Chat log from the meeting on 2022-05-31

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[10:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[10:59] NevenNate Howell: Hi
[10:59] Andrew Hellershanks: oooh... chat lag
[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby.
[11:00] Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:00] Selby.Evans hi everyone
[11:00] Ubit Umarov: welcome
[11:00] NevenNate Howell: hello
[11:02] Vincent.Sylvester Not much going on this week, minor change to movetotarget was all that went on
[11:02] Vincent.Sylvester Do have some issues I am tracking, but nothing concrete yet
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, NevenNate. Welcome to the OpenSimulator developer meeting. Despite the name you don't have to be a developer to be here.
[11:03] Vincent.Sylvester Did make some minor changes to Gloebit fork to fix some crashes it causes, still not done with that though
[11:03] Vincent.Sylvester Ideally want to get that module to failsafe not crashing the whole simulator
[11:03] NevenNate Howell: I read the office hours before I showed up
[11:03] Ubit Umarov: vincent, that is not core code changes
[11:03] Ubit Umarov: lets keep the meeing abotu opensim core code changes, ok?
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: unless you did submite a patch i didn't notice :)
[11:04] Vincent.Sylvester Nah I was mainly digging around cause it kept showing the mysql driver as the cause, but ended up just being in the module. Not sure if you share that opinion, but I think modules should never cause crashes on their own
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: And yes last week we got reports of 2 issues on recent avatar movement update processing
[11:06] Ubit Umarov: llmovetotarget on attachments was not working well.. fixed now
[11:06] Ubit Umarov: the other report was about some viewers mousewalk feature
[11:06] Ubit Umarov: using that, avatar now moves slower.
[11:07] Ubit Umarov: issue is that vierwer do sent walk  strengh
[11:07] Ubit Umarov: like 3 variations at least
[11:07] Ubit Umarov: in fact could be 9 combinatiosn
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: using keyboard,  it sends nudge mov comand for 250ms of key press
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: then changes to telling  move And Move fast,  2 flags set at same time
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: so there is a low speed move for 250ms, then normal speed that is actualy normal + fast, currently
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: on top of that there is run.. but run is on other protocol message
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: now that mousewalk is a viewers hack triggers the keys
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: BUT..  thye never fixed the timer.., mouse has not keypressed timer,
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: code uses the same key press.. since there was no key press,  that pressed time is zero
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: so..  mousewalk only tells region to move the avatar slowly..
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: seems SL  downgrade regions quality, and they only have one "speed/strength" so we don't notice this there
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: such downgrade means that the minimal avater step is 1 to 1.5m
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: pretty bad
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: currently we have that cut to half
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: and not going to break that, just because incomplete viewer feature code
[11:14] Vincent.Sylvester FS now has a issue open for that so maybe they can send the correct data over that would be the best solution
[11:14] Vincent.Sylvester More code added on movement just makes it behave slower and clunkier, no need to make a mess there
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: well they have to had a timer to that left on avatar click + right click thing
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: also notice that on FS, left click on a prim with touch_start , opens edit on it
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: alch does not seem to do that
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: and also has the mousewalk feature
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: that is in fact nice
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: well the slow speed is only a issue if you want to walk long distance
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: everyone calls a taxi this days.. who walks??
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: ;)
[11:19] Vincent.Sylvester I double click teleport, that was broken in FS for a while would trigger every time, that was... not fun lol
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: If I have to go a long way inworld I fly (when allowed) or run.
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: better have those mouse actions just disable
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: not that easy to not click on wrong spot
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: like click on animesth things
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: jezz very hard to do :)
[11:21] Vincent.Sylvester Would be neat to have it in combo with a modifier key, but hey at least I don't have to use the map to teleport, that would be pain
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: this is mousewalk
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: not that slow slow i guess
[11:22] Vincent.Sylvester You notice that quite a bit when you fiddle with the divisors for walking speed
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd say that is a reasonable walking speed.
