Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-29

[11:03] George Equus: Seems someone has fixed the Sit script... works every time now  :))
[11:04] George Equus: Why did I say anything... sigh
[11:05] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: always worked for me -- but I dont have AO on
[11:05] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I never have trouble with the seats here.
[11:07] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i pinged plugh ubit and misterblue on irc to remind them of the meeting
[11:09] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I can bug Andrew on Skype
[11:10] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: ah yes andrew is plughs avatar name, i forget, im used to talking to him on irc lol
[11:12] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: noisy crowd today...
[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: In the last couple of days I was having another go at getting mono-3.2.8 working. I found out why it wasn't finding libgdiplus.
[11:13] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: wrong version?
[11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I wanted to use 3.2.8 as I was having issues running instances under Linux using mono 3.8 or higher. So far, using mono 3.2.8 looks as if it has solved the problems I was having when I tried to use the more recent versions of mono.
[11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The memory usage and CPU load when using mono 3.2.8 to run instances is more like it is when running the same instances under Windows.
[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hm... seems to be a bit of chat lag here today.
[11:15] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i plan to stay with 3.2.8 for awhile, so many people having memory problems with the higher versions
[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: yes. Even with mono 3.8 I found memory usage was about double what is was under Windows.
[11:16] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: which GC do u use?
[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The default at the moment. i haven't changed any GC related setting.
[11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Which one are you using?
[11:18] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: SGen is the new one, i think it's the default
[11:19] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i don't know when it took over as default from boehm
[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok. I need to look at the recent changes to the OpenSim ini files. I know there have been some changes to settings in the last week or so.
[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It has taken a while to realize that most of the isssues running instances were mainly due to mono. I thought it was just a problem with the 4.x series.
[11:21] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: just a bool to disable the stats console output, fills robust console and runs on its own thread, so i wanted to make it optional
[11:21] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: eh chat lag
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: yes, it is rather bad today. I've just mentioned it to nebadon so he can look at it later.
[11:21] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: said i added a config option for FSAssets, chat message seems to have been eaten
[11:23] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i also added a new default landing option for region.ini
[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: yes, I remember the one about the landing point.
[11:23] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: other than that i think config changes were ubit making the defaults and examples line up
[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: A few settings have been removed from the OpenSim.ini.example file and are now only in the OpenSimDefaults.ini file.
[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: At this point it seems that 3.2.8 is the latest safe version of mono that should be used to run a live/production grid.
[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, have you tried out the grid code since there were changes affecting llCastRay?
[11:29] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: No, I can't build it myself, I have to wait for a new OSGrid release to try that.
[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm trying to remember if the changes were only applied to ubODE physics or also to BulletSim
[11:30] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ubit is tinkering with it, sounds like castray is getting faster and faster. It is all good!
[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org nods
[11:30] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Only to ubODE, it has an integreated llCastRay.
[11:31] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: The V3 castray works pretty good with Bullet, but is slow in Var regions.
[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok, That is what I thought. That being the case it won't affect anyone using BulletSim physics.
[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: yes, I remember that is the main issue you had reported.
[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I sometimes wish I knew more about the deeper levels of the OS code. I wouldn't expect a var to behave any different than a regular region for most things other than some specific issues.
[11:33] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: larger coordinate values?
[11:34] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: if var regions take longer i think the length of the ray is too high, casts off across the whole sim looking for hits
[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: yea, that's all it should be for the most part. Possibly some terrain related issues.
[11:34] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I tested llCastRay with short and long casts, in regions with lots of prims or few. I did not see the correlations I expected. It was slow even in empty var regions.
[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Alicia, ah, yes. That could be an issue in large vars.
[11:35] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i think one of Ubits changes to his version was to limit the ray length to the visible range
[11:38] James atLLOUD: curious about 'visible range' - I think of that as a viewer setting.
[11:39] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: true but the sim can guess a maximum effective range, rather than just testing the entire sim
[11:39] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: since it is a bit quiet atm... Does anyone know how to make muting an avatar persist a relog?
[11:40] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i think it requires a custom php script, the mute.php used by opensim is not fully functional
[11:41] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: ah, thank you for the hint :-)
[11:41] James atLLOUD: is mute an aspect of friending?
[11:42] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: looking at the code, there is a mute list module but i havnt looked into that area so i dont know how effective it is
[11:42] James atLLOUD: oh a separate list.
[11:42] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: mute list is part of IMs from looking at the code briefly
[11:43] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i expect it doesnt have a database backend to retain information after relog
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Mute list is another one of those things I've wanted to look in to in more detail.
[11:44] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: the code just asks for another module and sends data from that
[11:45] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: great to hear that Andrew :-)
[11:45] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: As grids grow bigger over time the need arises ^^
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Sheera, it is another of those items I can work on in my "spare time". ;)
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't think it would be difficult to implement. The main challenge is just understanding how mutelist works. How the query is being made and what is expected in return.
