Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-25

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[10:49] Ubit Umarov: this is on master ode.dll or the test one ?
[10:50] Bill Blight: test one
[10:51] Ubit Umarov: ok
[10:51] Ubit Umarov: what cpu is this one ?
[10:52] Bill Blight: let me check either xeon or opteron
[10:52] Ubit Umarov: :)
[10:52] Bill Blight: AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 4334
[10:52] Ubit Umarov: well whatever that is lol
[11:03] Kayaker Magic: I had trouble logging on this morning, anybody else have to try several times?
[11:03] Bill Blight: nope
[11:04] Bill Blight: got right in
[11:04] Andrew.Hellershanks I had no problem when I went to login here just now.
[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Logging directly into OSG on my own land didn't work, crashed the viewer. Had to start in Lsba Plaza. Perhaps my server is down :(
[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks What would you like to talk about today?
[11:07] Bill Blight: What I'd like to talk about and what is going in the log, might be two different things .. :P
[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks hehe
[11:07] Kayaker Magic: I have a question:
[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks I can qualify my question by adding in it should be OpenSim related.
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: I went to an OSGrid benifit event yesterday and saw that it was running 0.9.1 Snail Dev
[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks Go ahead, Kayaker.
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: Is OSGrid switching to master now? I'd be happy to hear that it is getting lots of testing.
[11:09] Bill Blight: Last I heard they were switching to master
[11:09] Kayaker Magic: Good news!
[11:10] Bill Blight: Testing and assisting with development is still in the mission statement of OSGRID so glad to see it being adhered to now ..
[11:11] Kayaker Magic: My question is: If you were running a grid on a version of master from January (before the merge with http tests) would it be wise to upgrade and run your grid on a recent version of master (after http tests merge)?
[11:11] Bill Blight: my grid has run on httptests since it came out , so my answer would be yes
[11:11] Bill Blight: but that is just me
[11:12] Kayaker Magic: How big is your grid Bill?
[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks Ubit, What is the difference (if any) between code identifying as "0.9.1 Snail Dev" and the code on the master branch?
[11:12] Bill Blight: people wise not big, but we get 20 to 30 people at events
[11:12] Kayaker Magic: TX Bill, that is a good data point.
[11:13] Arielle.Popstar what was the upgrade path you used?
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: master is 0.91 dev snail
[11:13] Kayaker Magic: or snail dev
[11:13] Kayaker Magic: :)
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: well is a snail :)
[11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks Kayaker, Ubit's reply means osgrid is already on master.
[11:14] Arielle.Popstar that refers to its loading slowness?
[11:14] Bill Blight: I have been running 9x since it was released so I had no upgrade path, because there really is not one.
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: yes osg is on master, commit blabla ( not necessary recent one )
[11:14] Bill Blight: upgrading from .8x to .9x is as simple as actually reading the directions and looking at the changes to the INI's
[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks Arielle, hehe. I think it was a reference to Ubit being slow to work on the code due to his being busy with other work.
[11:15] Arielle.Popstar oh :)
[11:15] Bill Blight: yes snail dev is a direct reference to the pace at which Ubit moves ... LOL
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: Well, to upgrade from 0.9.1 pre-snail to 0.9.1 post-snail there were difficult changes to the ini files (that Bill helped me with, Thanks!)
[11:16] Arielle.Popstar seems appropriate in other regards too
[11:16] Ubit Umarov kicks bill
[11:17] Bill Blight: HAHA
[11:17] Bill Blight: I'm wearing my Ubit Shield today
[11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks Kayaker, what problems did you have pre and post re: the ini files?
[11:17] Kayaker Magic: An upgrade path to ask is: Can I upgrade my regions one at a time to Snail while robust is running pre-snail?
[11:17] Bill Blight: yes
[11:17] Kayaker Magic: Can I upgrade robust to post-snail while my regions are running pre-snail?