[11:23] Vincent.Sylvester Some people want to Bolt everywhere heh
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: ofc thois region is on defaults
[11:23] Vincent.Sylvester I made walk even slower to match the animation via the constant so I didn't notice it at all
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: yeah our keys walk alrady looks like running
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: see
[11:24] Vincent.Sylvester forward moonwalk
[11:24] Vincent.Sylvester Skating along
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: hmm?~
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: There is a bit of that
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: im not mickel jackson
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: u don't moonwalk :p
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: err i dont
[11:25] Vincent.Sylvester Avatar key run is faster than I can ride my bike most roads
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: seen on a viewer a moonwalk option
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: The walking animation and forward motion have never been 100% synchronized.
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: but didn't test it, when went back looking, did not found it :P
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: No
[11:26] NevenNate Howell: could there be a set speed, with a is_running bool true/false saved on sim like in most games then x2 speed
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: viewers do change animation rate, based on speed
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: at least should..
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: there is the always running
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: tap tap hold does work on with the mouse
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Whether walking or running there is a slight slippage of the foot on the ground that can be seen if one looks closely.
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: none of thise things was made to close look
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: everything fails on close look
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: it still takes a lot of imagination to feel the gaps
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: "immersion"
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: avatars looking more like cartoons may improve that actually
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: brain is ness prone to compare with rl
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: but just guessing
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: well on the other hand brain also does fixe those isues
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: bc brain does not see what is there, but what it expects to be there..
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: ( like the mars face..  horses rinding in clouds.. etc etc )
[11:33] Selby.Evans In RL we have quantum mechanics that is more weird than what I see with close inspection in OS.
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: well yeah
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: but luckly quatum effects at human size scale are rare things in rl
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: tunneling would be disturbing thing
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: ohh tanks here have a extra armour thing
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: is they stop a X meters from target, bullets tunnel not touching them :P
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: ( consequence of simulation only in timesteps of 20ms ))no whisper echo)
[11:37] Vincent.Sylvester Btw the meeting logs for the 24th are still missing from the wiki
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: so fun seeing in tv car wheels moving back
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: or heli blades, etc
[11:38] Kayaker Magic: Have I missed much?
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: i did add a limit to angular motion to avoid that here
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: not that nice
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, That's odd. I was sure I posted the log to  the wiki last week.
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: but does irritate me seening in games also, wheels moving back
[11:39] NevenNate Howell: talk on mouse movement Kayaker
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Kayaker.
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Not that much.
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: or WoT tanks tracks
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: ( thats nyquist sampling theorem / sampling aliasing )
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: i still didnt look to ODE ray/terrain code :)
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: still on TODO
[11:41] Selby.Evans avatar tunneling: Pass through walls

You need double-click move (above) turned on.
You just need to cam to the inside of a place and use the double-click to there.
To cam through a wall, zoom up close to it.
Then rotate your view (side-pointing arrow) till you see the other side.
This won't work in a place where the TP landing point is set.
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, log has been posted.
[11:42] Vincent.Sylvester Merci
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: think i made physics sit on prims a bit tp also :)
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: should realy put restrictions on them
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: in fact limit those sits to avatars on same parcel
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: That would be a good idea.
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: don't remember not, but at thing they had 10m range
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: think
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: err and not? now !
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: but sit on a roof or something is a fast way to get someplace :)
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: That is true but I do find that some objects don't let you sit so that doesn't always work.
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: A) you need ubode
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: b) the prim must have  nice physics mesh
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: As it doesn't always seem to work with standard prims it could be the regions weren't using ubode.
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: it works with standard non phantom prims
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at 10 minutes left in the hour. Any other topics for discussion today?
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: see?
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks nods to Ubit
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: if you hit a phantom, it does like bullet..  puts you on a silly place
[11:53] Vincent.Sylvester After the fourth time being catapulted into space I made a habit now to add sit and stand targets to everything
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: mesh makers also forget this
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: the mesh for physics should also be ok for sits, and also ok for raycasts
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: not only script but the camera ones also
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: I suspect a lot of mesh makers may not think about the raycasting part.
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: many don't even think physics :)
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: well seems ll plans to change meshs and materials
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: so, we may lose viewers, if thy decide to change to that losing "legacy"
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Is there any note(s) in the wiki about mesh and what one needs to take in to account re: sits and raycasts?
