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, change how they appear in what way?
[12:03 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester God names does that, ini setting on the grid side iirc
[12:03 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Be nice if NPCs did not appear in the mini map as green dots.
[12:04 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal god mode makes you turn blue in OS?.. cool
[12:04 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal neato
[12:04 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester They are technically people to the region, just lacking some parts, so viewers will show them
[12:04 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: I've seen the founders of a grid show up blue, I don't know how to make that happen.
[12:05 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird does the grid even know about founders?
[12:05 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: what are founders?
[12:05 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: lol
[12:05 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I'm going to play with god name settings this afternoon
[12:05 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo grins
[12:05 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird must be the grid creator/owner, but does the grid even know that?
[12:06 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: The people who founded the grid showed up as blue dots, so it was some admin or god setting... anybody know how they did that?
[12:06 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Vincent said its an ini setting
[12:07 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal so if your avatar name matches a god name in the ini
[12:07 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird what ini?
[12:07 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... As it seems someone else has already mention there is (IIRC) a setting about whether to show NPCs as avatars.
[12:07 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird gridcommon.ini?
[12:07 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal [12:03:35] Vincent.Sylvester God names does that, ini setting on the grid side iirc
[12:08 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird only place I recall god names are in opesnim.ini, but that is per simulator
[12:08 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ok gods are not founders..
[12:08 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird opensim.ini
[12:08 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester ;[GodNames]
;    Enabled = false
;    FullNames = "Test User, Foo Bar"
;    Surnames = "Kryztlsk"
[12:09 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: the only option we may have is not sent send npc dots at all
[12:09 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Sots a simulator-level setting then
[12:09 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal So it's*
[12:09 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird yes
[12:09 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird I checked and it is in opensim.ini
[12:10 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal If the estate owners wanted to give some pop on the mini map they could do that
[12:11 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: FYI, There is AllowSenseAsAvatar in the [NPC] section. I just don't recall off hand if that only affects the use of llSensor or if it also affects dots on the map.
[12:11 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Was about to say yeah that exists
[12:11 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester They are counted as agents, because they are agents in the end, just cold dead shells of agents
[12:11 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:12 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird It would be possible to read the UserLevel field in UserAccounts to get gridwide god names
[12:13 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester There is a GodNames module too outside the one built-in that gets that data from gridside, it also automatically forces those users into god mode at all times, which is annoying since it disables you from sensors
[12:13 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird we don't want that
[12:13 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester NPCs need a lot of handling code to get them to survive restarts, so you might not want to restart a region unless the user on there has dealt with their NPCs first
[12:13 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: no iti does not force
[12:13 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: that was the old way
[12:14 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal If you are shown as blue due to God Name ini setting do you also have god powers? I would prefer to be blue without god powers
[12:14 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: there are options to disable that..  and only get god mode, asking via viewer
[12:14 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal is that possible
[12:14 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: only a few powers stay always on.. like hmm kick ??
[12:14 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird I only ask via the viewer
[12:14 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird there is no reaosn why any user should hop aroudn with god level on always
[12:15 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well opensim used to be like that
[12:15 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal yeah too dangerous
[12:15 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: always god
[12:15 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird it is also not good from a copyright standpoint
[12:15 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Teleports to some extend are still userlevel dependent, but it won't let you bypass userflags
[12:15 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird those users can copy anything and everything
[12:16 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Estate and parcel access permissions are a mess
[12:16 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal do the god powers come automatically when blue?
[12:16 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal or are thos separate
[12:16 PM PT]  Jagga Meredith: I maintain a grid.  would be clumsy to have to turn god on and off
[12:16 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Cuga, that's what an external Godnames module does. The built-in one just colors things
[12:17 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal great thats what I was hoping
[12:17 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird what do you have to do on a daily basis that estate manager cannot fix?
[12:17 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Someone threw that module my way years ago, grabbed the names from robust table and forced godmode for those users, because apparently they didn't know how to use userlevels
[12:18 PM PT]  Selby.Evans bye all
[12:18 PM PT]  Motoko.Karu cya selby
[12:18 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Gavin, currently there is a bit of bug in the way permissions are checked. Even as grid god userlevel 250 you can't get into a region that has "Must be 18 " set unless you have the appropriate userflag on your account as well. An estate owner that sets this effectively locks themselves out of the region
[12:19 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester This is because the order of checking is messed up and does parcel tests first rather than estate owner manager checks
[12:19 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I do have a patch to fix that up at least a little bit, but the whole setup is a bit of mess despite that still
[12:19 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: The machine is back up and running.
[12:19 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester yay :D
[12:20 PM PT]  Jamie.Jordan Have a great week yall
[12:20 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Peace Jamie
[12:20 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird is it a big problem setting 18 yo on the user?
[12:20 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird on the estate manager user I mean
[12:20 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga,
[12:20 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Jamie. Thanks for dropping by
[12:20 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: *waves*
[12:21 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal thx Andrew
[12:21 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: yw
[12:21 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Not really, userflag 44 if you wanna make sure you can't lock yourself out, but ideally as estate owner at least you can still access your own region right xD
[12:21 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Legitimate use of that parcel setting for when you want to keep the kids off the lawn though since we do support it if you have something to do the age verification with
[12:22 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Though the payment on file or rather payment used flags also work and can be set for access to parcels
[12:22 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal the 18  checkbox os different setting than General/Moderate/Adult correct?
[12:22 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird payment passes can be set too, haha
[12:23 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Yes the content ratings aren't checked against anything, they are just what the estate owner set them to
[12:23 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Mostly self-observing things those ratings, 18  actually is an access flag that is checked, same with payment on file
[12:23 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: need go rl for 15min
[12:23 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: brb
[12:24 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird I think I will go for today.
[12:24 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird Will problaby not show next week as I have surgery the day after
[12:24 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, then it is time to wrap things up for today. I need to get back to some other things myself in RL.
[12:24 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I should probably go too
[12:24 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: np, Gavin. I hope all goes well with the surgery.
[12:24 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal thanks to the group, I learn something new every day
[12:25 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: On that note, thank you all for coming. See you most of you again next week. :)
[12:25 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Hope you recover quickly Gavin :)
[12:25 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird I am sure it will, thanks.
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