Chat log from the meeting on 2022-07-26

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[11:01] Jamie.Jordan Hi everybody
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:02] Kayaker Magic: I'm not all that happy with Ubuntu: The sound drivers are terrible, plug-and-pray keeps changing my choices of sound device choices, setting up icons on the screen is a pain.
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Sound drivers have been a problem ever since Pulse Audio came along.
[11:02] Ubit Umarov: no idea i have no machine to really try a linux
[11:03] Ubit Umarov: some 2 yrs ago i had debian 10 on a machine, and was working fine
[11:03] Ubit Umarov: then the machine died
[11:03] Ubit Umarov: bahh
[11:03] Kayaker Magic: Oh and on Ubuntu there is some UI thing called Snap that half the programs use, it creates a new logical device for every application, filling up my real device list.
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I dropped Ubuntu when they added Unity for their desktop.
[11:05] Vincent.Sylvester Not many changes to OpenSim lately. Minor stuff in libomv as we are fishing for whatever might be wrong with the whole TryParse crashing deal. Of course testing on latest mono none of the previously crashing regions have done so yet so I am back to square one on that. Will probably just go back to latest and see what happens, must be something other than just scripts causing that, perhaps people.
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Unity? Hm... that might not be the right name.
[11:05] Kayaker Magic: I have an OpenSim question: I got a request to run OpenSim 0.8.2 on one region. Got it from the archives, it crashes and won't run. Probably some mono issue. Anyone have a suggestion what I can try?
[11:05] Vincent.Sylvester What does it crash on?
[11:06] Kayaker Magic: Hold on, looking that up
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: If you are using 0.8.2 on one region what version of OS are the other regions running?
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: I'm running a fairly recent master Yeti on the rest, all connected up to OSGrid.
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: Here's the error:
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: 2022-07-23 06:18:59,121 ERROR (Heartbeat-(Esses_Workshop)) - OpenSim.Region.Framework.Scenes.Scene [SCENE]: Failed on region Esses Workshop with exception Object reference not set to an instance of an object  at OpenSim.Region.Framework.Scenes.SceneGraph.UpdatePreparePhysics () [0x00006] in <35ba7167b3194ad9abe7c1bc9afcecb6>:0
  at OpenSim.Region.Framework.Scenes.Scene.Update (System.Int32 frames) [0x00140] in <35ba7167b3194ad9abe7c1bc9afcecb6>:0
2022-07-23 06:18:59,124 ERROR (Heartbeat-(Esses_Workshop)) - OpenSim.Application [APPLICATION]: ^M
APPLICATION EXCEPTION DETECTED: System.UnhandledExceptionEventArgs^M
[11:09] Kayaker Magic: Running XEngine, ubODE
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't think that error message is very helpful.
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, Which version of mono are you using?
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: But that's what I think of all error messages from opensim! None of them are very helpful!
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: I'm running mono 6.12
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: well, some of them are more helpful than others.
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: How far does it get in the region startup process before that error pops up?
[11:11] Kayaker Magic: It looks like it is about to start, says "Started tracking thread Heartbeat
[11:12] Kayaker Magic: The region is brand new, no prims, no scripts, pimple island terrain.
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: what is 0.8.2?
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: ;)
[11:12] Vincent.Sylvester Is that all there is? Can you pastebin the remaining parts and maybe a few lines before that. Have you tried another combination of scripts and physics?
[11:13] Vincent.Sylvester The releases are tagged in git so you can also compile from source under newer mono to see if that helps
[11:13] Kayaker Magic: Here are a few lines (all lookiing good) before the crash:
[11:13] Kayaker Magic: 2022-07-23 06:18:58,795 DEBUG (1) - OpenSim.Data.MySQL.MySQLSimulationData [REGION DB]: Loaded 0 objects using 0 prims
2022-07-23 06:18:58,801 DEBUG (1) - OpenSim.Data.MySQL.MySQLSimulationData [REGION DB]: Loaded inventory from 0 objects
2022-07-23 06:18:58,802 INFO  (1) - OpenSim.Region.Framework.Scenes.Scene [SCENE]: Loaded 0 objects from the datastore
2022-07-23 06:18:58,803 DEBUG (1) - OpenSim.Region.CoreModules.Framework.UserManagement.UserManagementModule [USER MANAGEMENT MODULE]: Caching creators' data from Esses Workshop (0 objects)...