[11:17] Bill Blight: best to upgraid robust first
[11:18] Gavin.Hird I think so too
[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks I was going to suggest that too, Bill.
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: older robust 0.82 will have issues
[11:18] Bill Blight: yeppers
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: will not find regions...
[11:18] Kayaker Magic: Hmm, so upgrading to post-snail Robust would have been one way to solve the memory leak problem!
[11:18] Bill Blight: local and remote neighbor service was combined into a single service, old robust does not understand that I think ..
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: funny issues like crossings working on one direction, not on other etc
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: ( var regions mainly )
[11:19] Kayaker Magic: Crossing between pre and post snail versions of 0.9 will work fine?
[11:19] Arielle.Popstar suppose not possible to revert?
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: they should kayaker
[11:20] Arielle.Popstar is there database changes to pre and post?
[11:20] Arielle.Popstar as in it wont be possible to revert?
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: since when revert was a supported feature? what a question..
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: if you want to revert, do backups, as always
[11:21] Arielle.Popstar since breakage and undocumented features moving to a new code
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: well backups BEFORE upgrading LOL
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: ( yes.. some did it after :p )
[11:22] Arielle.Popstar which dont work well
[11:22] Bill Blight: what breakage?
[11:22] Arielle.Popstar i heard from an Osgrid admin that there are now throttles in the robust too?
[11:22] Bill Blight: I've yet to see anything that is not user generated actually be "broken"
[11:23] Arielle.Popstar is that true?
[11:23] Arielle.Popstar i didnt see any commits that hinted at that but there was a melanie merge....
[11:23] Gavin.Hird I have not really seen anything break except that bitmask thing that was fixed
[11:24] Bill Blight: That latest Mel Merge was just her merging to her tree, the merge commits are confusing
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: some merges on git are just git things.. no actual code changes
[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks Arielle, commit messages don't tell the whole story about changes made. For full details you need to look at the actual code changes that were made.
[11:24] Arielle.Popstar never know with Melanie
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: ( some are.. we need to read the details as Bill tells )
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: but last sign merge was httptests into master
[11:25] Arielle.Popstar so is it true there are now additional throttles in the robust  ?
[11:25] Bill Blight: sometimes the commits look like a merge TO master when actually it is a merge to a master of a different tree ..
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: some merges like that from mel as her jsut updating her local copy
[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks Ubit, Did you see Arielle's question about throttles in Robust?
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: that depends on the grid, some grids do add extrenal things that do throttles ( like osgrid does )
[11:27] Arielle.Popstar osgrid added them?
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: external..
[11:28] Arielle.Popstar shouldnt throttles in the master be optional then?
[11:28] Bill Blight: had 20 avatars at my event on sunday 10 of them were wearing mesh bodies and no one had rezzing issues, the throttles are not an issue, they just prevent ONE avatar from causing everyone on the sim to lag
[11:29] Arielle.Popstar next time you have such an event Bill, invite me
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: assuming you are welcome
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: hihihihi
[11:29] Arielle.Popstar Tampa of zeta tried to claim the same and yet when i visited his grid saw it took 8 minutes to load 5 avi's
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: core throttling is not as extensive as real needs
[11:30] Arielle.Popstar and people thre mentioned it was a problem
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: so yeah some grids do add external throttles
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: mb you should consider that the issue is at your side??
[11:31] Bill Blight: Yes people just latched onto the throttles as another excuse to hate on 9x
[11:31] Arielle.Popstar its not Ubit
[11:31] Arielle.Popstar no Bill
[11:31] Arielle.Popstar i like .9
[11:31] Bill Blight: yes Arielle
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: well no one reports 8 minutes to rez 5 avatars
[11:31] Arielle.Popstar i dont like throttles in .9
l[11:31] Arielle.Popstar i seen lots who do
[11:31] Arielle.Popstar you just go deaf when they say it
[11:31] Bill Blight: I've seen lots who don't
[11:31] Arielle.Popstar other people try to be nice
[11:31] Arielle.Popstar i forget about that
[11:32] Arielle.Popstar i suspect a backdoor that circumvents throttle code for admins too
[11:32] Bill Blight: hahaha
[11:32] Bill Blight: bullshit
[11:33] Bill Blight: no such thing
[11:33] Gavin.Hird This is not Microsoft
[11:33] Arielle.Popstar how do you know?
