Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-11

[11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I have updated a few web pages in the OS Wiki regarding OSSL functions. I have more information to add. I realized that there was no indication in some of the more recently added OSSL functions as to which version of OS added them.
[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: That's the only bit of news I have. Anyone else have something for todays meeting?
[11:15] Kayaker Magic: The debacle with InWorldz makes me watch how slow the SL LSL Wiki page is and wonder how long that will stay up for us.
[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: There is another wiki page with information on LSL functions.
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: There is that independent LSL Wiki page, but it is way out of date.
[11:19] Kayaker Magic: In the last week, the only OpenSim test I tried was to switch a region to Yengine. I could not get it to work at all.
[11:19] Kayaker Magic: Scripts would compile but never run.
[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Oh. There is one other bit of news I can mention. I changed the Http_Server.dll file on a grid that had a memory leak to the 0.8.2 version and Robust is no longer leaking memory AFAICT.
[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Anyway, Ubit's commit "fix script secure llhttlrequest" significantly reduced rubber-banding on region crossings
[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: at least on my sims
[11:20] Kayaker Magic: What do you have to do to turn YEngine on? I just uncommented the line to select that script engine.
[11:20] Bill Blight: Andrew did test the fix Ubit put out for that or just opt to go back to the older version?
[11:22] Bill Blight: You have to swap the default script engine line out then enable YEngine in the YEngine section, and disable XEngine in the XEngine section
[11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, there is the DefaultScriptEngine setting in [Startup] that you should change to YEngine. You also need to change Enabled to true in [YEngine].
[11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill was faster than me. :)
[11:22] Kayaker Magic: Ah, don't recall doing the Enabled in YEngine.
[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, the grid was running the 0.9.1 version mentioned in the recent email so I used the DLL file suggested.
[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Anyone else have other OS topics for today?
[11:25] Kayaker Magic: The robust memory leak is fixed!
[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I can confirm that
[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I haven't tried the latest code in git master to see if there is any leak.
[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but it got slower, and fix script secure llhttlrequest recovered the speed
[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, good to know. ty
[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL just added viewer code to drop the connection on region crossings to speed it up
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: drop to speed up ?
[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: drop the voice connection to speed up region crossings
[11:32] Bill Blight: yeah, that is a really good idea
[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, I mentioned I had done some updates to the OSSL wiki pages and stated I no longer have the memory leak in Robust.
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: nice to read that
[11:39] Bill Blight: just realized I have that code from LL to suspend the voice on crossings in my latest build of FS from source
[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, the code is in the LL viewer source?
[11:40] Bill Blight: it's in the fs code base already
[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok
[11:40] Bill Blight: https://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-firestorm-lgpl/rev/23ea0fe36fad
[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It is also in the latest SL release viewer
[11:41] Kayaker Magic: I just restarted one of my OSGrid regions with YEngine and logged on with my alt, saw my first simple YEngine script work!
[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: What's the advantage of the YEngine?
[11:41] Bill Blight: I've run into very few YEngine problems
[11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, don't forget to delete the compiled script files in the ScriptEngines folder.
[11:42] Bill Blight: converted this region to YEngine
[11:42] Bill Blight: or Tell YEngine to use a diff folder
[11:42] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I don't remember the differences without reading the comments in the OS.ini file.
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: it already does
[11:43] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, what folder does it use by default?
[11:43] Bill Blight: Seems to be a lot faster, BUT, a runway script can put a hurt on you, watched my CPU bury because someone decided to put llResetScript() in the state_entry
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: bin\ScriptEngines\Yengine
[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: What happens to a script when it crosses from an YEngine to an XEngine region?
[11:44] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: oh. That is further down than I expected.
[11:44] Bill Blight: resets
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: full reset
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: ( and compile )
[11:45] Bill Blight: Unless the XEngine region already had it, then it does not seem to recompile
[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but are the two engines completely compatible?
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: but may also reload old state
[11:45] Bill Blight: there are a few gotchas in syntax but other than that I have found 99% of my scripts work on both with no changes
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so there are small chances that a script will not work on either side of a region crossing
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: was funny to load a oar from wright from 2015
[11:46] Kayaker Magic: Yes, I just tried a HUGE non-physical sailing script and it is working!
[11:46] Bill Blight: some thing XEngine will let you get away with that YEngine will not
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: amasing how x allowed somethings to work
[11:46] Bill Blight: yeah
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: like
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: blabla(.)
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: {
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: llResetScript;
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: }
[11:47] Bill Blight: when I find scripts that Y does not like, once I look at them I wonder why they ever worked at all ..
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: yeap
[11:48] Bill Blight: XEngine will let you do list mylist = ""; to set a list empty,
[11:48] Kayaker Magic: I have taken scripts back and forth from OpenSim to InWorldz to SL and found some strange syntax things that worked without errors in OpenSim.
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: so yeap we will have complains like the ubode mesh issue
[11:48] Kayaker Magic: Also lots of type casting things that didn't work the same elsewhere.
