Chat log from the meeting on 2020-06-23

[10:59] Ada Radius: Hi George
[10:59] Cuga Rajal: I've been wanting to come for a while but RL had other plans
[10:59] Ada Radius: hi Andrew
[10:59] Ada Radius: bigger group today
[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Kayaker, Andrew
[11:00] Ada Radius: Hey Kayaker, though I can't see you
[11:00] Ubit Umarov: <Ubit> meow meow
<Ubit> plugh's cat.. meow..
[11:00] Ubit Umarov: works well :p
[11:00] Kayaker Magic: Ada! Nice to see you here!
[11:00] George Equus: Hi Kayaker
[11:00] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi andrew
[11:00] Kayaker Magic: yeah, OK, hi to everyone else also.
[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit: I was already in the process of logging in before you had the cat alert me to the time. :)
[11:01] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:01] Cuga Rajal: Ive been having new issues with my server, when would be a good time to ask about that?
[11:01] Ubit Umarov: next feb 30th?
[11:01] Ubit Umarov: :p
[11:02] Cuga Rajal: *facepaws*
[11:02] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Cuga
[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: tell us about your problem Cuga
[11:03] Cuga Rajal: Ive been having problems with avi's not rezzing to others when logging in or TPing in
[11:03] Cuga Rajal: Avi looks ok to own person, but orange cloud to others
[11:03] Cuga Rajal: Problem not seen until a couple weeks ago
[11:03] Ada Radius: lotta that going around
[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you update your viewer 2 weeks ago?
[11:03] Cuga Rajal: KNown issue, should I roill back?
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, has anything changed in the software you are running or its configuration?
[11:04] Cuga Rajal: yep I updated to the latest FS, is it due to that?
[11:04] Cuga Rajal: I keep my distro within 2 weeks of bleeding edge
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: it should work
[11:04] Cuga Rajal: git clone
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: just does crash editing/rezing some mesh
[11:04] Cuga Rajal: Last update I made was about a week ago, still same problem
[11:05] Cuga Rajal: Fixed since then?
[11:05] Cuga Rajal: If the orange cloud person changes their skin, that fixes it
[11:05] Ubit Umarov: no changes on that.. and don't see that issue
[11:05] Ada Radius: ah. need to reupload their skin textures
[11:05] Ubit Umarov: on master code
[11:06] Cuga Rajal: It happens to evenryone no matter what skin they are wearing
[11:06] Cuga Rajal: I can reproduce it with an alt
[11:06] Ada Radius: still, the skin textures are not getting to the other viewers
[11:06] Cuga Rajal: On login, its a bolb. Change skin, can see it again
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Would it be worth clearing the region cache?
[11:06] Cuga Rajal: Tried that
[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sounds like the viewer does not get a bake update event
[11:07] Cuga Rajal: Same issue for visitors with no problems on other sime or grids
[11:07] Ada Radius: or, there's a corrupted hair file - that's where the cloud is stored AFAIK
[11:07] Cuga Rajal: Problem didnt exist a month ago
[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: unless you change skin where it is forced to update the bake
[11:08] Cuga Rajal: Im thinikig it might be a caching issue, something weird between client and server
[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the wearable for prim hair you mean?
[11:08] Cuga Rajal: Only change on my end is the new FS
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Clearing viewer cache also hasn't helped?
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: happens with fs 6.3.9 or 6.0.x or any ?
[11:08] Cuga Rajal: I will downgrade FS and see if that fixes it
[11:08] Ada Radius: "something weird between client and server" I have asked about that too
[11:08] Cuga Rajal: No, clearing viewer cache did not fix issue
[11:08] Cuga Rajal: My friend Hallix, different avi, same exact symptom
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: well try coment out the getasset cap again
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Downgrading FS would be the next thing to try.
[11:09] Cuga Rajal: She can see herself but I am an orange blob
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: but that is working on here
[11:09] Cuga Rajal: I can see me but she is an orange blobb
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: ok..
[11:09] Cuga Rajal: When one of use switches skins, the other sees us again
[11:09] Cuga Rajal: Same issue no matter what avi
[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: who picked the color orange?
[11:09] Cuga Rajal: I suspect viewer
[11:10] Cuga Rajal: Then.. If I log out, and log back in, I'm an orange blob again
[11:10] Cuga Rajal: after being visibler previously
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: fs 6.0.x may have issues with the cap i did activate some weeks ago by default
[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: could be a corrupt outfit also
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: but thats on animations.. sounds.. etc
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: not textures
[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does it happen if you wear another outfit , log out abd back in again?
[11:11] Cuga Rajal: If I cnage attachments, no change, only when changing skin or body alpha it fixes
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, it doesn't explain how the problem reoccurs on a relog after it was fixed.
