Chat log from the meeting on 2021-08-10

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[11:01] Selby.Evans hi everyone
[11:01] Gavin.Hird Hi Andrews
[11:01] Jagga Meredith: hi
[11:02] Kayaker Magic: Hello all!
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Ubit in the house!
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Ubit.
[11:05] Selby.Evans hi Ubit
[11:06] Ubit Umarov: hwo are u all doing?
[11:06] Ubit Umarov: how..
[11:06] Kayaker Magic: I have a question about the map in the viewer:
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Go ahead, Kayaker.
[11:07] Kayaker Magic: When I first bring it up and click on nearby places it says "loading..." Eventually it works, then forgets and goes back to "loading.." next time I open the map. What is going on there?
[11:07] Kayaker Magic: It seems to say "loading..." more and longer than I remember...
[11:08] Gavin.Hird do you see a blue ring also?
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: Yes
[11:08] Gavin.Hird right
[11:09] Gavin.Hird some changes server side 0.9.2 made that prevalent, but I have not found exactly why
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: map can be a big flood
[11:10] Selby.Evans must be a  Firestorm problem  I don't see that in SceneGate
[11:10] Gavin.Hird if you however search the name of the map location first then you can click it
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: there is anti spamm code still active because fs 4.3 or somthing
[11:11] Gavin.Hird it seems like it is your "horizon" if you understand what I mean that is limited
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: the thing just did not stop asking about map
[11:11] Kayaker Magic: ?Anti spam? FS 4.3? I'm on 6.4.21 firestorm.
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: seen cool vl get blocked on that a few days ago... 5min without map :p
[11:12] Gavin.Hird limited to 2-3 region border hops around you
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: i only see that now and then
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: guess comms delays
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: of some kind
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: here working fast it seems
[11:13] Jamie.Jordan Hi everybody
[11:13] Gavin.Hird Hi Jamie
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Jamie
[11:14] Kayaker Magic: When I got here, I was getting blue circle everywhere, now even remote locations are working fine.
[11:14] Selby.Evans hi Jamie
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: map is not just images it is parcels etc info
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: a ton of http and lludp goin gon
[11:14] Kayaker Magic: I wondered if it was related to the time it takes to load the local terrain, seems to take longer to resolve on big var regions.
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: jezz no terrain
[11:15] Jagga Meredith: +
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: terrain is just on the image
[11:15] Jagga Meredith: -
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: buy parcels info yeah
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: and other info
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: avatar dots. :)
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: I mean, while I am waiting for the terrain around me to load, the map is slow. then after all the terrain on my current region has arrived, the map is fast.
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: ofc that while loading a region, all you net is in use basicly
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: worse your cpu
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: not the best moment to also look to map
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: There have been several commits to the OS code base this past week.
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: ah any news abotu that animesh crossing issue kay?
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Several changes were made to flotsam cache. It is better about what it expires and when.
[11:22] Kayaker Magic: No, Beq says she is getting me authorized to sent Jiras, but she was on vacation and nothing has happened on that yet.
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: ok
[11:22] Kayaker Magic: I'm going to remake the video in SL, submit it to SL as an SL bug.
[11:23] Kayaker Magic: Hopefully it will get fixed, and the fix trickle down into OpenSim FireStorm.
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: yeah it does look like a deep animesh renderig issue
[11:23] Gavin.Hird If it gets fixed as a SL bug it will be implemented in all viewer
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: not high hopes
[11:24] Gavin.Hird LL is on an odd development path at the moment...
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, more odd changes or just them continuing with the latest round of odd changes?
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin isn't saying. :)
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Any other questions re: OS for today?
[11:29] Jagga Meredith: I've got a ticket open on mantis
[11:29] Jagga Meredith: osTeleportAgent( ToucherID, SimAddress, LandingPoint, LookAt );
[11:29] Jagga Meredith: first time usage LookAt appears to be ignored.
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, What is the mantis number?
[11:29] Jagga Meredith: not quite following the discussion there
[11:30] Jagga Meredith: 8926(?)
[11:30] Kayaker Magic: The lookat vector doesn't work in SL for some of their original calls, if memory serves.
[11:30] Jagga Meredith: where is the code?
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, Yes, 8926.
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: as i said on mantis, viewers have own ideas abotu lookat
[11:32] Jagga Meredith: ah ok, so its an FS issue
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: and on kind of teleports, that is just not used
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: lookat i mean
[11:32] Jagga Meredith: works on everything after the first usage
[11:34] Jagga Meredith: I'm using it in my mall HUD to face the corect wall
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: well a region does the same on all calls inc the first
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: so.. dunno
[11:35] Jagga Meredith: where's the code?
