Chat log from the meeting on 2020-05-05

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[11:10] Arielle Popstar: necessary evil
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: here is the meetting boss
[11:10] Ada Radius: This one works with most of the sliders.
[11:10] Gavin.Hird technically all avatars are mesh anyway
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:10] Ada Radius: Hi Andrew
[11:10] Gavin.Hird Hi Andrew
[11:10] Arielle Popstar: Hi Andrew
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: cat finally looked to irc :)
[11:11] Kayaker Magic: Ada: Does the new Ruth head work with the voice mouth morphing trick?
[11:11] Selby.Evans Hi Andrew
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm a tad late as I needed to put away the delivery of bird food that just arrived.
[11:11] Kayaker Magic: We were hypothesizing your cat was the delay
[11:11] Gavin.Hird bird and cat
[11:11] Arielle Popstar: if they had made a better system avatar to begin with, it wouldnt be necessary for all the ones we getting as add on
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: you feed the cat with brd food??
[11:11] Ada Radius: I haven't built a new Ruth head yet - maybe someone else has, or made a mesh out of the Avastar head.
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Not this time.
[11:11] Gavin.Hird I thouhgt birds were food for cats?
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:11] Ada Radius: The Roth head, no - I'd like to include it - is there a script available?
[11:12] Arielle Popstar: Hyancinth has i believe
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: We have several bird feeders in the backyard.
[11:12] Arielle Popstar: and sean heavy has a new one in s/l he intends to bring here'
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: well andrew we are having news about roth ruth
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, I noticed the mention of them.
[11:12] Ada Radius: OK I'll ask her
[11:12] Arielle Popstar: havnbt seen or heard anything on athena
[11:13] Ada Radius: athena body? Someone told me that was a copybot, but I didn't look at it.
[11:13] Kayaker Magic: LOL, put your dukes up!
[11:13] Arielle Popstar: meh if it was then wouldnt the creator have ddmca'd it?
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: hmm birdfeeders in backyard sounds a good idea to feed the cats
[11:14] Arielle Popstar: all the scripts, huds and alpha cuts i believe are opensim made
[11:14] Ada Radius: It's rumors. If someone asks me to check out a mesh and compare to theirs to help them with dmca, then I do
[11:15] Gavin.Hird wasn't athena copied from DAZ studio with only minor mods to the UV to make it look "authentic"?
[11:15] Ada Radius: dunno
[11:16] Arielle Popstar: some say it is the maitreya but that creator was invited to look at it by digiworldz and though she sais it looked like the s/l lara she didnt want to dmca it even hough terry practicallt begged her to
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: To avoid any controversy, when I needed an Athena body for a project, I used Ruth (open source!) and moded it to work with my Athena project.
[11:17] Arielle Popstar: hopes someone edits that for spelling :)
[11:17] Gavin.Hird probably because that one was a copy too of something
[11:17] Ada Radius: I'm still wearing an avatar I designed in 2010, so I'm not tuned in to the marketplace, lol. I joined the RuthAndRoth team because 1 a teaching project, and 2 make free stuff for OS to help cut down on theft.
[11:18] Ada Radius: but I've spent most of my time in the last few months banging my head on the viewer > Character folder xml files, trying to figure out how to replicate them in Blender.
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: avatar lad etc?
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, I don't correct typos. I don't know what word you meant by "maitreya".
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: those are fun :)
[11:18] Arielle Popstar: didnt they do that in that blender add on in s/l?
[11:19] Arielle Popstar: company name of a mesh body in s/l
[11:19] Ada Radius: ya. avatar_skeleton.xml - I made an armature from that in Blender. It's riddled with errors itself.
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: well one nice project would be to replace the system avatar
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: improving it
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: the files are there also
[11:19] Arielle Popstar: how easy would that be to do?
[11:20] Ada Radius: Avastar is a pretty good plugin, and I use it. But it has a lot of extra bones that are only for animators.
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: guess not that easy
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: but possible
[11:20] Gavin.Hird relatively easy
[11:20] Arielle Popstar: why has it never been done?
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: bc ll likes the $L of meshes
[11:20] Ada Radius: What Ubit said. I have a spreadsheet at the RuthAndRoth github with the avatar_skeleton.xml mismatches highlighted.
