Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-17

[11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Small group here so far.
[11:06] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have a question about var regions, who might be able to answer and are they coming today?
[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I don't know who may be able to answer the question without knowing the question.
[11:09] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have heard you cannot put different sized vars next to each other, but I know someone who has been trying it. He sez you can put even sized vars next to each other and it works. Like a 2x2 next to a 4x4. Is this reliable? Will crossing different swized vars be supported?
[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hm... I haven't heard about trying to put different sized vars up against each other.
[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The usual problem mentioned is about putting a regular sized region up against a var.
[11:10] Basil Sosides: sorry, it works on 0.9xx...but not in 0.8xx
[11:11] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hmm, i just assumed a regular sized region was just a special case of a 1x1 var.
[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: No, it isn't.
[11:11] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Then again, it is an odd size, so can't be put up against a 2x2 or a 4x4 according to Gregg
[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: A var should be a special case of a regular sized region but it isn't quite.
[11:13] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.9.1.0 Dev 90dee2f: 2017-01-08 12:30:50 +0000 (Unix/Mono)
[11:16] Basil Sosides: are there some changes in the Xbake-Section ?
[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I've passed the question to the other core devs. I don't know if any of the others are around at the moment to answer.
[11:17] Basil Sosides: Xbakes dont start sometimes
[11:17] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: You all see the xkcd comic about IRC? https://xkcd.com/1782/
[11:17] Basil Sosides: ok# thx
[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Basil, are you asking about ini settings or about changes in the code affecting Xbake?
[11:18] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: awesome XKCD
[11:18] Basil Sosides: true Andrew
[11:18] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I personally am not a fan of IRC, it is like using a CB radio to try and contact someone when email and cellphones are available.
[11:19] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: I can relate Kayaker.
[11:20] Basil Sosides: since 12 Weeks i have that Problem that Xbakes do not start by themself, i must do it manualy
[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Basil, there was a change on January 5 to make it possible to disable the bakes module in the way it is described in config comments
[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: On December 10 there was a change to not try to do xbakes on HG
[11:20] Basil Sosides: ok, i'll have a look in my ini
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Those are the only recent changes in code related to xbake.
[11:21] Basil Sosides: if Xbakes is unkomened its disabled ?
[11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: XBake is disabled if the URL line is commented.
[11:22] Basil Sosides: ok#
[11:22] Basil Sosides: so i have to change it, thanks
[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: If you are setting up XBakes for your own grid there is an XBake setting in Robust.ini
[11:24] Basil Sosides: yes, in my own grid it works well, but not here in OSgrid
[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok. I don't know if this grid has xbake enabled. If I can get in touch with nebadon or dan I can find out.
[11:26] Sheera Khan: it used to be enabled here
[11:26] Sheera Khan: but I can't tell if it is still for sure
[11:26] Basil Sosides: may be it is cause of my Router ? (Loopback)
[11:26] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: What's the reason to change Xbakes?
[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I would expect it to be but I'll ask anyway.
[11:31] Sheera Khan: there's quite a lot of work being done in the permissions system right now ...
[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Basil, dan says that he does see some "wonky xbake behaviour".
[11:32] Sheera Khan: that seems to be a rather fundamental change, is that supposed to hit the 0.9 still?
[11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Basil, are you having problems with XBake when you HG TP from your grid to osgrid?
[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: James, If you are asking about disabling Xbakes for HG, I would have to ask Ubit for more details about that change.
[11:36] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: ok, ty
[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sheera, Most of the work in this past week has been permissions related. There are still some situations involving permissions that the code isn't handling properly.
[11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Some of the issues actually exist in SL. Most of the time SL is the reference for how permissions should work but there are a few places where they appear to have gotten them wrong.
[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Some of the recent permissions related changes were fixing the handling of items assigned to groups.
[11:38] Sheera Khan: it looks like it's going to be a rewrite of a substantial part of the code... I was a bit surprised about that at a time I felt was close to a release
[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It is rewriting or modifying important sections of the code. I don't believe the changes are substantial. Making changes to permissions isn't always isolated to just one or two files so it may seem like it is a bigger change.
[11:40] Sheera Khan: ok, I didn't consider that
[11:41] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Getting permissions to work right would be a great improvement.
[11:41] Sheera Khan: it sure would be :-)
[11:42] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Addressing permissions issues is important and would be best be fixed for an official release of 0.9. It is one of the few remaining issues that are on the list of things to be done for 0.9 before a release, IIRC.
[11:42] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: Fundamental, i would think.
[11:44] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Some code was accepted some time back that included some changes to permissions and it broke some things related to permissions. Some of the recent changes are to fix the permissions checks that broke because of the bad commit and to fix some other issues.
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Melanie has said she is the only one who fully understands permissions. She also mentioned there are 21 (IIRC) different permission related checks in the code.
