Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-28

[11:08] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Big crowd today.
[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Always, Kayaker. :)
[11:08] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Did I hear Ubit say he won't come here to meetings, wants to go someplace less laggy?
[11:09] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: Hi George - long time no chat :)
[11:09] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have a question about the OSSL functions
[11:09] George Equus: Don't see any particular lag here at these meetings average 45 fps
[11:10] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: In PHP there is a way to ask the system: "Does function xxx exist?" Is there a way to ask in an OpenSim script "Will osGetGridName work here?"
[11:10] George Equus: But got fast connection
[11:10] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: I'm at 37fps - certainly just fine
[11:11] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Because if you just call it, CRASH! HALT PROGRAM< DEBUG WINDOW! RED TEXT!
[11:11] George Equus: No idea how Ubit connect
[11:12] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: That's a good question Kayaker
[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, That particular function is enabled by default. I think your only option is to ask the grid owners if they have enabled a particular function if it is normally not available by default.
[11:13] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: NO that function fails on any grid that has THREAT LEVEL set below MEDIUM.
[11:15] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: As I have said before, the ninnies who set the default threat levels on these functions think that osTickleBunny has a HIGH threat level. This issue makes ALL the OSSL function almost completely useless. I am afraid to distribute any script that calls them.
[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok, you may be talking about grids that are running older code. In 0.9 based grids there is the osslEnable.ini file that dictates what functions are available and that one is on by default.
[11:17] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Yes, but if you set your threat level to low then osGetGridName and many others will crash and burn if you call them.
[11:17] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: So the function could be enabled, but I can't call it for threat reasons.
[11:18] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: If I could just KNOW which functions will fail, I could code around calling them.
[11:18] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Say, default to "OpenSim" if I know I cannot call osGetGridName
[11:19] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hmm, is there a way to read the threat level? Looking that up...
[11:20] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Not that I see in the documentation at http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OSSL_Implemented
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I don't have copies of the ini files for 082 available at the moment. I can't check the OSSL settings in that version. I just know how it is for 0.9. That function is safe to use in 0.9 based grids.
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It would be nice if there was a way to catch exceptions in LSL scripts
[11:21] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Another solution would be a way to capture errors. Instead of popping up ANNOYING DEBUG WINDOWS WITH INCOMPREHENSIBLE RED TEXT, the script gets an event call so it can deal with it quietly.
[11:21] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I was just typing that Andrew!
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :)
[11:21] Vince Xootly: i think i might have a way to do that
[11:22] Vince Xootly: i was working on something similar the other night
[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, I'm not sure if Ubit has decided not to come to these meetings. I know he doesn't like this location as he complains about lag he has when here. He hasn't been around on IRC in ages so he may be too busy to attend these days.
[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Vince, What method are you trying to deal with OSSL functions and possible exceptions?
[11:24] Vince Xootly: going through the code right now, hold on
[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok
[11:24] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002 flüstert: I'm all ears also!
[11:26] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Some items, like the Paramour Clubmaster Danceball, are so popular that people are willing to modify their ini files to get them to run.
[11:26] Vince Xootly: dont have the code i was working on w/ me right now, can't seem to find it in the code
[11:26] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: But most users cannot change their grid settings.
[11:27] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: So I can't give a script to most users that has OSSL functions in it.
[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, Some people use OSSL functions without knowing whether they are available across all grids by default or not. It is another reason I started updating the OSSL functions to add permissions information about them.
[11:28] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: So I just cannot use any of the OSSL functions, and all the effort to write them was wasted.
[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Vince, do you remember what technique you were using to handle possible exceptions?
[11:28] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Yeah, whats the basic Idea?
[11:29] Vince Xootly: iirc i modified the event executor w/ a new event, and attempted to start finding where script exceptions are actually thrown
[11:29] Vince Xootly: was thinking an ossl function like osExceptionFilter
[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, Before using OSSL functions check whether there is an equivalent LSL one you could use instead. If there isn't, you need to check the default permissions on the OSSL function to know if it will be one that other people will be able to use.
[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Vince, oh. You modified the scripting engine code?
[11:30] Vince Xootly: is there a better way of doing it? i'm pretty new to opensim dev
[11:31] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Yes, thats SOP Andrew. But surprise surprise, in the case of osGetGrid name, it never occured to LL to add a function that returns the string "SecondLife"
[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Vince, Not that I'm aware of at the moment.
[11:31] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Vince, that is a great idea! I would love to hear that you will continue working on that!
[11:32] Vince Xootly: :) of course.
[11:34] George Equus: On proper settings for using the Paramour ball, the distro for Windows Dan publish have a ready made "safe settings" on threat levels you can replace the original with.
[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: George, having run in to a situation with a different dance ball that used OSSL functions I suspect the problem is with forcing an animation on an avatar without having to request permission first.
[11:35] Vince Xootly: so on a different note, what are some of the bottlenecks that are on mono but not .net? i'm looking for areas to improve performance
[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: osAvatarPlayAnimation is set to false by default in 0.9
[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It has a threat level of High.
