Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-04

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[10:55] Kayaker.Magic Can I demo some of my terrain tools at the next WIP Selby?
[10:55] Kayaker.Magic It would require Estate Manager permission, and messing up your sandbox.
[10:56] Selby.Evans The next wip is next sur
[10:57] Selby.Evans Sun -- at Nara' place -- you can run the scritps there with no problem
[10:58] Kayaker.Magic No, I've been writing scripts calling the osSetTerrainHeight call. It can be disabled, it requires Threat Level HIGH, and only land owners and estate managers can use scripts that call it.
[10:58] Arielle Popstar: i have an osgrid test region on a google cloud server you are welcome to use for test
[10:59] Selby.Evans I think I can fix things so you can run OSSL scripts on the sand box, but am not sure --
[10:59] Selby.Evans I can run it if you can give me a copy
[10:59] Kayaker.Magic Oh, I have lots of places to test it, but I can't show it off at the WIP without permissions.
[11:00] Arielle Popstar: WIP?
[11:00] Kayaker.Magic I have a bulldozer that changes the terrain as it moves, and a stick of dynamite that blasts craters in the terrain.
[11:00] Selby.Evans Cookie II has complicated ownership because NMA is the official owner
[11:00] Kayaker.Magic And fractal mountain builders.
[11:01] Arielle Popstar: anyone hear from Andrew this week?
[11:02] Marcus Llewellyn: Nope, and from what the sign says, I wouldn't expect to.
[11:02] George Equus: No, probably tied up for a couple of weeks I'd imagine
[11:03] Marcus Llewellyn: The one in front of the fireplace.
[11:06] Sheera Khan: and Ubit won't show up here as he experiences too much lag issues here..
[11:06] Arielle Popstar: see the new feature Ubit put in?
[11:06] Arielle Popstar: i was helping him test it yesterday
[11:06] George Equus: Anyone noticed if their Blamgates stopped working last couple of days?
[11:06] Sheera Khan: but at least there are quite some git commits and Mantises again :-)
[11:06] Arielle Popstar: it was cool with some great potential
[11:07] Kayaker.Magic Please tell us about Ubit's new feature!
[11:07] Basil Sosides: yes tell us please
[11:07] Arielle Popstar: add EXPERIMENTAL osObjectTeleport(LSL_Key objectUU
[11:08] George Equus: My Blam report region as being off line, although is not
[11:08] Vince Xootly: are we gonna have any devs join us?
[11:08] George Equus: Ubit feature got anything to do with it?
[11:08] Arielle Popstar: so we were driving vehicles into a sort of blam gate and it would tp the whole vehicle and driver to another location on the Region
[11:09] Arielle Popstar: are you using head George?
[11:09] Basil Sosides: thats cool
[11:10] Arielle Popstar: Master?
[11:10] Sheera Khan: @Vince, we don't know for sure :-/
[11:10] Arielle Popstar: are you running master from the past couple days?
[11:10] Vince Xootly: I want to discuss asset server performance
[11:11] Sheera Khan: Andrew was supposed to be here, but as you can see on the sign he can't attend unfortunately (@Vince)
[11:11] Arielle Popstar: discuss away Vince. Some do read the logs which get posted
[11:11] Vince Xootly: I'm more in need of a conversation regarding where I can start
[11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: Kinda depend son your goals/needs.
[11:12] Arielle Popstar: Perhaps if Ubit has issues here, we might wish to consider moving to a location in future that is better for him
[11:12] George Equus: I'll sit tight and see if Blamgate will get sorted. seem very much related to what Ubit is doing
[11:12] Vince Xootly: well, for whatever reason my regions have a slow connection to osgrid's asset store
[11:12] Sheera Khan: @Arielle, that was planned for but left aside because Ubit vanished for several weeks...
[11:13] Arielle Popstar: he is back
[11:13] Vince Xootly: that, or the connection between my client and the regions/osgrid asset is poor
[11:13] Vince Xootly: but I'm not aware of the asset pipeline
[11:13] Vince Xootly: or how exactly it works, and the opensim docs on it doesn't really clear it up
[11:13] Marcus Llewellyn: While it is hardly impossible that OSgrid's assets service(s) are hiccuping, a networking issue is a more likely explanation.
[11:14] Arielle Popstar: @Vince did you by chance set that serverside object permission to false?
[11:14] Vince Xootly: let me check
[11:14] Vince Xootly: dont believe so
[11:14] Selby.Evans I could offer space on Kitely if that would help
[11:14] Arielle Popstar: i had set it to false on one of my regions and it slowed the region to a crawl as far as the asset servers were concerned
[11:15] Vince Xootly: nope, they're enabled
[11:15] Marcus Llewellyn: OSgrid makes use of a modified version of the asset service that's part of ROBUST, based on the asset services used at Avination. It runs multiple instances, load balanced with nginx proxies.