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: One has to be very careful touching any code related to permissions. You may think you are fixing one set of checks but could be breaking another.
[11:47] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: quite a bunch ^^
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: yup.
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: I stay out of dealing with permissions as far as code is concerned. I would help test changes if required or asked to do so.
[11:48] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I do understand you there ;-)
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: There have been some important fixes and some fixes for some minor issues that have been long standing. It is getting better.
[11:50] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Just a funny observation: an IM session from my home grid ran fine quite some time - 4 minutes ago suddenly out of the blue the name is shown as Unknown UserUMMAU43
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: With the release of 0.9 on the horizon it is worth going through the permissions system to fix some known issues and review other permissions checks to make sure they are doing what they need to do.
[11:51] James atLLOUD: makes good sense
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: The unkown user issue has been fixed, or thought fixed, a few times. It has been hard to pin down the reasons it shows up.
[11:52] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: yes, a broken permissions system wouldn't shed a good light on the new release^^
[11:53] James atLLOUD: Before we end, I would like to check-in about the report I do on Mal Burn's 'inworld review'. I would really like to know if/when I mis-state anything from this meeting.
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Before we wind down this meeting there was one other issue that has been raised. I've been told a few people experience lag issues in this region.
[11:54] James atLLOUD: The show format is changing and opensim will be getting more attention in a shorter-duration recording.
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: The suggestion has been made for us to meeting in some other location in the grid that doesn't have as many objects around us so it would have less lag.
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know this grid that well to suggest an alternate meeting location. If anyone wants to suggest an alternate location please do.
[11:55] James atLLOUD: Could be nice when things are rezzed relevant to discussion.
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: James, I don't understand that coment. Would you say that again?
[11:55] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: event plaza was mentioned last week
[11:56] George Equus: Unknown User issue... not tried it myself https://www.kitely.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3848&p=21428#p21428
[11:56] James atLLOUD: sure - less lag would be good for when devs rez an object to demo physics or things like bento.
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Does it have an area with some seats?
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Event Plaza looks like a var based on what i see on the map.
[11:58] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I don't know that plaza too well... I just mentioned it as one place suggested last week
[11:58] Misterblue Waves: var sized shouldn't be a problem unless one have your view distance set high
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayker, Dan mentioned the answer is technically 'yes' (regarding putting a 2x2 up against a 4x4) but there are problems with view distances and visibility
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Sheera, ok. I can pop over and have a look.
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: (after the meeting)
[12:00] James atLLOUD: @meeting lag - it rarely is an issue for me so any choice is fine.
[12:00] George Equus: I never experience any notable lag here
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't say I notice much lag. Sometimes there is a bit of chat lag but that doesn't happen too often.
[12:01] Misterblue Waves: I don't notice lag either...
[12:01] James atLLOUD: If location does change, please leave a sign here - I'll likely miss it in IRC :)
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: If we do go for a different meeting location next week, or for some other upcoming meeting, I will have to get nebadon or dan to rez a sign here with an LM or TP to the alternate location.
[12:01] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I see only chat lag
[12:01] James atLLOUD: lol :)
[12:02] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: :-)
[12:02] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: that would be great :-)
[12:03] George Equus: My only complaint here is the seats... and I think others are having some issues with it too from time to time
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: If we go somewhere else we can have a different set of problems with seats. :)
[12:04] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: we can take a copy to the new place so you'll feel at home immediately ^^
[12:04] Misterblue Waves: then event plaza would be good -- we'd all need to be dancing :)
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Sheera, hehe. Yea, I thought of having nebadon rez out a moon couch at some other meeting location.
[12:05] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: we could use the servers of the OSCC maybe? they should be idling mostly ^^
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Plenty of seats over there.
[12:05] George Equus: and no problems sitting on them either  :))
[12:06] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: rezzing would be prohibited though I guess
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: It is here so I would expect it to be at an alternate site unless we meet in a sandbox.
[12:07] George Equus: how about using one of the Sandboxes?
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: That would be an option.
[12:07] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: we could bring our own chairs^^
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: We could bring our own seats
[12:07] George Equus: Right!!
[12:08] George Equus: or couches...
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: On a different topic there is a sign out front of this building that mentions an upcoming Valentine themed hunt and live music event
[12:09] George Equus: Avia is working on that
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: ok
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: We are past the hour mark. Any other topics for today?
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I know I haven't been on a hunt in quite a while.
[12:11] George Equus: Each region owner can ask her for a heart to place on region with some nice treat inside to those who finds it
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I think that will do it for this week. Thank you all for coming.
[12:13] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: thank you Andrew... who will be in charge of the next location?
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: If there will be a change in meeting location I'll get a sign up here with a link to the new location.
[12:13] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Cool :-)