Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-04

[10:55] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Can I demo some of my terrain tools at the next WIP Selby?
[10:55] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: It would require Estate Manager permission, and messing up your sandbox.
[10:56] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: The next wip is next sur
[10:57] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Sun -- at Nara' place -- you can run the scritps there with no problem
[10:58] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: No, I've been writing scripts calling the osSetTerrainHeight call. It can be disabled, it requires Threat Level HIGH, and only land owners and estate managers can use scripts that call it.
[10:58] Arielle Popstar: i have an osgrid test region on a google cloud server you are welcome to use for test
[10:59] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I think I can fix things so you can run OSSL scripts on the sand box, but am not sure --
[10:59] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I can run it if you can give me a copy
[10:59] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Oh, I have lots of places to test it, but I can't show it off at the WIP without permissions.
[11:00] Arielle Popstar: WIP?
[11:00] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have a bulldozer that changes the terrain as it moves, and a stick of dynamite that blasts craters in the terrain.
[11:00] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Cookie II has complicated ownership because NMA is the official owner
[11:00] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: And fractal mountain builders.
[11:01] Arielle Popstar: anyone hear from Andrew this week?
[11:02] Marcus Llewellyn: Nope, and from what the sign says, I wouldn't expect to.
[11:02] George Equus: No, probably tied up for a couple of weeks I'd imagine
[11:03] Marcus Llewellyn: The one in front of the fireplace.
[11:06] Sheera Khan: and Ubit won't show up here as he experiences too much lag issues here..
[11:06] Arielle Popstar: see the new feature Ubit put in?
[11:06] Arielle Popstar: i was helping him test it yesterday
[11:06] George Equus: Anyone noticed if their Blamgates stopped working last couple of days?
[11:06] Sheera Khan: but at least there are quite some git commits and Mantises again :-)
[11:06] Arielle Popstar: it was cool with some great potential
[11:07] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Please tell us about Ubit's new feature!
[11:07] Basil Sosides: yes tell us please
[11:07] Arielle Popstar: add EXPERIMENTAL osObjectTeleport(LSL_Key objectUU
[11:08] George Equus: My Blam report region as being off line, although is not
[11:08] Vince Xootly: are we gonna have any devs join us?
[11:08] George Equus: Ubit feature got anything to do with it?
[11:08] Arielle Popstar: so we were driving vehicles into a sort of blam gate and it would tp the whole vehicle and driver to another location on the Region
[11:09] Arielle Popstar: are you using head George?
[11:09] Basil Sosides: thats cool
[11:10] Arielle Popstar: Master?
[11:10] Sheera Khan: @Vince, we don't know for sure :-/
[11:10] Arielle Popstar: are you running master from the past couple days?
[11:10] Vince Xootly: I want to discuss asset server performance
[11:11] Sheera Khan: Andrew was supposed to be here, but as you can see on the sign he can't attend unfortunately (@Vince)
[11:11] Arielle Popstar: discuss away Vince. Some do read the logs which get posted
[11:11] Vince Xootly: I'm more in need of a conversation regarding where I can start
[11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: Kinda depend son your goals/needs.
[11:12] Arielle Popstar: Perhaps if Ubit has issues here, we might wish to consider moving to a location in future that is better for him
[11:12] George Equus: I'll sit tight and see if Blamgate will get sorted. seem very much related to what Ubit is doing
[11:12] Vince Xootly: well, for whatever reason my regions have a slow connection to osgrid's asset store
[11:12] Sheera Khan: @Arielle, that was planned for but left aside because Ubit vanished for several weeks...
[11:13] Arielle Popstar: he is back
[11:13] Vince Xootly: that, or the connection between my client and the regions/osgrid asset is poor
[11:13] Vince Xootly: but I'm not aware of the asset pipeline
[11:13] Vince Xootly: or how exactly it works, and the opensim docs on it doesn't really clear it up
[11:13] Marcus Llewellyn: While it is hardly impossible that OSgrid's assets service(s) are hiccuping, a networking issue is a more likely explanation.
[11:14] Arielle Popstar: @Vince did you by chance set that serverside object permission to false?
[11:14] Vince Xootly: let me check
[11:14] Vince Xootly: dont believe so
[11:14] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I could offer space on Kitely if that would help
[11:14] Arielle Popstar: i had set it to false on one of my regions and it slowed the region to a crawl as far as the asset servers were concerned
[11:15] Vince Xootly: nope, they're enabled
[11:15] Marcus Llewellyn: OSgrid makes use of a modified version of the asset service that's part of ROBUST, based on the asset services used at Avination. It runs multiple instances, load balanced with nginx proxies.