2022-07-23 06:18:58,806 INFO  (1) - OpenSim.Region.Framework.Scenes.Scene [SCENE]: Loading land objects from storage
2022-07-23 06:18:58,932 DEBUG (1) - OpenSim.Services.GridService.GridService [GRID SERVICE]: Region Esses Workshop (9b145e2a-5c81-4803-ab84-381904b61f69, 256x256) registered at 2294,9495 with flags RegionOnline
2022-07-23 06:18:59,114 INFO  (1) - OpenSim.Region.Framework.Scenes.Scene [SCENE]: Initializing script instances in Esses Workshop
[11:13] Kayaker Magic:  06:18:59,114 INFO  (1) - OpenSim.Region.Framework.Scenes.Scene [SCENE]: Initialized 0 script instances in Esses Workshop
2022-07-23 06:18:59,115 DEBUG (1) - OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.Watchdog [WATCHDOG]: Started tracking thread Heartbeat-(Esses_Workshop), ID 42
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: If you had asked me last week I would have still had a copy of 0.8.2 on my machine to try as I have mono 6.12 installed.
[11:14] Kayaker Magic: No, I have not tried YEngine and other combinations....
[11:14] Kayaker Magic: Was there a YEngine back then?
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: No YEngine in 0.8.2
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: no
[11:15] Vincent.Sylvester Well it crashes on physics so trying Bullet would be a start
[11:16] Vincent.Sylvester Beyond that I think that version was still compiled on mono 2.10 so that's a big jump
[11:16] Vincent.Sylvester When in doubt compile from source
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: I tried compiling from source, got 21 warnings, then ran that copy, same error
[11:17] Vincent.Sylvester Heartbeat fail should not cause application termination unless there is something else wrong
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: You have double checked the configuration of the region to make sure it isn't a typo in an ini file?
[11:18] Kayaker Magic: If I switch to Yeti master, it comes up fine with an almost identical INI file.
[11:20] Vincent.Sylvester Compile in debug so it gives you line numbers and then start directly so you can fetch the full Stacktrace to see where it goes wrong, the log errors are not always descriptive enough
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: It is the "Object reference not set to an instance of an object" error that is of concern.
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: One thing that came to mind is a possible error in a database configuration string.
[11:21] Kayaker Magic: There is a stack trace in the log after that error, should I dump in here?
[11:22] Vincent.Sylvester The part under managed stacktrace that points to the code directly, skip the memory dump
[11:23] Kayaker Magic: I mean more stuff in the log after that error message, here I will paste it:
[11:23] Kayaker Magic: 2022-07-23 06:18:59,124 ERROR (Heartbeat-(Esses_Workshop)) - OpenSim.Application [APPLICATION]: ^M
APPLICATION EXCEPTION DETECTED: System.UnhandledExceptionEventArgs^M
Exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at OpenSim.Region.Framework.Scenes.Scene.get_TimeDilation () [0x0000b] in <35ba7167b3194ad9abe7c1bc9afcecb6>:0
  at OpenSim.Region.Framework.Scenes.Scene.Update (System.Int32 frames) [0x0050e] in <35ba7167b3194ad9abe7c1bc9afcecb6>:0
  at OpenSim.Region.Framework.Scenes.Scene.Heartbeat () [0x0000c] in <35ba7167b3194ad9abe7c1bc9afcecb6>:0
  at System.Threading.ThreadHelper.ThreadStart_Context (System.Object state) [0x00014] in <de882a77e7c14f8ba5d298093dde82b2>:0
  at System.Threading.ExecutionContext.RunInternal (System.Threading.ExecutionContext executionContext, System.Threading.ContextCallback callback, System.Object state, System.Boolean preserveSyncCtx) [0x00071] in <de882a77e7c14f8ba5d298093dde82b2>:0
[11:23] Kayaker Magic:  System.Threading.ExecutionContext.Run (System.Threading.ExecutionContext executionContext, System.Threading.ContextCallback callback, System.Object state, System.Boolean preserveSyncCtx) [0x00000] in <de882a77e7c14f8ba5d298093dde82b2>:0
  at System.Threading.ExecutionContext.Run (System.Threading.ExecutionContext executionContext, System.Threading.ContextCallback callback, System.Object state) [0x0002b] in <de882a77e7c14f8ba5d298093dde82b2>:0
  at System.Threading.ThreadHelper.ThreadStart () [0x00008] in <de882a77e7c14f8ba5d298093dde82b2>:0 ^M
Application is terminating: True^M
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Are you building the code as a release? You need to run it compiled for debug mode to get a stack trace with tile and line numbers.
