Chat log from the meeting on 2020-01-21

From OpenSimulator

Jump to: navigation, search

[11:03] Ubit Umarov: i don't dare to allow full autopilot to workd
[11:03] Gavin.Hird as PGSQLSimmulationData is an utter mess
[11:03] Ubit Umarov: would need to change the logic a lot
[11:03] Gavin.Hird some of the stuff has never worked since the day it was first implemented
[11:03] Ubit Umarov: bc with it, viewer moves the avatar, and the sit can be canceled
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... not many people here today.
[11:04] Gavin.Hird Hi Andres
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: so at end of that autopilot viewer sends another comand to actually commit the sit
[11:04] Gavin.Hird everyone is watching the impeachment trial live??.....
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: a PAIN
[11:04] Gavin.Hird Andrew
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: the what?
[11:05] Gavin.Hird the impeachment trial of Trump
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: The impeachment thing is still ongoing? I thought it had been resolved. I stopped hearing about it for a while.
[11:05] Ubit Umarov: ( sl also seesm to not let the viewer actually autopilot )
[11:05] Gavin.Hird It started an hour ago in the Senate
[11:05] Ubit Umarov: ok now the sit did more my camera
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't pay much attention to US politics.
[11:06] Gavin.Hird there was a change for that Ubit a year or so back where they decided not to use autopilot
[11:06] Ubit Umarov: grrr damm stand is still odd
[11:07] Gavin.Hird it is odd also in SL
[11:07] Ubit Umarov: strange it is predictable on my test region
[11:07] Ubit Umarov: well or so it seems
[11:07] Gavin.Hird same animation?
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: no animation
[11:08] Object: Script running
[11:08] Gavin.Hird barsit1
[11:08] Gavin.Hird is in the chair
[11:08] Gavin.Hird so perhaps the naimation tries to kick you in a specail direction or the sit script does
[11:09] Object: Script running
[11:09] Gavin.Hird animation
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Basic sit scripts just do an unsit.
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: well a small rotation
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: possivel head/torso thing
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: YEACK
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: damm viewers
[11:11] Gavin.Hird stop messing with god given behavior, haha
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:11] Object: Script running
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: grrr mouse look dir is a mess
[11:11] Gavin.Hird you beet
[11:11] Gavin.Hird bet
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: well not sure if this is in may last commit
[11:13] Gavin.Hird what else is happening?
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: so stupid.. region can't control avatar orientation directly
[11:15] Gavin.Hird probably a good thing to let the avatar have a free will
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Do we have much to talk about today or are we going to wind up with a short meeting?
[11:17] Gavin.Hird I don't have a lot
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: meeting must last 1 hour
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: ppl may arrive late
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: They might but it is already almost 20 past and only 4 of us here.
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: it is not a train :p
[11:18] Gavin.Hird I am translating the viewer to French at the best of my ability given my limited education on the language
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: yeah guess no one is coming
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: well im having network issues again
[11:18] Gavin.Hird but there should be a new version published before the week-edn with both improved Estate access support, and better German and French localization
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, fun stuff.
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: with strong wind it seems to fail acording to it
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: analog voice is dead
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: guess the wires in air ara damaged
[11:19] dj phil: HI all
[11:19] Gavin.Hird Hi dj
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Hi, dj.
[11:19] Gavin.Hird you have airborne wires carrying your internet?
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: yeap
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: every thing airborne here
[11:20] Gavin.Hird I am glad I have solid in the ground fiber
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: well water isn't :p
[11:20] Gavin.Hird not raining there :-)
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, the wires are running between poles there? There is a bit of that where I am but most of it is underground.
[11:20] Selby.Evans Hi dj
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: well distributed water :p
[11:21] Gavin.Hird ;-)
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: undergroud is 2 expensive
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: and good,. bc they destroy the roads
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: usually just after it had been fixed
[11:22] Gavin.Hird they try to route those things next to the roads
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: you mean in the middle of them...
[11:22] Gavin.Hird on the side
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: nopes
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: imn middle here :p
[11:23] Gavin.Hird that was the old way
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: thats the way here
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: That's what is done where I am. If it has to go under the roadway the company has a sideways drilling machine. Sort of like drilling for oil but sideways and it is guided so it can drill holes for the cable to run under the grass beside the road or under the road to get from one side to the other.
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: well the connection from my central to next one is underground
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: the water guys destroyed it :p
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: middle of road... only space for one :p
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: so stupid here
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: well whatever
[11:24] Gavin.Hird old cities and housing areas all is in the middle of the road
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: but all distribution is airborn
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: power lines also, of course
[11:25] Gavin.Hird but they usually don't have fiber
[11:25] Gavin.Hird power dug down too
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: yeah but that is expensive
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: and would require all that to be owned by municipe
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: and it is not
[11:26] Gavin.Hird in the long run it is cheaper than have the lines broken down by or disrupted by snowfall
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: so each companie does what it wants
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: the roads one does repairs
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: then the water one messes it all
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: no sync, nothing
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: well normal 3rd world country that we are :p
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: just in EU by geographic accident
[11:27] Gavin.Hird haha
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: well i did reduce the stand jumps a bit
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: That's good.