[11:15] Vince Xootly: is it the region that actually contacts osgrid asset, or can the client download direct
[11:16] Vince Xootly: I figured osgrid's servers are fast enough (as this region loads super quick)
[11:16] Marcus Llewellyn: Slow assest requests here and there are common and expected. If *all* or most of your requests are showing as slow on the console, or timing out, there's likely a networking issue bwteen your sim and OSgrid.
[11:17] Vince Xootly: that's just it though, no errors or anything. just slow for me and I'm assuming for others
[11:17] Vince Xootly: but the server itself is on a very fast connection located physically close to me
[11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: Another possibility deoends on your operating system... are you running your simulator(s) on Windows or Linux?
[11:17] Vince Xootly: linux
[11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: Okay, then it's not that. Windows installs have sometimes seen asset slowdowns due to over-zealous antivirus software
[11:18] PcTek CyberStar: what antivirus software do you use?
[11:18] Arielle Popstar: where is the region connecting from approx?
[11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: Off the top of my head, I'd double check your asset cache settings.
[11:18] Vince Xootly: I believe it's in NJ
[11:19] PcTek CyberStar: you can run a test from (a) to (b) with pathping
[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: If you want to get very fancy, you can always cache assets via nginx on your end if you like.
[11:19] Vince Xootly: I use mbam locally but the issue presents itself on mac and windows
[11:19] PcTek CyberStar: pathping xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
[11:19] Vince Xootly: ooh, I like the sound of local caching
[11:19] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I submitted a Mantis about LSL lists being slow, it turns out the slow behavior only happens on Microsoft servers, where a list-centric script of mine runs 10,000 times slower.
[11:19] PcTek CyberStar: some versions of windows do not have pathping, but there you can use winmtr
[11:19] Sheera Khan: Maybe there is a packet loss in transit? I've had a faulty switchport at my provider once... It slows things down bigly
[11:19] PcTek CyberStar: it will show if there is a server running slower between you and them
[11:19] Vince Xootly: pathping shows no issues
[11:20] PcTek CyberStar: what's your cpu usage
[11:20] PcTek CyberStar: do you have a lot of unnecessary processes running
[11:20] Vince Xootly: nah, I actually just reinstalled windows
[11:21] Vince Xootly: and I'm on a gigabit connection
[11:21] PcTek CyberStar: you need to test with iometer
[11:21] PcTek CyberStar: a freeware program that test data throughput.
[11:21] Vince Xootly: what's concerning is it happens at my other house, on my mac
[11:21] Arielle Popstar: did you do anything on ClientStack.LindenCaps]
[11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: I'm confused. I thought you were running your sims on a hosted linmux machine in NJ?
[11:22] Vince Xootly: right, I am
[11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: And you experience the slowdowns there? With console messages? Or is the slowdown at your viewer at home?
[11:22] Vince Xootly: but I'm testing it at two houses, the one I'm at right now is gigabit, other house is not, but same latency for downloading a texture
[11:23] Vince Xootly: no messages, but it happens for most people that join my regions
[11:23] Vince Xootly: I think I've had one person say they loaded fast BUT that's not really reliable
[11:23] Vince Xootly: my definition of fast is.. fast.
[11:23] Vince Xootly: idk.
[11:24] PcTek CyberStar: i maintain the biggest list of antivirus software programs in the world
[11:24] PcTek CyberStar: let me give you a copy
[11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: It kinds smells like something funky is going on with either your asset cache seetings, or the directory(ies) it uses.
[11:24] Vince Xootly: thanks pc
[11:24] Vince Xootly: yeah, that's what I'm looking at
[11:24] Vince Xootly: which is strange given the servers are on SSDs
[11:25] Marcus Llewellyn: And if it is your asset cache, you really should be seeing messages on your console, I'd think.
[11:25] Marcus Llewellyn: Soo... I'm not being ultimately helpful. lol
[11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: When you upgrade your sim, do you do clean installs? Or install over the old one?
[11:26] Basil Sosides: i do clean install
[11:27] Sheera Khan does clean installs too
[11:27] Basil Sosides: all assets are stored in MySQL
[11:27] Vince Xootly: i've not been running them for long enough to actually need an upgrade
[11:27] Vince Xootly: I deploy my own modules but thats about it
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: There's also a disk (or memory) bassed asset cache. Flotsam.
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: You could try closing logins, and then doing:
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: fcache clear
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: fcache assets
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: And then reopen logins
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: That would clean the cache, and pull them from OSgrid again.
[11:29] Marcus Llewellyn: It can take a while, but it would ensure a proper cache.
[11:29] Vince Xootly: thanks, I'll try and see if it works
[11:31] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Any ideas how many people run their simulators on Microsoft servers?
[11:31] Arielle Popstar: i do some
[11:32] Basil Sosides: Win 10 is my Server
[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: Dunno how many overall. I run on both Win and Lin myself, though mostly Linux.
