Chat log from the meeting on 2023-03-28

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[10:59 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:00 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Hey, boss man
[11:00 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wasn't it bosman ?
[11:01 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: No, IIRC, that is in Arizona and is near the site of Burning Man.
[11:01 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham My daugher is in Bozeman, does that count?
[11:01 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Arizona, or MT? I forget which. Somewhere out there in the desert.
[11:01 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Bossmang, Beltalowda *grins*
[11:01 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Bozeman is up in the mountains
[11:02 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham of Montana
[11:02 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ahh Bossmang ?
[11:02 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: yes
[11:02 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: the Expanse
[11:02 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:02 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo chuckles
[11:02 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird in the local dialect here boss means garbage, so a boss mann means a man picking up the garbage
[11:02 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: my memory.. lol
[11:02 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: ah, in the Expanse, it is a title of respect
[11:02 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Their Some days that is what the boss has to do
[11:03 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham *There are
[11:03 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: for people who live on the space
[11:03 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I need to go back and watch that
[11:03 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo grins
[11:03 AM PT]  Selby.Evans ki everyone
[11:03 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Some interesting characters at the start, but I never got further
[11:03 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird hi
[11:04 AM PT]  Motoko.Karu hihi
[11:04 AM PT]  Selby.Evans hi
[11:04 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby.
[11:05 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ohh only one commit last week
[11:05 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Hello Selby *smiles*
[11:06 AM PT]  Selby.Evans hi
[11:06 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well onb that commit i fixed a typo i did back in eep introduction
[11:07 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i did c
[11:07 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Oldest trick in the book heh
[11:07 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, you also addressed mantis 9068
[11:07 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo smiles and nods
[11:07 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so ice_level was not been read from serielized data..
[11:08 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well a rare setting i guess...
[11:08 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: fixed now
[11:08 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Kayaker, and Jamie
[11:08 AM PT]  Jamie.Jordan Hi everybody
[11:08 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Speaking of eep, surprised me to note that there doesn't seem to be a way to actually interface with the settings items. We can create them and set them up in the viewer, but not download or upload them unless you go over the asset server directly
[11:08 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Hi Jamie!
[11:09 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and oh that what are you fellings a bout a release in the next few days ?
[11:09 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird The reason is that in SL these are items that can be traded, so they are not meant to be copied around like that
[11:09 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: you can edit and save them vincent.Sylvester
[11:09 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm somewhere on the viewer :)
[11:09 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Sounds good, Ubit.
[11:10 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird April 1 release?
[11:10 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: on point is the version ...  some would consider
[11:10 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: weil i always avoid doing anything on that day :)
[11:10 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I managed to download it from the asset server, now I have to figure out how it works. I want to rebuild the environment where I live without messing around with sliders and just set the values. Guess I have to build an uploader then
[11:11 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Will (or whatever number)  exclude the dotnet6 branch?
[11:11 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird sounds good to me
[11:11 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i even don't care abotu waht ppl tell me on 1st april
[11:11 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and things like that..
[11:11 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: details
[11:11 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester There are actually like two three tickets I would like to get looked at before a release, because they are mostly minor things that add a bit of quality of life
[11:11 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I don't think anybody cares that day any longer
[11:11 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well the number of changes is not that large
[11:12 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird no, but it marks the change to dotnet6
[11:12 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so im inclined to release as sttill as Yeti
[11:12 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: will the release run on linux?  May need to (re)build a server and don't want overhead of windows
[11:12 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov:
[11:12 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird it runs on dotnet6 on debian 11
[11:12 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: release will be from master..  will run under mono 6.x,
[11:12 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: No
[11:13 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: ok
[11:13 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, which tickets?
[11:13 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: release will be from master..  so, .net 4.6 / mono 6.x
[11:13 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: excellent
[11:13 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: will even possible still run on older mono..  sure a back idea
[11:13 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird ah, ok
[11:14 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well think most of us don't use master now wll vincent does
[11:14 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Brian.Too
[11:14 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal So if we are using dotnet6 we should not use the next public release?