[11:20] Arielle Popstar: i been hearing for years it was too difficult
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: and the history path avatar meshes had
[11:21] Gavin.Hird the difficult part was the Bento rig
[11:21] Arielle Popstar: that wasnt the case here though
[11:21] Arielle Popstar: L$
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: they evolved from just simple attachments that could have avatar bones
[11:21] Gavin.Hird so mthe needed to create / license a new avtar mesh and rig it to the bento rig + make morph targets
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: now it is a nice SL business.. they will not mess that
[11:22] Ada Radius: ya
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: BOM was a exception, bc they needed it
[11:22] Gavin.Hird they could have licensed one of the DAZ characters which are available at a cost an has about 25k quads
[11:22] Kayaker Magic: Changing the system avatar, is that a Viewer change? Or a server change? Or does it take both?
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: it is a viewer change
[11:22] Ada Radius: viewer change
[11:22] Gavin.Hird not changing, but adding a avatar 2
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: replace a ton of files with higher rez
[11:22] Ada Radius: Not so much higher rez as better topography
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: yeap better add and have it as a option
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I bought primstar but I didn't buy Avastar. I was considering one of several ways of making an avatar body if I wanted to go that route. Makehuman, DAZ Studio, modify Ruth or Roth, or the other (now dead) tool from Bastion(?) Lab thing.
[11:23] Gavin.Hird the hardest part would be to make the old avatar UV to a much higer resolution mesh, but it could be done with a geo-graft
[11:23] Kayaker Magic: WOW, so if you had that mythical magical viewer change, all the sytem avatars you saw would be upgraded?
[11:23] Ada Radius: the system avatar has horrendous topography, it wasn't even any good in 2005
[11:23] Gavin.Hird you would have both old and new avatars
[11:23] Arielle Popstar: lumpy boobs
[11:24] Ada Radius: you would get howls from people who want to use their old skins. I spent days UV mapping Shin Ingen's mesh to do the backwards legacy.
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: yeah could be add.. and a option somewhere
[11:24] Gavin.Hird but in reality most would have upgraded theirs in a short time
[11:24] Arielle Popstar: its not bad for males but the female system is horrendous
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: it would need to be full compatible with the old one
[11:24] Ada Radius: The male is awful too - same topology as the female only twisted
[11:24] Gavin.Hird the male avatar is very grude around the edges too. Only the face mesh is somewhat OK
[11:25] Gavin.Hird crude*
[11:25] Kayaker Magic: (twisted sister) hehe
[11:25] Ada Radius: ya
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:25] Ada Radius: haa
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: just higher rez and improved topo..
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: male is a morph of the female
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: well and make all those morphs..
[11:25] Gavin.Hird yes
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: guess there are a ton of those
[11:26] Gavin.Hird there are about 120 morp targets on the avatar
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: yeah not a small project
[11:26] Ada Radius: Shin Ingen did the original drafts of Ruth and Roth in ZBrush - excellent topography, except he didn't know enough about UV mapping and rigging. So a couple of us volunteered to do that - starting in 2018. If I were to start over I'd do it differently to conform beter to the SL armature and the UV maps.
[11:26] Gavin.Hird but in many ways they are easier to create than rigging bones for all the avatar twesks
[11:26] Arielle Popstar: cant just upload an existing one ?
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: but that should be the correct path to improve avatars.. not the mesh crap
[11:27] Gavin.Hird why is why most avtars conforming tho the udnerlying system avatar looks horrible
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: no ariellle system avatar is a lot more complex than the mesh craps
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: and powerfull
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: mesh avatars are a total crap comparing
[11:27] Ada Radius: The armature is OK, kind of brilliant the way it fits into the appearance sliders. But Maya based, and using morphs inworld but requiring attachments to use the vertex mapping to use the sliders means it's never going to match very well.
[11:27] Arielle Popstar: you wouldnt know it though to look at it
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: wel a sys one, would need all those morphs
[11:28] Ada Radius: OK
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: and perfect match.. yeack
[11:29] Arielle Popstar: i thought its whole advantage was that it is builtin right into the viewer so no need to transfer it from the server
[11:29] Gavin.Hird if you download a free version of DAZ studio, almost all the character shapes are done by morph targets, and very little by the rigging
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: that is a HUGE advantage
[11:29] Gavin.Hird same with clothes
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: but it has more
[11:29] Ada Radius: So improving the topology of the system avatar mesh, keeping the morph locations might do it
[11:29] Ada Radius: without making it a resource hog
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: well ive no idea of the details :)
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: just the overall thing
[11:30] Gavin.Hird you still have to have the topo for the morphs to look good
[11:30] Arielle Popstar: would it make all the existing content redundent?