[11:33] Arielle.Popstar you are admin
[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks Arielle, Are any of the people who feel there are throttles slowing things down reporting the problems by filing bug reports?
[11:33] Bill Blight: I have my head in the code too
[11:33] Arielle.Popstar you test with non admin accounts?
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: well waste of time bill, Arielle suspections are facts for her
[11:33] Bill Blight: yes
[11:33] Bill Blight: all the time
[11:33] Arielle.Popstar from remote locations?
[11:33] Bill Blight: yep
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: the fact the code is there for all to see is a minor detail :p
[11:34] Arielle.Popstar Ubit i am trying to determine why there is such a difference in loading times for different people
[11:34] Bill Blight: I've been a networking guy for 25 years , I know how to collect data and perform tests, and I cannot get any results that equal all these , "The Sky Is Falling" claims
[11:34] Arielle.Popstar majority of us cant read it aside from the fact it is well known to be a spagetting bowl of code
[11:35] Kayaker Magic: Does anybody know if OSGrid is running pre-snail or post-snail robust?
[11:35] Gavin.Hird like in SL it has to do with a) what they are wearing b) the viewer c) their network connection d) the distance from the asset server
[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, check the hash code in the About box.
[11:35] Bill Blight: but in our case you have to add in, the round trip to the home asset server
[11:35] Gavin.Hird e) how much stuff there is in the scene tha
[11:35] Bill Blight: if on the HG
[11:36] Gavin.Hird scene that also needs to load*
[11:36] Arielle Popstar: instead of poooh poohing everyone who doesnt have the same experience, why not look into it/
[11:36] Arielle Popstar: are you afraid its not as good as you like to think it is?
[11:36] Bill Blight: didn't I just say I have ran tests and can't make it do it??? You can not believe me or not, that is your issue
[11:37] Arielle Popstar: invite me over then when you have a few residents gathered on a typical region
[11:37] Bill Blight: you are on this region
[11:37] Arielle Popstar: most here are system avi's
[11:38] Arielle Popstar: it only happens with mesh avatars
[11:38] Gavin.Hird are you wearing a mesh avatar right now Arielle?
[11:38] Arielle Popstar: yes
[11:39] Sheera.Khan Hmmm, would it be an option if I bring some Mesh Avas and we all switch to them for a test?
[11:39] Arielle Popstar: any of you can test by going to the event plaza after this meeting and seeing how long it takes for all avatars to fully rezz
[11:39] Gavin.Hird The number of tris on you avatar is just astonishing
[11:40] Arielle Popstar: complexity of 131k
[11:40] Bill Blight: here is the other thing to consider ... take the throttles out completely , and let every mesh avatar steal the bandwidth from everyone on the sim when they land and make everybody lag instead of the mesh just loading slower, that makes you an asshole if that is what you would prefer ..
[11:40] Gavin.Hird so no wonder it is slow to load
[11:40] Kayaker Magic: I'm looking at the about info from Firestorm, it tells me the region server version and hash, but says nothing about the robust version
[11:40] Arielle Popstar: every mesh avi loads slow Gavin
[11:41] Arielle Popstar: besides that i should see myself from cache
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: yeah Gavin some ppl wants to use huge meshs, then want the full resources of servers just for them..
