Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-15

[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm now using FS 6.0.1 beta so I see that animated mesh character that is walking around on bar island.
[11:02] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well mantis about a issue on recent version and one says is on 0.9.0.1
[11:02] Sheera Khan: funny thing is: I saw him walking last week
[11:03] Sheera Khan: this week he is standing in a T-Pose
[11:03] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: hg i guess
[11:03] Sheera Khan: and it is the same 6.0.1 Beta
[11:03] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yr viewers asked metro for the anim
[11:04] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: its a timing thing like the avatar names etc
[11:04] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well guessing..
[11:05] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no.. viewer just forgets the anim
[11:05] Sheera Khan: sorry, I thought about my sissy who could see the anim
[11:05] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: unless by miracle metro also has it
[11:06] Sheera Khan: shouldn't this region serve the anim?
[11:06] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: see it dancing now ?
[11:06] Sheera Khan: nopes :-(
[11:06] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: grrr it is a old hg issue
[11:06] Bill Blight: It should, but the FS cache is easily borked
[11:06] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well not on this
[11:06] testObjAnim: animation VAGUARDst11danceRoot
[11:06] testObjAnim: Stop
[11:06] testObjAnim: animation VAGUARDst11
[11:06] testObjAnim: Starting
[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but it allowed me to reset the skeleton, so now it has long legs
[11:06] testObjAnim: animation VAGUARDst11danceRoot
[11:06] testObjAnim: Stop
[11:07] Sheera Khan: no change for me ...
[11:07] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: look to fs version again with glasses.. says 5 or 6 ?
[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I see the animesh sliding around on the counter top more than it walks.
[11:08] Sheera Khan: Firestorm 6.0.1 (56538) Dec 8 2018 09:22:04 (64bit) (Firestorm-Betax64) mit OpenSimulator-Unterstützung
[11:09] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well dunno .. i do see it ( and that Beta on version may mean something)
[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ubit der Zerstörer
[11:10] Bill Blight: I see it fine too , so it just does not like Sheera
[11:12] Sheera.Khan @grid.opensim.life:8002: Using the same viewer on the same computer I can see the little man running around
[11:12] Sheera Khan: and I don't - funny, isn't it?
[11:14] Bill Blight: so something is not making the round trip to Metro, I'd guess
[11:16] Bill Blight: So other than random errors on the Mantis that are really hard to replicate, anything to talk about?
[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Not much. New viewer builds here: https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?resources/
[11:17] Bill Blight: cool
[11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: There have been some updates to the OpenSimProfile module based on findings by djphil.
[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I still have a couple of remaining issues still to be worked on.
[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Leigthon, we have just been talking about animated mesh.
[11:20] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: aniwhat??
[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: and issues related to it.
[11:20] Bill Blight: Not-Animesh
[11:20] Bill Blight: can you see the little one on the bar island walking around?
[11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I couldn't see it last week as I was still on FS 5. I see it this week. If that isn't an animated mesh what is it?
[11:23] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: in case you didn't notice, scaling the mesh in world does nothing
[11:23] Bill Blight: I'ts not Animesh, animesh is owned by LL .. :P
[11:23] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: Animesh is a TM name for SL
[11:23] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: animation puts it back to uploaded size
[11:23] Sheera Khan: So it's called: Ani-What?
[11:23] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: *assuming they TM's it*
[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok. What are you calling it?
[11:23] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: object animation
[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hm... Might need to say mesh object animation as not all objects could be animated.
[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Or mesh animation?
[11:25] Bill Blight: ROAM
[11:25] Bill Blight: Rigged Object Animated Mesh
[11:25] Bill Blight: LOL
[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :)
[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: That works, Bill.
[11:26] Bill Blight: little guy is roaming around
[11:26] Bill Blight: LOL
[11:27] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ok see my monster ?
[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I was almost about to say it is only January. :)
[11:27] Bill Blight: Kayaker, can you go buy your parcel over on fest so we can clear the number and get our spreadsheets updated ..
[11:28] Kayaker Magic: What did I miss? Any discussion about Vivox?
[11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: going to ser anim
[11:28] Bill Blight: Vivox server move is still not done
[11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: see?
[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: We haven't gotten to Vivox yet, Kayaker.
[11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: inworld scale does nothing
[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is there a support page or contact for Vivox?
[11:28] Bill Blight: Contacting them will do nothing
[11:28] Sheera Khan: I can see it standing still in T-Pose
[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I'd be interested to know what client version to put in the viewers
[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: A grid notice went out in the GCG that voice was back then they sent out another notice to say it was not working again.
[11:28] Bill Blight: they sent out an email that that they were moving servers
[11:29] Bill Blight: "Hi Folks,

We are writing to you since, during the past 2 years, you have registered to utilize Vivox's Free Virtual World Voice Service, and to inform you that over the coming days, we will be migrating this service (www.osp.vivox.com) from one data center to another. This will involve a DNS address change and there should be no changes required on your part. We do expect Vivox services to be sporadically unavailable during this transition.