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: git://
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: viewers on respective repos :p
[11:37] Jagga Meredith: can you give me a hint on which directory in opensim?  searching hasnt gotten me anywhere
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: that starts at ossl.cs
[11:38] Jagga Meredith: ok
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: ossl_api.cs even
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: OpenSim/Region/ScriptEngine/Shared/Api/Implementation/OSSL_Api.cs
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: abotu last week code changes andrew started
[11:39] Kayaker Magic: grep is your friend for finding stuff in the sources. Or find . -name
[11:39] Jagga Meredith: got it
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: a few to flotsam cache, ofc
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: added code to actively exclude baked textures current in use during file expires
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: added datetie option now
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: so to expire everything but aht region sees in use
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: unlke clear that jsut deletes all
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: handled a case of creators data, older versions did
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: and was causing some avatar names to not be found
[11:41] Mike.Lorrey hay
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Mike.
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: namely nebadon :)
[11:42] Gavin.Hird as long as it does not delete the region...
[11:42] Gavin.Hird Hi Mike
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, neovo
[11:42] Mike.Lorrey whats the topic?
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: made dynamic textures only see and use the asset cache
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: so they don't mess up with grid asset servers
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Mike, the changes made to Open SImulator this past week.
[11:43] Mike.Lorrey ah, you mean you can use a texture key on dynamic textures rather than having to refer to a URL online?
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: Ohh changed the rainbox texture again
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: ll had te colors order wrong for the primary rainbow
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: we had them fixed on the texture
[11:44] Mike.Lorrey I am particularly confused about the EEP functions and the gross lack of documentation on their use
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: then in a nonsense way ll changed the order on the code
[11:44] Gavin.Hird So now I need a rainbow flag in the viewer code to set which one to use?
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: making the GPU or shader waste time on that
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: so silly
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: well bc of that had to upload another texture to fix the colors order
[11:45] Gavin.Hird documentation?
[11:45] Mike.Lorrey yes on the wiki
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: on git  :p
[11:45] Kayaker Magic: "the source code is the documentation"
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: today did fix mantis something bug
[11:45] Gavin.Hird right now the LL viewer project seems like the scrum project from hell changing prios on a daily basis
[11:46] Mike.Lorrey well I'm not gonna write documentation for you guys, last time I volunteered someone turned off my ability to edit the wiki
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: <osmantis> Bug #8927: Notices will become un-selectable unless you include an attachement. ( ): has been RESOLVED.
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: this one
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: xmlrpc groups ( used here at osg and others) was not sending some needed info on notices
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: on group notices
[11:47] Kayaker Magic: OH! Did anyone notice I have been putting a few changes in the Wiki as I figure things out?
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: That seems an odd bug. I don't recall seeing that issue and I typically use xmlrpcgroups.
[11:47] Mike.Lorrey oh notices: Is there a way to make notices older than 2 weeks stay in the group info dialog if there are no newer events added?
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: we have no expire on those Mike.Lorrey
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: not even sure we are timestampling them
[11:47] Mike.Lorrey hmm mine seem to disappear
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: possible we are
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: kitely may have a expire
[11:48] Mike.Lorrey lol yes thats likely
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: here we can only talk abotu core implementation :)
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: wel think i did cover last week code.
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: not much
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: ahh
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: More changes than the week before, iirc. :)
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: load of oars
[11:49] Mike.Lorrey oh I had a knock down/drag out with Ilan the other day about how OS behavior on mesh uploading treatment of textures changed with 0.9.1. It used to put a meshes textures into a subfolder named after the mesh name, but now the INI only lets you not include them in the creators inventory at all, or just dump them into the main texture folder. What gives?
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: because reasons i add made assets particulary slow
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: even when already present on grid
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: added a change that should speedup those a lot
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: don't remember where we put them now :)
[11:50] Mike.Lorrey a) I need the textures I upload on meshes to be in my inventory 1) I don't want them just dumped into the main texture folder, since theres the 1,000 items per folder limit I have lost access to 4 years worth of work because I've been so busy lately uploading a lot of meshes for my mars base project.
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: yeha think they go to main
[11:51] Mike.Lorrey I want the old pre 0.9.1 functionality back
[11:52] Mike.Lorrey just dumping them all into the main texture folder is terrible, polluting, etc
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: at moment  i do not remember the reasons
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: A limit of 1,000 items per folder?