[11:29] Gavin.Hird yep
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: What is the current status of YEngine? What work is still to be done on it?
[11:29] Gavin.Hird I just love it when you stand up and are located half through the ceiling and the only way to resolve it is going up
[11:30] Selby.Evans OSCC videos are up:
[11:31] Gavin.Hird thanks
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Thanks, Selby.
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: you tell us andrew :p
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: well its options still not to use
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: the try catch till has at least a nasty case
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: but should be used as plain LSL engine
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: One grid needs the ability to change the size of the event queue. There currently is not ini setting for that. Kitely is sticking with XEngine for now due in part to some school(?) use that they can't risk disrupting during the semester.
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: that grid should fix their scripts
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: 64 entries per event and per script is just more than enough
[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: I could make use of switch statements. I haven't needed try/catch in LSL scripts.
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: yeap swith is there for strings and ints if i remember
[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, they don't know which event queue is hitting the limit. Could be just one of them. IIRC, it happens when rezzing a scene.
[11:35] Selby.Evans Yes, Andrew, a school. Kitely is getting major school business
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: of course use of that will increase compatibilty issues across hg
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: well that that thing does recover
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: after consuming the events
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: so.. something very wrong
[11:36] Selby.Evans Since their Organizations initiative
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: the once told me they also need to run old ODE on some regions
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: but any grid jumping from obsolete 0.8 shoudl start with "safe" defaults
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: ie bullet and xengine
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Dropping of events kills the script. What I may have to do for them is put in a patch to log which event queue is hitting the limit. That will allow them to make appropriate adjustments.
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: then the script is broken
[11:38] Selby.Evans Kitely presently lets users run ODE or Bullet on a per region basis
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: nothing more to tell
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Sure, tell them that.
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: ( specially not seeing any mantis.. nothing )
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: i just did, on this log
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: but guess they also don't care about this logs
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Doesn't sound like it will be worth filing a mantis as you will tell them to fix their script as you have already stated needs to be done.
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: better than sending messages by you :p
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: at least we could see a example.. something,, if a proper mantis
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: without any clear example, of course hard to say anything else
[11:41] Gavin.Hird the scripot is probably a trade secret
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: There isn't much for me to relay other than "fix your script".
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: with some touble they could make a "like" case
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: but can't guess
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, it is very dense script, IIRC. I think it would not be easy to create a simple test case that shows the problem they are having.
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: jsut don't seen anything on regions startup that can send 64 events
[11:43] Gavin.Hird I can see that, and many scripters are protective of their work
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: unless something bad somewhere
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: The problem doesn't occur on region start. It is when they are rezzing a set of objects.
[11:44] Gavin.Hird scripted objects I presume?
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: can'0 t tell without a example
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: just something filling up 64 event queue, is basicly killed the region also
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: killing
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll put in a patch to let them know what event type is exceeding the queue limit. That will be a starting point. Running their scripts in YEngine is not as big an issue now with Kitely staying on XEngine for now.
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: if runs on Y, it should run on X also
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: and X has similar limit on events queue
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: or is suposed to have :p
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: X does but X also has an ini setting that lets you set the limit.
[11:46] Gavin.Hird maybe they can try and identify the issue by rezzing fewer objects at the time. sounds like they create an event-storm
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: well a even storm is just bad to the all region
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I think that is the case. I know for myself that I ran in to problems with a dome rezzer script if it tried to rez too many objects at once. I had to slow it down a little.
[11:48] Gavin.Hird right, so probably something there to have a look at
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... there are on rez notifications. That queue could easily fill up if rezzing too fast.
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: what is the X limit that works for them ?
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: They have it set to 5000 but that doesn't mean that is the required value. It was an arbitrary number that avoided the problem.
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: duhhhh
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: suicidal
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Doesn't seem to have any noticable impact on the region.
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: ( see there are reasons why not have some options.. :p )
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll add some extra logging to determine which queue is the one causing a problem for them. Can't do much without that info.
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: yeap that will help
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: How about that. We managed to kill the hour after all. :)
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: just put a lot on that limit check we seen the other day
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone have any other topic for today?
