Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-17

Summary:
- 28 avatars at a party on 0.9.X running smoothly
- How many triangles on a mesh are acceptable?
- Clarification on a git commit log entry: "add options for regions to ignore age < 18 and payment access control where they don't apply"
- Opensim services with IPv6 addresses causing trouble

[11:04] Sheera Khan: I just saw your post at g+ about your party the other day... but too early for me I had just gotten up and fired up my computer for a breakfast session^^
[11:06] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: We topped out at 28 avatars on the region, and the sim never even hiccuped , all the visitors said it was running fine .... So not sure where people have said ".9x can't handle more than a few avatars"
[11:07] Ubit Umarov: i was on one of those pics :)
[11:08] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Yes we had 28 but might as well say 108 because Ubit was one of them, and not even he crashed it ... LOL
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: i was just sitting eating popcorn
[11:09] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I saw you dancing on a table once, but I'm sure it was by accident
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: and listining to SG
[11:11] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I don't sleep much, and want to do euro timed events as well, just getting them arranged seems to be the issue
[11:12] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: They are tricky and not well attended but we will try to change that :)
[11:12] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: spent all night last night working on reviving the web store with Hippo Finesmith
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: so.. did andrew officially started the meeting? :)
[11:15] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: not sure, I was just jabbering till someone brought up a subject
[11:16] Sheera Khan: a question regarding mesh: working in Blender most tutorials advise to use quads... but for a specific project I'ld need quite a lot of triangles. There is nothing wrong using triangles with respect to the opensim server and viewer, right? Quads are just better suited for texturing and modelling, right?
[11:16] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: It's going to get triangulated on upload anyway
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: opensim only works with triangles
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: so do viewers i think
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: i mean the collada import
[11:17] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I have found the fewer triangles you start with , by using quads the fewer you end up with in world
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: you can work with quads on blender, but need to convert to tris bc export ( or on export )
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: i guess
[11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, I got here a few minutes past the hour and Bill was talking about something. I thought you started without me. :)
[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you may risk that triangulated mesh is triangulate again on upload
[11:17] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: nope we were just rambling
[11:18] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yeah what gavin said
[11:18] Sheera Khan: well, the tail I spoke about earlier is made out of quite a lot of narrow tris ...
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: no andrew i usually try to end meetings.. sometimes even bf you start them :p
[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :)
[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: We can consider the meeting started.
[11:20] Sheera Khan: does by chance anyone know how many tris Ruth is composed of?
[11:21] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: a lot less than those "other" mesh bodies sheera
[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ruth 1 or 2?
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: there is a model of it for blender.. don't remeber the numbers ( i mean ruth )
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: ruth Ruth not ruth
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: or it it ruth ruth not Ruth?
[11:23] Sheera Khan: well, I'll look it up... was in google already but didn't find the answer that quick...
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: but the main thing about ruth ruth is that is is there on all viewers disks
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: no downloads..
[11:24] Sheera Khan: and yes, Bill, that was what I wanted to avoid... a mesh tail killing the region or viewer with its amount of tris^^
[11:24] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: https://github.com/Outworldz/Ruth
[11:24] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: grab it from the github and load it up
[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it probably had every hairstrand made of a sculpt
[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that's a real killer
[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I have a Ruth 2 model that is a little over 45,000 triangles.
[11:28] Sheera Khan: Some mesh clothes are insanely dense with their geometry - in wireframe mode they still look solid^^
[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: My Ruth 2 is the file that came from that repo.
[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It has several variations.
[11:29] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: without the head it is right at 24k
[11:29] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: oops 45 k
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: loaded a old model , 9000 tris, 5500 verts
[11:30] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: looked at the wrong number
[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: 45,848
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: its called default rigged avatar :)
[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the old one could shad quite a few verts if the hair geometry that nobody use any more was deleted
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: the one on old avatar workbench has 7200 faces and 3700 verts
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: and does look like ruth
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: so yeah.. a bit lighter and already downloaded for all :p
[11:33] Sheera Khan: Phew... that's really low poly ..
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: no ideia why a few more complex models where not just added to viewers
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: well i have a few guesses why not..
[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It is designed for a 2003 graphics card
[11:34] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: so was the opengl the viewers use
[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah :-))
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: ok bill do yr dance thing.. ppl fallen asleep again
[11:38] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: haha
[11:38] George Equus: not sleeping... just overwhelmed by heat
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: yeah that 2 :)
[11:39] George Equus: can't go outside during day
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: no no dance is not for you andrew we want ppl to awakeup not to run away..
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: ( well that line was more correct for MisterBlue.. but he is not here :) )
[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: There was a commit to Master "add options for regions to ignore age < 18 and payment access control where they don't apply"- How is that going to work exactly?
[11:40] Sheera Khan: we could rez some poledancers from Paramour ^^
[11:40] George Equus: not in 100F (35C)!
