Chat log from the meeting on 2020-03-31

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[11:03] Ubit Umarov: hi andrew
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Ubit. Hello, Gavin.
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: guess this will be a even smaller meeting
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Perhaps an email to the devel and user mailing lists might help.
[11:04] Gavin.Hird Hi Andrew
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: anyone sees selby or kayaker?
[11:08] Gavin.Hird nope
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I've emailed os dev but I'm not on the user list.
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: hi arielle
[11:09] Arielle Popstar: hi
[11:09] Gavin.Hird Hi Popstar! Long time no see
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Arielle.
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: well seen on the "media" that gcg is gone
[11:09] Arielle Popstar: Hi Andrew
[11:10] Arielle Popstar: Hi Gavin
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I was going to mention that once more people have arrived.
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: seems they gave all things to another grid
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: ok
[11:10] Arielle Popstar: not sure if thats actually the case or gevolution is simply proxy
[11:10] Arielle Popstar: sounded like roddy has the virus
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: don't know the details
[11:11] Gavin.Hird I had some requests for redelivery of itmes purchased from KM to GCG to other grids
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: just seem some text here and there
[11:11] Licu.Rau hello
[11:11] Arielle Popstar: Hi Kay and Licu
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, good. More people are arriving.
[11:11] Kayaker Magic: Hey! I've been waiting at Dev Outreach
[11:11] Gavin.Hird Hi Kayaker and Licu
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: good you guessed the meeting location :)
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Welcome, Kayaker, and Licu.
[11:11] Arielle Popstar: oh is that accessable again?
[11:12] Licu.Rau thanks
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: well i did add it to the site.. but just a few minutes ago
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: yes dev is down and Bill is afk
[11:12] Licu.Rau we were in dev
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Hope that Bill isn't also down.
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: yeah me 2
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Dev Outreach is up? I just saw a note in IRC that it was down.
[11:13] Arielle Popstar: he should be ok now after his hert stuff
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: still recovering from the op
[11:13] Arielle Popstar: heart
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: yeah but that is a long recovery
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:13] Arielle Popstar: didnt you have that too Gavin?
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Good to know he is on the mend.
[11:14] Gavin.Hird I did Arielle, but I think his might have been more extensice
[11:14] Arielle Popstar: nod
[11:14] Gavin.Hird they only stopped my heart for 20 minutes
[11:14] Licu.Rau may I ask if there are news about voice? we have educational sims in Craft and in edMondo all the grid is educational, and we are getting problems with voice
[11:14] Arielle Popstar: remember you being back around fairly quickly
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: for now vivox seems working
[11:14] Gavin.Hird I was in the hospital 8 days
[11:14] Licu.Rau that is bad when you are doing lessons in voice
[11:15] Arielle Popstar: cant use skype?
[11:15] Licu.Rau oh Gavin, the virus or something else?
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Licu, which version of OS is the grid using?
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: on my try to talk with vivox they still did point me to the form to request a free account for opensim
[11:15] Licu.Rau in Craft
[11:15] Licu.Rau in edMondo one of more than one year ago
[11:15] Licu.Rau 0.9.1
[11:15] Gavin.Hird no, open chest coronal graft, as they call it.
[11:16] Gavin.Hird 3 years ago
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. A recent release. Ubit had made some changes recently related to Vivox.
[11:16] Licu.Rau all ok now gavin?
[11:16] Arielle Popstar: yes, thought it was about that
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: scenegate ppl may donate a updated region side module
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: im waiting for is for almost 2 years now :)
[11:16] Arielle Popstar: i had a stent so in and out in a day
[11:16] Gavin.Hird yeah, except I have very slow pulse parts of the day (nights mostly)
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: updated mumble module i mean
[11:16] Gavin.Hird lowest we have measured was pulse of 26 :_))
[11:17] Arielle Popstar: nothing like a bit of opensim to speed it up :)
[11:17] Arielle Popstar: oh wow
[11:17] Licu.Rau :)
[11:18] Licu.Rau about skype, it is not good when you have a teacher with 20 young students to tell them to open the viewer and skype and organising all of them, voice must be inworld
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: anyone sees selby online?