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Why does someone want to still us 0.8.2 if the rest of the regions are 0.9.x? Does the person have a script that won't run in 0.9?
[11:25] Kayaker Magic: I thought the default build was debug. I just did ./ and xbuild
[11:26] Kayaker Magic: Person thinks that mesh uploads work different in 0.8, has not been receptive to "let me teach you the correct way to upload mesh"
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Ah, ok.
[11:27] Vincent.Sylvester I would not even entertain that level of stupidity, enabling that is not the way to go
[11:27] Kayaker Magic: Now that I think about it, she probably remembers how Bullet builds physics models for you.
[11:28] Vincent.Sylvester So then upload bad mesh and pollute everything with potentially corrupt data causing other regions to crash even, fun
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: There have been database migrations between 0.8.2 and 0.9 which might also be an issue.
[11:30] Kayaker Magic: OK, that gives me a few ideas to try: Give her 0.9 with Bullet, force her to listen to mesh upload suggestions...
[11:31] Kayaker Magic: Try bringing up her 0.8 with Bullet... Enough about this today. I have other questions!
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: (at phone..)
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: That would be a better idea thatn trying to get a 0.8 region running in a grid running mostly 0.9
[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: Any other questions, Kayaker?
[11:35] Kayaker Magic: I'm trying to figure out when things are written to the region assetcache. If I rez an object in a region, I don't see it in that cache. When does that happen? Only after a successful fetch from the main fsassets?
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: That sounds like a qusetion for Ubit, once he is off the phone.
[11:37] Kayaker Magic: And if you rez two copies of something, each one gets its own UUID, right?
[11:39] Kayaker Magic: but each object has to have asset UUIDs for all its textures, are those cached in the assetcache by their asset UUIDs?
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: yes to both.
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: uuid is the identifier of any asset
[11:40] Kayaker Magic: by asset UUID I mean the UUID in fsassets, is a texture cached in assetcashe by the same UUID?
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: as i said the identifier of a asset is only its uuid
[11:43] Kayaker Magic: I guess what I am asking is: If I look in the region database I see an object stored by its rezzed UUID, but is the only thing stored in the assetcache the atomic parts of it stored by the fsasset UUIDs?
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: a object does lost uuids of the textures ( materials etc) it uses
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: does list
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: a object can be stored as a asset also, ofc
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: that stacktrace is strange
[11:45] Kayaker Magic: If I create a new object, say out of two cubes, is that object in the fsasset yet? WHen does it get saved the first time?
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: something very worng with that region
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: no a diference in objects is that are on the region db only ( own format )
[11:46] Vincent.Sylvester Prims are not assets, textures, mesh, animations, scripts, etc are assets. You cannot create an asset just rezzing a prim
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: they turn into a asset where taken to inventory
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: when..
[11:47] Vincent.Sylvester Yup
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: just because implementation, in a region there are scene parts and scene object groups :)
[11:48] Kayaker Magic: So if I rez a cube, nothing happens in fsassets or assetcache, if I put a new texture on it, the texture comes from fsassets, and is saved in assetcache.
