Chat log from the meeting on 2020-02-25

[11:00] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi Andrew
[11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, George.
[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Evening George
[11:06] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi George
[11:06] George Equus: Hello Andrew and everyone
[11:06] George Equus: Forgot time, head full with nasty mesh and prims
[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nasty mes?
[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mesh*
[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Kayaker
[11:07] Kayaker Magic: Hello all!
[11:07] George Equus: Mmm, bad mesh linked with regiular prims can have strange effects
[11:07] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Kayaker
[11:07] George Equus: Hi Kayaker
[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I bet
[11:08] George Equus: said prims become invisible in certan angels and distances
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: hu
[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hu
[11:08] George Equus: no idea why but def. a fact
[11:09] George Equus: well, as always, keep away from badly made mesh
[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I can't say I have ever experienced that, but ok
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: never noticed that either
[11:10] George Equus: no problems with 1 "prim" mesh objects
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: but some prims do stay hidden until touched, ocasionaly with fs
[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: are you using textures with an alpah cannel on the mesh?
[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cause that can cause all kinds of interesting issues
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: yeap the always funny alpha bug
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: see it on some avatars.. terrible
[11:12] George Equus: Might have copy of the bad link set still, will pop over to sandbox and check it out and hopefully you can examine the link set. brb
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: but chaning the alpha mode may help
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: this is a sandbox
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: lol
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: 2 late
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: I was just about to ask George which physics engine he is using. I will have to hold that question until he returns.
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: well what news do you bring andrew ?
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: LL is no longer going to back Sansar. That could bring people back to SL or OpenSim grids.
[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it might
[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't think Sansar had much traction anyway
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: last i saw they still had no idea what to do with sansar, telling ppl to keep playing there
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: It had a number of obstacles to deal with from the start. Convincing people to try using it for one. Not having it as easy for creating items is another issue.
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: guess they are trying to sell it
[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ebbe said they are negotiating to sell it
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: wb, George.
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: George this is a sandbox also :)
[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there was an online interviewe with hin on Friday
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: George, what physics engine are you using?
[11:17] George Equus: thanks. found it. anyone want a copy let me know
[11:18] George Equus: ubODE
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: you can rez it back there
[11:19] George Equus: OK done that now
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: misissing prims?
[11:19] George Equus: zoom in and you'll see the effect
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: on the 2 pilars at my side?
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: yeah fun
[11:20] George Equus: one side cleaned of mesh but seem just one present will destroy all, linked OR unlinked regardless
[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have missing detail there too Ubit, but otherwise it looks OK from all angles and distances
[11:21] George Equus: very annoying when aproching an object like this and all look fine from a distance but vanish in part when getting closer
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: the 2 pilars far from me do disappear
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: odd
[11:21] Kayaker Magic: Where is this? I don't see nuthin
[11:21] George Equus: it is odd. took me ages to figuer out what caused it.
[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not in Dayturn
[11:21] George Equus: remove all mesh in that set and it behave fine
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: gezz all parts of pilar do vanisg
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: guess messed up LODs
[11:22] George Equus: one of those mesh object count 37 in land impact... should be 1
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the second one has a lot of missing detail
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: guess also happens unlinked?
[11:23] George Equus: yep
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Where are the items you are looking at?
[11:24] George Equus: just next of this building Andrew
[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the linked one has a lot of invisible items
[11:24] George Equus: very difficult to edit lol when zooming in...
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: The arch like thing over the path leading to this building?
[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you select it, they show as blue outlines
[11:24] George Equus: Yes Andrew
[11:25] George Equus: ugly, just demo the effect
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: One has a land impact of 95
[11:25] Kayaker Magic: OK, I see them. If you zoom in close the pillars become invisible.
[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, I see the same Kayaker
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I also see the effect Kayaker just mentioned.
[11:26] George Equus: right
[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what viewer did you upload the mesh with George?
[11:28] George Equus: I didn't, found it somewhere a long time ago
[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: hmm give me a copy of that thing plz
[11:28] George Equus: check it out now, all mesh removed and the original 30 m away
[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am more interested in inspecting the mesh
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: same effect
[11:29] George Equus: hmmm someone deleted most of it lol
[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: one of those column heads
[11:29] George Equus: all yours Ubit,
[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you rezz just one column head, how many LI does it show?
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: ill try to show it beq
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: to beq
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: well one day
[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 672580 triangles for the rezzed item with column heads
[11:32] Kayaker Magic: Gavin, I have seen several videos demonstrating mirrors in SL, is that a feature of the viewer? Why is that not used?
[11:32] George Equus: Visually that column head is nice but technically is disaster
[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ask Oz
[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: he does not want them
[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: apparently the viewer takes a very significant performance hit
[11:33] George Equus: usual way is to fake it with reverse copy below
[11:33] George Equus: double the prim count
[11:33] Kayaker Magic: So LL never released the mirror code for the viewer?