[11:18] Licu.Rau I just installed a freeswitch server
[11:18] Licu.Rau going to test it later
[11:18] Arielle Popstar: i dont see him on
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: i have no idea of freeswith current state
[11:18] Gavin.Hird so because of that I have problems concentrating for very long, wich is why viewer development is slow at time
[11:19] Licu.Rau going to test it
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I tried using Freeswitch ages ago. It was always a pain to get it configured and working properly.
[11:19] Licu.Rau yes about 10 years ago
[11:19] Arielle Popstar: i thought someone mentioned they had it working within the past week
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: or if current vivox versions viewers use like it
[11:19] Arielle Popstar: vivox i mean
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: vivox is working here fine
[11:20] Licu.Rau it worked, the only thing is that there was not 'spacial sound', you heard the same volume in all the region
[11:20] Gavin.Hird yep, works here
[11:20] Arielle Popstar: ahh
[11:20] Licu.Rau but is would mot be bad in an educational region
[11:20] Licu.Rau vivox works but not continuously
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: only question is if they still give free accounts for opensim and for how long
[11:20] Licu.Rau often you can't hear it well
[11:21] Gavin.Hird exactly Ubit
[11:21] Licu.Rau they still offer free accounts and also a developer account with sdk tools
[11:21] Arielle Popstar: well never cared for voice myself as you cant keep a log of it and can always read text but problems hearing people
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: they refuse me access to the dev portal
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: telling also there that portal has nothing usefull for opensim
[11:22] Gavin.Hird are not the sdk tools for game dev only, and not particularly relevant to opensim any more?
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: yeha their current versions are very diferent
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: they also did refuse access to some viewer devs even to update for sl
[11:24] Licu.Rau may I ask if you considered these things for future developing? one is old and about slvoice, the other is a recent server based on openAL:
[11:24] Licu.Rau
[11:24] Arielle Popstar: can you get the relevant info from the sl viewer?
[11:24] Gavin.Hird I think the SL plan is to replace it with something else
[11:24] Licu.Rau
[11:24] Kayaker Magic: Live mic!
[11:24] Arielle Popstar: ^^
[11:25] Licu.Rau sorry, the central button of the mpuse is for pasting in linux but also open mic in opensim
[11:25] Gavin.Hird last commit to that repository was in 2010, so not relevant any more much
[11:25] Gavin.Hird whispers: the SL voice now used by upddated viewers is a black box provided by LL
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: well on opensim code, not much commits
[11:26] Arielle Popstar: use the s/l viewer then
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: i have several broken/half done changes on my disk
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: last was to fix hide of hidden groups on profiles
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: if we had that before, i may had lost it on some code changes a few weeks ago
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: well it works again
[11:27] Gavin.Hird you also sneaked some throttling into that? :-)
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: no that other file change was on a no op thing
[11:28] Arielle Popstar: not snuck as it is noticable
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: just changing to a value that makes more sense if that is reenabled
[11:28] Gavin.Hird see, I told you ;-)
[11:29] Arielle Popstar: just shows Opensim in a bad light in my opinion
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: so andrew.. have some info about gcg ?
[11:29] Arielle Popstar: body parts everywhere
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: you should see sl also
[11:29] Arielle Popstar: its not quite as bad
[11:30] Arielle Popstar: and they are working on fixing it
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: yesterday looked i was going the have my avatar heaten by huge teeth
[11:30] Arielle Popstar: whereas here it is purposesly slowed
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: sl uses CDN
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: we can't
[11:30] Arielle Popstar: but why are we throtteling?
[11:30] Arielle Popstar: is it breaking the database?
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Nothing much more to say about the GCG that was is on the web page. It had been close to working and being back online. Roddie says there were corrupted databases. My understanding is that the databases were fine.