[11:14 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester 9052, 6379 and 5526
[11:15 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: dotnet6 is future release
[11:15 AM PT]  Brian.Too hi
[11:15 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal ok
[11:15 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird yeah, but you can still call it dev
[11:15 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so as i said, im inclined to release as Yetu
[11:15 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: moving devel to Nessie
[11:16 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: (Yeti not Yetu )
[11:16 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird release as and then increment to dev
[11:16 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yes and change name :P
[11:16 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird sure
[11:16 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks wonders how Ubit is coming up with those names.
[11:17 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: actually both where sugested to me
[11:17 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal will dev  be for dotnet6?
[11:17 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well dotnet6 is another issue
[11:18 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: when to make it the main/master
[11:18 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i can't keep doing 2 versions of codew
[11:18 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: did you need more to test dotnet6?
[11:19 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel we are talking abotu dev versions
[11:19 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I still think it should have tests before becoming master, while the current ones are not great, they have caught issues at least twice, so losing them and hoping for the best seems a bit backwards
[11:19 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: Nessie :)
[11:19 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: nahh
[11:19 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: good name
[11:19 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: at a point we just need to drop Mono code
[11:19 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: i like Nessie
[11:19 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: So do i.
[11:20 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: as i said i can't kept adding 2 versions of code
[11:20 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Will you announce in that it is the last Mono release?
[11:20 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: What will Ubit do for names when he runs out of cryptids?
[11:20 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: on dotnet6 we should use more c#10 sugar :)
[11:20 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird call anything before 0.9.3.x legacy
[11:21 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: Oh kayaker  Mythologiy is full of names
[11:21 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird OpenSim legacy
[11:21 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well code will stay on git etc etc ofc
[11:21 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: fear some with old hardware will need mono
[11:22 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but.. mono also needes recent hardware/os :(
[11:22 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird transitions are always a PITA
[11:22 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeah
[11:22 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham It the usual stuff happens, you might have to backport patches anyway, so probably a
[11:22 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: old hardware is why I'm running mono
[11:22 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well mono will be a branch
[11:22 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: nasd master will get and be dotnet
[11:23 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( will be a fun fun operation that one lol )
[11:23 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester dotnet happily runs on 10  year old hardware so long as the os is anything made in the last 5 years
[11:23 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: even linis did kill 32bit cpus etc
[11:23 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: linux
[11:24 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: pretty nice usable cpus gone bc of that
[11:24 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester With how much stuff you can put on a region these days you'd run out of usable memory anyhow
[11:25 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: no reason why this things can't run on a 2004 cpu
[11:25 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird if it does not run on PDP-11...
[11:25 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Showing our age, Gavin
[11:25 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: did you tried gavin?
[11:25 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:25 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I have never touched a PDP-11 in my life
[11:25 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird :-)
[11:25 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: get one and a cross compiler.. may work :)
[11:25 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: I have
[11:25 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester files mantis complaining it won't run on a 6502
[11:25 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: oops so did i lol
[11:25 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird there is a PiDP-11 kit one can purchase
[11:26 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: I've seen some on ebay
[11:26 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I used to a student operator of a PDP 11/34 that ran RSX-11/M
[11:26 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Oh Oh! I have all the parts to a PDP-11 in a box in my barn!
[11:26 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so about Nessy should that be dotnet6 only ?
[11:26 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: or it might have been an 11/70. Long time ago now.
[11:26 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so about Nessy should that be dotnet6 only ?
[11:27 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: err
[11:27 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: I've been meaning to mount the core memory as art on my wall.
[11:27 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so about Nessie should that be dotnet6 only ?
[11:27 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird VAX cluster with OpenSim
[11:27 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: I vote yes
[11:27 AM PT]  Brian.Too yes
[11:27 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal I think that is good if next release will be dotnet6
[11:27 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: assuming there's a path to dotnet6 for Ubuntu
[11:27 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yes
[11:27 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Are we going to try to get Postgres working with it?
