Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-08

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[10:48] Sheera Khan: what would you think of the idea that on restart of a region avatars still there would be TP'ed home instead of simply being disconnected?
[10:48] Sheera Khan: sure, an admin could login to do that manually
[10:49] Bill Blight: I have a script that does that, so yeah if it was in core would be cool
[10:49] Sheera Khan: I just thought of an option to do that during a routine restart
[10:50] Bill Blight: yeah might be nice
[10:50] Sheera Khan: I just think it would be nicer than simply disconnecting them
[10:51] Bill Blight: but if you send an alert, they should pay attention to that
[10:52] Sheera Khan: they should but sometimes they are busy sorting the inv or whatever ^^
[10:52] Bill Blight: While I think your idea is a good idea, I'm not a fan of removing personal responsibility either ..
[10:52] Sheera Khan: well, yes. I thought specifically about our region for newbies...
[10:53] Kayaker Magic: There is a tiny gold avatar in the T position over the bar, what is that about?
[10:53] Bill Blight: if you are using FS6 you will see that tiny avatar walking around
[10:53] Bill Blight: (it is what Ubit calls NOT-animesh)
[10:54] Bill Blight: Not an NPC
[10:54] Kayaker Magic: OH! Has he implemented armatures for any mesh object??????!!!!
[10:54] Bill Blight: (yes it is animesh, but Ubit does not want to call it that)
[10:55] Bill Blight: and he is not publicizing it yet
[10:55] Kayaker Magic: WOW! That is big, people have been using zillions of CPU cycles to animate things the hard way for lack of that feature!
[10:56] Bill Blight: can we just give it up and officially change Ubit's name to Ubrokeit?
[10:56] Kayaker Magic: Hi Ubit! Where can I read up on animesh?
[10:56] Ubit Umarov: animwhat ?
[10:56] Sheera Khan: NotAniMesh ;-)
[10:56] Gavin.Hird ON SL websites
[10:57] Ubit Umarov: and you need fs beta 6.0.1
[10:57] Kayaker Magic: What do THEY (LL) call it?
[10:57] Gavin.Hird or the SL viewer
[10:57] Bill Blight: LL Calls it Animesh
[10:57] Gavin.Hird or my Mac version of the viewer
[10:58] Kayaker Magic: I'm due for a new version of FS anyway.
[10:58] Bill Blight: We have "NotAnimesh" or as Ubit says, "Ani-What?"
[10:59] testObjAnim: animation
[10:59] testObjAnim: Stop
[11:00] Ubit Umarov: any one with fs beta ( or other updated viewer? )
[11:01] Selby.Evans I have the old FS
[11:01] Gavin.Hird Here is my viewer updates
[11:01] Leighton.Marjoram I am on the 6beta
[11:01] Ubit Umarov: nice i didn't kill all other viewers rezzing this :) )
[11:01] Gavin.Hird new name, new color scheme, new icon, Bento support and lots of bug fixes
[11:01] Gavin.Hird new forum too
[11:01] Bill Blight: If you have FS 6 beta you might see some "NotAnimesh" things
[11:02] Leighton.Marjoram Nice Gavin will check it out
[11:02] Gavin.Hird I see it
[11:02] Gavin.Hird it is not ported to the windows version yet, but soon
[11:02] Bill Blight: Yes Gavin but you cheat ... LMAO ..  :P
[11:02] Ubit Umarov: anyone sees a red thing dancing near me ?
[11:03] Kayaker Magic: I see the red thing, but it is not dancing, 'cause my viewer is too old.
[11:03] Andrew.Hellershanks I hope everyone enjoyed the holidays.
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: well a minor thing... that made make a total mess :)
[11:04] Andrew.Hellershanks What dancing red thing are you talking about?
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: made me make a total mess on code, i mean
[11:04] Leighton.Marjoram I see the red avatar but its not dancing for me just standing in the T pose
[11:05] Ubit Umarov: get fs beta 6.0.1 andrew
[11:05] Bill Blight: Yes you NEED FS 6 or Gavin's MAC viewer
[11:05] Kayaker Magic: I was looking into HighFidelity to get access to "animesh" like features, but they kept changing things and breaking my code.