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: because we need, and im not going to repeat that all over
[11:31] Arielle Popstar: you have never stated the reason for it
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: err andrew
[11:31] Arielle Popstar: in spite of me asking for the reasons
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: rod told gcg is now gone
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: um... that was is on the web page -> that wasn't already on the web page.
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: several things dbs etc given to another grid
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: My fingers weren't typing properly just now.
[11:32] Ubit Umarov:
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: seen at discord ppl crying about IP violations
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: well depends on how it was done and respective TOS
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: grids have rights on content uploaded to them
[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: It is too bad that he decided to close it after all. What is worse for OPen Sim is that it is yet another grid that asked for money to help keep it going only to still wind up closing.
[11:34] Arielle Popstar: they are still on the gcg servers
[11:34] Gavin.Hird as the grid existed out of Canada, Canadion law applies to the grid
[11:34] Gavin.Hird Canadian*
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: depends on TOS
[11:34] Gavin.Hird no
[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: It was a Canadian grid but the servers were in the US.
[11:34] Arielle Popstar: i think the servers were physically on usa soil
[11:34] Gavin.Hird the law overrides the TOD
[11:34] Gavin.Hird TOS
[11:35] Gavin.Hird as it also does in the EU
[11:35] Licu.Rau correct, laws are over tos
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: but transfer of contents to other entinty that respects idential TOS; guess its legal
[11:35] Arielle Popstar: lesson is to stay off of grids that withold one's content
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: just see SL TOS
[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:35] Arielle Popstar: content wasnt transferred
[11:35] Gavin.Hird SL TOS would be found null and void in any EU courts
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: "All GCG Servers are now shutdown and all databases transferred to this grid.."
[11:36] Arielle Popstar: see this post and note:
[11:36] Arielle Popstar: GeVolution World | Support Department
10:57 AM (7 minutes ago)
to me

hello, unfortunatly we do not hold your files on our servers, they are still on GCG servers, as you think we have them we shall not be sending any out until were covered legally, were only helping out Roddie and the GCG members, please contact Roddie for your files
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: that kinda sounds like full transfer :)
[11:36] Gavin.Hird the court would use the minimum requirements of the law instead
[11:36] Arielle Popstar: :)
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: "GCG no longer has the database or oars now that the new hosting company maintains it in their servers.
So you will need to contact"
[11:36] Arielle Popstar: anyway has nothing to do with opensim dev
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: but just bad to all opensim
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: It does. The web page talks about region owners being able to get an OAR file and that itmight be possible to get IARs. You can't do either without a full transfer of data.
[11:37] Arielle Popstar: so is throtteling :)
[11:38] Gavin.Hird I am observing uneccessary throttling on region loading, as in when crossing a region on same grid
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: gezz my test region is reducing its memory usage on a odd way
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: was 200MB now its 100MB
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Gevolution is another grid that talks of being run using a fork of OpenSim.
[11:38] Gavin.Hird most of the stuff comes from simulator cache, so no need to hold it back
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: ok did login there and back at 200MB :)
[11:40] Gavin.Hird I suppose most grids run some kind of fork of opensim?
[11:40] Arielle Popstar: hopefully as Master is usually a worst case scenerio :)
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: we could say my test region is on a fork also :p
[11:41] Gavin.Hird it is not that bad Arielle. Remember most of the time master is WIP, so there are no guarantees
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: btw the next chages i may commit mb not be nice for raspPI again gavin.Hird
[11:41] Gavin.Hird stick to releases if you can't take the heat :-)
[11:41] Arielle Popstar: no but there are other forks that are quite a bit faster
[11:42] Gavin.Hird what are you destroying now Ubit?
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: httpserver send code
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: updating it to async/wait code style
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: well kinda
[11:42] Arielle Popstar: the releases are usually the worst
[11:43] Gavin.Hird why would that be bad for the PI?
