Chat log from the meeting on 2021-05-04

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[11:04] Pius Noel: heloo everybody
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: hi andrew
[11:05] Gavin.Hird Hi Pius, Andrew
[11:05] Ubit Umarov: hi pius
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I forgot I had to reboot my computer as there was a recent update to the video drivers on my machine.
[11:05] Ubit Umarov: and you do want the latest bugs?
[11:06] Bill Blight: Moved the region to a new server so let me know if anybody has any issues
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Jamie.
[11:06] Ubit Umarov: ohh ty bill
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit: :)
[11:06] Gavin.Hird Hi Jamie
[11:06] Jamie.Jordan Hi everybody
[11:06] Bill Blight: new server has a bit more resources and bandwidth ... so should be much better
[11:06] Ubit Umarov: cool
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Most of the time the changes don't affect me as they are related to support for newer cards.
[11:07] Pius Noel: I could not connect from SandBox III at first. I had to go home and try again
[11:07] Ubit Umarov: thats basilcy for all
[11:07] Ubit Umarov: and some are jsut for new gpus and special games
[11:07] Bill Blight: well some hurdles to be expected as some regions may have the old address cached
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: hmm lbsa new about it
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: knew...
[11:08] Bill Blight: well that's good
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: hmm lps still shows things??
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: had idea i had killed it
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: What metric replaces LPS?
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: none.. we had no lps anyways
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Whatever it was it had some relation to script activity.
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: lines per second guess was from first sl script engine
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: i know at least a coder that puts all the script on one line
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: so wrong stats :)
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Right. It was more a functions per second type metric.
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: No news on the code front this week as there have been no changes pushed since the 22 of last month.
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone else have any news to report?
[11:14] Sim Stats  shouts: This Region Running, OpenSim Yeti Dev, git 2021-04-22T13:33:00+01:00, Mono  (Unix/Mono) with YEngine, and ubODE Physics
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Sim Stats had something to say. :)
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: It should probably say "This Region is running" instead of "This Region Running". :)
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: yeah was more functions..  but only on same, not all
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: so.. not a full metric
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: No, it wasn't.
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: adn removed from viewers also
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: I only saw the number when I was looking at the WebStats output.
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: hmm seems someone changed a script here
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: so another calm meeting ?
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: No one else has news this week. Any questions or problems?
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: hmm no point talking abotu weater.. bill didn't change eep settings here
[11:18] Pius Noel: nothing so far ;)
[11:19] Gavin.Hird LL did something strange to their viewer repo: They created a new brnach with EEP completely stripped out. Not sure what they are up to
[11:19] Gavin.Hird branch*
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: (oops dont tell gavin.. i still didn't lest last dayturn.. )
[11:19] Gavin.Hird oh, no
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: hmm how did they striped eep? it is all over the render
[11:20] Gavin.Hird the comment said it had been a ery painful and manual process
[11:20] Gavin.Hird very*
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: i bet it was :)
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: If it was so hard to remove it does make one wonder what they are planning.
[11:21] Gavin.Hird exactly
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: yeah pain == lots of $$
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: How long has eep been around? I wouldn't think they would be trying to replace it with something else already.
[11:22] Gavin.Hird they also posted a UI project viewer
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: 2 years?
[11:22] Gavin.Hird not sure I think all the changes was great
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: well they worked on it for ages..
[11:23] Gavin.Hird the UI changes has been in the works almost longer than EEP
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Nothing in the change log associated with teh branch creation that provides any clue?
[11:23] Gavin.Hird and - voila - a nea AVATAR menu!
[11:23] Gavin.Hird new*
[11:24] Gavin.Hird I can't type today
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: hmm i see a avatar menu there --^
[11:24] Gavin.Hird Not really Andrew
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: hmm there ^---
[11:24] Gavin.Hird they had a Me menu
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, ok. It will have to be a wait and see as to what they are going to do with that branch.
[11:24] Gavin.Hird now there is a Me and Avatar menu
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: hmm see no Me
[11:25] Gavin.Hird in the LL viewer?
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: fs
[11:25] Gavin.Hird I am talking about the LL project vidwer
[11:25] Gavin.Hird viewer
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: oops
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:26] Gavin.Hird :-))
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: well my ll viewer does have Me and not avatar
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:26] Gavin.Hird exactly
[11:26] Gavin.Hird so they took 3 years to work out how to add the avatar menu
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: didn't update? odd
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: i didn't run it for ages
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: Second Life Release (64bit)
[11:27] Gavin.Hird the release viewer never updates to a project viewer (I hope)
[11:28] Gavin.Hird although they just had a fix where a new viewer install immediately updated itself to the next release candidate, which is a bit of an oops
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: AHh i know why lps shown things
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: that  index is wrong.
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: it is actually index 2 region sleep time
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: something wrong for ages
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: [11:13:26] Bill Blight: "Script LPS: " + StringTruncate((string)llList2Float( Stats, STATS_SCRIPT_LPS ),7); <--- this index
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: There you go.
[11:32] Bill Blight: missed that, was not my script originally thought I got all the oopsies
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: that is why it looked so much like region sleep time.. it was sleep time LOL
[11:32] Bill Blight: oh umm
[11:33] Bill Blight: that is not the index that number is the truncate float
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: STATS_SCRIPT_LPS
[11:33] Bill Blight: STATS_SCRIPT_LPS  that is the index
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: this index
[11:33] Bill Blight: ok
[11:33] Bill Blight: so the constant is borked
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: yeah since ages
[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: That would be another reason for the LPS number to appear as being meaningless.