[11:05] Leighton.Marjoram I am on FS6 and its not dancing lol
[11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks Ubit, ok, but not now. I'll also have to apply a minor patch to it for a feature I have in my current FS.
[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks I had to shut my browser down during this meeting or else my CPU temp will get too high.
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: so no one but me and bill sees the red monster dancing ?
[11:08] Leighton.Marjoram nope
[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks I don't even see anyone/anything standing in a T-pose.
[11:09] Bill Blight: there is one on in the middle of the bar too
[11:09] Kayaker Magic: Last meeting, before the holidaze, I was complaining about sitting acting strange when I did strange things (like sitting multiple avatars on a single prim). So I went back to SL and ran the same tests. It works the same (strange way) there as it does here now! Good job Ubit!
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: ohh yes there is
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: but not red.. ugly
[11:09] Bill Blight: didn't want them to be twinz
[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks During the past week I've been applying some updates to the OpenSimProfile module based on findings by djphil. I still have one or two items to investigate that he has reported.
[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks I will be looking in to them this coming week.
[11:13] Kayaker Magic: Bill, if I come back here after the meeting with a new version of FS, will the dancing deamons still be here?
[11:13] Bill Blight: the one in the center will be
[11:13] Kayaker Magic: Bring on the Clones!
[11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks Ubit has been busy over the holidays making various code changes.
[11:14] Kayaker Magic: Yay!
[11:15] Sheera.Khan what else could those holidays possibly be good for?
[11:15] Gavin.Hird I have only tested a small sample of them while being busy building viewer
[11:15] Bill Blight: This region is only a couple of commits behind, since he just made a couple right before the meeting
[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks I've been using them to work on some other projects.
[11:15] Sheera.Khan that's really cool, Ubit :-)
[11:17] Sheera Khan: Shall we call that feature officially "Ani-What? " now?
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: well this both could be NPCs.. no diff
[11:17] Bill Blight: other than the fact you can attach these to your avatar
[11:17] Gavin.Hird call it ani-thing
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: now this one on my shoulder is another story
[11:19] Gavin.Hird it is crushing your head Ubit
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: details :)
[11:19] Sheera Khan: I'm just wondering: what happened to Ubit? On FS6ß he looks ok, but on FS5.1.7 he's totally deformed
[11:19] Bill Blight: I know call it AniBits
[11:19] Bill Blight: LOL
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: yeap that does happen
[11:20] Gavin.Hird AniBits is a subset of AniThing
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: for 5.1.7 im wearing the tiny
[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks yes. He is about half-size
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: so all deformed
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: did recover ?
[11:21] Gavin.Hird wear it again please
[11:21] Sheera Khan: not yet :-/
[11:21] Bill Blight: yeah without the AniWhat? code the viewer does not know how to handle that secondary rig and just deforms the avatar
[11:21] Gavin.Hird its got a full Bento skeleton
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: ok can i take it off now ?
[11:23] Gavin.Hird yup
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: ok going relog to fix my app on viewers
[11:24] Sheera Khan: that went fast from not going to do this to there, it's been done ;-)
[11:25] Bill Blight: yeah Sheera, that's what happens when we leave Ubit alone for too long
[11:25] Bill Blight: he does weird things
[11:25] Bill Blight: LOL
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: i may not send this attachments to viewers that do not support it also
[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks A new feature for a new year.
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: actually was mostly done in last day of 2018 :)
[11:26] Sheera Khan: something new to play with ;-)
[11:26] Bill Blight: It's a big feature that we did not have, not sure we needed it, but it will make people happy for about 5 minutes
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: 5min? not sure if that much :)
[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks Right. They will start complaining about some aspect of it asking for additional enhancements to it. ;)
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: well the one on the table could just be a NPCs
[11:27] Gavin.Hird it obviously need some content
[11:27] Gavin.Hird and rigging skills
[11:27] Sheera Khan: it makes me happy to see that it's here - and that will last longer than 5 min ^^
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: so any news ?
