Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-27

[10:51] Kayaker Magic: Ohh! Nice wings Bill
[10:53] Kayaker Magic: Which animation technique are you using on those wings?
[10:55] Kayaker Magic: Looks like a mesh with an armature.
[10:55] Bill Blight: They are Bento, made in blender with Avastar
[10:56] Kayaker Magic: Ah, so there is an animation file for the wings! Nice.
[10:57] Bill Blight: Yes , I rewrote the AO , for some better animations
[10:57] Kayaker Magic: do you have a flapping animation for when you are flying?
[10:59] Kayaker Magic: YES!
[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Ubit, in the robust.ini files, I find UserAccountsService sometimes spelled UserAccountService. Which is the right way? And should I submit a mantis about this?
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Good catch, Kayaker. I'm not sure if that is a mistake or not.
[11:07] Ubit Umarov: oh?
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I've been working on updating my machine to bigger hard drives so I haven't had a lot of time for OpenSim related activities.
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I have gone through the list of implemented LSL functions and added some that were missing from the list.
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: The next step is to start checking those functions and the other ones not listed as fully implemented to find out what state they are in.
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: well don't ask but HG uses UserAccountsService
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: throw new Exception("Please specify UserAccountsService in HGInventoryService configuration"); for example
[11:13] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: Hi Bernd
[11:14] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: in any case there will be a chat log posted at the end of the session
[11:15] Kayaker Magic: I'm running 0.9.1 Snail Dev and was hoping to see improvements with http, but I just discovered that FireStorm loads all textures and mesh with UDP! Is there anything we can do about that?
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: fs does use http
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: check the settings
[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: file a JIRA
[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and check the settings
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: There are settings that a user can change on FS?
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: some versions of alchemy do not, because of a typo they had
[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: see developer menu
[11:17] Arielle Popstar: Preferences Graphics Rendering
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: check http textures
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: and inventory
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: baked textures do use udp
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: it seems
[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: speaking of baked textures
[11:18] Kayaker Magic: So each user can request http, but UDP is the default. So if a bunch of HG visitors arrive that have NOT selected http, my region bogs down anyway.
[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I had a visitor using my public sandbox and noticed she was generating a storm of bake requests
[11:19] Arielle Popstar: think it is default
[11:19] Arielle Popstar: http
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: by default fs uses http if i remember
[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I went and asked which viewer she used and it was FS
[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: she was working on mesh outfits and a mesh body
[11:19] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: we have seen that Gavin, traced to an alpha
[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: today when I was doing some final testing of the animesh merge
[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I suddenly detected the same with my avatar
[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and what triggered it was an alpha that hid the entire body
[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: storm or rebake requests
[11:20] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: we replaced the alpha and problem went away
[11:20] Arielle Popstar: oh
[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as soon as you removed the alpha it went away
[11:20] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: bit of a killer
[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what did you replace it with?
[11:21] Arielle Popstar: wonder if that is why on Lumiya i so often see the black alpha texture on my avi
[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just a fresh alpha?
[11:21] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: another alpha
[11:21] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: yes
[11:21] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: very interesting, we had a similar event at Metropolis ...
[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: let me try that
[11:21] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: First saw with avi from japan grid
[11:21] Arielle Popstar: it gets corrupted then?
[11:22] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: we did not look further Arielle
[11:22] Bill Blight: So most likely something got corrupt when it hit the cache and it just kept trying to render/cache it, something to keep an eye on
[11:22] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I am supprise no one else has seen this
[11:22] Arielle Popstar: wonder if through hypergrid
[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the visitor was coming in via hypergrid
[11:22] Bill Blight: I have seen it once in a while, I just chalked it up to a corrupt texture
[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: me obviously direct connect
[11:23] Arielle Popstar: but possible use the alpha on a previous HG jump?
[11:23] Bill Blight: Shite does occasionally happpen
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I usually don't hop around with mesh bodies
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: alpha texture with a uuid not known to grid ?
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so no need to hide the full avatar
[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no indication of that
[11:24] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: no details at hand but we did retain the offending items, possible to do more analysis
[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the only thing that happened for the visitor was that she could not load some texture because of a UUID clash
[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have never seen that before
[11:25] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: 1st saw with a HG safari :)
[11:25] Arielle Popstar: supposed to be highly unlikely
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Indeed.
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: I know when I switch between grids I occasionally have to clear my viewer cache to get things to rez or be textured properly. I don't know what causes that. I wouldn't expect it to be UUID conflicts.
[11:27] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: UUID is a non starter IMO
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: a typo on mantis about possible typo kayaker
[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: of course the error message did not say which UUID it was
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: :p
[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so not easy to find
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: it was not on region.ini kayaker
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: The error messages are often not that helpful in identifying what texture or object is causing a problem.
[11:28] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: WE began to trace using visual studio, then other things happened
[11:29] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: if time this week we will look again
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: and it is not a typo, code is coerent with the ini file
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: ewll can be.. but coerent
[11:30] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: @Gavin. When the viewer loses focus, click on another window, the frame rate drops. Is that a viewer function?
[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[11:30] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: kk
[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it yields
[11:30] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: understandable
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: why burn gpu if not looking ?