[11:55] Gavin.Hird time flies when you're having fun
[11:56] Gavin.Hird LL has been awfully quiet since New Years. Not quite sure what they are cooking on
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: well guess still some git changes
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: vs2017
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: eep
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: seems epp is on release candidate now
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: is now
[11:57] Gavin.Hird + the upcoming potential block of the viewer on macOS and removal of OpenGL
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: wel still didn't pass bom.. and wwp
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: eep
[11:57] Gavin.Hird weep
[11:57] Selby.Evans Must go -- bye all
[11:58] Gavin.Hird bye
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: well had sparks with liru
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Selby.
[11:58] Gavin.Hird again?
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: when i was doing bom i did ask "her" abotu singu bom
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: she ignored me
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: now was surprised abotu opensim bom requeirements
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: so silly
[11:59] Gavin.Hird fighting one war at the time
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: ans sisnce saw a discord opensim thing, assumed it was the oficial opensim
[11:59] Gavin.Hird right now she/they need to delivr a Singu for SL that is feature complete
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: "everyone" is there
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: mail lists are thing of the past
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: bahh
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: think it was the same sparks i already did told you gavin :)
[12:00] Gavin.Hird all right :-)
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: had nothing else from her
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: wither ignoring opensim, or discussing it at that discord
[12:01] Gavin.Hird busy making commits
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: or just deciding how opensim is, as some viewers do :p
[12:01] Gavin.Hird they are sort of discussing .Net right now there
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: who where?
[12:02] Gavin.Hird in the discord
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: on that channel?
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: and who?
[12:02] Gavin.Hird one sec
[12:03] Gavin.Hird Mike Chase
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: #general tab of opensimulator channel.
[12:03] Gavin.Hird I'm kinda wondering if its time to make modernization a focal point for opensim. dotnet is changing and in v5 it will all be netcore based. We'll need to deal with compatibility at some point. The earlier the better.
[12:03] Gavin.Hird Mike ChaseToday at 2:21 AM
Related to my comment about modernizing OpenSim
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: yeah yeah
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: and expect something like opensim to work on that
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: and COre is dead
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: replaced by net5
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: .net core 1
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: was mentioned. Mike Chase dropped in a link to info about .NET 4.8 ->
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: and those guys forget mono
[12:06] Gavin.Hird that is the link I pasted above
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: So you did. I was looking at the Discord channel for a moment.
[12:07] Gavin.Hird right :-)
[12:07] Ubit Umarov: we have tons of old libs
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: and the new crap is nuget based, and signed
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: impossible to use
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: mysql is like that and still .net4.5
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: not even 4.8
[12:08] Gavin.Hird you probably have to pay Oracle to get any more recent
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: well even so useless
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: adds 5 more libraries
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: all signed, and must be exactly that bin
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: MySQL has done something again in a recent update that is causing problems for me to even get it running on my machine.
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: so, we may endup with several versions of zlib
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: for example
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: because stupid nuget and sign
[12:11] Gavin.Hird postgres is more or less the only db that can be had totally for free
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: already had that fight with mono addins
[12:11] Gavin.Hird with all features I mean
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: also forcing older libs
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: had to kill all its nuget crap
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: maria ?
[12:12] Gavin.Hird they have an enterprise and pricing tab on their website
[12:13] Gavin.Hird
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: well all hate free software now
[12:13] Gavin.Hird yes
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: it is a violation of liberal market
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, Misterblue. We are going to be wrapping things up in a few minutes.
[12:14] Gavin.Hird Hi MB
[12:14] dj phil: hi Misterblue
[12:14] Misterblue Waves: no problem... happened to be at my computer during meeting time
[12:14] Misterblue Waves: doesn't happen often
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:14] Misterblue Waves: Hi all!
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: hi
[12:15] dj phil: I would like to know what exactly is the url release for in the opensim .ini file.
Can we use it somewhere? Can we access it with a console command or something?
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: well dropping appdomains, is something i almost did :)
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Misterblue, always good to see you. Before we wrap up do you have any news you want to share?
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: url release for in the opensim .ini ??
[12:16] Misterblue Waves: I don't have news.... I've been spending too much time in RL ;-)
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: but netcore or 5 or the crap they call it is a lot more than that
[12:16] dj phil: this ServerReleaseNotesURL
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: mb a major rewrite of critical oepnsim code
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Misterblue, np. I know that situation. I have a lot going on in RL myself.
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: well it is on our ini files :)
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: let me see last
[12:17] Misterblue Waves: I'd love to re-engineer OS... just rip it apart and make it into a fancy, serverless collection of services
[12:17] dj phil: seems a new service ..
[12:17] dj phil: [ServerReleaseNotes]
 ;; Comment or set to "" to disable
ServerReleaseNotesURL = ""
[12:17] Misterblue Waves: but there's no time for that :)
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: just a minor detail on that
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Misterblue, Sounds like a plan. When are you going to start?  ;)
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: we like things that do work :p
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: ( and do the work today.. not next year.. )
[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a project I'm working on that I feel could benefit from a rewrite.