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: possible they can't bc SL is filled with "legacy"
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: have a viewer dev giving me such news, as if that will be the end of opensim
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: when  it will, at most, be the end of that viewer on opensim, unless it stays complatible
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: and compatible
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: but well people said things..
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: lets wait and see
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Right. If it is just something that LL is "planning on doing" there is little point in worrying about it until they say they are doing it.
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: actuall more than that
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: until a TPV does add that code is a usable way
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: i don't look to SL viewers code, for features
[12:02] NevenNate Howell: Their are viewers that are optimized for opensim because they did not like the changes in SL
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: those do not work on opensim
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: i only look to code of viewers "for opensim"
[12:03] Kayaker Magic: I try to go to the TPV meetings, but missed the last few. Have they moved to a different time or location?
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: wel and only a few :)
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: no idea
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: looked on the movies site?
[12:04] Ubit Umarov:
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: keeps a record of meetings like that
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: and other things :)
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: last there seems to be may 13
[12:05] NevenNate Howell: Firestorm does not work on standalone out of box by the way I had to download cool viewer
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: works fine for mw
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: well or did several long weeks ago
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Really? I haven't used my Standalone that recently but I have never noticed an issue accessing it with FS.
[12:06] NevenNate Howell: I tried mine yesterday new OS and Firestorm and it just hangs
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: last time i did run a standalone :)
[12:06] NevenNate Howell: I just accepted everything that did not require an entry
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: NevenNate, What happens when you try using FS with a standalone?
[12:07] NevenNate Howell: It just hangs
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: On startup or when trying to login?
[12:07] NevenNate Howell: Cool logs right in but firestorm does nothing but says cannot connect even if I run both at the same time
[12:07] NevenNate Howell: login
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: ok
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm starting up my Standalone copy of OS.
[12:09] Vincent.Sylvester If you believe there to be an issue with OpenSim in that regard putting a mantis ticket with log files in would help, difficult to debug these things without seeing what goes on
[12:09] Vincent.Sylvester A connection failure and stuck login generally hints at bad network configuration
[12:09] NevenNate Howell: Ill try to figure it out I dont think its OS I think its FS
[12:09] NevenNate Howell: like I said Cool works fine
[12:11] NevenNate Howell: I just don't use SL anymore and see no Firestorm stuff posted for OS so thought I would mention it
[12:11] Selby.Evans Scenegate works fine
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Check the OS console for any messages that might indicate the source of the problem.
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: working fine for me
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: just did update a standalone, fired it and did log fine with fs 66095
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: 6.5.5
[12:13] Selby.Evans must go -- bye all
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: cya
[12:13] NevenNate Howell: Ill run stuff on my end and see If I can find the problem then
[12:14] NevenNate Howell: ill let you all know
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Selby. See you next week.
[12:14] NevenNate Howell: good day everyone
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: ports at opensim.ini and regions.ini are the usual
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: noobs issue :p
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: ( and less noobs also )
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: I logged in to my standalone using OS that I last built on May 4
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: Oh
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: NevenNate, let us know what you find. I'm testing it now with OS that I built just now.
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: seems metro gird will close
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: grid..
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: they have it on their news site
[12:18] Vincent.Sylvester Surprised me quite a bit
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't think I've ever been there.
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: one person that used to be part of the admin, used to be here on al meetings
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... my Standalone is throwing out some errors from ubODE ->  invalid degenerated mesh
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: sheera?
[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, Sheera. Haven't seen Sheera in a long time.
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: yeah guess years even :(
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: used to sit here to my left
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: hm and did the logs no?
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: I just logged in to my Standalone using FS 6.5.3 without any problem,
[12:23] Vincent.Sylvester Kinda sad to see them go, they been a constant for a long time
[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I remember the tiger(?) avatar.
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: yes the avatar was like a tiger
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: humanoid tiger :)
[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: My friends list showed that she came in to this meeting via
[12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I should pop over to metro to leave her a message before that grid closes down.
[12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: On that note, I think it is time to close down this meeting.
[12:25] Ubit Umarov: think she was about to leave metro also
[12:25] Ubit Umarov: rl things
[12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: We were a small group this week. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
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