Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-26

[11:10] Kayaker Magic: Well, I don't see Andrew but I have a report to make.
[11:11] Kayaker Magic: I tested llCastRay in 0.9.1 on a bunch of different var region sizes here in OSGrid and it works GREAT!
[11:11] Sheera Khan: Cool Kay :-)
[11:12] Sheera Khan: Thank you and Ubit for getting on it :-)
[11:12] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: @Kayaker / what exactly is raycasting / llCastRay ?
[11:12] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and robert on bullet
[11:12] Kayaker Magic: I also tested llList2Xxxx speeds, it was working great under mono 4.2, but when I upgraded to mono 5.something, Those functions slowed down by about 50 times!
[11:12] Sheera Khan: (and whoever contributed also)
[11:13] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: kay you forgot appdomain (i guess )
[11:13] Kayaker Magic: llCastRay is a function you call from a script to look for items by casting a mathematical ray around.
[11:14] Kayaker Magic: llCastRay is considered a better way of doing weapons in modern games, less server load than using physical bullets and collisions.
[11:14] George Equus: Used in weapons, hitting something with a bullet or an arrow
[11:14] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: @Kayaker / ahh / thanks :_)
[11:15] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: you mean laser guns
[11:15] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: other types is not that realistic
[11:15] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: bullets do fall during flight
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: Well, bullets move so fast that faking one with a ray works well enough for most RP
[11:17] George Equus: how about on a pool table....?
[11:17] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeap better for laser guns or short range with high speed bullets simulation where the fall does not mean much
[11:17] Sheera Khan: as long as you don't consider the effect of the spin and the gravitation
[11:18] Kayaker Magic: I actually have cannons that move the bullets with llSetZKeyframedMotion, and cast ahead before the next step of the motion to detect hits. They approimate parabolic paths with straight lines.
[11:18] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and when you do not want players to aim higher to compensate
[11:19] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: only issue with physics bullets is tunneling
[11:19] Kayaker Magic: Quantum mechanics in virtual worlds....
[11:19] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeap
[11:19] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ::)
[11:20] Kayaker Magic: So THAT is why electrons can pass through a potential barrier!
[11:20] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeah they run on bullet or ode also :p
[11:20] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: In virtual worlds, we have a different uncertainity principle
[11:21] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: actually its more sampling theory than QM
[11:22] Kayaker Magic: I have noticed a new problem in OSGrid: From regions running 0.9.1 I cannot HG out to places like Kitely. From older versions I can. I have not investigated yet, anyone else having that problem?
[11:23] George Equus: Hmmm... think I can. Testing..
[11:23] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: wasn't that talked in last meeting?
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: same issue you had last meeting?
[11:23] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: 0.9.1 tp from here to kitely was working fine
[11:24] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, but I have not had time to write up a mantis for it.
[11:24] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: I did have that problem HG from my 0.8.3 grid to my 0.9.1 beta grid. I could jump to a plaza and then go to the region but not directly teleport to a region other than the plaza. But since upgrading I can jump ok.
[11:24] George Equus: No problem at all getting to Kitely and back
[11:25] Kayaker Magic: I've also had some permission issues, I seem to be able to change texture maps on objects I don't have MOD permission on.
[11:25] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeap seems a dns issue or kitley side
[11:26] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: the gatekeeper just does not answer
[11:26] George Equus: Assume this run .9...
[11:26] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: Hi Arielle
[11:26] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: was working fine mb 2 weeks ago
[11:29] George Equus: HG is bit spotty, some days it work great, some hardly manage to get around anywhere.
[11:29] George Equus: Yesterday was great
[11:29] George Equus: You just never know....
[11:29] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: Pinging prod.kitely.com [50.18.48.24] with 32 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
[11:29] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: been hearing the same about HG from several sources
[11:30] George Equus: Part of it I suppose
[11:30] Kayaker Magic: Oh, I have a general question: I have converted my OSGrid regions to use MySQL on my server. Can I do that with a standalone version of OpenSim?
[11:30] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well to hypergrid.org:8002 it worked fine :)
[11:31] Sheera Khan: Metro is on a different version though
[11:31] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: did kitely change their hg settings?
[11:31] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: As far as I know Standalone can use a mysql db
[11:31] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: not set one up for a while
[11:31] Kayaker Magic: And the second part of the question is: In a standalone version, where is the asset database? How do I convert it to use MySQL also?