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: bc im assuming strem now does handle tcp send buffers size
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: and all that
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: till now we send all in chunck of 8k
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: that will never use full avaiable send bandwith
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: of fat networks
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: on..
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: so im filling the network stream with a lot more data
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: split it into real buffers should be .net/mono job
[11:45] Gavin.Hird more than streaming 4k video?
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: but.. on mono 3 etc.. if we didi enq more than 8K mono did lose data
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: so .. lets see
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: we do need to send to the os, more than 8k, on fat nets
[11:46] Gavin.Hird pi is running 6.x
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: wel if we have more than 8k to send, of course :)
[11:48] Arielle Popstar: so what was the deal with that comment last week on banning alchemy and singularity viewers from Osgrid?
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: i may also move bandwitdh throttle to the httpserver
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: acording to what a alch dev told, we will need to do that
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: and singu also
[11:49] Arielle Popstar: why singu too?
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: because it is the same team now
[11:49] Arielle Popstar: is it?
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: yes
[11:49] Gavin.Hird it is
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: well not public .. but well :)
[11:50] Arielle Popstar: i thought Cinder was the lead dev for alchemy
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: she is not
[11:50] Gavin.Hird it is that Rye Mutt
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: see profile of danng forgot the name here
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: his name here
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: drake ark something
[11:50] Gavin.Hird drake = Rye Mutt
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: yeap
[11:51] Arielle Popstar: so is that dev upset with Opensim that he made that threat?
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Will only recent versions of those viewers be banned from osgrid?
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: he does not care about opensim
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: well thats something for future
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: lets see what he actually does
[11:52] Arielle Popstar: i am a little surprised that sing devs would fall in line with a region crashing tool
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: well he said that only relative to alch
[11:52] Gavin.Hird the old versions might autoban themselves as in not working properly any more
[11:52] Arielle Popstar: or they have the same BoM code as FS did which was supposedly crashing regions?
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: IIRC, Firestorm used to be a region crashing viewer in the GCG.
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: but told singu will not work if we don't add the viewer benifits
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: that sl is runshing to add anf forcing all viewers to have
[11:53] Gavin.Hird Older Simgu and Alch does not even run on more recent versions of macOS for example
[11:53] Arielle Popstar: anf?
[11:53] Gavin.Hird Singu*
[11:53] Arielle Popstar: whats anf
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: its and mistyped
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: anf -> and
[11:54] Arielle Popstar: are you meaning the premium thing?
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: premium plus etc
[11:54] Gavin.Hird it is not only that Arielle
[11:54] Arielle Popstar: thats irrelevant
[11:54] Gavin.Hird EEP is a mjaor hurdle too
[11:54] Kayaker Magic: Before the hour is up, I have an issue with IMs
[11:54] Arielle Popstar: Oz stated that viewers that dont have it will still be able to log into s/l
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: but it is all costs and rights a user has, per account type
[11:55] Gavin.Hird LL issued a 6.4 release candiate of EEP a few days ago
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: no oz told that viewers that will not have it will be banned from sl
[11:55] Gavin.Hird Oz have asked devs to upgrade ASAP
[11:55] Kayaker Magic: When I send an IM to someone not logged in, I get the message "Unable to send instant message. User is not logged in." instead of saving it.
[11:55] Arielle Popstar: as Beq
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: ( the bebifits thing )
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: benifits..
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: well the b.. thing :p
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, sounds like a problem with the offline.php support file.
[11:56] Kayaker Magic: In the console I see "[HG IM SERVICE]: User is not present." even though this is not an HG IM
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Or the lack of such a file.
[11:56] Arielle Popstar: are you meaning messages sent to other grids friends/?
[11:56] Kayaker Magic: That is on my regions with a recent Yeti, if I go to Wright Plaza the IM works.
[11:56] Arielle Popstar: oh
[11:56] Kayaker Magic: NO NO! LOCAL IMS!
[11:56] Licu.Rau sorry, I must go
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Are you IMing someone who has an account in the grid or is that IM that needs to go out via HG?