[11:32] PcTek CyberStar: linux is more secure for the internet
[11:32] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.9.1.0 Dev 4499355: 2017-04-01 18:15:47 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:33] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I submitten a mantis (8127) about lists sometimes being slow. It turns out I was on a Microsoft server when I first did that test.
[11:33] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: On Linux, lists are 10,000 times faster.
[11:33] Marcus Llewellyn: It's not about security so much as uptime. Win10 like to restart at it's leisure... not great for services. ;)
[11:34] Basil Sosides: i modified my Win 10 specialy, Windows is doing ONLY what i want !!!!
[11:35] PcTek CyberStar: ok.
[11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: Hehe. I'm aware that that is possible. I prefer not to not mess with windows update services. That has fingers deep in the operating system, and an OS reinstall isn't something I jump at these days. ;)
[11:36] PcTek CyberStar: understood.
[11:36] PcTek CyberStar: moreover, there are so many new changes in windows that it can be very difficult to figure out exactly what restarted it and why.
[11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: And that's on regular windows 10. The fast track is even more xciting... I have that running on one of the laptops. lol
[11:37] PcTek CyberStar: and frankly without registry modifications, windows services administration can be an extremely exasperating experience.
[11:38] Marcus Llewellyn: I'll be getting a new workstation in a few weeks. It'll have an AMD Ryzen 7 1800x processor in there. I'm very interested to see how it handles OpenSim workloads.
[11:38] PcTek CyberStar: well, i run an os called slitaz as one of my specialty operations. I experimented with a very low power system and was able to run opensim on slitaz, on a pentium III 900 mhz single core cpu with 256 mb ram
[11:40] PcTek CyberStar: i suppose such experimentation will stop as rasberry pi technology consumes the energy efficiency side of th server markets landscape
[11:40] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: goodness gracious Marcus.
[11:41] Arielle Popstar: my first setup was on a P3 with 512
[11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: Well, ARM is certainly interesting, and some server ARM chips are stuffing 64 cores or more on a single die. But it all comes down to how it handles threads. OpenSimulator is *crazy* thread heavy.
[11:42] Arielle Popstar: i remember a guy who set regions up on old dual core android phones
[11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: Hehe. Yeah... it's very possible. I ran in on my Nexus 7 tablet for giggles.
[11:43] Arielle Popstar: i will chat with Ubit this coming week and see if he would be willing to attend at a different location
[11:44] Sheera Khan: that would be nice :-)
[11:45] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Is the OSCC conference site still up?
[11:45] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: It has small conference rooms.
[11:45] PcTek CyberStar: are they saying wright plaza will be down?
[11:45] PcTek CyberStar: i dont think that is what they are saying
[11:46] Arielle Popstar: i have groundsits so i dont really care where
[11:46] PcTek CyberStar: i think they are indicating they just wont be here
[11:46] PcTek CyberStar: so need to move the meeting location
[11:46] Marcus Llewellyn: OSCC is probably still running, but I haven't visited in a while. I wouldn't be surprised iif the sim on it couldn't use a restart here and there.
[11:47] Arielle Popstar: Ubit apparently experiences a lot of lag here
[11:47] PcTek CyberStar: does anyone have a .raw terrain file for a 256 x 256 that is just a small hill around the 4 edges ?
[11:47] Marcus Llewellyn: The AvaCon grid also has UCI style conference rooms.
[11:47] Arielle Popstar: i used to when i was on dsl
[11:47] PcTek CyberStar: ahhh wait a second
[11:48] Arielle Popstar: check with magnuz in metro
[11:48] PcTek CyberStar: there used to be a ding-a-ling that would park out there and lag everyone
[11:48] Arielle Popstar: he has piles of terrains
[11:49] Arielle Popstar: http://binders.world/terrains/
[11:49] PcTek CyberStar: ill check it now
[11:52] PcTek CyberStar: nope
[11:52] PcTek CyberStar: i just need some hills that go around a 256 x 256 like this []
[11:52] PcTek CyberStar: a square of hills around the sim edge
[11:52] Arielle Popstar: did you have those dozers available for testing or is it an item that will be for sale Kayaker?
[11:53] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: The bulldozer is for sale on the Kitely market.
[11:53] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I
[11:53] PcTek CyberStar: i'll be back in a moment, i have to put some lawndry and get the mail
[11:53] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I'm working on other terrain tools, I could make you a surrounding hills RAW file easily
[11:54] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: but I have another meeting to run to. Track me down later and I'll make you one.
[11:54] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have a script that you enter cubic control points to, and it fills in smooth terrain between them.
[11:55] Arielle Popstar: nice
[11:56] James atLLOUD: If the office hours location does change, a sign like Andrew's sign here would be helpful. I have so much trouble keeping up with messaging.
[11:57] Arielle Popstar: good idea James