[11:31] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well it was working and there where no changes on os hg code
[11:31] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: on that
[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: standalones can use any of the supported databases
[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: grid mode only adds more tables to it
[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but the core tables are the same
[11:32] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: do you mean migrating a sqllite db to a mysql db
[11:32] Kayaker Magic: I'm following this tutorial to change the sqlite to mysql db: https://red-dragon-club.blogspot.nl/2011/12/migrating-your-sim-to-mysql.html
[11:33] Kayaker Magic: But that only changes the region database.
[11:33] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I don't think Kitely changed anything
[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: best thing you can do is export all your regions and inventory
[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: then create a completely blank MySQL db and start OpenSim on it and let it creat the tables
[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: then add the first avatar with the same UUID as in SQLite
[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and then import the iars first
[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: next the oars
[11:35] Kayaker Magic: It is not loosing or importing the inventory that concerns me, it is where in the settings to I tell standalone to use MySQL?
[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: one sec
[11:35] Kayaker Magic: GridCommon.ini only tells where to get the region data, not the asset data.
[11:36] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well did a few hg tps with my alt to 0.8.2 grids with no issues
[11:36] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: is it not in StandaloneCommon.ini
[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in StandaloneCommon.ini
[11:36] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so guess something changed at kitely
[11:36] George Equus: GridCommon.ini
[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the default probalby only has the entry for SQLite, but just copy the MySQL section from Gridcommon.ini
[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Standalone does not use gridcommon
[11:38] George Equus: StorageProvider = "OpenSim.Data.MySQL.dll"
[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: should be in robustHG.ini too i think
[11:38] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: I just looked at the StandaloneCommon.ini and the MySQL details are below the sqlite
[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, that's what to copy from gridcommon to standalonecommon
[11:38] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: Chat spam alert
[11:38] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: [DatabaseService]
 ;
 ; ### Choose the DB
 ;

 ; SQLite
Include-Storage = "config-include/storage/SQLiteStandalone.ini";

 ; MySql
 ; Uncomment these lines if you want to use mysql storage
 ; Change the connection string to your db details
 ;StorageProvider = "OpenSim.Data.MySQL.dll"
 ;ConnectionString = "Data Source=localhost;Database=opensim;User ID=opensim;Password=***;Old Guids=true;"
[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if not already there
[11:39] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: standalones do not use robust
[11:39] Kayaker Magic: There are lines like that in GridCommon.ini and they only change the region db.
[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what do you mean region db?
[11:40] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: for standalones it is StandaloneCommon.ini
[11:40] Kayaker Magic: In OSGrid, the regions have one database and the asset server returns assets from afar.
[11:40] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: that is for Grid mode for standalone you only use OpenSim.ini (OpenSim.exe)
[11:40] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: uff again back to basics again ??
[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you start opensim in standalone mode on a fresh MySQL database, it will create all the tables you need in that database
[11:41] Kayaker Magic: In standalone, are region tables and asset tables in the same database?
[11:41] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: In grid Mode you use Robust.exe (Robust.ini) and OpenSim.ini (OpenSim.exe)
[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[11:41] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: I should mention on the HG issues that one friend (SkyFlier.NorthStar) told me that a lot of his random HG issues were resolved when he set creators who show up as UnknownUsers in the DB to region owner. The unknown user seemed to be causing the issues that resulted in HG jump crashes
[11:41] Kayaker Magic: AHA!
[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: one database with about 20 tables or so
[11:41] Kayaker Magic: Well that is the solution to a problem of mine. Thank you!
[11:42] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: Interesting Arielle
[11:42] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: can you focus on a issue at a time? you are making a mess
[11:43] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: ?
[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't think I would set UnknownUsers as region owners...
[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sounds like a gaping security hole
[11:43] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: i didnt think it would be taken well by some
[11:44] steve Franklin: yes that could be an issue..
[11:44] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: it would explain the randomness of it as it only would be relevant when products with unknown users as creators were involved
[11:45] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: i meaning to set products with unknown users as creators to the region owners name]
[11:46] Kayaker Magic: Ubit: IM conversations always have several conversations interleaved, or conversations with time-shifted answers in them.
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thereby taking over the product setting the region owner as creator?
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: NOT per the book if you ask me
[11:46] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well this is not suposed to be a IM but a meeting
[11:46] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: the solution is not to have Unknown users as creators but that has been an ongoing bug for years
[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does it crash the sim or the viewer?