[11:28 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: k
[11:28 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: see the ms site
[11:28 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird debian 11 and Ubuntu is pretty much identical in that respect
[11:28 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal dotnet6 runs fine on Ubuntu
[11:28 AM PT]  Brian.Too   release a for dotnet6
[11:28 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I am sure the site has Ubuntu install instruction
[11:28 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov:
[11:28 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I think we talked about this a couple months ago. To make one last mono release attempting to backport as much as is reasonable and fixing up what we can in terms of open bugs on mantis and then move on to dotnet. I have some backports I do already I can submit and there are a few mantis tickets I'd like to get at least looked at before a release happens.
[11:28 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Getting Postgres working may have to wait until after the release
[11:29 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I upgraded all to the 6.0.15 version
[11:29 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: note that there are the runtime.. to run only and sht sdk to compile
[11:29 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird yes Postgres is a longer wash
[11:29 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal On Ubuntu I had better luck using Synaptic Package Manager to install dotnet6
[11:29 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i did not liked dotnet7
[11:29 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: k
[11:30 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: made things compile and run..  but memory usae was higher for no good reason
[11:30 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird they probalby added a load of tlemetry code
[11:30 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird telemetry
[11:31 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird next will be ChatGPT
[11:31 AM PT]  Brian.Too Microsoft have a habit of rowing backwards . maybe dotnet8 more friendly
[11:31 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester chatgpt powered jit, god help us all
[11:31 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: we are on Version:      6.0.11 here for now
[11:31 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I saw there are lsl chatgpt connection scripts on the SL marketplace
[11:32 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Probably better conversation that a lot of the inhabitants
[11:32 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Hopefully not written by it itself, cause then they won't work
[11:32 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird lol
[11:32 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal lol
[11:32 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird maybe add RLV to chatgpt
[11:32 AM PT]  Motoko.Karu ^^
[11:33 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird would make it interesting
[11:33 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo laughs
[11:33 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:33 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: it is such a moving target
[11:33 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal chatGPT is writing working Javascript code now... wonder if it will write lsl
[11:33 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Write yes, working, no
[11:33 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: it does
[11:33 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: but it does not handle errors or do it elegantly
[11:33 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: it does write something yes
[11:33 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird why not test Cuga
[11:34 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal chatGPT and I are not friends
[11:34 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: it struggles with more complex funtions and with a series of tasks
[11:34 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: there was a conference at sl last week.. ppl talked about charblabla  dalli-e etc etc
[11:35 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: me either, we gave a workshop on it and related AI tools if you wish to see more, will share privately
[11:35 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: think someone called L something talked abotu it also there
[11:35 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ;)
[11:35 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird HGB was all over AI generated mesh a while back
[11:35 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: L__
[11:35 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: in fact ppl talked abotu it already at last oscc
[11:35 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I asked it to write me a function to figure out the orientation of the sun to that of a solar panel and it made multiple mistakes on return types, math and even basics such as which part of the vector is the actual sun position relevant for that calculation
[11:36 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester It read the LSL wiki, skipped the caveats and otherwise has no much of a concept of how things work internally so the scripts it writes are... questionable
[11:36 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird poor thing has probalby never seen the sun
[11:37 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird locked into a datacenter
[11:37 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal *phew* Vincent already tested
[11:37 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Im off the hook
[11:37 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:37 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Im sure one day it will catch up
[11:37 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester The thing it did help with was write the function I use for generating map tiles in memory rather than using get and set pixel functions. With minor adjustment that works quite well, but I reckon it stole most of that code from stackoverflow anyways
[11:38 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well if you think abt it, so do human devs
[11:38 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal You should be able to ask it "where did you find that code"
[11:38 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: human devs reuse code as much as possible..
[11:38 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal and also say "That's broken fix your errors"
[11:39 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I did tell it to fix its LSL errors, but the result wasn't much better
[11:39 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal interesting
[11:39 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Probably lack of overall data
[11:39 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird si it actually revised the code and did something?