[11:12] Cuga Rajal: Logging out and in again breaks it
[11:12] Cuga Rajal: if Im visible, then relog, Im a blob again *to others*
[11:12] Cuga Rajal: Not to me
[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if there is a corruption with the outfit, the state is not correctly updated on logout, so he gets the last corrupt version from the server
[11:12] Ada Radius: ty Gavin
[11:13] Cuga Rajal: If I check the preference "show avis not fully loaded" then Im visible
[11:13] Cuga Rajal: and I can see a componebnt missing]
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: err lost one bit a info.. that is all avatars or just one?
[11:13] Cuga Rajal: All avatars
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: yeack
[11:13] Ada Radius: how many accounts tested?
[11:13] Cuga Rajal: even visitors who have no issuers on other grids
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: no idea
[11:13] Ada Radius: and from how many computers/connections?
[11:13] Cuga Rajal: tested 3 home grid accounts
[11:14] Cuga Rajal: 2 from me (an alt) and another account on grid from elsewhere
[11:14] Cuga Rajal: all diff avis, all used before no rez issues
[11:15] Ada Radius: it needs to be tested with default skins, shapes, especially hair layer, all freshly created
[11:15] Cuga Rajal: So I was going to start rolling back FS version, server version
[11:15] Cuga Rajal: But others will be using latest FS, so really needs to work with that
[11:15] Ada Radius: to rule out corrupted files
[11:15] Cuga Rajal: I will start with 0.9.1.1. release and see if that fixes
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: going back may not fully work
[11:16] Cuga Rajal: A visitor had same problem but I havent tested extensively
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: compatibilty is only one direction
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: like the dbs updates
[11:16] Cuga Rajal: Other's bakes are sent over by HG so the problem wouldn't necessaroly show up for them
[11:16] Cuga Rajal: I mean making them blobs
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: bakes are not send by hg
[11:17] Cuga Rajal: But they tell me tha6 I am an oragnge blob
[11:17] Cuga Rajal: to them
[11:17] Ada Radius: still got to rule out corrupted files. you would be amazed at how many people use the same baldie (hair asset)
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: they are local things.. the hg visitor is on the region
[11:17] Cuga Rajal: It is this exact avi here that is not rezzing
[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I know Ada
[11:17] Cuga Rajal: and two others
[11:17] Cuga Rajal: All were fine a month ago, no avi changes
[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I had that issue in SL, and it drove me nuts to get a working one
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: any packet loss or so?
[11:18] Ada Radius: I finally learned to make them, back in the day. Now I do, automatically, when this stuff comes up.
[11:18] Cuga Rajal: I and my partner have been using the same avi for months over several server versions, I'm telling you there is no change to the avi
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: try reduced viewers bandwidth
[11:18] Ada Radius: No change to the avi that you know of.
[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I had to learn the same
[11:18] Ada Radius: if a file got corrupted, that's a change
[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: after which I have been bald :-O
[11:19] Ada Radius: haaa
[11:19] Cuga Rajal: You mean it might have become corrupted along the way from some database issue?
[11:19] Ada Radius: yes
[11:19] Cuga Rajal: hmm
[11:19] Cuga Rajal: But both my avi and my partner's avi?
[11:19] Ada Radius: or maybe not, but got to rule it out before chasing after viewer and server issues
[11:19] Ada Radius: could be, yes
[11:19] Cuga Rajal: same symptom at same time?
[11:19] Ada Radius: yup. Check the UUIDs of all of the stuff you're wearing
[11:20] Cuga Rajal: I could go back to the source and re-docopy the original avi components
[11:20] Ada Radius: or, better, make a test character
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: no errors on regions logs?
[11:20] Cuga Rajal: I've been weatching the console, no errors when it happens
[11:21] Cuga Rajal: I have tested this with several different avis and I'm telling you it's not the avi. Every avi has the same symtom
[11:21] Cuga Rajal: Maybe a MONO issue?
[11:21] Ada Radius: anyway, it might not be the avatars - lots is not known about the connection between server and viewer. But rule it out first.
[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but you did not test with another viewer?
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: dan had issues with own compiled 6.19.105
[11:22] Cuga Rajal: My partner and I use the latest FS, I use Mac she uese Windows
[11:22] Cuga Rajal: same symptom
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: but that sounded like a local issue
[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: same code in both
[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: use another viewer
[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?resources/
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: both Mac and Win versions here
[11:23] Cuga Rajal: I will check it on another viewer. But visitors will be using the latest FS so I need to fix on that
[11:23] Cuga Rajal: Butwill test to hel pnarrow down
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if it turns out to be the viewer only FS can fix it
[11:23] Cuga Rajal: Roght, but at least we can document it and open a ticket
[11:24] Cuga Rajal: Its a pretty big bug, makes region unuseable for events
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: well disable the cap getasset and test fs 6.0.x
[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and test my Mac viewer
[11:24] Cuga Rajal: How do I disable the cap getasset
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: yeah and/or that
[11:25] Cuga Rajal: Gavin is Dayturn yours?