[11:56] Kayaker Magic: They act as if I am trying to HGIM but I am not!
[11:56] Arielle Popstar: tc Licu, thx for coming
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: cya licu.Rau
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: np, Liru.
[11:56] Gavin.Hird cheers Licu
[11:56] Licu.Rau bye everyone
[11:56] Kayaker Magic: On the same grid
[11:57] Kayaker Magic: everything on one grid
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Thanks for dropping in. See you again another time.
[11:57] Kayaker Magic: Both users
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: kay a msg from a HG code section does not mean it is a hg thing
[11:57] Kayaker Magic: Here on OSGrid
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: I would check if the offline.php file is present and whether it is configured properly.
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: the HG code does override non hg code
[11:57] Kayaker Magic: Except when I get that HG message, the IM fails.
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: so fail may have nothing to do with hg
[11:58] Kayaker Magic: OK, bit why would it fail on my region here in OSG but work on other regions?
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: just is is on HG code
[11:59] Arielle Popstar: be nice to see some dev work on messaging, groups and HG stuff instead of all this work on throtteling
[11:59] Kayaker Magic: It is working here in Hurliman, failing in Test Bed 3x3 with a brand new Yeti build this morning
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: no idea what you say it is failing
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: That sounds like a configuration error in OpenSim.ini
[11:59] Gavin.Hird are there any ports you have not opened on your region Kayaker?
[12:00] Kayaker Magic: ?I assigned ports through my router for whole ranges I use for OpenSim.
[12:01] Gavin.Hird dns issues?
[12:01] Kayaker Magic: I'm on a dynamic dns, which is working for EVERYTHING except IMs these days.
[12:01] Gavin.Hird ok
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, check you settings under [Messaging] in OpenSim.ini
[12:02] Arielle Popstar: did see a bunch of problems yesterday with teleportin and stuff which cleared later on. Suspecting osgrid internet issues
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: google dns service does not like dyndns
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: What value are you using for OfflineMessageModule?
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: and may use it
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: many
[12:02] Gavin.Hird internet was generally wonky yesterday
[12:02] Kayaker Magic: I have all the defaults in [Messaging], no changes that I used.
[12:03] Kayaker Magic: ;# {OfflineMessageModule} {} {Module to use for offline message storage} {OfflineMessageModule "Offline Message Module V2" *}
 ;; Module to handle offline messaging. The core module requires an external
 ;; web service to do this. See OpenSim wiki.
 ; OfflineMessageModule = OfflineMessageModule
 ;; Or, alternatively, use this one, which works for both standalones and grids
 ; OfflineMessageModule = "Offline Message Module V2"
[12:03] Arielle Popstar: yes Gavin was wondering as sl people were mentioning troubles too
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: You haven't set a module to use. Both are commented out which is supposed to default to using the V2 module.
[12:03] Arielle Popstar: but messaging can be wonky all the time
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Is that what is required here in osgrid?
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: no osgrid is not using groups v2
[12:04] Gavin.Hird you have to check the OSG sample ini files
[12:04] Arielle Popstar: osgrid release is supposed to have the proper config set
[12:04] Kayaker Magic: Ah, I see that is over-written by an OSG section:
[12:04] Kayaker Magic: OfflineMessageModule = OfflineMessageModule
OfflineMessageURL =
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: That would be the problem then. You need to check your OpenSim.ini aginst the version supplied by osgrid.
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: we should use the osg ini files here
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker,
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: wel or have some pain chaning ours :)
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: a lot of pain really
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: lol
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, that file shows that osgrid is not using the V2 offline messaging module.
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: i told that above..
[12:06] Kayaker Magic: I should switch to V2?
[12:06] Arielle Popstar: V2 was a diva thing i think
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: You are already using V2 according to the OpenSim.ini file comments. You need to use the V1 version.
[12:07] Gavin.Hird OSG is NOT standard Opensim in every aspect
[12:07] Arielle Popstar: no he is using OfflineMessageURL =
[12:07] Kayaker Magic: OK, I'll compare my ini with the OGRid ones again....