[11:15] Vince Xootly: is it the region that actually contacts osgrid asset, or can the client download direct
[11:16] Vince Xootly: I figured osgrid's servers are fast enough (as this region loads super quick)
[11:16] Marcus Llewellyn: Slow assest requests here and there are common and expected. If *all* or most of your requests are showing as slow on the console, or timing out, there's likely a networking issue bwteen your sim and OSgrid.
[11:17] Vince Xootly: that's just it though, no errors or anything. just slow for me and I'm assuming for others
[11:17] Vince Xootly: but the server itself is on a very fast connection located physically close to me
[11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: Another possibility deoends on your operating system... are you running your simulator(s) on Windows or Linux?
[11:17] Vince Xootly: linux
[11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: Okay, then it's not that. Windows installs have sometimes seen asset slowdowns due to over-zealous antivirus software
[11:18] PcTek CyberStar: what antivirus software do you use?
[11:18] Arielle Popstar: where is the region connecting from approx?
[11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: Off the top of my head, I'd double check your asset cache settings.
[11:18] Vince Xootly: I believe it's in NJ
[11:19] PcTek CyberStar: you can run a test from (a) to (b) with pathping
[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: If you want to get very fancy, you can always cache assets via nginx on your end if you like.
[11:19] Vince Xootly: I use mbam locally but the issue presents itself on mac and windows
[11:19] PcTek CyberStar: pathping
[11:19] Vince Xootly: ooh, I like the sound of local caching
[11:19] Kayaker.Magic I submitted a Mantis about LSL lists being slow, it turns out the slow behavior only happens on Microsoft servers, where a list-centric script of mine runs 10,000 times slower.
[11:19] PcTek CyberStar: some versions of windows do not have pathping, but there you can use winmtr
[11:19] Sheera Khan: Maybe there is a packet loss in transit? I've had a faulty switchport at my provider once... It slows things down bigly
[11:19] PcTek CyberStar: it will show if there is a server running slower between you and them
[11:19] Vince Xootly: pathping shows no issues
[11:20] PcTek CyberStar: what's your cpu usage
[11:20] PcTek CyberStar: do you have a lot of unnecessary processes running
[11:20] Vince Xootly: nah, I actually just reinstalled windows
[11:21] Vince Xootly: and I'm on a gigabit connection
[11:21] PcTek CyberStar: you need to test with iometer
[11:21] PcTek CyberStar: a freeware program that test data throughput.
[11:21] Vince Xootly: what's concerning is it happens at my other house, on my mac
[11:21] Arielle Popstar: did you do anything on ClientStack.LindenCaps]
[11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: I'm confused. I thought you were running your sims on a hosted linmux machine in NJ?
[11:22] Vince Xootly: right, I am
[11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: And you experience the slowdowns there? With console messages? Or is the slowdown at your viewer at home?
[11:22] Vince Xootly: but I'm testing it at two houses, the one I'm at right now is gigabit, other house is not, but same latency for downloading a texture
[11:23] Vince Xootly: no messages, but it happens for most people that join my regions
[11:23] Vince Xootly: I think I've had one person say they loaded fast BUT that's not really reliable
[11:23] Vince Xootly: my definition of fast is.. fast.
[11:23] Vince Xootly: idk.
[11:24] PcTek CyberStar: i maintain the biggest list of antivirus software programs in the world
[11:24] PcTek CyberStar: let me give you a copy
[11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: It kinds smells like something funky is going on with either your asset cache seetings, or the directory(ies) it uses.
[11:24] Vince Xootly: thanks pc
[11:24] Vince Xootly: yeah, that's what I'm looking at
[11:24] Vince Xootly: which is strange given the servers are on SSDs
[11:25] Marcus Llewellyn: And if it is your asset cache, you really should be seeing messages on your console, I'd think.
[11:25] Marcus Llewellyn: Soo... I'm not being ultimately helpful. lol
[11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: When you upgrade your sim, do you do clean installs? Or install over the old one?
[11:26] Basil Sosides: i do clean install
[11:27] Sheera Khan does clean installs too
[11:27] Basil Sosides: all assets are stored in MySQL
[11:27] Vince Xootly: i've not been running them for long enough to actually need an upgrade
[11:27] Vince Xootly: I deploy my own modules but thats about it
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: There's also a disk (or memory) bassed asset cache. Flotsam.
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: You could try closing logins, and then doing:
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: fcache clear
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: fcache assets
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: And then reopen logins
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: That would clean the cache, and pull them from OSgrid again.
[11:29] Marcus Llewellyn: It can take a while, but it would ensure a proper cache.
[11:29] Vince Xootly: thanks, I'll try and see if it works
[11:31] Kayaker.Magic Any ideas how many people run their simulators on Microsoft servers?
[11:31] Arielle Popstar: i do some
[11:32] Basil Sosides: Win 10 is my Server
[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: Dunno how many overall. I run on both Win and Lin myself, though mostly Linux.