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: a lot more programs should had that
[11:31] Bill Blight: foreground vs background process
[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or you wan to do something else in the foreground
[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it tries to drop it down to about 15 fps
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: some keep rendering full speed, minimized
[11:32] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: some users report that they have low frame rates. wondered if they had considered frame change
[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some users DO have low frame rates
[11:33] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: not in our labs gavin
[11:33] Bill Blight: Trying to run Ultra on Intel graphics for instance
[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: there is also a option to limit viewer fps
[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: newer LL code will not go over 60 fps
[11:34] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Not a problem, just heads up to grid operators
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: not much point havign 100fps on a 60hz monitor
[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly
[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or do too much work so the rest of the system cannot update the scene properly
[11:35] Bill Blight: People need to learn the difference between something the server can control on FPS and Viewer Side Lag, they are different
[11:35] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: yeah, like run steam concurrently :)
[11:36] Bill Blight: does not matter how good and fast the server is , if you are dumping billions of tris to the viewer the viewer is going to suffer ..
[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have finished merging Animesh into the viewer code 2 hours ago, and nothing BAD happens on OpenSim
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: My current frame rate isn't that high. Best frame rate I got was on an older graphics card.
[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: using that viewer build now
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, Which viewer are you working on?
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: if you did it right it is disabled gavin :)
[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the mac version of KokuaOS
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: region must tell viewer to enable it
[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, but it is not disabled
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I'll check whether I have source for the Kokua browser checked out.
[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it must be tested properly on SL too
[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: There are two new builds for Windows
[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: with and without RLV
[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they will eventually get the animesh code too
[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but Bento first
[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Builds are here for testing https://bitbucket.org/dayturn/kokua-opensim/downloads/
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know much about Mercurial. My copy of the Kokua viewer is from May with no available updates since then.
[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you use the wrong repository
[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://bitbucket.org/dayturn/kokua-opensim/commits/all
[11:41] Bill Blight is having Deja vu
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I have code from https://bitbucket.org/dayturn/kokua-opensim
[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure
[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just do a hg pull -u
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Thanks. That looks better.
[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: YW
[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I added Islandz Virtual World to the default grid list
[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it relplace Inworldz
[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: viewer works there too
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Just a reminder. We are about a week and a half away from this years OSCC. Don't forget to register if you plan on attending the event.
[11:44] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: @gavin, noticed here and other places, that several visitors textures do no appear until I point the mouse pointer at them?
[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it happens to varying degree
[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: also in SL
[11:45] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: ok, good to know
[11:45] Arielle Popstar: see that on system avatars a lot
[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it has to do with how the viewer / scene prioritize updates
[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: particularly when entering a scene
[11:46] Bill Blight: and has as much to do with the patience of the person using the viewer ... hehehe
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are a lot of updates to be applied to the viewer that improves it
[11:46] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: well gavin had been grey since he arrived, that endurance?
[11:47] Arielle Popstar: actually i have noted the unrezzed textures will stay that way for long periods until mouse is pointed to them
[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: refresh your scene
[11:47] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I normally zoom in on the person and the textures come in (I did that with Gavin earlier)
[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I rebaked
[11:47] Arielle Popstar: or r-click and do teex refresh
[11:47] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: if known ok, can advise users.
[11:47] Arielle Popstar: tex^
[11:48] Arielle Popstar: some avatars will stay a cloud until they manually rebake
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: You can also try the pie menu. Right click avatar/object -> more -> more -> more -> Render -> Fully.
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: There is also More -> More -> Tex Refresh.
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: some pray sometimes works
[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: BTW I removed the Pie menu completely
[11:49] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: lol
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: No more right clicking things?
[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only right clicking menus
[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no pie
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: What replaces the features that were in the pie menus?
[11:49] Bill Blight: I like pie
[11:49] Kayaker Magic: r-click->tex_refresh is only available on objects, not avatars.
[11:49] Arielle Popstar: what ui scaling factor will it handle?
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: i prefer pizza
[11:50] Kayaker Magic: pizzz pie
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Its a type of pie.
[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when all the code updates are in it will handle up to 4
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: On the other hand, people who like math prefer pi. :)
[11:50] Bill Blight: tex refresh is not just on objects
[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: tex refresh is for the scene
[11:51] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I have show textures and texture refresh on the r click menu for avatars using FS
[11:51] Bill Blight: right click and avatar More>more>tex refresh
[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some have it as refresh scene
[11:51] Kayaker Magic: But I only see tex refresh when I r-click on an object, nothing else.
[11:51] Kayaker Magic: I am on FS.
[11:52] Bill Blight: I am as well and just did your avatar
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin was white for me when he first arrived but at some point his textures did load.
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: I didn't have to force them to load/render.
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because I rebaked
[11:52] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I am as well and have a fair few options on right click on avatars
[11:52] Arielle Popstar: he rebaked while you were here i think
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does anyone see me as grey still?
[11:53] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: no
[11:53] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: nope
[11:53] Kayaker Magic: Not me
[11:53] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: no
[11:53] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: lovely sweater
[11:53] Arielle Popstar: fine for me
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have one in RL too
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is called a Marius sweater
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I wonder if there would be a market for ugly Christmas sweaters in grids. :)
[11:53] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I see no one as grey
[11:54] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I trust the hair is by design?
[11:54] Bill Blight: I didn't even see Gavin as grey when he first got here
[11:54] Kayaker Magic: Hair? what hair?
[11:54] Arielle Popstar: he was white for me in FS
[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: my hair is for minimum lag, haha
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see any hair on Gavin except for a bit of facial hair.
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Five minutes before the hour. Any other topic(s) for today before we wrap things up?
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: I need to do some more updates to the OSSL wiki because Ubit has added some new functions.