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: tose lazy opensim devs.. gezzz
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: and those..
[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: well no one did complain either
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: that kinda shows how ppl consider it useful..
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: I know I haven't pulled out an inworld stats monitor device in a long time.
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: I wouldn't have noticed whether it reports the same info as in WebStats or not.
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: well you had it in front of you all tuesdays :p
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: had one :)
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't see it from where I'm sitting unless I cam in.
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: excuses.. :P
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: hihihi
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: From my normal camera position I only see the text over the text recorder box.
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: well no point looking now..  Bill removed the line :)
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: If it isn't there it isn't a problem. ;)
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:39] Pius Noel: :)
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: well no index contant for eps i think
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: and several other stats
[11:39] Pius Noel: and I just took a copy :)
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, which script engine is being used here? I see stats for memory used. I didn't think that worked in XEngine. Fixed in Y?
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: ah, yes. It is YEngine that is reported.
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: well why constants.. ppl can just read opensim sources :p
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: that memory is full sim memory i think
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: that guy.. Bill..  you know? may tell more...
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: oops this Bill here ;)
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Anything else to talk about re: OS today or do we get to head out early?
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: we need to respect meeting time
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: or should..
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: We get to twiddle our thumbs for about 15 minutes? :)
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: wel we can all leave, but you :p
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: gezz this index constants are a pain
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: You should make the code generate them automatically.
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: code does not know it either
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Any one want to talk about any projects they are working on?
[11:48] Pius Noel: not for now,
[11:48] Gavin.Hird not sure it is a project, but I updated my bgrid code to master minus EEP
[11:49] Gavin.Hird so as with the strange LL repo, it was a bit of manual work to get there
[11:50] Pius Noel: why no EEP?
[11:50] Gavin.Hird it looks like shit
[11:50] Bill Blight: that memory usage is for the whole sim
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, ok.
[11:50] Bill Blight: not the script engine
[11:50] Gavin.Hird nobody likes it
[11:51] Gavin.Hird and it performs badly too
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Does the function to get memory usage work in YEngine? In X it always reported 16k.
[11:51] Bill Blight: EEP only looks like shit if you don't configure it
[11:51] Bill Blight: looks super nice if you take a few minutes to configure it
[11:51] Gavin.Hird users expect it to look good out of the box
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: You think someone would have made the defaults for EEP look ok.
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, exactly. You want to show off how good it is so it should look good out of the box.
[11:52] Gavin.Hird but more important, it is a frame rate killer and that implicates a lot of users in SL - perhaps not so much so in OS
[11:54] Bill Blight: I only see a FPS drop with EEP on parcel/region crossings other than that they are pretty much the same as with windlight , the FPS drop is just a scare tactic used by people who hate it ..
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: i only don't like stupid eep moon
[11:54] Gavin.Hird It is pretty real for all the laptop users who sit around logged into SL
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: how they did broke it
[11:54] Bill Blight: Just like when ubODE IS THE END ALL OF PHYSICS AND IS UNUSABLE
[11:55] Bill Blight: and yENGINE sUCKS and is going to break everything
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: typical :)
[11:55] Bill Blight: everytime there is a change people think it is the end of the worlds
[11:55] Gavin.Hird the thing is with EEP they have stretched OpenGL 2.1 as far as it gets, and to move beyond that, it is back to the drawing board
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: The sun looks awfully large to the left of me. Almost like we are on a different planet.
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: ohh and ubode will break all Avatars meshes
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: that was the best :p
[11:56] Pius Noel: about ubode.. what are the advantages over BulletSim?
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: ahh and BOM is useless
[11:56] Bill Blight: too many to list . other thand the fact there may be no more updates for Bulletsim ever
[11:57] Gavin.Hird BOM...
[11:57] Pius Noel: last week I started the first ubODE region in my grid
[11:57] Bill Blight: what ubODE is only 4 years old now ...
[11:57] Bill Blight: or is it 5
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: well it is more
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: older that bullet
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: but not at opensim..
[11:57] Bill Blight: right
[11:57] Bill Blight: same with yEngine
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: it was aurora physics engine
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: well a version of it
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: i remade it like 3 times :)
[11:58] Bill Blight: faster collision response is one of the things I prefer from ubODE
[11:59] Pius Noel: so far I'm quite happy with it
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: wel no miracles
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: but it does cover the SL physics model and features more than bullet
[11:59] Gavin.Hird with ubODE you bounce off the walls, hehe
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: can even suicide with mouse stering..
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: steering even
[12:00] Bill Blight: to paraphrase MisterBlue from IRC "Time to make ubODE the default physics engine" ... MisterBlue made BulletSim if you don't know ...
[12:00] Gavin.Hird how does that work?
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: badly gavin.Hird
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:00] Gavin.Hird just like teleporting to 0,0,0?
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: but also bad at sl
[12:00] Selby.Evans must go -- Bye all
[12:01] Gavin.Hird bye Selby
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: cya selby.Evans
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, tc Selby.
[12:01] Pius Noel: bye Selby
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: We made it through the hour. Any last comments before we wrap up todays meeting?
[12:02] Pius Noel: no, thank you
[12:02] Gavin.Hird nah, I'm good
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: well no idea what things ll with break more on eep
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: as they did break the moon
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: so far it looks on on FS ( except moon )
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: looks ok even
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Be well everyone. That will do it for today.
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
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