[11:40 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well worse thing seems to be that is does makeup information, even "lies"
[11:40 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I told it to use the correct functions and return types and it adjusted that, but the resulting math was still wrong
[11:40 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester It probably just lacks data as LSL isn't that widespread, not much for it to parse to try and gain the patterns it needs to write somewhat working code
[11:40 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: but it's learning *shudders*
[11:40 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird The Big version turned abusive and argumentative so they had to turn it down
[11:41 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird Bing*
[11:41 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester It's still just mostly a full text search that can adjust things here and there based on learned patterns. I don't see a fundamental understanding of topics in it.
[11:41 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Trained by humans, what can you expect
[11:41 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal perhaps it knows it is making errors and secretly knows how to do it, so that the AI crowdsource becomes smarter than humans
[11:42 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal we'll never know
[11:42 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester What it was really good for was figuring out solutions to problems by suggesting things it has learned about. Like you can ask if there is software or libraries to help with things and how to implement them, that it does do well
[11:42 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird it should be possible to train an additional  module specifically on lsl
[11:42 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: Michael Smerconish's poll question yesterday was "will AI take over your job".  90%  said yes
[11:43 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I don't think a computer that on the most fundamental level can represent nuance as 1 or 0 has the ability to really think. You'd need a quantum computer or something to have enough entropy for real emotions or something
[11:43 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: only a few still believe humans will jsut find better jobs that the ones taken by AI
[11:43 AM PT]  Motoko.Karu might not happen immediately...give it time... [11:43 AM PT]  Motoko.Karu >
[11:43 AM PT]  Brian.Too AI not going to go away, best to live with it
[11:43 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well at a point, AI will go away..
[11:43 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hungry mob will just burn all the datacenters..
[11:44 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird it still can't do any job that requires interaction with the real world
[11:44 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird such as picking blueberries
[11:44 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: ok now you're just channeling Asimov
[11:44 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal everybody will become dishwashers and garbage men
[11:44 AM PT]  Motoko.Karu robotics have been advancing pretty quickly tehse days... I'm sure picking blueberries is being worked on...
[11:44 AM PT]  Brian.Too Railway could not do the job of horses, but het!
[11:44 AM PT]  Brian.Too hety
[11:44 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: I write parking tickets for a living.  unless the city allows drones, my job is safe.  Drones get caught in bushes
[11:45 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: a few did burn mobile towers in uk bc some told they where propagating covid..
[11:45 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I am pretty sure that if there was enough money in picking blueberries, there is a robot doing it
[11:45 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: robots pick raspberries
[11:45 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird there are most likely robots picking garden blueberries
[11:45 AM PT]  Motoko.Karu
[11:45 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham I know the vision part is up to it, but the mechanics are still expensive
[11:45 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so when many loose jobs to AI; ppl will just burn it.. and go back to stone age..
[11:45 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird but the wild ones is mcuh more of a challenge
[11:46 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: simple human evolution mechanics..
[11:46 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: will 9.2.2 run on dotnet6?
[11:46 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester It'll eventually force a rethink on what our society is based on, that perhaps the rat race isn't going to work anymore, but that's utopian thinking that I don't think we'll see given greed is a far too powerful incentive and drug to pass up
[11:46 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: not the release no
[11:46 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: k
[11:46 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird that or the sun will burn it. Carrington Even 2.0
[11:47 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird Carrington Event*
[11:47 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: mono it is
[11:47 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: branch dotnet6 is dev for dotnet 6
[11:47 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: are are on it here
[11:47 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester You can already run both, but dotnet is kinda untested still and sometimes the c# sugar added might have some negative effects
[11:47 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but the release, as i said, will bot for mono/netframework 4.x
[11:48 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: will be...
[11:48 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird it runs pretty good on my grid
[11:48 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird have not tested it under real load yet
[11:48 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well it is a dev version..
[11:48 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird maybe we should have a crash the grid party
[11:48 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: even our releases have issues :)
[11:48 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I did all the sugar we could do for the mono version, since that has code that is also older spec. It compiles, but broke HG for example
[11:48 AM PT]  Cuga.Rajal lets have a party!