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: well it is standart opensim.. just like all, own set of options
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, that is a different setting. He still needs to set the proper OfflineMessageModule setting.
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: region side only has one module not opensim
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: brb
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back.
[12:10] Arielle Popstar: weba
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: ty
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm wondering if Kayaker is checking the settings in his ini file
[12:10] Kayaker Magic: I am.
[12:10] Arielle Popstar: any updates on a Opensim BoM release?
[12:11] Arielle Popstar: FS opensim
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: dan may release a new version one of this days
[12:11] Kayaker Magic: Also config show in console to see if it differs from the INI due to an over-ride
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: guess fs is about ready to make a release
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: no idea when
[12:11] Arielle Popstar: will that include the estate management tools?
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: thats old news
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: but yes
[12:11] Arielle Popstar: arent you working together with Beq on it?
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't always trust the comments in the ini file re: defaults. For some sections I prefer to set values so I know what is in use.
[12:12] Gavin.Hird are you talking about the FS opensim version?
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: beq is afk
[12:12] Arielle Popstar: ys Gavin
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: and releases are not her call
[12:12] Gavin.Hird I don't think it has seen a single commit for over a year
[12:12] Arielle Popstar: oh?
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: a commit where?
[12:13] Gavin.Hird I think they said they would only provide the SL version with some tradeoffs for opensim
[12:13] Gavin.Hird in the SF opensim repo
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: no
[12:13] Gavin.Hird FS
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: it will be a full SL/opensim release
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: if all goes as planed
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: eep is other story
[12:14] Gavin.Hird is SL ready for EEP? :-))
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: i have some code on it
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Do we want eep?
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: but stuck, because don't have test tpv
[12:14] Arielle Popstar: well if they think they are then fs will be issuing an update soon to include it right?
[12:14] Gavin.Hird even with the 6.4 RC many regions looks completely spaced out on region lighting
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: well i have cool vl but that does not have real EEP
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: epp is other story
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: eep
[12:15] Arielle Popstar: are we actually going to be able to keep pace with s/l anymore?
[12:15] Gavin.Hird I am going to try and take all the render changes without the settings mess
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, epp would be another story. hehe
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: no
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: eep may be one of the last things
[12:16] Arielle Popstar: so we should have stopped before Bom?
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: and if i manage to do it :)
[12:16] Gavin.Hird stopped before BOM?
[12:16] Arielle Popstar: before putting server side code in for BoM
[12:17] Gavin.Hird why Arielle?
[12:17] Arielle Popstar: its too bad there wasnt an opensim release before that
[12:17] Arielle Popstar: because of the backwards compatibility it breaks
[12:18] Arielle Popstar: you going to show us how BoM works Ubit?
[12:18] Gavin.Hird I'm getting the feedback BOM is a gamechanger, so there are probably different opinions on that out there
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: bom is old news
[12:18] Arielle Popstar: not seeing anyone wearing it yet so it isnt old
[12:18] Arielle Popstar: been no community testing of it
[12:19] Kayaker Magic: Ruth is just coming out with bom version now.
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: IIRC, the use of BoM is why I see some people with strange skin colours. I don't have a BOM capable viewer available.
[12:19] Arielle Popstar: in s/l it is
[12:19] Arielle Popstar: its handy
[12:19] Arielle Popstar: i use it there
[12:19] Arielle Popstar: but i dont think it will be big here for a while
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: ( it can be jelly things andrew )
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: I can tell the difference. Jelly avatars a different colour from top to bottom.
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: ok
[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill was one that showed a reddish skin but his clothing looked fine
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: guess bom is reaching "copybot" grids fast
[12:21] Arielle Popstar: i dont think so Ubit
[12:21] Arielle Popstar: why would it?