[11:28] Bill Blight: well the one in the middle could be an npc, but as is, only taking about 7 lines of code
[11:28] Bill Blight: LSL code
[11:28] Gavin.Hird for the minutes, here again is the link to the new viewer builds
[11:29] Gavin.Hird please test it and you can add comments and such in that forum
[11:29] Gavin.Hird
[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks Thanks, Gavin.
[11:30] Kayaker Magic: Isn't that only for Macs so far?
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: new name ?
[11:30] Gavin.Hird Windows too
[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks I was trying to compile the source but I don't remember how to do that. I'm getting an error from autobuild that I need to figure out.
[11:30] Gavin.Hird only 32-bit build right now as there are some few hundred more commits to go in before it builds 64-bit
[11:30] Gavin.Hird new name
[11:31] Gavin.Hird I could not use Kokua as someone else is using that name for the SL viewer
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: it was kokuaOS :)
[11:31] Gavin.Hird what did you try to compile Andrew?
[11:32] Gavin.Hird even so, it is not right to continue to use that name
[11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks Gavin, the 6.0.1 version of Firestorm code. I have the FS code on my machine.
[11:32] Gavin.Hird I will make a proper build instruction for each arch later this week
[11:32] Gavin.Hird right
[11:33] Gavin.Hird I suppose FS will only build with autobuild 1.1
[11:33] Gavin.Hird this one buidls with autobuild 1
[11:33] Gavin.Hird 1.0
[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks I was looking at the README but it doesn't tell me about how to set the variables it wants set.
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: each viewer uses own tools.. a pain
[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks I have 1.1.7
[11:33] Gavin.Hird as it is easier to handle without all the parameters LL use for their build farm
[11:33] Gavin.Hird I don't have a build farm
[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks Maybe next Christmas, Gavin. :)
[11:34] Gavin.Hird you never know what Santa brings
[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks nods
[11:35] Gavin.Hird one of the things added to the viewer is the ability to display MOTD on teleports
[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks Do we have any other news related to OpenSim development?
[11:35] Gavin.Hird I turned it off for OpenSim
[11:35] Gavin.Hird as it might be annoying seing your home grid MOTD when teleporting outside it
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: you know that Diva as done some work on a viewer
[11:36] Bill Blight flüstert: For those of you not on FS 6 here is what others are seeing ..
[11:36] Bill Blight: 0ffa10d950f133bff4da7870f7a245c0.gif
[11:37] Gavin.Hird the one that does not have support for macOS
[11:37] Sheera Khan: Andrew? I heard about an issue with the OpenSimSearch-module which would be yours I suppose... In OpenSim.ini there are no quotation marks around SearchURL = ""
[11:37] Gavin.Hird not interested
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: now based on Xenko engine since it was not possible to use Unreal due to license issues
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: petty Victoria does not have a undress click
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: err i mean STOP button
[11:38] Bill Blight flüstert: HAHA
[11:38] Gavin.Hird I derendered her
[11:38] Bill Blight: dirty minded Yubit
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: details :p
[11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks Sheera, There are no settings for OpenSimSearch in the stock OpenSim.ini file. The person who wants to use that modules needs to add the required entries.
[11:40] Sheera.Khan well, I just quoted his findings he posted in a forum ...
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: What forum, Sheera?
[11:41] Bill Blight: willing to bet that applies to the metro prepackaged download
[11:41] Sheera.Khan
[11:42] Bill Blight: ohhh
[11:42] Bill Blight: LOL
[11:42] Bill Blight: they are pulling from your Github Andrew
[11:42] Sheera.Khan I thought it might be a bit more convenient if I translate it to english ;-)
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: That would be helpful. I don't speak German.