[11:49 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well and they are formaly beta releases :)
[11:49 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester So not all visual studio suggests is going to work
[11:49 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird did it ever...
[11:49 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: I need to move Trondheim.  my daughter switched ISP's and everytyhing's gone to shit so I need to move it back here
[11:49 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: nothing did broke HG
[11:49 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: not more that is is always brokne
[11:49 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester You remember when I asked you to hop over for a test, that was that
[11:50 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird You can't just move Trondheim. My brother lives there!
[11:50 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: dotnet change means NO Xengine
[11:50 AM PT]  Brian.Too yeah!
[11:50 AM PT]  Jagga Meredith: I'm on Yengine
[11:50 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: that means that some "strange" scripts will not run
[11:50 AM PT]  Brian.Too yeah  
[11:50 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:51 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: XEngine is dead, long live YEngine!
[11:51 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well all out tests are dead.. they need to be updated to nunit3
[11:51 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester That's the thing I'm not sure if nunit or moving to dotnet tests
[11:51 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: They won't run at all?
[11:51 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: The conversation today has been very amusing, but RL is calling and I must leave! Thanks all!
[11:52 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird Cheers Kayaker
[11:52 AM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Peace, man
[11:52 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester It will compile nunit2, but no it cannot run them and currently they don't all compile as the build order is messed up
[11:52 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, tc Kayaker
[11:52 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester They can probably be updated to nunit3, then there is the question of how to run them or even test run them locally
[11:53 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Shared a sample of the code and the links
[11:53 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester There is a test adapter for that, but I'm not sure it works and the version available on linux is different too
[11:53 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: we can ran then localy
[11:53 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and tell github to run them also
[11:53 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Since it's basically all broken as is I wonder if might not be easier to directly rewrite for the dotnet-test thing
[11:53 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( but github does have a time limit on free acounts.. )
[11:54 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester It comes down to writing a single test to see how they work with visual studio and jenkins
[11:55 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester See what offers the least amount of pain
[11:55 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I spend $4 per month on github
[11:56 AM PT]  Lyr Lobo: For the log, I shared a ntoecard with the AI Workflows workshop links to a handout, video and a sample of the code for running ChatGPT in Opensimulator, but without error handling and the API in it
[11:56 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird that gives unlimited repos both private and public
[11:56 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeah
[11:56 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i only have a free one :)
[11:56 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird I am sure we can manage that between ourselves?
[11:56 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and that does limit the cpu time we can use per month
[11:56 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: on CI things
[11:56 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: you seen i told it to do compiles
[11:57 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird $4 gives 3,000 Actions minutes/month
[11:57 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird 180 core-hours of Codespaces compute
[11:57 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Does that roll over into the next month?
[11:57 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird no
[11:57 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Thought so -.-
[11:57 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov:
[11:58 AM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Should be easy to sponsor that it's just 50 bucks per year
[11:58 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: dunno
[11:59 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird There is something called github sponsors
[11:59 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well and the tests we did on jenkins are huge
[11:59 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: remember like 5 minutes each run..
[12:00 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester The dotnet-tests are supposedly faster compared to nunit
[12:00 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeah but we only have nunit ones made
[12:00 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I been reading a bit on the two setups and they are not that much different really, but still require someone to actually sit down through all the documentation
[12:00 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: to redo all that..  yeack...
[12:00 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: The openai site wants you to create an account before it will let you try it out. It asks for a phone number as part of the registration process. I haven't tried going any further in the registration process.
[12:01 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Don't blame you
[12:01 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester If someone can write a test or two in dotnet-test I can probably sit down and figure out a couple more, just need a starting point that I can verify stuff working against
[12:01 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird Ubit, if you set up the github account for sponsorship, we can add the dollars needed for the opensim project
[12:01 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Jenkins can run both just fine
[12:01 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I've been implementing unit testing in a project of mine. I also 1/3 the way through a book on writing tests for embedded systems.