[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[11:26] Cuga Rajal: Cool, I've used it, it works well
[11:26] Cuga Rajal: I'll see if its same issue on that
[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thx
[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: please do
[11:26] Cuga Rajal: and I will check 0.9.1.1 release
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: well ok.. lets hope you pinpout the issue bette
[11:26] Cuga Rajal: Unless you have a better suggestion for server versiion
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: ( i repeat the warning.. going back in versions may had dbs issues )
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: ..have..
[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you know if you keep updating from the dev repository very often, you live on the bleeding edge at times
[11:27] Cuga Rajal: I can roll back to earlier DB if tyhats the only way to fix
[11:27] Cuga Rajal: I have one from May
[11:27] Cuga Rajal: But I will try not to roll back
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: ( dbs changes with updates are one direction only )
[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not if you do a restore till before teh update
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: we do recomend full backups before any update :)
[11:28] Cuga Rajal: Rolling back DB backup from a month ago is Nice option when you have your own region and not a lot of users :)
[11:28] Kayaker Magic: Was the last DB change before 0.9.1 Snail release, or after?
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: one was just today :p
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: well on a branch
[11:29] Cuga Rajal: What if I roll back to trunk from aboiut mid-may, would that be safe?
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: you should backup on each upgrade..
[11:30] Cuga Rajal: Good to know
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: keep track of that
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: keep ing..
[11:31] Cuga Rajal: I just keep mysqldump and configs
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: and to keep following last dev code is risky
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: does require good local issues fixing capability
[11:31] Cuga Rajal: Youre probably right, Ive had good luch with it for the last 3 years
[11:32] Cuga Rajal: I can fix locally if I klnow what to do
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: we do make nasty mistakes on ocasions :p
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: by fixing in this case i meant debug etc
[11:32] Cuga Rajal: I could restore db backup from before problem happened
[11:32] Cuga Rajal: If thats needed
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: a safer option it to follow osgrid releases
[11:33] Cuga Rajal: Wanted to see if it was aknoiwn issue
[11:33] Kayaker Magic: Hehe, I see Ubit take things back in the log, and worry one day I will grab a copy at the wrong moment.
[11:33] Cuga Rajal: I'm not on OSGrid
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: those happen after the code been fine for sometime on major osgrid plazas
[11:33] Cuga Rajal: But I do follow opensimulator.org releases, could use those
[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is why I lag him a few weeks on my grid :-)
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: i did not told use that.. i told use simlar commit numbers
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: last release was 0.9.1.1
[11:34] Cuga Rajal: Roight, I see that on opensimulator.org
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: master code is devel code
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: cand be very broken on ocasions
[11:35] Cuga Rajal: In past years the website downloads were pretty far behind and I had a lot better luck using git
[11:35] Kayaker Magic: "devil" code? or "devel" code?
[11:35] Cuga Rajal: But if the releases are now pretty current, that might be a better option for me going forward
[11:35] Cuga Rajal: I was buiilding from trunk out of habvit
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: as i said, osgrid does releases on points that did work fine on main plazas
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: so that is a safer reference
[11:35] Cuga Rajal: Good to okw
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: for those without local code/issues debug capabilities
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: and debug a issue like that can be tricky :(
[11:37] Cuga Rajal: I had the impression OSGrid releases were irrelevent for people not on OSG
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: but also current master is working with no issues at lbsa and other plazas
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: so.. i don't now
[11:37] Cuga Rajal: I never saw the problem until I switched to the new FS
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: osg releases are main code with own ini files and a search module
[11:38] Cuga Rajal: I will test with diff viewers andf server versions and let you know
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: ok
[11:38] Cuga Rajal: it's a pretty serious bug, I can't have events while unresolved
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: onl issue i know there is on 6.3.9 ? is a crash :p
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: editing/rezzing some mesh
[11:39] Cuga Rajal: Haven't had that
[11:39] Kayaker Magic: The FS 6.3.9 crashes when you rez a mesh object.
[11:39] Cuga Rajal: Oh, small bug.. Person added to a role that can change audio stream, can;t change stream
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: well it is fixed by them
[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and edit another at the same time
[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is not very normal
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: but wil only show up one the next release that will be eep also
[11:39] Cuga Rajal: I'll test that crash too
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: so another can of worms
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: dayturn has that fixed also
[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is only released for the Win version
[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the macOS have a few more rounds to go before I release a new version
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: well ok.. Andrew that is new on opensim ?
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: meow?