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: waste of time this talk
[11:41] Bill Blight: yep
[11:41] Bill Blight: entitlement
[11:41] Bill Blight: and that is fine on their home servers, but not when visiting others
[11:41] Arielle Popstar: and some want to run about in system avi's and then without proper testing claim that Opensim works good with mesh
[11:41] Gavin.Hird your hair alone is a over 100 elements of 1152 tris alone
[11:42] Arielle Popstar: opensim should be capable of handeling that Gavin
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, you can't see the Robust version from inworld.
[11:42] Bill Blight: Give it up Gavin, people who are into vanity don't care how hard their avie makes it on others
[11:42] Bill Blight: there is a reason that even SL is a lag fest with a bunch of mesh avies
[11:42] Arielle Popstar: what is the difference in bandwidth between a fully loaded prim haired system avi and a mesh one?
[11:42] Gavin.Hird I gave it up when sculpts was introduced
[11:42] Gavin.Hird hehe
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: Gavin we are talking to someone that tells everyone to use bullet meshmerizer on ubOde
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: sorry.. just plain waste of time..
[11:43] Kayaker Magic: sculpts were a hack
[11:43] Arielle Popstar: yes works good according to my testing for over a year
[11:43] Gavin.Hird hack, with a lots of tris to render
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: yeah,, no coments
[11:44] Arielle Popstar: ubodemeshmerizer is unnecessary
[11:44] Bill Blight: so we are to believe your testing, but you choose not to listen to the testing of others
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: well any real issue to talk about ?
[11:44] Arielle Popstar: ubit has never come up with a reason or test that proves me wrong
[11:45] Kayaker Magic: Migration to snail dev is a real issue! I like .9 and want to migrate!
[11:45] Arielle Popstar: slow loading avatars is the single biggest issue opensim faces atm
[11:45] Bill Blight: slow loading heavy mesh avatars
[11:45] Bill Blight: call it what it is
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: what issue kayaker ?
[11:45] Gavin.Hird With avatars like yours Arielle, it is actually not OpenSim as such that slows down, but your viewer
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: just the usual pain.. change inis like by line
[11:46] Bill Blight: yes Kay, that is the pain of it mostly
[11:46] Kayaker Magic: The questions I already asked about migrating servers first and robust later.
[11:46] Gavin.Hird there are limits for how much new mesh it can render and texture per frame
[11:46] Bill Blight: I'd do robust first
[11:46] Bill Blight: safer
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: yes, I thought we already established that.
[11:46] Gavin.Hird so it takes a while for the viewer to build up the scene even if it could load everything superfast from the server
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: yep robust should be safer, but don't see issues if last
[11:47] Kayaker Magic: But on a working grid, swapping robust has the potential of bringing everyone down, while one server only annoys a subset.
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: ( i meant robust first )
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: ( and only on this case.. previus 0.9 to snail )
[11:47] Arielle Popstar: Gavin, why is mine and others eperiences totally different from Master code vs Nani's modified code that removes the throttles?
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, Robust starts up quickly. The impact on a grid from rebooting (to change) Robust is minimal if it is even noticed at all.
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: standard procedure should be both at same time :)
[11:48] Bill Blight: because you guys don't care if you make everyone on the sim lag Arielle ..
[11:48] Gavin.Hird Does Nani's use the same asset server?
[11:48] Arielle Popstar: everyone rezzes fast Bill
[11:48] Arielle Popstar: it doesnt make anyone lag
[11:48] Sheera.Khan hmmm, would there be a db migration involved in swapping ROBUST to a newer version?
[11:48] Bill Blight: rezzes does not equal doing something
[11:49] Sheera.Khan then it might be noticable ^^
[11:49] Bill Blight: try to be driving a vehicle or running or border crossing
[11:49] Arielle Popstar: have you tried Nani's code Bill?
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: i really don't remember, but any db changes on snal should be minimal
[11:49] Arielle Popstar: or allowed your residents to test it?
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Sheera, Only if there was a DB migration. I don't recall any DB changes between pre and post snail
[11:49] Bill Blight: my residents don't complain
[11:49] Gavin.Hird where is the repository Arielle?