[11:36] George Equus: OK Andrew
[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: um... make that VeryHigh
[11:37] Thor Soulstar: sorry, is this a meeting to talk about an specific issue?
[11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: A dance system that lets someone select their dance and wants to avoid the avatar having to accept the animation will run in to an issue with that function not being enabled by default.
[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Thor, sure. go ahead.
[11:38] Thor Soulstar: oh thanks
[11:38] Thor Soulstar: my friend has a problem since some time ago
[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Its a bit of a free for all here. Anything related to Open Simulator is fair game.
[11:38] Thor Soulstar: she can go only to some sims
[11:38] Thor Soulstar: but not to others
[11:39] Thor Soulstar: It is strange because she can not go even to an island she owns
[11:39] Thor Soulstar: but she can do it from other place in RL
[11:39] Thor Soulstar: but not at her house
[11:40] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: There are tricks to limit the number of times an avatar is asked to OK animations. Some dance balls hold onto that permission so the next time you come, even days later, it still has permission to animate you and doesn't need to request that again.
[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Thor, it sounds like you may be talking about doing hypergrid teleports between regions.
[11:40] Thor Soulstar: no, It is into osgrid
[11:40] Thor Soulstar: I thought about a ports issue, but she can tp to some places
[11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Make sure you are running the same version of OpenSim that is being used to run osgrid.
[11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: osgrid runs code that is close to the latest git master version of OS.
[11:42] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Some of the people who connect regions to the grid are still running an older version of OS.
[11:42] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: You can get the latest at OSGrid.org, the zip files there are updated ...often...
[11:42] Thor Soulstar: yes I know, she and I run the latest one, and tried with others
[11:42] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sometimes you will be able to TP around the grid but sometimes not. It depends on which versions of code are involved.
[11:43] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Thor, I would suggest you test the TPs between your friends region and one of the Plazas here in osgrid.
[11:44] George Equus: What regions are involved if I may ask?
[11:44] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.9.1.0 Dev 056ccae: 2017-01-27 21:43:25 +0000 (Unix/Mono)
[11:44] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: If your friend is running the latest code a TP to/from a plaza will eliminate most of the code related issues.
[11:44] Thor Soulstar: I'll tell her to try this
[11:44] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Thor, you can check the version of code running in a region by checking the Help->About dialog box in your viewer.
[11:45] Thor Soulstar: ok thank you
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Thor, that would be your starting point. If your friend and the Plaza are running the same version of code and still having TP issues I would double check the configuration next.
[11:48] Thor Soulstar: ty
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: People connecting regions to osgrid should run a version of code that is the same as, or very close to, what is running on osgrid. If not, they may also run in to issues on HG TPs.
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Thor, yw. You can let us know next week how you get on. You can also ask for help in the opensim-user IRC channel.
[11:49] George Equus: I run the latest distro on the Osgrid, org page, no significant changes, as is basically, and never had an issue with tp inworld (osgrid) I am not a technical person at all just a user
[11:49] Thor Soulstar: is there a hardware issue that can cause you can travel to some places and not others?
[11:49] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: There are lots of regions on OSgrid that have not been updated in a long time.
[11:50] Andsim Hammerer: not all region is up to date
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: What Kayaker says is quite true. The people runing osgrid can't do much about that. You could try contacting region owners and ask them to update but it is still up to them to do so.
[11:50] Andsim Hammerer: yea
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Thor, the main hardware related issues would be routers.
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Thor, Another problem can be with the version of mono being used to run OpenSim for those cases where you aren't running OS under windows.
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Some versions of mono 4.x are known to have issues and are to be avoided. Some slightly more recent ones had an issue related to DNS depending on how things were set up.
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I've been staying on mono 3.2.8 for now.
[11:53] Thor Soulstar: well next week I'll try to come is problem persist
[11:53] George Equus: Thor, if your friend can go to her own regions, I'd say the router is correctly configured and not involved in the tp issues inworld
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Thor, ok. We will be here.
[11:54] James atLLOUD: (thanks for the "help | about" suggestion Andrew. I'd wanted but not found how to identify the grid I was on. In Firestorm 5.0 it's "about firestorm")
[11:54] George Equus: Andrew, is that assumption I made correct?
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: George, I'd say so. I'm also suggesting using the Plazas as an end point as they are grid owned and would be running a recent version of OS code.
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: thor, Good luck with your issue. Let us know if you solved the issue.
[11:55] George Equus: Thanks Andrew
[11:55] James atLLOUD: Most of the larger os grids have not updated to v9, is that so?
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Many grids are still on 0.8.2
[11:56] James atLLOUD: ty Andrew.
[11:56] Andsim Hammerer: yep
[11:56] Tannoy OSgrider: 0.9 is still unstable
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: BTW, This region (Wright Plaza) is running 0.9.1 with the hash code of 056ccae
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: That code is from Feb 1 and is the latest except for a few minor commits.