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: ppl should stop thinging about opensim with a normal application mentality
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: opensim needs more a game like mentalaty performance MATTERs
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: dj this one is still
[12:19] Misterblue Waves: there are several HiFi spin-offs that are trying to create what OpenSim has but with the HiFi sources (personal hosted servers, client for multiple platforms, ....)
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: is current dev
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: url format is that
[12:20] Ubit Umarov:
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: well 0 will one day change :)
[12:20] dj phil: I just want to know what it is for
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: see viewer about
[12:21] Gavin.Hird whatever people try to do don't matter much to the existing opensim users and grids unless it can be taken advantage off immeidately
[12:21] Gavin.Hird and also preserver their content
[12:21] Misterblue Waves: to stay OpenSim-ish and keep the community, one would have to keep the protocol and the viewer
[12:21] dj phil: You mean this url is passed to the viewer?
[12:22] Misterblue Waves: all of the backend could change and, ya, keep the existing content
[12:22] Ubit Umarov: it is there just for that dj
[12:22] dj phil: Ho ok
[12:22] Ubit Umarov: for the viwers about
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Not necessarily, MB. If the back end was changed radically and a viewer changed to match a lot could be done.
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: It just increases the amount of work.
[12:22] dj phil: I thought it was something for us, that we could use ...
[12:23] dj phil: ok thank you
[12:23] Misterblue Waves: if there was work on the Viewer for OpenSIm a lot could change
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: well we are opensim, not space or sansar
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: any move must start where we are
[12:23] Gavin.Hird there is work on viewer for opensim
[12:23] Misterblue Waves: yes... we are OpenSim!
[12:24] Ubit Umarov: that mel and diva viewer was a brave new crap
[12:24] Gavin.Hird and not some fantasy project discussed at the conference
[12:24] Ubit Umarov: thats why i never touched it
[12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I think we should wrap this up soon. My cat has been wanting my attention for the last 10 minutes or so.
[12:24] Ubit Umarov: oops
[12:24] Ubit Umarov: that was for a im
[12:24] Ubit Umarov: LOL
[12:24] Gavin.Hird why would you touch it
[12:24] Gavin.Hird it was DOA
[12:24] Ubit Umarov: but well i did said that several times, just nicer words :)
[12:25] Gavin.Hird for multiple reasons including software licensing
[12:25] Gavin.Hird actually particularly for software licensing
[12:25] Ubit Umarov: that was solved with xenko
[12:25] Ubit Umarov: at least xenko 3.0
[12:25] Ubit Umarov: but 300 nuget packages???
[12:25] Ubit Umarov: FORGET
[12:25] Ubit Umarov: lol
[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: After deciding the initial engine they tried to use wasn't going to work as they wanted a new engine was tried but things got quiet around that time.
[12:26] Misterblue Waves: Xenko doesn't have many people working on it
[12:26] Misterblue Waves: when compared to Godot which has a lot of work
[12:27] Ubit Umarov: yeah guess owner companie just gave up on it
[12:27] Gavin.Hird and pretty much Windows only
[12:27] Ubit Umarov: letting some coders keep it as opensource
[12:27] Ubit Umarov: ( 2.0 is not free )
[12:28] Ubit Umarov: well last time i look was a year or more ago
[12:28] Ubit Umarov: well last time i look was a year or more ago
[12:28] Andrew Hellershanks: A number of the options explored start as Windows only which sets some limits on its potential audience when it comes to replacing what we already have.
[12:28] Ubit Umarov: it did work on linux, i think
[12:28] Ubit Umarov: of course, not if you pick dx12
[12:29] Gavin.Hird it needs to work on mobile or you can just forget it
[12:29] Ubit Umarov: but it had opengel
[12:29] Gavin.Hird open gel?
[12:29] Andrew Hellershanks: OpenGL
[12:29] Ubit Umarov: yeap :p
[12:29] Gavin.Hird :-))
[12:29] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:30] Ubit Umarov: it had several low level versions
[12:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, perhaps open gel has something to do with the jelly avatars when their complexity is too high. ;)
[12:30] Ubit Umarov: several versions of opengel ( .P ) direct x etc
[12:30] Gavin.Hird haha
[12:30] Ubit Umarov: possible as the apple thing now
[12:30] Gavin.Hird Metal
[12:30] Ubit Umarov: ..has..
[12:31] Ubit Umarov: well not going to look now
[12:31] Gavin.Hird Metal and open gel
[12:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Its now at the half past mark. I need to get going as I have some work to do and a cat back calling for me again.
[12:31] Ubit Umarov: making a working viewer is not a small thing
[12:31] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm going to head out. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.

Personal tools
About This Wiki