[11:53] Mike.Lorrey yeah kitely does this thing that limits what you can see to 1,000 items per folder so that the servers are not hammered every time someone hypergrids in
[11:53] Gavin.Hird ask Kitely to fix it then
[11:54] Mike.Lorrey which is actually a good idea
[11:54] Gavin.Hird they don't run standard opensim
[11:54] Mike.Lorrey yeah and I've beein such a dick to Ilan that he's talking to Oren about fixing the behavior of the mesh texture upload to how it used to be
[11:54] Kayaker Magic: Kitely is interested in fixing side effects of the 1000 item folders, but don't care where new textures land in inventory.
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: "how it used to be" is hardly called a fix
[11:55] Mike.Lorrey but, IMHO what they are doing is a good idea for grid stability and should be considered to be a proper behavior, BUT you need to have meshes upload their textures to their own subfolder like it used to before 0.9.1
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: most like it is breaking something..
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Ah, a Kitely issue. There may have been some throttles on loading to prevent the hammering of the asset server. Sounds like they may have chosen a different way to limit the load on the asset server.
[11:55] Mike.Lorrey Ubit, if it worked better before, then what you did is a "break" not a "fix"
[11:55] Gavin.Hird Depending on which viewer you use, you can also set default upload folders and then move it later
[11:56] Mike.Lorrey no offense, Ubit, you do great work
[11:56] Mike.Lorrey software exists to minimize paperwork
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: that is a myth lol
[11:56] Mike.Lorrey if I wanted to spend all my time doing filing I'd still be designing on a draftmans board and filing in cabinets
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: paperwork increased with software :)
[11:57] Gavin.Hird yup
[11:57] Mike.Lorrey only for idiots that print up their emails
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: possible only now in some areas it may be decreasing
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: yea. Software allows you to generate paper(work) at a faster rate. ;)
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:57] Mike.Lorrey sure but it shouldn't make it harder to organize your data
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: no, it shouldn't
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: it is actually viewers job to tell where to put things on upload
[11:58] Jamie.Jordan I need to step out early today. great meeting.
[11:58] Kayaker Magic: I've got to run, have an appointment in RL
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: ant that can be very confusing also
[11:58] Gavin.Hird TC Kayaker
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Kayaker. Thanks for dropping in.
[11:58] Gavin.Hird as I said dependent on viewer you can set default upload locations
[11:58] Mike.Lorrey ok where is this viewer setting that lets me tell it to use custom folders for inventory?
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Mike, If you are using Firestorm go to Preferences -> Firestorm tab (on left), then Uploads tab (on the right)
[12:00] Mike.Lorrey I am there now
[12:00] Gavin.Hird In FS Preferences->Firestorm->Uploads
[12:00] Mike.Lorrey there is no such setting
[12:00] Mike.Lorrey it only specifies overall folders, not custom folders per upload
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: yes there is
[12:01] Mike.Lorrey want a screenshot?
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: wlel those that
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: The preferences page says -> To change a destination folder, right click on it in inventory and choose "Use as default for"
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: does that..
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Mike, which version of Firestorm are you using?
[12:01] Mike.Lorrey yeah I dont want a default folder
[12:02] Mike.Lorrey I'm on the latest version
[12:02] Mike.Lorrey I want each mesh upload to create a new subfolder for its textures
[12:02] Mike.Lorrey like it USED to do
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: but long since i look to model upload
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: in fact started changed it and did not fiished
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:03] Gavin.Hird I have never seen it do that
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: I've never uploaded a textured mesh to know what is the current (or old) behaviour.
[12:03] Gavin.Hird which viewer did you use?
[12:03] Mike.Lorrey my current texture folders oldest texture dates back to June of last year. I am now missing textures dating back to 1016
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: missing why ?