[11:57] George Equus: Same as I run
[11:58] Nemaz Ozma: os grid servers gotta be tweaked because physics here arent too broken
[11:58] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002 sneaks silently back in
[11:58] George Equus: Works well for me as far as can tell
[11:59] Tannoy OSgrider: Event Plaza crashed on last 2 Friday events
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Tannoy, It depends on how you look at it as to whether it is "unstable" or not. The 0.9 code hasn't been officially released so in that respect it isn't "stable". There are a few grids running 0.9 so it is reasonably stable.
[12:00] George Equus: A novelty for me is a few scripts I have had for ages, refusing to remember setting (directions - doors and the like, a few clocks also) now all work without any issues when restarting the server
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Tannoy, I can't comment on that without knowing why it crashed. There can be a number of reasons beyond just the code.
[12:01] Tannoy OSgrider: yes, I was only answering why most of grids aren't using it :)
[12:01] Constance Fairchild: hi andrew
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: It is nice seeing a lot of new faces here today.
[12:01] James atLLOUD: agree @ new faces :)
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Tannoy: I think a lot of grids are waiting for an official release of 0.9 before they will considering using it. I have no idea how many have done much testing of the code.
[12:02] George Equus: Think Plaza crashes had to do with a cache not being cleared properly beforehand
[12:02] Tannoy OSgrider: yes, and tons of traffic
[12:02] Nemaz Ozma: ive crashed these sims myself on accident
[12:02] Nemaz Ozma: across the use of multiple viewers
[12:02] Constance Fairchild: Does version .90 have any new features?
[12:02] Constance Fairchild: hi george
[12:03] Tannoy OSgrider: it has many new features
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Still no code changes in git master since Feb 2. There is a hold on the master branch while waiting for testing of the recent changes to the permissions code. I volunteered to do some testing but I've not gotten to it yet as I had some other projects to finish up.
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Constance, yes it does.
[12:04] James atLLOUD: Oh, thanks for that news Andrew!
[12:05] Constance Fairchild: osgrid has an unofficial .9 release, doesn't it?
[12:05] Tannoy OSgrider: yes
[12:06] James atLLOUD: I wish I had enough knowledge to help test, but I get lost in the weeds.
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Top of my todo list is some documentation I need to write. Once that is done I should have time to do some testing. It doesn't prevent others from also doing some perms testing.
[12:06] Constance Fairchild: just wondering whether to upgrade to it
[12:06] Tannoy OSgrider: http://www.osgrid.org/index.php/downloads
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: This past week I have updated the PHP side of OpenSimSearch and OpenSimProfile to use PDO calls instead of mysql_* calls. I couldn't use those modules as my machine is now running with PHP 7 and mysql_* calls no longer exist.
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't pushed the changes yet as I still have some final testing to perform.
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I know there are some other people using the addon search and profile modules that have had the problem with the mysql_ based calls in the PHP part of those modules.
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Constance, take a back up of your database and test it. The other option is set up a test grid wusing it.
[12:09] Constance Fairchild: my database is on-disk (perhaps I should use mysql, but I don't at the moment
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: If you want to test 0.9 you want a backup of your databases because there are changes in the DB structure in 0.9 vs 0.8.2
[12:09] Constance Fairchild: ah!
[12:09] Constance Fairchild: i'll probably just do a save oar, load oar
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: If someone wants to test 0.9 their DB structure will be updated. If that person decided to go back to an older version they may run into problems due to the DB changes which is why I say backup the DB first.
[12:11] Tannoy OSgrider: I hope that will be migration scripts for that
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: When Robust and instances are started up they automatically apply any DB migrations.
[12:12] Tannoy OSgrider: ok
[12:13] Constance Fairchild: can .9 load a version .8 oar?
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: yes.
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: I am not aware of any change to the structure of OAR files that would prevent loading older OARs.
12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Anything else for todays meeting?
[12:14] Tannoy OSgrider: LM from inventory is broken
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Tannoy, In what way is it broken?
[12:15] Tannoy OSgrider: it says unknown and than parel and region
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Tannoy, in which version of OS? Are you sure those regions still exist?
[12:16] Andsim Hammerer: sound like it grid cant fine it
[12:16] Tannoy OSgrider: yes
[12:16] Andsim Hammerer: os vers?
[12:17] Tannoy OSgrider: os grid newest
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Is the LM for a region within grid you are in or for one in another grid?
[12:17] Tannoy OSgrider: for any grid
[12:18] Tannoy OSgrider: at least it shows like that on singularity
[12:18] Andsim Hammerer: sounds like firewall issues
[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: What are the steps to show the problem? I have LM's in my inventory that look ok.
[12:19] Tannoy OSgrider: i see that problem when using singularity 1.8.7
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Tannoy, if I select an LM and say to show on map it takes a moment for it to show the details when the map opens but it does work.
[12:20] Tannoy OSgrider: yes it works ok
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm running Singularity 1.8.7
[12:21] Tannoy OSgrider: I can't find an error now, sorry
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, np. Sometimes you run across temporary issues.
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: If there is nothing more I'll call this meeting done.