[11:47] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: partly to do with that oars and iar's in past didnt have the capability to put in the right creator
[11:47] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: viewer apparently
[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which viewer?
[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: + version
[11:48] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: he didnt specify but i would guess FS
[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably
[11:48] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: but since it would be the chatter causing it, it maybe all viewers
[11:49] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and who made the proper debug to proper related creators to viewer crashs ?
[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have never experienced viewer crash because of it
[11:49] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and what mantis issue is that ?
[11:49] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: ok
[11:49] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: i dont believe there is a mantis for it
[11:49] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: he shared his solution with me
[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because in that case the UUID should be initialized to a zero UUID
[11:50] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: the product?
[11:50] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: making it unusable?
[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in the viewer
[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: BUT
[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I believe there are 3 different UUID versions that have existed in the viewer code over time
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so if it is an older viewer, it may not know how to handle the latest version and crash on it when initialized to a zero UUID
[11:52] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: how old we talking?
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: could be latest Singularity release-ish
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is 2014
[11:54] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: i will ask next time i see him online
[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cool
[11:54] Arielle Popstar: in any case anyone experiencing random crashes on HG jumps can keep an eye open if there are creator name issues involved
[11:55] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well, any issues on migrations from 0.8 to 0.9.. if any are happening ?
[11:55] Arielle Popstar: just broken mesh that i have heard about
[11:55] Arielle Popstar: if they tried out Ubode
[11:55] Arielle Popstar: but that is a known issue
[11:59] Arielle Popstar: ok i do have a note from another about some things
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: we may release a postfix one of this days, with the fixes to the very few reports we had, and include the new bullet rays code
[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sounds like a plan! :-)
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: there is no mantis activity.. no reports..
[11:59] Arielle Popstar: first section being copied and pasted:
[11:59] Arielle Popstar: - Avatar Physics - I have noticed when an avatar walks and stops the avatar will glide for a meter - much like when you run and stop on a wooden floor wearing socks. This started happening with this Version and was not happening in 0.9.0-RC2. It is more pronounced when coming to a stop running.
[12:00] steve Franklin: that is strange- or everything is working correctly!
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: so no point on keeping master "frozen" waiting just or fixes
[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have seen that Arielle
[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I reverted a commit to remove it
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: yes avatar step and stop is now a bit larger
[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: FreakyTech said he observed the same for that commit
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: to allow double tap on fw to change to running without a stop
[12:01] Arielle Popstar: another section is this:
[12:01] Arielle Popstar: - Weapons - with this Version I have been developing combat systems for Gorean RP - specifically a bow and arrow and a Meter - this is based on the same scripts used in SL currently.
The Collisions are alot better although not 100% - strangely enough Collisions recorded by an avatar are about 60~80% - where as - collisions recorded by an arrow/bullet are over 90%
One other issue I have seen is Bullets are not dieing properly - some do some dont - llDie() seems to work at random
[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but again what viewer, because there was a Linden patch some time ago affecting it also
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: what mantis is that ?
[12:03] Arielle Popstar: Not a mantis. Just a note i was sent by a grid manager because he didnt know how else to communicate it
[12:03] James atLLOUD: uff
[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: let me see if I can find the commit I reverted
[12:04] James atLLOUD: I can understand users not submitting to Mantis, but grid owners should know this.
[12:04] James atLLOUD: sorry for rant
[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: add a delayed stop so fast tap on move keys does not stop the avatar in some cases
[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is the commit text that caused it
[12:06] steve Franklin: well it is the only way to know when issues come up officially. There should be only one point for dealing with issues not just rumors!
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: i said that gavin .. i knew the commit :)
[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right
[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the avatar overran everything
[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: on stop
[12:06] Arielle Popstar: think sometimes it is hard to file a commit when an issue cant be repeated consistently
[12:07] steve Franklin: that is an issue
[12:07] steve Franklin: it needs to be repeatable
[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so you probably need to revert that one Ubit
[12:07] Arielle Popstar: sometimes again it is not easy to ascertain the characteristic that makes it repeatable
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: well the feature is also needed
[12:08] Arielle Popstar: as in the case of the creator name
[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not if it breaks avatar movement
[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: i would not say break
[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not stopping when it should is break
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: just as ugly as sl
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: but i also dont like the loss on steps control
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: but the way tap tap works, inplies at least some 100ms delay
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: on deciding for a stop
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: with our timings.. guess 250ms is a more relistic numebr
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: so.. thats almost 1m