[11:30] Ada Radius: That's the booger
[11:30] Arielle Popstar: clothing wise?
[11:30] Ada Radius: depends on how they're rigged
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: cloths are not included
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: system avatar only suports skin tight clothes
[11:30] Kayaker Magic: Cloghing optional!
[11:31] Ada Radius: If the armature didn't change, then probably OK
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: ( ie what BOM does )
[11:31] Gavin.Hird it would be possible to map a BOM UV to a higher topo mesh via a geo-graft
[11:31] Arielle Popstar: can the rigging be made so be compatible with an existing avatar ?
[11:31] Gavin.Hird Bento already is
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: not sure current sys avatar is BENTO
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: is it?
[11:31] Ada Radius: We can put BoM on a non-skin-tight mesh clothing, if the UV mapping matches.
[11:32] Gavin.Hird current system avatar is rigged with Bento for bento viewers
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: yes but the 3d must come from a attached mesh
[11:32] Ada Radius: Rigging mesh attachments depends on the skill of the mesh designer, to make it work with system avatars
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: ( but baked meshs do have simple material to fake 3d )
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: i mean baked textures
[11:33] Ada Radius: I'll be looking at this in the next few weeks - BoM on rigged mesh attachments
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: some of the files on viewer have a materials definition
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: bump map
[11:33] Ada Radius: Ai Austin has been testing it for Roth for me, that feedback influenced the final draft a lot
[11:34] Kayaker Magic: Bum mapped skins on avatars?
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: sys avatars have bump map
[11:34] Ada Radius: we can use normal maps and specular maps on mesh attachments.
[11:35] Ada Radius: I haven't made them yet for Roth, but it's on the list
[11:35] Gavin.Hird yes, but the viewer acutally has support for bump maps too
[11:35] Ada Radius: you mean the normal map?
[11:35] Gavin.Hird they just cannot be applied by a normal user
[11:35] Gavin.Hird I mean bump map
[11:35] Ada Radius: which viewer has that?
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: avatar textures have 5 components
[11:35] Gavin.Hird all
[11:35] Gavin.Hird since forecver
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: on is a bump map
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: one..
[11:35] Ada Radius: on the system avatar? Right
[11:36] Gavin.Hird if you texture a cube and use the build in brick structure, that is a bump map applied to the surface
[11:36] Gavin.Hird sime for siding and a few more
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: well old prims also have those
[11:37] Gavin.Hird yes
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: the old material setting
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: a pre defined set og maps
[11:37] Gavin.Hird so the viewer and renderer supports bump maps
[11:37] Ada Radius: OK, but that slot will only take normal maps if you want to swap in a texture. (the rainbow normal map vs grayscale bump map)
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: its a simple materials model
[11:38] Ada Radius: ya
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: but thats what the sys av has
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: ( and avatar mesh did not.. bahh )
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: not sure if avatar rendering does look to mesh materials
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: does it?
[11:39] Gavin.Hird There is a viewer build out today with improved mesh upload floater
[11:39] Ada Radius: you mean mesh attachments? They can have normal maps, same function as a bump map, and specular maps, then render fine IF the artist makes them well
[11:39] Gavin.Hird RLV will be ready tomorrow
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: not sure how that plays wiht BOM
[11:39] Ada Radius: me neither, what I'll be looking at next
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: you mean Dayturn gavin?
[11:39] Gavin.Hird yes
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: ok
[11:40] Gavin.Hird
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: my guess is that BOM only looks to old bump map.
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: but i can only guess ( and fail ;) )
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: well improved sys avatars is a big project.. viewer side
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: but should be the correct path
[11:42] Gavin.Hird as system clothing don't support normal and spec maps, they can't be applied to BOM textures
[11:42] Gavin.Hird the underlying mesh you project the BOM texture only could potentially have it
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: then.. improve it, like adding materials :)
[11:42] Ada Radius: I'd start with straightening out some basics in the xml file - left to right symmetry, bone head to bone tail matching, figuring out if you want to list left bones then right, or the other way around, rather than doing it randomly.