[12:21] Gavin.Hird you will see the underlying avatar poke through the mesh BOM one, so depending on what the default avatar is wearing, it could look pretty odd
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: bc most SL changed to BOM
[12:22] Arielle Popstar: but it is still aplied to the mesh
[12:22] Arielle Popstar: so just as easy to grab the whole mesh
[12:22] Ubit Umarov: you did not learned about BOM ?
[12:22] Arielle Popstar: mhmm
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: many tutorials on google now
[12:23] Arielle Popstar: all my bodies and heads in s/l and the groups of them talk about it and show how its done
[12:24] Ubit Umarov: and still you do not understand it
[12:24] Ubit Umarov: no prob you will :P
[12:24] Arielle Popstar: i understand it enough to make it work
[12:24] Arielle Popstar: do you understand the process of copybot?
[12:24] Ubit Umarov: thats mostly what its needed
[12:26] Gavin.Hird I don't think this meeting approves of copybot
[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: It does not.
[12:26] Arielle Popstar: no but thats what the topic is on
[12:26] Ubit Umarov: yeah copybot is just BAD
[12:26] Ubit Umarov: mentioned it bc it is a sad reality still
[12:27] Andrew Hellershanks: We have been going about an hour and a half. If we are getting in to mentions of copybotting this may be a good time to wrap up the meeting if there are no last minute questions.
[12:28] Arielle Popstar: well andrew, just my question about why the necessity of throtteling
[12:28] Ubit Umarov: guess the new version is on FS QA stages..
[12:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, read the notes from past meetings. That has been discussed several times before.
[12:28] Arielle Popstar: Andrew, i was at those meetings remember?
[12:28] Arielle Popstar: nothing was ever mentioned for the reason
[12:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, which means you already know the answer to the question.
[12:29] Kayaker Magic: Well thank you all, I am off to test some changes in my ini files.
[12:29] Arielle Popstar: no i am stating i dont because it has never been put out
[12:29] Gavin.Hird heve fun
[12:29] Ubit Umarov: cya kayaker
[12:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I'll be on IRC (I think) if you need more help.
[12:30] Arielle Popstar: and if it was such an easy answer you wouldnt need to be so evasive about it
[12:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, you must have missed the answer. I'm sure it has been given on more than one occasion.
[12:30] Arielle Popstar: ok so what is it?
[12:31] Arielle Popstar: give me a valid reason for it and i will support it and stop yammering about it in meetings
[12:31] Andrew Hellershanks: The basic reason is to be fair to all of the other people in the region so that one avatar doesn't ruin things for everyone else.
[12:31] Kayaker Magic: My opinion of IRC: and with that parting remark, POOF!
[12:31] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Kayaker. :)
[12:32] Arielle Popstar: the faster an avatar with a good connection loads, the faster everyone one else will get the extra bandwidth
[12:33] Arielle Popstar: besides when one avatar logs into lbsa when there are 10 already there fully loaded, where is the reason that it needs to take that one 5 minutes to see the rest?
[12:33] Arielle Popstar: as noone else is needing bandwidth having already loaded
[12:33] Gavin.Hird if that is the resosn it only makes sense to start throttling if there is contention. On a region with one or tow avatars it does not make much sense
[12:33] Arielle Popstar: exactly
[12:33] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, and while that one person is hogging all the resources everyone else will be experiencing lag.
[12:34] Arielle Popstar: assuming the servers have a pipe of at least 100 MB/s then even 5 MB is sufficient to keep them ok
[12:34] Arielle Popstar: but even so viewers are already throttled at 1500 KB/s
[12:34] Ubit Umarov: oops
[12:34] Ubit Umarov: need fo rl
[12:34] Andrew Hellershanks: You are making assumptions about the type of servers every grid runs.
[12:34] Ubit Umarov: cya all later here or there
[12:34] Gavin.Hird be safe Ubit
[12:35] Andrew Hellershanks: yes, it is time to call it quits for today. I also need to see to some RL stuff.
[12:35] Ubit Umarov: you all be safe also
[12:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming See you again next week.

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