[11:32] PcTek CyberStar: linux is more secure for the internet
[11:32] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim Dev 4499355: 2017-04-01 18:15:47 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:33] Kayaker.Magic I submitten a mantis (8127) about lists sometimes being slow. It turns out I was on a Microsoft server when I first did that test.
[11:33] Kayaker.Magic On Linux, lists are 10,000 times faster.
[11:33] Marcus Llewellyn: It's not about security so much as uptime. Win10 like to restart at it's leisure... not great for services. ;)
[11:34] Basil Sosides: i modified my Win 10 specialy, Windows is doing ONLY what i want !!!!
[11:35] PcTek CyberStar: ok.
[11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: Hehe. I'm aware that that is possible. I prefer not to not mess with windows update services. That has fingers deep in the operating system, and an OS reinstall isn't something I jump at these days. ;)
[11:36] PcTek CyberStar: understood.
[11:36] PcTek CyberStar: moreover, there are so many new changes in windows that it can be very difficult to figure out exactly what restarted it and why.
[11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: And that's on regular windows 10. The fast track is even more xciting... I have that running on one of the laptops. lol
[11:37] PcTek CyberStar: and frankly without registry modifications, windows services administration can be an extremely exasperating experience.
[11:38] Marcus Llewellyn: I'll be getting a new workstation in a few weeks. It'll have an AMD Ryzen 7 1800x processor in there. I'm very interested to see how it handles OpenSim workloads.
[11:38] PcTek CyberStar: well, i run an os called slitaz as one of my specialty operations. I experimented with a very low power system and was able to run opensim on slitaz, on a pentium III 900 mhz single core cpu with 256 mb ram
[11:40] PcTek CyberStar: i suppose such experimentation will stop as rasberry pi technology consumes the energy efficiency side of th server markets landscape
[11:40] James.atLLOUD goodness gracious Marcus.
[11:41] Arielle Popstar: my first setup was on a P3 with 512
[11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: Well, ARM is certainly interesting, and some server ARM chips are stuffing 64 cores or more on a single die. But it all comes down to how it handles threads. OpenSimulator is *crazy* thread heavy.
[11:42] Arielle Popstar: i remember a guy who set regions up on old dual core android phones
[11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: Hehe. Yeah... it's very possible. I ran in on my Nexus 7 tablet for giggles.
[11:43] Arielle Popstar: i will chat with Ubit this coming week and see if he would be willing to attend at a different location
[11:44] Sheera Khan: that would be nice :-)
[11:45] Kayaker.Magic Is the OSCC conference site still up?
[11:45] Kayaker.Magic It has small conference rooms.
[11:45] PcTek CyberStar: are they saying wright plaza will be down?
[11:45] PcTek CyberStar: i dont think that is what they are saying
[11:46] Arielle Popstar: i have groundsits so i dont really care where
[11:46] PcTek CyberStar: i think they are indicating they just wont be here
[11:46] PcTek CyberStar: so need to move the meeting location
[11:46] Marcus Llewellyn: OSCC is probably still running, but I haven't visited in a while. I wouldn't be surprised iif the sim on it couldn't use a restart here and there.
[11:47] Arielle Popstar: Ubit apparently experiences a lot of lag here
[11:47] PcTek CyberStar: does anyone have a .raw terrain file for a 256 x 256 that is just a small hill around the 4 edges ?
[11:47] Marcus Llewellyn: The AvaCon grid also has UCI style conference rooms.
[11:47] Arielle Popstar: i used to when i was on dsl
[11:47] PcTek CyberStar: ahhh wait a second
[11:48] Arielle Popstar: check with magnuz in metro
[11:48] PcTek CyberStar: there used to be a ding-a-ling that would park out there and lag everyone
[11:48] Arielle Popstar: he has piles of terrains
[11:49] Arielle Popstar:
[11:49] PcTek CyberStar: ill check it now
[11:52] PcTek CyberStar: nope
[11:52] PcTek CyberStar: i just need some hills that go around a 256 x 256 like this []
[11:52] PcTek CyberStar: a square of hills around the sim edge
[11:52] Arielle Popstar: did you have those dozers available for testing or is it an item that will be for sale Kayaker?
[11:53] Kayaker.Magic The bulldozer is for sale on the Kitely market.
[11:53] Kayaker.Magic I
[11:53] PcTek CyberStar: i'll be back in a moment, i have to put some lawndry and get the mail
[11:53] Kayaker.Magic I'm working on other terrain tools, I could make you a surrounding hills RAW file easily
[11:54] Kayaker.Magic but I have another meeting to run to. Track me down later and I'll make you one.
[11:54] Kayaker.Magic I have a script that you enter cubic control points to, and it fills in smooth terrain between them.
[11:55] Arielle Popstar: nice
[11:56] James atLLOUD: If the office hours location does change, a sign like Andrew's sign here would be helpful. I have so much trouble keeping up with messaging.
[11:57] Arielle Popstar: good idea James

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