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: yeah but guess the avatar rendering does not look to the mesh materials
[11:43] Kayaker Magic: Before the hour is up, I have a YEngine question:
[11:43] Kayaker Magic: If you go into a computation bound loop for too long, my observation is that YEngine punishes me by slowing me down more than if I wrote a good script. Is that correct?
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: long events loose cpu
[11:44] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, but it is my region on my CPU so I figured why not.
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: wll run in time slices when possible
[11:44] Kayaker Magic: Then it tan slower than a similar script that chopped the time up into events.
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: currently a time slice is about 60ms
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: well depends on how many scritps are there
[11:45] Kayaker Magic: Just one in the whole region!
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: then is should get a time slice pretty soon
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: it
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: guess gets some ms penalty
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: scripts are not designed for long things
[11:46] Kayaker Magic: If I write the script to compute, exit for a timer, comput, exit for a timer ... it seems to run faster.
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: well on X long events just die :)
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: if they don't, they also lose time
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: with normal OS threading time slicing
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: but short answer.. is yes.. long events will run, with reduced perfomance
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: abotu code changes..
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: well some more work on the low level http
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: then my main machine psu died.. i was left only with my older one with linux.. good for emails and be here
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: i got a new psu, so im back on my main win box..
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: then linu linux box died.. this one, motherboard or cpu
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: i tried to repair it and killed 3 mosfets and a driver :p
[11:50] Kayaker Magic: PSU? Photo Shop Unit?
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Power Supply Unit.
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: so.. ive no linus now to test things
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: linux
[11:50] Arielle Popstar: darn
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: and hopping my main box does not die :)
[11:51] JayR.Cela Haaa Haa / a waste of time usually repairing a Power Supply Unit / good ones are relatively cheap these days
[11:51] JayR.Cela 60 $ bucksor so
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: That's a string of bad luck. Is that three things that have gone wrong? People say things come in threes. ;)
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: well that did mess up my opensim and rl work
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: any cheap thing is expensive for me now :p
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: some one donated some $ to buy a rasp PI
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: i spent it on food :p
[11:52] Arielle Popstar: how much is a new cpu for it?
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: no idea if is cpu or motherboard
[11:52] Gavin.Hird you were hungry
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: those things only work togher ( its the cpu who programs the MB voltages regulator.. no cpu the mb does nto work )
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: You can get a Pi Zero dirt cheap but it might not be that good at running OpenSim.
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: intel sells dummy cpus that do that
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: ( so you burn some $200 instead of $400 )
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: well my attempt to repair made it worse
[11:54] Kayaker Magic: Last question before the hour (for me): Is there a way for a script to read the OpenSim.ini settings? If there was, what would be the security issues? Any sections a script should not be allowed to see?
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: i can get the damaged parts and put it back.. but them will be on the original problem
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: no, no such option.. and no plans to add it
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: it whould be very messy.
[11:55] Arielle Popstar: so set up a fund Me thing
[11:56] Kayaker Magic: Well, if someone were to consider adding it, are there any sections that should be hidden?
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: You could make an http request to an external program that would get you what you want from the OpenSim.ini file. It depends on who would be running the script as to whether it is safe or not.
[11:56] Ada Radius: and a Patreon account. I just set up mine, after much nagging from a few people. Not that they've donated, mind you, lol.
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Another option might be a region module.
[11:56] Arielle Popstar: well a fund me sets a target
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: andrew has a patreon.. not sure he gets much
[11:56] Arielle Popstar: not just a bottomless pit
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: i do have paypal :p
[11:57] Arielle Popstar: yes but in this case, i suggest a Fund me goal
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, you don't want people to access the connection strings that contain the information needed to access the database.
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: but well jsut sharing the current devel state
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: No, I don't get much via Patreon.
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: linux testing will be now more blind
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: most at LBSA when Dan is available :)
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: im getting a pile of dead machines.. gezz
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: went look to a older dual core..
[11:59] Arielle Popstar: how much do you need for another machine?
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, you also don't want people accessing the SMTP section that may contain information needed to access your SMPT server(s).
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, or the VIvox information.
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: the all thing powers up, all voltages there.. but doesn't even tries to read the bios
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: again cpu or chipset dead
[11:59] Arielle Popstar: how much Ubit
[12:00] Kayaker Magic: I don't have a SMPT server, so I wouldn't have thought of that Andrew!