[11:49] Bill Blight: but it is fast, I know my vehicles are a lot smoother if they use fast timers
[11:49] Kayaker Magic: So YEngine has a bunch of problems listed in the INI file: Don't use with HG, don't use with multiple regions/instance, etc etc. When will those be fixed?
[11:50] Bill Blight: well don't use with HG because people will complain about their attachments maybe going wonky
[11:51] Bill Blight: the ones with scripts
[11:51] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: at least scripts with loose syntax ...
[11:51] Bill Blight: and running multiple regions per instance has always caused weirdness in my opinion
[11:51] Bill Blight: but I think Ubit attempted a fix for the multi region thing
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: i did ?
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: well several regions on same instance should work
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: as tps/crossings btw Y regions
[11:53] Bill Blight: http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=commit&p=opensim&h=01ceb4d17e80b794432062ff3bf3b85f884c9548
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: oh so i did :)
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: well my test sim has 2 regions on same instance and working
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: and ppl be carefull don't mix ini files from dif versions
[11:57] Kayaker Magic: Files? INI files?
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: that may give strange results very time consuming to debug
[11:58] Bill Blight: yes the Wiki even says don't do that, don't mix the files, update the new example files to your settings
[11:57] Bill Blight: Oh, on the OS front, I tried to replicate mantis 8365 and cant FORCE it to happen,
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: the attachment rotation ?
[11:58] Bill Blight: the texture one
[11:58] Bill Blight: no
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: yeap that is strange
[11:59] Bill Blight: I have boat rezzers that change the textures when the boats rez , and the boats are mesh, and can't make it fail
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: well no clue how he is doing it
[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Yesterday I had an old mesh that did not have a physics model (only none in the viewer). When It was linked with another mesh with a physics model, the simulator just went straight down without as much as a pip on screen or logfile
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: ubode ?
[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bullet
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: ahh good
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: oops :)
[12:01] Bill Blight: Well as my doctor always says, if it hurts when you do that, DON'T DO THAT ...
[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ;-)
[12:01] Bill Blight: :P
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, now you need to try that with ubODE and see if it still crashes.
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: but its strange such a deep crash
[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have seen it before but never understood the (possible) cause
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: hard with no errors :)
[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yup
[12:02] Bill Blight: If it was not for old broken mesh, I really se no reason for people to still be using bullet, but that is just my opinion .... I just find ubODE much "truer" physics, if that makes any sense at all ..
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: but sounds like unmanaged issue
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: No core dump?
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: or deep in .net guts
[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nothing
[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not even a core dump
[12:03] Bill Blight: or at least better fake physics
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: ( i did got a BSOD testing ubode changes on win7 :) )
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: ode.dll changes actually
[12:03] Bill Blight: I lauched about 900 smart cars out of cannons and managed to crash a ubODE region ..
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: cars out of cannons can't be that smart
[12:04] Bill Blight: don't ask why I'm launching smart cars from cannons
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: you may need to increase the stack size
[12:05] Bill Blight: I'm sure they weigh less than cannon balls in real life
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: so it will crash only with 901
[12:06] Bill Blight:
[12:06] Bill Blight: those are all physical boulders to repel invatders
[12:06] Bill Blight: LOL
[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Monty Python used cows
[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and scary rabits
[12:08] Bill Blight: hmmm Scary rabbit + Cannon .....
[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[12:08] Bill Blight: 'tis but a flesh wound
[12:09] Bill Blight: well, if you did not notice YEngine is on here
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: 6k prims 261MB physical mem this region ?
[12:09] Bill Blight: if anybody wants to test their scripts
[12:09] Bill Blight: yeah
[12:10] Bill Blight: most the prims here are Mesh <shrug>
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: don't understand how a region that on by box uses around 200MB also, is using 1.5GB on win server 2012 :(
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: .net4.7.1 gc in workstation mode..
[12:11] Kayaker Magic: I just tested a vehicle crossing from one YEngine to another. Was slow the first time then OK.
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Any difference in memory use with YEngine vs when using XEngine?
[12:11] Bill Blight: memory , not that I can tell, but cpu can get out of hand if you have runaways
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: y seems to use a bit less
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: it..
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Nice. Another benefit of YEngine.
[12:12] Kayaker Magic: I have two 4x4 vars running Snail Dev and YEngine now. Named "Test Bed 4x4" and "Test bed 4x4 North" here in OSGrid if anyone wants to test there.
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: on a bed ill just sleep now
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:12] Bill Blight: Yeah in the respect to crossing no different than Xengine for the first crossing, but once both sides have the objects/scripts, seems to actually be a bit smoother
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: It is now almost quarter past. Any other OS topics before we call a wrap to this meeting?
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: well you did notice osgrid is on snail now
[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no, I'm good
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: osgrid plazas and grid
[12:14] Kayaker Magic: It is? Which parts of OSGrid are on Snail? Robust?
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: not sure when will dan release it
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: even event plaza is on snail :)
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Good to know. I seldom go to other locations in osgrid outside of here.
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: Dan usually keeps that a lot of commits behind
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: well this is on snail plus bills bugs from start