[12:02 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: I do not think that we ask for phone numbers, but will check on our davinci portal
[12:02 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Andrew, if you can figure out a dotnet-test or nunit3 one I can give that a test with jenkins and visual studio and probably work the rest from there
[12:02 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I just need a starting point
[12:02 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Is it ok to put a link in our chat log?
[12:02 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yes
[12:03 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: ok *smiles*
[12:03 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: Red Queen Davinci
[12:03 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: now, if the free trial runs out too fast, let me know
[12:03 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: My research team is hosting this
[12:03 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: since ppl asked and talked about openAI and things :)
[12:03 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: and we're experimenting...we have 39 templates set up to get people productive faster and use it in our Opensimulator builds
[12:03 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: sure, but links and rl *grins*
[12:03 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: I always check
[12:03 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: It would make sense to use dotnet-test on the dotnet6 branch. Would it work in master? No point in writing tests in nunit3 then having to redo them in dotnet-test later if we would prefer to go that route..
[12:04 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: i can ask my team if they will upgrade a site with dotnet6 to test it
[12:04 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: also
[12:04 PM PT]  Lyr Lobo: will make a note of it and check back on it
[12:04 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: Andrew i told nunit3 as possible easier path to reuse what we already have
[12:04 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: just that
[12:04 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I think so too. Plus nunit3 itself is not supported anymore either, that entire project is also kinda dying along with mono, so moving to dotnet-test might offer better long term support
[12:05 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham There is no such thing with Micro$haft
[12:05 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: others, will mean do all of that from 0
[12:06 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester Well they do share some similar code or things that wouldn't be too hard to translate, test setup is different though
[12:06 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well no matter what.. all things do have a limited lifetime
[12:07 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester If I have a working example I can probably make a few more tests work, with enough time even my two left hands will write working code
[12:07 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well and time to code is need to do actual working code :)
[12:08 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester I just worry that nunit3 being kinda dead in the water and with limit support in visual studio is going to be work to get functioning only for it to die anyways
[12:09 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm there is also xunit or something
[12:09 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester And some of the tests are so old and poorly written moving away from that whole thing might make those work a bit better
[12:09 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel many of them are just bad ues
[12:09 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yes
[12:10 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( some i just killed long ago )
[12:10 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but now and then, one did spot a real code mistake..
[12:10 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'm currently using the test framework from glib for my unit tests that test C based code. I'll have a look at nunit3.
[12:11 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: as i said, only did menting nu3 as natural update path
[12:12 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester The latest version no longer has a test adapter for visual studio and hasn't seen much updating moving along with dotnet so not sure how well it works
[12:12 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Sure. I got that. I can look at the dotnet-test as well. First step is to just see what the tests look like in those test frameworks.
[12:12 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I don't use visual studio.
[12:12 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester dotnet-test seems like a natural option since we are moving things anyways and might as well then redo some of the ancient tests in proper ways
[12:13 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird if they need to be redone, better do it in something that will last a while
[12:13 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeah ofc
[12:13 PM PT]  Selby.Evans bye all
[12:14 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: cya
[12:14 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird later
[12:14 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Selby. See you again next week.
[12:14 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Peace
[12:14 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal tc Selby
[12:14 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester That's my thinking too, dotnet-test will move along with dotnet and the tests are often so bad just moving them to nunit3 isn't going to fix them anyways, so might as well bite the bullet and write new ones just using the existing ones as inspiration
[12:15 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: As Ubit mentioned it is a pain maintaining two branches of code. We have gone one this long with broken or no tests in the code. We could just work on adding dotnet-test stuff to the dotnet6 branch.
[12:15 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal Seems that rewriting once will be easier than rewriting twice
[12:18 PM PT]  Jagga Meredith: yes
[12:19 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: We are almost half past the hour. Any other last minute items for today?
[12:21 PM PT]  Brian.Too Thanks for all contributions to OpenSim, much appreciated. Bye for now
[12:22 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Brian. Nice to see you.
[12:23 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see anyone else typing so I will call this meeting to a close.
[12:23 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
[12:23 PM PT]  Orbert.Tatham Thanks, Andrew
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