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: no need to speak, just read :p
[11:43] Gavin.Hird agreed Ubit
[11:43] Sheera.Khan right, I missed that part. It was pulled out of
[11:43] Gavin.Hird I can read reasonably well, speaking would be a disaster
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I can read it but I understand very few words of German. :)
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Quotes around strings may be the norm but don't always seem to be required. If it is seen as a problem I can add the quotes to the README file.
[11:45] Bill Blight: quotes seem to be required if there are special chars in the field
[11:45] Bill Blight: lie // and such
[11:45] Bill Blight: like
[11:45] Sheera.Khan adding the quotes seem to have resolved the issue, so yes, it might be helpful
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll also add the quotes to the README in OpenSimProfile.
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Was there a space in the URL?
[11:47] Sheera.Khan I didn't see any
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: If the lack of quotes caused a problem that sounds almost like something might have changed in parsing ini files. I'm sure I've used it without quotes before.
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: I've updated both README files. I'll push the changes after the meeting.
[11:48] Sheera.Khan The database entries were done nicely without the quotes, but the viewer wouldn't retrieve them, as I understand his post
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: That sounds strange. The viewer doesn't use the URL set in the OpenSim.ini file.
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Is that person trying to use the URL in the Grid Search entry of a viewer? If so, that won't work.
[11:50] Gavin.Hird it is not made for direct use by the viewer
[11:51] Sheera.Khan no, one of the users tried to access the search with FS and it didn't work
[11:51] Sheera.Khan well, it's work in progress ;-)
[11:53] Sheera.Khan they try to figure it out  :-)
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: The Websearch tab doesn't work. By default most viewers tend to point at an SL page for websearch. I don't yet have a PHP file to do the equivalent for the websearch page.
[11:54] Gavin.Hird Actually Kitely's page will work in a viewer
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I was given some code for a websearch page. I haven't gotten around to looking at it. If it works I may include it in to the OpenSimSearch repo.
[11:55] Bill Blight: jOpensim has websearch as well
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, it must use its own search module and database.
[11:56] Bill Blight: yes it does, but it is based on the same opensimsearch module just changed to use it's own db
[11:56] Sheera.Khan ah, btw. another question, maybe more on the viewer side: is the report abuse address hard wired in the viewer? So SL gets all the complaints about misbehaving OS users? *giggles*
[11:56] Gavin.Hird it is
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, ok
[11:56] Gavin.Hird and the latest versions also now will pull categories from SL
[11:57] Sheera.Khan ok - will be interesting for them at times ^^
[11:57] Gavin.Hird it probably will not authenticate on submitting them
[11:57] Gavin.Hird most viewers send them error and crash reports too
[11:57] Gavin.Hird obvioulsy they are not interested in opensim related crashes
[11:58] Sheera.Khan hehehe
[11:58] Gavin.Hird I "think" I have turned that off, but it needs more investigation to get that shit out of the viewer code
[11:58] Gavin.Hird Google Breakpad that is
[11:59] Gavin.Hird LL will now use a paid.for product
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: We are almost at the top of the hour. My cat is now on my lap and has been after attention from me for several minutes. Any last minute items before we wrap up this first meeting of 2019?
[12:00] Selby.Evans I note that voice is not working
[12:00] Kayaker Magic: I guess not!
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Vivox is relocating their servers.
[12:00] Kayaker Magic: Doesn't voice NEVER work in OSGrid?
[12:01] Bill Blight: depends on the regions
[12:01] Gavin.Hird will they upgrade them too then?
[12:01] Sheera.Khan a double negation?
[12:01] Gavin.Hird because they have said they will change to a different more secure protocol
[12:01] Gavin.Hird the one without Linux support
[12:01] Bill Blight: voice has to be configured on a per region basis, if that region does not have a vivox account and configured voice, no voice then ..
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... that sounds like the OS code may need updating soon to support the changes if they do that, Gavin.
[12:02] Gavin.Hird I have taken the client side change on the Mac viewer
[12:03] Gavin.Hird I have held back applying it to the Windows version
[12:03] Sheera.Khan and still no linux version :-(
[12:03] Gavin.Hird no Linux version is the message
[12:04] Gavin.Hird I know NickyP tested using it in Vines on Linux, but it was a mess
[12:04] Sheera.Khan I'd vote for a mumble/murmur or freeswitch module ...