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: that have own storage on dbs
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: yes
[11:48] Kayaker Magic: OK, I think I'm getting the idea.
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: on the oposite, textures are directly uploaded into grid ( fsassets)
[11:49] Vincent.Sylvester That is if they are not textures from the library which each region supplies, so you'd probably have to use a texture that you uploaded yourself
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: ( except dynamic ones )
[11:49] Kayaker Magic: I see
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: so when we apply one to a face, viewer will ask for it
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: vuia assets service
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: via
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: on 0.9.2  via ViewerAsset cap
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: well since some 0.9  when i added that cap support .)
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: objects also have own paths to viewer
[11:51] Kayaker Magic: NP, I always use 0.9.x unless dragged kicking and screaming back...
[11:51] Vincent.Sylvester object viewer cache, that fun thing
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: special protocol to send "objects" to viewer as such..
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: well porotocols,..  object viewer cache uses other udp protocol, one could say
[11:52] Vincent.Sylvester Yeah don't use old viewers you gonna have a bad time lol
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: objects inside other objects are assets ofc
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: btw fs did a release
[11:53] Vincent.Sylvester primitems pointing at the assets
[11:54] Kayaker Magic: FINALLY!
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: not that many diferences
[11:54] Vincent.Sylvester grid status button now works
[11:54] Kayaker Magic: Well that Vivox fix was needed to prevent crashing when HG TPing between some grids.
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: now library does use own caps
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: i had added those caps like in 2018 then removed since no viewer used them
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: alchemy asked me to put them back, so the worked on it, now also fs
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: no big dif
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: just when all viewers do it, region code can be simplified
[11:56] Vincent.Sylvester Well slightly cleaner code too so that's good, so many areas really needing a review
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: removing the hack of giving library on the normal inventory caps
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: no idea if i missed any question
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: phone had to ring jsut at start of meeting, ofc
[11:58] Kayaker Magic: I got usefull replies to my two questions.
[11:58] Kayaker Magic: Hogging a lot of time again! Thanks guys!
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: ahh
[11:58] Vincent.Sylvester You can hop on irc if you need help, don't have for the meeting to roll around
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: i made several (useless) changes on ubode and did commit to git
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: but currently that is kinda broken :p
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, but what would we talk about if all the questions are handled via IRC during the week? :)
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: somehow the old gcc i was using  generates code that fails to do raycasts
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: compiled on win and debian11 gcc, works fine
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: s oa pretty nice bug.. impossible to find
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: gcc jsut went nuts
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: duhhh
[12:00] Vincent.Sylvester Where is the source for that? Been meaning to ask
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: opensim-libs
[12:01] Vincent.Sylvester Maybe I'll get a completely different cryptic error... knowing my luck
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Wow. What and odd sort of bug.
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: wlel no error
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: just raycasts fail
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: no error ... nothing..
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: raycasts used internally to terrain collisions, kinda work till they don't :9
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: then the prim gets odd collisions
[12:02] Vincent.Sylvester Didn't we have a problem with that a while back as well?
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: gcc just lost some code path
[12:03] Vincent.Sylvester It killing cpu
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: a failed init, it used to do.. a lost reference.. no idea
[12:03] Vincent.Sylvester Maybe it's optimizing it away
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: on a recent gcc, same code.. no issues
[12:04] Jamie.Jordan Have a great week yall
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: but i can't compile it on very last gcc, or many will no be able to run it
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: so.. duhhh a bit stuck for now :)
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Jamie. Thanks for coming. See you again next week.
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: 2 late :)
[12:05] Selby.Evans bye all
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Selby. See you next week.
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: have fun sleby
[12:05] Vincent.Sylvester Revert back to working version and then go step by step, time consuming but probably simplest way
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: nad sleby
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: dannng
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: and selby
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: We are just past the hour mark. If there aren't any last minute items for today then we can wrap up todays meeting.
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: yeah i have rl waiting also
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. In that case I will call this meeting to a close. I also have a couple of things I need to get back to.
[12:07] Ubit Umarov: have anice week ppl
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
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