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: WinGridProxy can help with that. I can also log any request made to the PHP file to see what information it recieves.
[11:49] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: wouldnt it be better as a c# region module rather than php? less extra bits to setup then if its internal
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: yes, it would. Looking at what I have set in my standalone the mutelist.php file isn't called. It never logs any data.
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Looks like I was having a go at it about 3 years ago.
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Any other questions or concerns for todays meeting?
[11:55] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: my main concern would be how to give you some spare time ^^
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, I'd like to know where I can get some of that.
[11:56] James atLLOUD: I have a question - beyond my skiillz but that's never stopped me: How would I look into adding a parameter to setCameraParams?
[11:57] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.9.1.0 Dev 6f10803: 2016-11-25 21:37:33 +0000 (Unix/Mono)
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Is that an ll function?
[11:57] James atLLOUD: it's viewer side mostly I suspect.
[11:57] James atLLOUD: Yah
[11:57] James atLLOUD: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlSetCameraParams
[11:58] James atLLOUD: I would really love to control FOV.
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: ah, yes it is. In that case you can't add any params unless they are available in the SL implementation.
[12:04] James atLLOUD: yes, thanks for that Andrew. I will probably ask again in 3 months. aging brain.
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: James, your best bet would be adding an os function. You could make it act the same as the ll one but include any extra functionality you feel is missing.
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Look at the LSL_Api.cs and OSSL_Api.cs files for an idea on how to do that, should you feel inclined to have a go at it.
[12:05] Sheera Khan: well, can I help you in any way with that mute issue resp. the group chat closing?
[12:06] Sheera Khan: I'm not into C# though :-(
[12:06] James atLLOUD: OK thanks! I was thinking that looking at some of the things Alicia did on GIT short list.
[12:07] James atLLOUD: NP sheera, I think the meetings over.
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not that much of a C# programmer either but it is close enough in general to C (with some OOP features added) that I can work with it.
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Aren't mute issue and group chat closing two separate issues?
[12:08] James atLLOUD: That's generous Andrew. I'd feel bad adding to your list so I'll see what I can learn.
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: James, I wasn't the one offering to help with the camera functionality. :) Just pointing you in the general direction.
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: One issue is saving what avatars or objects a person has said they want to mute.
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Second issue is somehow remember an avatar closed a group chat and not letting it automatically reopen until after they have relogged.
[12:09] James atLLOUD: oh, I understand - lol. easy to read the wrong intent.
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: James, :)
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: James, looking at LSL_Api (and the interface and runtime files) will show you how a function is implemented. Copying the relevant code from LSL_Api.cs to OSSL_Api.cs (and changing the leading ll to os) will get you a good starting point.
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: James, you can search git log for another example of a function that was added to LSL_Api.cs or OSSL_Api.cs to see what things get changed when a new function is added.
[12:12] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: Sheera -"closed group chat window reopens every time someone posts a message to the group" is how it is in SL, annoying to say the least, Still is the case whenever I log in to SL sure enough some groups pop up and I close them only to get all back within seconds.
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Just check the history of those two .cs files to find a relevant point in history.
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: George, that isn't how it works in SL.
[12:13] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: is for me anyway, tried to get rid of it but not succeeded so far.
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: In SL group chat windows open automatically. Once you have closed them they don't automatically reopen until the next time you relog, AFAICR.
[12:13] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: But I rarely go there these days, very seldom
[12:13] Sheera Khan: If you understand some german here is a detailed way to go for adding functions to LSL:
[12:13] Sheera Khan: https://forum.hypergrid.org/opensim-bugs/erweiterungen-fur-opensim-server-selbstgestrickt-t4517.html
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: It might be partly viewer related. I recently looked to see if there was a message to the grid that stated a chat was closed but I didn't see any such message.
[12:14] Sheera Khan: hmm, I can't confirm that in SL George
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: If remembering the UUIDs for a mutelist can be done within the confines of the OS code that would be preferable to requiring a PHP file.
[12:15] Sheera Khan: closed group chats remain closed in my FS
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Sheera, do they reopen again after you relog when a message is posted to it?
[12:16] Sheera Khan: yes, after a relog a group chat reopens if there was a message
[12:16] Sheera Khan: but during a session a closed window remains closed
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[12:16] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: Not an problem here for me, group chat is far less than in SL  :)
[12:16] James atLLOUD: Best of luck with the chat thing. I feel like I've also experienced this in SL, but can't be sure. I have to leave for another meeting. thank you for this time!
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, James.
[12:17] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: cu James
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: If you want to talk more about implement extra cam features, you can talk about it in the IRC channels.
[12:17] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: I'll keep a close eye on the chat thing next time I visit SL
[12:18] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: Should be on my way too. Thanks for discussion, always interesting
[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. If there isn't anything much more for today we can wrap things up.