[11:49] Bill Blight: I have never gotten a complaint about mesh rezzing
[11:50] Gavin.Hird and does the test use the same asset /robust server as
[11:50] Bill Blight: Haycinth has been to some of our events, and she does not complain either
[11:50] Gavin.Hird in both cases*
[11:50] Arielle Popstar:
[11:51] Gavin.Hird ok, thanks
[11:52] Kayaker Magic: What are the Nani changes?
[11:52] Arielle Popstar: throttle code removed/circumvented to begin with
[11:53] Arielle Popstar: other tweaks as far as threading is cocerned
[11:53] Arielle Popstar: check at kaniva regions in osgrid
[11:54] Arielle Popstar: Bill, are you running stock master?
[11:55] Bill Blight: stock enough, only some LSL changes testing the new llName2Key functions
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Five minutes before the top of the hour. Any other OS topic for today?
[11:55] Bill Blight: here anyway
[11:55] Bill Blight: but no changes to the mesh code on my grid
[11:55] Arielle Popstar: ok asked Hy and she said her experience at your place was better than average
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: hmm forgot to look to that patch, it is stable now ?
[11:56] Bill Blight: works fine
[11:56] Gavin.Hird From the "big grid", SL are probably going to release Axon this week - that is animated mesh
[11:56] Bill Blight: both llName2Key and llRequestUserData
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: when i looked ppl was changing i think
[11:56] Arielle Popstar: but you run on beefy servers etc with good networks
[11:56] Bill Blight: it is done now
[11:56] Bill Blight: the name2key stuff
[11:57] Arielle Popstar: and a admin for 25 years
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: hmm not sure we should try animesh suport
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: we do have npcs
[11:57] Gavin.Hird because you can animate any object with it
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, when did LL add those new functions?
[11:57] Bill Blight: they are not new
[11:57] Bill Blight: they are old functions
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: yeah been in testing for ages
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, why did you say they were new?
[11:58] Bill Blight: we just had os versions of them
[11:58] Bill Blight: they are new to us
[11:58] Bill Blight: we did not have them
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: hmm ? cross talk ? :)
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: ( i was talking about animesh )
[11:58] Bill Blight: (yes cross talk)
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: those lsl i will look the the patchs on mantis
[11:59] Gavin.Hird one example - a stupidly simple rig of 5 bones is sufficient to animate a bird like a chicken
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, what changes have you made re: llName2Key and llRequestUserData?
[12:00] Bill Blight: I did not make changes
[12:00] Bill Blight: they never existed here before
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: [11:55] Bill Blight: stock enough, only some LSL changes testing the new llName2Key functions
[12:00] Bill Blight: Madarinka and Mewtwo started it , I just helped test and tweak it
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: its patchs submited on mantis andrew
[12:00] Bill Blight:
[12:01] Bill Blight:
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I'm just puzzled by the fact that those LL functions are old but they are still new to us.
[12:01] Bill Blight: we never implemented them because we had a ossl function that did the same thing, I am guessing
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: i suppose the last one is the one valid ? :)
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: or they are incremental ?
[12:02] Bill Blight: one of those mantis is llName2Key ther other is llRequestUserData
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: hmm we should not allow incremental on same mantis issue
[12:02] Bill Blight: the last patch on each is the good one
[12:02] Kayaker Magic: I thought those two were already working here!
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: The wiki page stating the state of implementation of LSL functions is probably out of date.
[12:02] Bill Blight: no they did not work
[12:03] Bill Blight: llKey2Name worked but not llName2Key
[12:03] Bill Blight: we have osAvatarName2Key
[12:04] Kayaker Magic: Ah yes, llName2Key is fairly recent in SL, I recall everyone used hacks to get that information in the past. External servers, etc.
[12:04] Gavin.Hird for script compatibility it is good to have as many LSL functions working as possible
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, there was a time when you had to call out to an external web page to do the look up.