[12:03] Mike.Lorrey Firestorm 6.4.13 (63251) Mar  1 2021 14:53:45 (64bit / SSE2) (Firestorm-Releasex64) with OpenSimulator support
Release Notes

You are at 355.1, 411.4, 24.7 in Dev Outreach located at
SLURL: hop://
(global coordinates 2,839,140.0, 2,560,670.0, 24.7)
OpenSim Yeti Dev, git 2021-08-10T17:02:27+01:00, Mono  (Unix/Mono)
Release Notes

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5700HQ CPU @ 2.70GHz (2693.77 MHz)
Memory: 16300 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit (Build 19041.1110)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 965M/PCIe/SSE2
Graphics Card Memory: 2048 MB

Windows Graphics Driver Version:
OpenGL Version: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 471.11

RestrainedLove API: (disabled)
libcurl Version: libcurl/7.54.1 OpenSSL/1.0.2l zlib/1.2.8 nghttp2/1.40.0
J2C Decoder Version: KDU v8.0.6
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Studio 2.01.08
[12:03] Mike.Lorrey  81.3.10+gb223419+chromium-81.0.4044.138
  Chromium: 81.0.4044.138
LibVLC Version: 2.2.8
Voice Server Version: Vivox 4.10.0000.32327

Settings mode: Firestorm
Viewer Skin: Firestorm (Grey)
Window size: 1886x989 px
Font Used: Deja Vu (96 dpi)
Font Size Adjustment: 0 pt
UI Scaling: 1.075
Draw distance: 416 m
Bandwidth: 550 kbit/s
LOD factor: 2.375
Render quality: High-Ultra (6/7)
Advanced Lighting Model: Yes
Texture memory: Dynamic (512 MB min / 10% Cache / 10% VRAM)
VFS (cache) creation time (UTC): 2021-6-19T2:27:1 
Built with MSVC version 1916
Packets Lost: 0/180,683 (0.0%)
August 10 2021 12:03:38 SLT
[12:04] Mike.Lorrey Missing because of the 1,000 items per folder limit.
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: well that limit is wrong
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Mike, same version of FS I have. It will have the Uploads place in Preferences. It just seems it won't do what you really want.
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: guess oyu need to start deleting or moving things out to other folders
[12:05] Mike.Lorrey Andrew, all I want is for it to behave like it did before 0.9.1 which IMHO broke what was an optimal feature performance
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: in your own order and organization ideas
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: without having me impose your ideas to all
[12:05] Mike.Lorrey I shouldn't have to do paperwork that the system used to do for me, you are increasing my workload
[12:05] Gavin.Hird where did you see this behavior? - On Kitely because I have never seen it
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Mike, Is the change only in Kitely or in other OS based grids?
[12:06] Mike.Lorrey before 0.9.1 the subfolder behavior existed on all grids
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: if there is such limit, then you need to move things around, acording to youur own ideas
[12:06] Gavin.Hird On SL not, because that is the reson why they added the uploads defaults to the viewr as people expressed frustration getting everything in the viewer default folders
[12:06] Mike.Lorrey see now you are intentionally pissing me off
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: im sure yr things are there. just hidden by the limit
[12:07] Mike.Lorrey yes they are there, your laziness is forcing me to waste many days to reorganize my inventory every time I am busy doing actual productive work.
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, do you recall a change being made to the OS code base that changes where mesh textures are saved during an upload?
[12:08] Gavin.Hird lazyness?
[12:08] Gavin.Hird that is pretty rich Mike
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: so many things changed..  :)
[12:08] Mike.Lorrey when you bork a useful feature, and refuse to fix it, you are lazy
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: that one possible back in that made uploads actually work
[12:09] Gavin.Hird I have never seen the functionality you describe in action
[12:09] Gavin.Hird so no
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Sounds like something worth looking in to. I can see the benefit of being able to upload to a sub-folder of the folder that will hold the mesh being uploaded.
[12:09] Mike.Lorrey well I have snapshots documenting the subfolders that used to be made by the system but they aren't in my suitcase folder
[12:10] Mike.Lorrey if you give me your email I'll bury your email box in documentation
[12:10] Gavin.Hird again did this only happen on Kitely?
[12:10] Mike.Lorrey then you'll have to reorganize your email
[12:10] Mike.Lorrey no it happened on all grids
[12:10] Gavin.Hird never seen it
[12:10] Mike.Lorrey then you clearly are not a regular creator
[12:11] Gavin.Hird really?
[12:11] Mike.Lorrey once again coming here has been an entire waste of time dealing with rude people who have no intention of fixing problems
[12:11] Gavin.Hird good
[12:11] Gavin.Hird have a nice day
[12:11] Mike.Lorrey fuck off
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't think anyone said it won't be fixed. I do see comments saying that people weren't aware of that behaviour.
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: [12:11:45] Mike.Lorrey fuck off ??  now that was stupid
[12:15] Mike.Lorrey you idiots cant even fix hypergrid teleporting
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: A mantis for the issue would be helpful so the idea doesn't get lost and tests can be made to confirm if the behaviour did indeed exist in the main OS code base.
[12:16] Gavin.Hird A simple quit will resolve your issue
[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: We are past the quarter after the hour mark. Any other issues before we wrap up for today?
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: well i did ban him
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: to came here and insult.. no thanks
[12:19] Gavin.Hird with so many idiots around I guess we should all bugger off
[12:19] Gavin.Hird :-))
[12:19] Selby.Evans bye all
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Selby.
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: cya selby.Evans
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Let's call this meeting to a close.
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
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