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: you set those options and those access controls are ignored..
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: thats the idea at least
[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I meant what is meant by "they don't apply"?
[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: set where?
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: on opensim.ini
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: session.. something :)
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: ( don't remember lol )
[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is there an update to the example file yet?
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: don't apply means where you don't have grid side setting of those gavin.Hird
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: you may want the pay info active on comercial grids for exaple
[11:43] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yes the example inis were updated
[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but who is ignoring it?
[11:43] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: there are places that rent regions that don't verify age and region owners have been setting it , and no one but them can get to their regions
[11:43] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: so they wanted an option to disable the check
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: or even adult if you allow kids to get in but, don't want them on some regions AND have grid side setting of adult flag
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: the region access control code gavin
[11:44] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: personally would not disable them as they could have their uses
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: so.. OPTIONS lol
[11:45] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: they still default to not being ignored
[11:45] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: so no changes for those that don't care or use them
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: yes.. options :p
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: that default to previous behavour
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: guess i still did not made them visible on ini files ... not sure
[11:46] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: pretty sure you did
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it seems to me that any sensible grid owner would set a policy for their grid and every region would have to stick to it
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: ok
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: yes gavin
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: just another option... only to reduce some confusion on using that in regions/grids where DBS default to no payment info and minor
[11:48] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: well I thought you did
[11:48] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: not seeing the commit
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: and then users set the restriction..
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: i did another one Bill.Blight
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: i mean another settings update
[11:49] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=commit&p=opensim&h=519d320e3cea8f404e9f6a3effbc13af9941e3c6
[11:49] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yes that one
[11:49] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: and
[11:49] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=commit&p=opensim&h=d7a919507871077666cfb3bac247935e2f76345a
[11:50] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: oops wrong one
[11:50] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: s
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: well i had those options code getting dust on my disk.. :)
[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: still have some more code, but more tricky
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: changes in dbs code.. inventory services... etc
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: ( not dbs formats i think )
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: also serialization of things..
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: inventory things..
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: getting a full inv does seem a bit faster with those changes
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: and moving items to Trash
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: something that is a fail on some versions
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: ie try delete 600 items from a inventory folder..
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: ( dance harder bill... )
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Is there any other issue for todays meeting before we hit the top of the hour?
[11:55] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Just an observation:
[11:56] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: IPv6 is really killing it at times!
[11:56] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: nods @ Sheera
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: opensim does support ipv6 and will smoke with it
[11:57] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yep
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: guess viewers also
[11:57] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Bill had debugged an issue with HG visitors coming to a grid where some URLs have an IPv6 address too
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: guess their dns had ipv6 answers
[11:57] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: would it be a possibility to ignore the IPv6 addresses completely in the viewers and on the server side?
[11:57] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: if you have a IPV6 dns record, and the source machine has an IPV6 address it will try to use that, and cause issues
[11:57] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: not if there is DNS resolution
[11:58] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: that comes from the root operating system
[11:58] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: I had problems until I disabled IPv6 on my server.
[11:58] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: teleports would time out and now they are working again. Phew.
[11:59] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: the issue is not just IPV6 is the the fact when you have IPV6 names mapped to your opensimulator servers
[11:59] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: DNS delivers both addresses, IPv4 as well as IPv6. Could the viewer or the server simply ignore the IPv6 one and just use IPv4?
[11:59] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: it returns the address that the operating system asks for, not both at the same time
[12:00] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: the simpler solution would be for grids not to use IPv6 addresses
[12:00] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: if your system has both types of addresses it may round robin and work sometimes
[12:00] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: for Opensimulator any way
[12:01] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: if the request for the name comes from an IPV6 enabled system and there is an IPV6 address available , chances are that is what is going to return.
[12:01] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I agree with you there, we'ld be better off not having an AAAA-Resource record, but alas, we have for now :-(
[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not going to be categorical, but I don't thin the viewers have any IPv6 support at all
[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but the curl library used must have
[12:02] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I think you may be correct gavin, but have not dug in or tested it
[12:03] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: but not sure I care enough to dig into it ... LOL
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:04] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: the simplest fix is not having ipv6 mapped to opensim services,
[12:05] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: well, in our case that's what will be done... but I think of quite a lot of home users who already have IPv6...
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: guess issue cames when there are also web services with same FQNS
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: and ppl want web on ipv4
[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the curl lib has CURL_IPRESOLVE_V4 set
[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so no IPV6 support enabled
[12:06] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: but just because an end user is on IPV6 does not mean they can't access ipv4 addresses ..
[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actully that is t in llcurl.cpp and not in the library
[12:07] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: that is all handled by the edge routers
[12:07] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: hmmm, should the resolver then return an IPv6?
[12:08] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: you don't want services that don't support IPV6 on IPV6 , pretty simple
[12:08] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: ;-)
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: ( guess that was .. on ipv4 )