Best Regards,
Vivox Operations"
[11:29] Kayaker Magic: The gold mesh was walking around and the red one in the T pose, but the red one just started dancing!
[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: MONSTA!
[11:30] Bill Blight: so Vivox will be back when Vivox gets back
[11:30] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: odd why they don't apply inworld scale also
[11:30] Bill Blight: LOL
[11:31] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and confusing
[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the skeleton can be somewhat scaled, but the rigging determines the size basically
[11:31] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeap
[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: can't you use the sliders on it?
[11:32] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no
[11:32] Bill Blight: How would you use sliders on a object?
[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you should be able to
[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the sliders work on the rigging
[11:32] Bill Blight: you could if you wore it
[11:32] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no they don't
[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: like for a normal avatar
[11:33] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: wouldnt you need to be wearing it
[11:33] Bill Blight: but objects don't have a slider interface
[11:33] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: objects have no visualparameters
[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: You are saying you have to set the object size on import? It can't be changed after it is in world?
[11:33] Bill Blight: correct Andrew
[11:33] Bill Blight: it snaps to the rig size
[11:33] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: look this
[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: That could become annoying. Is that a temporary problem? Shouldn't the rigging scale with the object?
[11:34] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: see its inworld size ?
[11:34] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well even a mess lol
[11:34] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ignored once active.. back to uploaded size
[11:35] Bill Blight: it is the same as worn rigged mesh, it snaps to the rig/skeleton size, but as Ubit said objects don't have the ability to set visual params
[11:35] Bill Blight: for skel
[11:35] Bill Blight: ugg I can't type
[11:35] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ugggg would had been worse
[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actually it does but there is no official interface for it
[11:36] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: visualparams are part of bodyparts
[11:36] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: objects do not have those
[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think you can do it with the viewer python test scripts
[11:37] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well ll no slides on wiki
[11:37] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: says..
[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: visual paramas are also part of the rigging since Bento
[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are lots of bones added for that purpose
[11:38] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and mk sense they are avatar wearables
[11:38] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: bones, not the modifiers
[11:38] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ie the values avatar app slides change
[11:38] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and are stored on body parts
[11:39] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: namely body
[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and there are a lot of bones added in Bento that does the same for rigged meshes
[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: also for animated meshes
[11:40] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: bones != visualparameters
[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what you call visual paramaters I call morph targets
[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is what they are
[11:41] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: the values you do set on edit appearance
[11:41] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: that are morphs etc parameters
[11:42] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and as i said on avatars are stored on body
[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the same parameters does to a large degree work on the Bento additional rigging to simulate the same on worn meshes
[11:42] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and other body parts.. don' remember
[11:42] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: they are applied to bones etc
[11:43] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: deforming the mesh acording to vertices weights
[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the animated objects have the Bento skeleton and can be changed accordingly
[11:43] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well whatever
[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but there is no exposed interface for it right now
[11:44] Bill Blight: (I think that is what I said earlier)
[11:44] Bill Blight: :P
[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ;-)
[11:44] Kayaker Magic: I am hoping that I can make my own armatures that are not bento or legacy avatar. For example a flag with an armature that waves in the wind.
[11:44] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: don't think that will happen
[11:44] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: see this is just a reuse of avatar engine, not that new
[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you have to use the Bento rigging, but you can use as few bones as you want
[11:44] Kayaker Magic: Dang.
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for something waving in the wind, probably the tail bones can be used
[11:46] Kayaker Magic: HiFi has animated mesh and even allows you to change the bone angles in a script (do the animation in an in-world script). But they keep changing the API every few months so my scripts stop working and I have to start over. Every few months.
[11:46] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: thats overdoing
[11:46] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I could imagine some interesting effects that could be done if it was possible to adjust the rigging or the size of bones via a script.
[11:46] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: totally killing real time performance
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: lsl already allows changes it should not
[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can change both, but I am not sure there is LSL for it right now
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, that's annoying.
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: like child prims positions on a physical object
[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as I said, I believe the viewer test python scripts can do it
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: thats heavy.. should not be possible
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: well unless basic toy physics
[11:48] Kayaker Magic: HiFi has scripts that run in the viewer, but is still messed up in other ways. Let's get back to OpenSim.
[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't think you can make an animated mesh physical
[11:49] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: will it go phantom like attachments?
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: i was talking about a dif thing
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: No bumping in to them?
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: worse
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: we do collide with it on its original position
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: see??
[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think you will cut through them
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: im colliding the the monster
[11:50] Bill Blight: yes just like avatars that are being animated
[11:50] Kayaker Magic: For example, during the time that Vivox was completely down, the region simulator code was waiting 30 seconds synchronously to connect to vivox. During that time TP and many other things stalled. Is there a setting to change that timeout? Can it be made asynch?
[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you have to test it in SL for the reference implementation
[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: new viewer code disconnects voice during TP
[11:51] Bill Blight: if you ever go to dances, when people are animating they pass right through you, now if you add actual movement to the item such as "Walking in a direction" I'm sure you'd run into it ..
[11:52] Bill Blight: Pretty sure he did test in SL Gavin
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: avatar dances are sits
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: play a dance is not
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: if you play withou sit, we colide with you on original position
[11:53] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, animations do not move the avatar at all.
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: here is the commit for disconnecting voice https://bitbucket.org/dayturn/dayturn/commits/57392de818a8c2425b02aa304440a9b2c4ecc7a0
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: for that sl recomends that animations should not move the thing 2 far
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: it suposed to disc
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: it is a big channel change
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Five minutes remaining before the top of the hour. Any other topic for discussion?
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: If there is nothing more for today we can head out a few minutes early. :)
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see anyone typing so that will do it for today. You have a whole two minutes extra time to do something. :)
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: we can.. but you must stay andrew to do the proper work hours
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: all animations and sounds are a bit critical
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: a bit of lag and viewer gives up
[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have disabled the cap for OpenSim right now
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: what cap ?
[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: animated mesh cap
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: not exactly a cap
[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that's what LL calls it
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: hack
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: its a flag
[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: whatever it is, it is disabled for Opensim in my viewer right now
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: they had no where else where tell region about viewer suport
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: so made that hack
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, why have you disabled it?
[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because the implementation here is highly experimental
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: ok
[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and I need a stable environment to test against when building viewer versions
[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so not taking that serverside code for the time being
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: well ppl does use fs mainly
[12:05] Bill Blight: Yeah so most people will have the function
[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when the time comes to test animesh also on the Windows version I will do on aditi
[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the macOS version pass all tests there