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll try building Firestorm later. I've done it before but I don't remember what I did. The viewers all seem to use non-standard build systems.
[12:04] Gavin.Hird what is a standard build system for the viewer? :-))
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: exactly.
[12:05] Gavin.Hird Windows versions will only build if you use Cygwin
[12:05] Gavin.Hird and VS2013
[12:05] Bill Blight: I'd vote for mumble/murmer as well, it is so small it could even be included ..
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: There has been talk of using that for voice for some time. Perhaps the new viewer being developed will use it.
[12:06] Bill Blight: speaking of that
[12:07] Bill Blight: can we keep any changes that might break current operation to a separate branch concerning the new viewer
[12:07] Selby.Evans Some new viewers are developing with freeswitch in mind
[12:07] Gavin.Hird yeah, that sounds like a completely different project if you ask me
[12:08] Bill Blight: Freeswitch already works with opensim selby ,
[12:08] Bill Blight: or current viewers do
[12:08] Bill Blight: I should say
[12:08] Bill Blight: no "development" needed for that to work, just the knowledge how to setup the server
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I think the new viewer has a long way to go before there is likely to be code changes in OpenSim that would break compatibility with current viewers.
[12:08] Leighton.Marjoram Freeswitch is good but mumble is better imho
[12:09] Bill Blight nods to Leighton
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, Freeswitch is a pain to setup. I did it once. Not quite sure how I managed it. Wasn't able to do it sometime later. Vivox is easy to get going.
[12:09] Bill Blight: pain or not, it does work
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Sure, as long as you can figure out all the settings required to make it work.
[12:09] Bill Blight: and it is not that hard, if you understand it, but like a lot of opensim related things, there is a learning curve
[12:10] Leighton.Marjoram if I remember the new video stuff in Freeswitch 1.6 doesnt work with OS you have to use the 1.4 version. Its tricky as hell and the documentation is difficult if not impossible to follow.
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: The comments in the file don't help that much. Trying to research it gives confusing and often outdated information about how to set it up.
[12:10] Bill Blight shrugs
[12:11] Sheera.Khan It would be cool if someone who managed to set it up correctly would openly document it ;-)
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't tried to use it in many years. Perhaps its gotten easier(?).
[12:11] Gavin.Hird So mumble is about $10 and up per month
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Sheera, one can only hope. :)
[12:11] Sheera.Khan or do ;-)
[12:11] Bill Blight: mumble is free
[12:11] Gavin.Hird server side
[12:11] Gavin.Hird there is a cost
[12:11] Leighton.Marjoram it would be good to have choice of voice in opensim, encrypted would be better. You can install the mumble server yourself
[12:11] Bill Blight: only for hosted
[12:11] Bill Blight: youc an host it yourself
[12:12] Bill Blight: the server software is free
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Right. I was about to say that I thought there was a way to self-host the server software.
[12:12] Bill Blight: and even the source code is available
[12:12] Leighton.Marjoram For therapy use an encrypted voice solution would be amazing
[12:12] Gavin.Hird I only see client download, but ok
[12:12] Bill Blight: the server is called whisper
[12:12] Bill Blight: I think
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Sounds right, Bill.
[12:13] Sheera.Khan wasn't it called murmur?
[12:13] Leighton.Marjoram
[12:13] Bill Blight: murmer yes
[12:13] Bill Blight: and whisper was a fork I think
[12:13] Leighton.Marjoram I can never remember one piece is called mumble and the other part is called murmur
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks nods to Leighton.
[12:14] Bill Blight:
[12:14] Leighton.Marjoram Its very simple to setup just connecting it up to Opensim I have not seen it
[12:14] Bill Blight:
[12:15] Leighton.Marjoram There was some development done a while back which was going to be released but that never happened.
[12:15] Bill Blight: yeah it went from free to 10k by the person developing it
[12:16] Leighton.Marjoram thats right I remember now

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