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: well on code side, if remember there where only changes on the branch uglysky
[11:43] Kayaker Magic: OK, you tell us wht is new Ubit. What was this DB change you made recently?
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: that was on uglysky
[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you have to make a cat-apult seat for Andrew
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: to store the new data needed
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: i still need to make the pgsql one
[11:43] Cuga Rajal: I get occasional console warnings that asset descriptions were getting truncated.. The asset table desc field is 64 chars, should I change to 128?
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: thats viewer limited
[11:44] Cuga Rajal: aah ok
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: happens with hg things
[11:44] Cuga Rajal: Wonder why the source is over 64 then
[11:44] Cuga Rajal: ahh ok
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: yeah hg code forgot those limits
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: but kinda works :)
[11:45] Cuga Rajal: As long as it doesnt cause anything to get corrupted
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: on worse case is on groups v2
[11:45] Cuga Rajal: or not rez
[11:46] Cuga Rajal: I use groiups v2 (gulp)
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: on table as something set as index, that is huge
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: viewers have it at 64 char to be in compliance with SL rules
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: and blows up if you set mysql or maria to use 4 bytes utf8
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: at least most versions.. not sure about last ones
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: hg took some liberties with some fields it should had not
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: like turning what should be just a uuid, into a large string with more than a uuid
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: but details..
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: again, it kinda works :p
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: well on uglysky
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: err no idea lol
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: made more changes.. kinda works
[11:49] Cuga Rajal: Are there any database tunings I should be aware of, besides max_allowed_packet?
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: does svae and load things to dbs except pg and oars
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: and viewers do show.. things
[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: things?
[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: like the sky is falling?
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: as i said last meeting, all internal opensim is changed to the next extended dataset of enviroment
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: lightshare lludp is gone..
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: current viewers get a subset of that
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: etc
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: when i is deployed several viewers will stop to update the enviroment when someone else does change it, including lightshare changes
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: with Apple's latest announcement it will be interesting to see if we even have a mac viewer
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: some only did change under lightshare lludp.. not when we used the viewer
[11:52] Cuga Rajal: If things get bad enough with Apple I'll switch to Ubuntu
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: so with that lludp gone, and changed been made as windlight ones, those viewers do not update
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: region ubittestdt is running that
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Linux versions of the viewers are not particularly up to pseed either
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: speed*
[11:54] Kayaker Magic: For mysql optimization, I like innodb_flush_log_at_trx_commit = 2
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: what has Media Access Code has to do with this?
[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: has to do with?
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: nm :p
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: any of you do use windlight?
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: or lightshare?
[11:56] Kayaker Magic: not me
[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: everyone use windlight
[11:56] Ada Radius: not in a few years
[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is lightshare that is the odd man out
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: lightshare should had been changed ages ago
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: now all changed at same time :)
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: just back then we had more viewer devs..
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: whatever
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: think aurora did kill it
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: im using a message form aurora to wl viewers
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: so some like fs and dayturn will keep changing the env
[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I had two regions running aurora at some point in time, but they were lacking in functionality
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: wel whitecore was the last project based on aurora
[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: don't look to it in sometime
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: well the viewers that had that will see changes on env
[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh, so you say I cannot remove the lightshare code from the viewer?m :-)
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: last singu as it, but it tells the region it is a eep viewer
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: so all broken
[12:01] Cuga Rajal: Hey I'm going to head out.. Thanks for your feedback on my issue
[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Have fun Cuga
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: yw, Cuga.
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Let us know how you make out with your tests.
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: well to suport old regions, including current master you need lightshare
[12:02] Cuga Rajal: I will. Hopfully have something to report to narrow it down
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: the lludp part
[12:02] Ada Radius: tc Cuga
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Cuga.
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: whne you decide to do eep
[12:02] Cuga Rajal: Pretty generic setup so I doubt Im the only one with the issue
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: then,, dunno
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: wow. This hour went by fast. It is the top of the hour already.
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: you may decide that eep viewer will have reduced suport for older regions
[12:03] Ada Radius: I must go too, thanks everyone!
[12:03] George Equus: Interesting discussion :)
[12:03] George Equus: I am off as well. Thanks. Bye
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: thin fs will not have lightshare udp
[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bye
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: and UI to change old versions enviroment
[12:03] Kayaker Magic: EOM: End Of Meeting.
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, by Ada and George.
[12:03] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: bye everyone
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: only the new UI, disabled
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Yup. Looks like that will do it for this week.
[12:04] Kayaker Magic: I'm off as well! (Off my rocker).
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: err since when is public who decide the end of a meeting??
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: When all of them start leaving. :)
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: gezz thats disrespectul
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: fine.. next time they will be alone there
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: here
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. That does it for this week. See you all again next week.
[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cheers Andrew