[12:05] Kayaker Magic: Right, I remember those days.
[12:05] Gavin.Hird I remember that
[12:06] Kayaker Magic: And I also recall llName2Key is asynchronous while osAvatarName2Key is synchronous so it was threat level HIGH
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm a little surprised by us not having the llName2Key. The wiki page for the SL function was added in 2011.
[12:08] Bill Blight: there is a test box for it sitting out side, let me grab it ..
[12:08] Kayaker Magic: I for one never noticed when SL added llName2Key. I worked around it before then and forgot about the issue.
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[12:08] llName2Key test flüstert:

Resident: Gavin Hird doesn't exist in the scene.

[12:08] Ubit Umarov: lol
[12:08] Bill Blight: you have to use HG name
[12:09] Bill Blight: full hg name
[12:09] Kayaker Magic: Has it really been 7 years? Where has the time gone?
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I had set up a PHP page to do the look up and then there was the OSSL function that came along. I had forgotten about it. I thought we were at a point that all LSL functions were supported (although, not all fully).
[12:09] Bill Blight: don't have it showing the actual keys
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: now i remember why i did delay checking the patch :)
[12:09] Bill Blight: just testin gif they get them
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Hah. It doesn't trim trailing whitespace before doing the lookup.
[12:10] Bill Blight: no it doesn't
[12:11] Bill Blight: it does exact string match
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: ( you are testing a submited patch, accepted code may be diferent ..)
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Is that a problem with the implementation of llName2Key or in the script that calls the LSL function?
[12:11] Bill Blight: yes
[12:11] Bill Blight: this is the mantis patch
[12:11] Bill Blight: not accepted code
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: ( not rejected either just in queue to analises )
[12:12] Bill Blight: Most likely both Andrew
[12:12] Bill Blight: personally don't think there should be string trim on the function, make people actually do it right
[12:12] Bill Blight: LOL
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: i do remember got confused with all those string checks :)
[12:13] Bill Blight: yes
[12:13] Bill Blight: it is much simpler now
[12:13] Bill Blight: look at the current patch
[12:13] Bill Blight: slimmed down a LOT
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: and will get a delay :p
[12:13] Bill Blight: which I will promptly remove
[12:14] Bill Blight: :P
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, I think I just remembered one of the differences between the LSL function and the os one. With the LSL one the avatar whose key you need must be in the scene. IIRC, the OSSL function returns the key even when the avatar isn't in th region.
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: yeah delays on those :p
[12:14] Bill Blight: llRequestUserKey works that way
[12:14] Bill Blight: it uses the dataserver event
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: hmm not sure the lsl one should suport hg...
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: need to think a bit
[12:16] Bill Blight: why should it not
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: The LSL wiki page says case is ignored. The patch will need some minor changes.
[12:16] Bill Blight: HG is part of our ecosystem
[12:16] Bill Blight: case is ignored on the patch
[12:17] Bill Blight: look at the response to your query
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: i do not want the lsl to go out to grid
[12:17] Bill Blight: [12:10] llName2Key test: Andrew Hellershanks: Works
[12:10] llName2Key test: andrew hellershanks: Works
[12:10] llName2Key test: Andrew.Hellershanks: Works
[12:10] llName2Key test: andrew.hellershanks: Works
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. The 'true' argument must mean to ignore case.
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: but ill see it
[12:17] Arielle Popstar: Hg should be the standard, not grid mode
[12:19] Arielle Popstar: I may be a pain in the ass in these meetings but remember I want the same thing as everyone here: a better Opensim experience. You all tend to look at it from a technical standpoint whereas I look at it from a community/resident one. That can sometimes appear conflicting and I am sorry for that but long term, if it doesnt work well for the residents, you will be just doing a project noone will use.
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I was wondering why there is HomeURI and GatekeeperURI in [Hypergrid] located in GridCommon.ini but they are commented out in that file. Would it make more sense to have them uncommented and located in GridHypergrid.ini instead?