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: any old machine
[12:00] Arielle Popstar: a decent one
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: 64bit.
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: can be a indencent one also :)
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I had a similar thing happen to my Pentium II machine. I didn't know if the MB died or the CPU. I bought another CPU but it wasn't a NIS part so who knows if it was working or not. I wound up completely upgrading my system.
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: bf this i used also a half broken laptop
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: but it died lol
[12:01] JayR.Cela old optiplex's are cheap
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: well electronics do die
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: and that is getting worse
[12:01] Kayaker Magic: Saw a tech tips youtube where they bought a USD$120 computer and spent ~$200 upgrading it to a reasonable gaming computer...
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: with all the high density
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, they do. They also do it at the most inconvenient times.
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: yeah guess i could get a old thing cheap at ebay
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: but as i said, anything cheap is 2 expensive for me :p
[12:02] Arielle Popstar: a friend of mine bought a server machine with oodles of cpu's ram etc for 300 EU's
[12:03] Gavin.Hird do you just need to compile and run the code?
[12:03] Ada Radius: or.. talk to Selby and get a login to TechSoup via New Media Arts Inc. discounts for nonprofits.
[12:03] JayR.Cela Dell's are usually bought by corp's and every 4 years or so they upgrade
[12:03] Gavin.Hird or actually test it in-world too?
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: In a pinch Linux could be run in a VM under Windows.
[12:03] Kayaker Magic: Put your Linux eggs in a Windows basket.
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: never did like those solutions
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: guess one day ill get another old box and recover linux
[12:04] Gavin.Hird you can get a remote account on a machine to work on, but I guess you said your internet is not great, so that might not work so well?
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Perhaps not, but it is an option in case your Linux box dies just when you need it.
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: bill once gave me a shell
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: worked ok
[12:05] Gavin.Hird I can give you that
[12:05] Gavin.Hird on a Lunix system
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: test regions aren't heavy
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: or could not work as test anyway
[12:07] JayR.Cela catch ya all later / bye4now :_)
[12:07] Arielle Popstar: if you set a price and a go fund me thing, i will promote it in mewe and discord
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: What is mewe?
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Bye, JayR. Thanks for coming.
[12:08] Arielle Popstar: i'll ask my friend about wehere he got his. He is in the UK
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: well next code changes, will be still on same area
[12:08] Arielle Popstar: it was super cheap
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: i still didn't changed robust that much
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: and there are a few more things on regions to move to the "Simple handlers"
[12:09] Kayaker Magic: Ubit needs a sign to prop next to him in LBSA: "Will code for food"
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:09] Arielle Popstar: code for hardware
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: We are past the hour mark. Any thing else for todays gathering?
[12:10] Arielle Popstar: i know you balk at the idea of a fund me thing but i eally think it is the best option
[12:11] Arielle Popstar: get you a decent machine
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: can be indecent :)
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: for linux :)
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: well that one was a i7 3770K with 16GB ram
[12:12] Arielle Popstar: well could be but be nice to have something that can do that and more
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: not that indencent
[12:12] Arielle Popstar: stop arguing
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: on something it out performed this i7 8700k
[12:13] Kayaker Magic: Have to be careful how the gofundme is set up, we don't want him taking the money and wasting it on food :)
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Raid Dave Jones garbage room and you could get something that would be mostly more than good enough for free. ;)
[12:13] Arielle Popstar: i know!!
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: well as we speak someone is creating a linux account for me :)
[12:14] Arielle Popstar: for him or cats
[12:14] Kayaker Magic: No that's Andres
[12:14] Kayaker Magic: *Andrew
[12:14] Arielle Popstar: ubithas too i think
[12:14] Ada Radius: I have to get back to RL, thank you everyone! Morphs. OK. Morphs.
[12:14] Arielle Popstar: unless they died of starvation already
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: There are several cat owners in the core dev team.
[12:14] Kayaker Magic: BYE ADA!
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Ada. Thanks for coming.
[12:15] Arielle Popstar: nice that she came by
[12:15] Kayaker Magic: she did not give us 15 seconds of warning before poofing!
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: We should ask Ubit to program in a delay before people can poof. :)
[12:16] Kayaker Magic: Or have Gavin put it in the viewer
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[12:17] Arielle Popstar: 15 seconds is the standard
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: If there is nothing more for today I will say that will be it for today.
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you for coming. See you again next week.

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