[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no
[11:34] George Equus: "real" mirrors do exit in EVE online
[11:34] George Equus: *exist
[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: apropos Sansar, Sincspace seems like the place people will migrate to
[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are videos out for how to convert both SL and Sansar content to Sinespace
[11:37] George Equus: Two features missing in Opensim, mirrors and lowering water on a parcel would make this near perfect. The one thing that will never be possible is digging a tunnel...
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Water height can be set. Mirrors would be nice.
[11:39] George Equus: Water height can only be lowered over a whole region. would be nice to be able to dig a hole for say a swimming pool with "real" system water in it
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: seems its the mesh really
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: no water is a sinlge object
[11:40] George Equus: Building a mine, well trying to anyway, so lowered ground and water to - 100m on a region
[11:41] George Equus: no haze effects when going down there
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: and mirrors are viers thing
[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mirror with recursion should really give the viewer something to chew on
[11:43] George Equus: Water seem to be same technically as ground, would imply possibility to dig a water free hole...
[11:43] George Equus: Mirrors would be a hit for many on opensim
[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: You can always submit a pull request for your ideas George, and I am sure the code will be tested
[11:46] George Equus: Would not know how to Gavin, not a tech person so just speak about it in public...lol
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok, then there will be no mirrors
[11:46] George Equus: Wish I knew how to code though, would facilitate a lot
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as it will be a massive performance hit
[11:47] George Equus: No idea how a mirror works but have no impact at all in EVE as far as I know
[11:47] George Equus: but very different code I image
[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is eve?
[11:48] George Equus: EVE Online, a space Battle game. booring... spent a year and got fed up
[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: why are you comparing tow completely different platforms?
[11:48] George Equus: Avatars could at one point walk in a cabin cor crews and there woas a mirror to check your outfit in
[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I bet you every mirror there is faked with textures
[11:51] George Equus: Not comparing anything Gavin, just stating the fact mirrors do exist in the gaming world. Would be cool to have that on opensim but code are too different and old I assume as we never see it here or in SL.
[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Opensim or SL is NOT a gaming world
[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[11:51] George Equus: EVE mirrors are "the real thing and behave exactly as in the real world
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: In a game there is virtually NO dynamic content, and every scene is usually highly optimized and canned
[11:52] George Equus: Gavinm, please don't pick on words, you know what I mean
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no, I don't know what you mean
[11:52] George Equus: Let's drop the subject then.
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[11:52] George Equus: "game" is a flexible term , annoying sosme it seem.
[11:53] George Equus: I regard opensim a dev place not a game
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is not when it comes to hwo it is constructed
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Just under 10 minutes to the top of the hour. Does someone have another topic for todays gathering?
[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: How is Kitely coming along Selby?
[11:54] George Equus: Anyone want to play some more with the mesh or can I delete it?
[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think you should probably delete it as it seems corrupt
[11:55] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Kitely is generally wworking well
[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so they have sorted the issues that were?
[11:55] George Equus: Def. corrupt lol. Pity on the pillar heads they are unusable though
[11:56] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: But they are still fixing problems. Their customer who wanted 0.9 is apparently saticfied
[11:56] Kayaker Magic: Can any viewer save mesh as a DAE? I just tried to save that pillar head as DAE to look at it in Blender, FS would not let me.
[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Dayturn can
[11:57] George Equus: Seem I can't delete those two link sets out front.
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: well i had no feedback about kitely issues still
[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you have sufficient privs to the mesh
[11:57] George Equus: FS can't unfortunately,
[11:57] Kayaker Magic: George, I'll try to tear that pillar head apart and see if it can be fixed. Bug me next week!
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: If FS can't I wonder why the menu entry is still enabled in the viewer.
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: you need full rights kayker
[11:58] Kayaker Magic: God mode in my own region should fix that....
[11:58] George Equus: cool Kayaker! I will. good luck
[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: FS should if you have full ownership to mesh and textures
[11:59] Kayaker Magic: But I have to go see a man about cutting down a tree in RL. Gota run!
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Kayaker. tc
[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Have fun
[11:59] Kayaker Magic: Bye for now!
[11:59] George Equus: Bye
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Its the top of the hour. If there is nothing more for today we can wrap up this meeting.
[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: New viewer build was out on Monday
[12:00] George Equus: Didn't Singu allow DAE export?
[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a few fixes plus the ability to see all grid URIs for a grid
[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have also opened a support case with Apple Developer support on signing/notraizing the viewer
[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is no easy fix I am afraid
[12:03] George Equus: Thanks for an interesting hour. Back to my project. Bye everyone.
[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bye George
[12:03] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bye everyone
[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bye Selby
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: That will do it for today. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.