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: The default values (if uncommented) are obtained by use of constants.
[12:20] Kayaker Magic: +1 Arielle
[12:21] Bill Blight: Don't disagree with your sentiment Arielle, but at the same time, I choose not to let the others on my sim lag because a subset of users that are in love with mesh avatars, cause those that are not to lag
[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, I understand that. I've been a pain about some issues on projects in the past and eventually people realized it was something that needed fixing and it got fixed.
[12:21] Bill Blight: that is my stand on it
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Sometimes being the squeaky wheel works.
[12:22] Arielle Popstar: appreciated Bill but in our testing of the unthrottled code noone has found any lag

[12:23] Bill Blight: do you fly fast vehicles, or run a lot or do a lot of common things like that in your testing?
[12:23] Bill Blight: or do you just walk and dance?
[12:23] Arielle Popstar: no i dont Bill
[12:23] Arielle Popstar: i look at it from a community event stand point
[12:23] Arielle Popstar: not a vehicular one
[12:23] Bill Blight: That is not a good test if you don't test many conditions that can occur on the region
[12:24] Arielle Popstar: events are an important part too
[12:24] Bill Blight: you have to test with other activities going on on the region
[12:24] Sheera.Khan could there be different optmization settings for different kinds of usage maybe?
[12:24] Arielle Popstar: which then may lead to a need to make the throttles optional per region
[12:24] Bill Blight: Just showing up to dance and stand around is not the only thing Opensimulator is used for
[12:25] Arielle Popstar: its not but vehicles arent either
[12:25] Bill Blight: no but you should test all of those, and the throttles come to a good happy medium if you have both going on, others don't lag while some take longer to rez , it is called respecting everyone on the sim , not just one class
[12:26] Bill Blight: I should say others don't lag as bad, because it does still cause some
[12:26] Arielle Popstar: optional throttles is likely the best solution
[12:27] Andrew Hellershanks: I suspect if it was optional a lot of people would just disable them without knowing why the throttles existed.
[12:27] Bill Blight: And didn't someone do that and bring Metro down at one time, because they removed all throttles on their attached regions?
[12:28] Sheera.Khan we have so many options to choose from... would an additional option harm anyone? Just set it to "the right thing" per default and let the sim owner decide ...
[12:28] Arielle Popstar: yes
[12:28] Arielle Popstar: i agree Sheera
[12:28] Arielle Popstar: i find vehicular sims to be a fairly small minority
[12:28] Arielle Popstar: should code be geared to it onl;y?
[12:28] Sheera.Khan the grid owner always has the means to throttle at the grid services
[12:28] Bill Blight: try 300 attached regions with NO throttles
[12:29] Arielle Popstar: well there is an event at The Almost Islands
[12:29] Arielle Popstar: I invite you to come and look
[12:29] Bill Blight: never said to that ONLY said it needs to be fair
[12:29] Arielle Popstar: nods
[12:30] Arielle Popstar: anyway i am off to the event
[12:30] Arielle Popstar: thx for hosting the meeting Andrew and Bill
[12:30] Arielle Popstar: and thx Ubit for coming
[12:30] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:30] Andrew Hellershanks: yw, Arielle. Have fun at your event.
[12:31] Arielle Popstar: and Sheera for logging and posting the log  :)
[12:31] Andrew Hellershanks: We are half hour past the hour mark. Any last minute items before I call this meeting one to a close?
[12:32] Sheera.Khan you're welcome :-)
[12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh. Just us four left. All righty then, that is this meeting done and dusted. See you next week.
[12:32] Bill Blight: no more log
[12:32] Bill Blight: no loggy
[12:33] Bill Blight: OMG I want to get out the machete and the hockey mask ..
[12:33] Andrew Hellershanks: I get to go back to work on some ini files. Oh, joy. :P
[12:33] Sheera.Khan ok, log closed ^^

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