Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-30

[11:00] Sheera Khan: So great to see lots of progress in GIT ant Mantis :-)
[11:01] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ubit! My favorite physics programmer!
[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sheera, it is.
[11:02] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: Awesome kite kayaker :)
[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: oh, cool.
[11:02] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Thanks!
[11:03] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Who knew there would be enough wind from the open side of this building to allow you to fly a kite.  :)
[11:03] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: took security precautions...
[11:03] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: :)
[11:04] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I started scripting it to use the wind, but it is more fun to just direct it back and forth
[11:04] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: It's right in front of my camera now - how fun.
[11:05] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: Look great!
[11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit has been a bit of a one man coding machine the last few weeks. Lots of commits from him fixing all sorts of issues.
[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: impressive!
[11:06] Sheera Khan: really it is :-)
[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: For those of you who are using git master I was wondering if you have noticed any issues with uploading mesh objects.
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: and breaking who knows how many ;)
[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not really
[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, shh.
[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :)
[11:08] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have a question about HG landmarks and adresses. Some old landmarks I made still work, like the one that got me here from Kitely.
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: oops :)
[11:08] Sheera Khan: Is there a special reason why we can move an avatar via script to a specific position but not turn it to an arbitrary direction? Like it could be used in a hugging animation?
[11:08] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: but new landmarks never seem to work for HG
[11:09] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: What has changed?
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: i add code to turn the avatar to the lookAT in local osteleports
[11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Are they the same style of HG LM's?
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: possible in others... but on same viewers may have a diferent idea
[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hm... nm. I'm thinking of externally supplied links to places in the hyperverse
[11:11] Sheera Khan: I was thinking of a hugger where two people walk to a common place (or one walks up to the other) and then gets/gives a hug
[11:11] Sheera Khan: so TPs won't do the trick so easily ...
[11:12] Sheera Khan: but the turn to lookAt at TP is very useful too :-) just in other applications
[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, Do the new HG LMs give any error messages when you try to use them?
[11:12] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Often a LM to the welcome area in another grid works, but a direct LM to a region in the same grid does not.
[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh, but that could be the grid not allowing direct HG teleports
[11:14] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I forget not responding, TP fails...
[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only to the default or welcome region
[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, That is one possible reason. The way to test that would be to try an HG TP to the LM using the map.
[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Robust has a NodirectLogin setting for Hypergrid
[11:18] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: So bug the grid admin in that case, see if they did it on purpose
[11:19] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.9.0.0 Dev 4e1784d: 2016-08-30 08:56:35 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:20] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: so is lookAt specified in a teleport?
[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sheera, I would have to check the LSL and OSSL functions. I'm not sure if there is a method of specifying a rotation when moving an avatar. It would be useful for a hugger.
[11:21] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: landmarks have a lookAT no?
[11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: IIRC, yes but until recently the code has been ignoring that info.
[11:22] vegaslon plutonian: you can specify a rotation on a npc but not a avatar right now
[11:22] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: is ignored in SL too i think.
[11:22] Sheera Khan: yes, that's why I asked if there's a reason why such a function is missing
[11:23] Sheera Khan: or if I overlooked the one capable of doing so
[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sheera, Probably just that no one has thought to implement such a function
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it might have something with animation start too
[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I will have to pull up the function list and also look at a hugger script I have.
[11:24] Sheera Khan: SL is lacking that too, so I thought there might be a reason for it
[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not to get arkward jumps / moves
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: is lookAt is a osteleport parameter
[11:24] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I seem to recall that one of the TP functions has a lookat, but it doesn't work
[11:24] Sheera Khan: yes, I just looked it up
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: it does tell the viewer to set that camera to it
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: i made it also rotate the avatar
[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: You can set the rotation if you use llSitTarget.
[11:26] Sheera Khan: hmmm, so I could osTeleport to the same position I'm at and rotating the avatar by that call?
[11:26] vegaslon plutonian: you can also in SL rotate a avatar with rotational impulses
[11:27] Sheera Khan: but that would only work in the case where I'm on a parcel where the owner owns the scripted hugger too
[11:27] Sheera Khan: ok, that might work too @vega
[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ApplyRotationalImpulse only works in physics enabled objects
[11:29] vegaslon plutonian: avatars are physical
[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hm... true
[11:32] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: Is this the related issue? http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7931
[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I will have to track down a hugger I have in inventory somewhere and take alook at what it does.
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: yes i added the rotation for that mantis
[11:34] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: ty.
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: ( didn't test that much.. )
[11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I haven't had much time for code work in the past week due to family related activities.
[11:38] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: Is it silly to ask Ubit.. how did you choose to work on this issue?
[11:38] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: Sorry guys, got to go... will read transcript.
[11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I recently updated the template used by the OSSL pages to includes two pieces of information that were not included when the OSSL function pages were first created.
[11:39] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: The lookAt in TP has bothered me before and I'm glad it could work - trying to guide avatars and all.
[11:40] Basil Sosides: diva.mysql.dll dont work any more ?
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: the diva stuff tends to only work on the release
[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: having look at will be useful for landing points where you want people to be facing towards a particular item or landmark.
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: so if you are trying to use it on a -dev version it may fail Basil
[11:41] Basil Sosides: ok
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise diva would be recompiling and making new releases constantly
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: its just too much work for her
[11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Basil, it was working for you but now it isn't or are you setting it up for the first time?
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: once 0.9 release hits though she will make a compatible version of WiFi available to everyone
[11:42] Basil Sosides: is Diva sleeping ?
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: shes probably working at the moment :)
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: she is on California time
[11:43] Basil Sosides: oh, yes she will
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately there was a lot of changes from 0.8.2 to 0.9, well only unfortunate in that its very likely it would stop diva stuff from working
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise its a lot of good stuff :)
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: I am sure she is aware though
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: we are planning on upgrading Encitra grid to 0.9
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: so shes going to have to fix it at some point soon :)
[11:45] Basil Sosides: other Question please
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: sure
[11:45] Basil Sosides: why must i confirm Friendship more and more
[11:45] Basil Sosides: when i relog
[11:45] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: oh yes
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: i assume you mean for HG friends
[11:46] Basil Sosides: NO !!! Friend inside OSgrid
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: you have to accept the friendship on both grids
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: hmm I am not sure
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: I know for HG friends you have to accept the friendship on both grids
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: you should not have to do that though if both users are in the same grid
[11:46] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sounds odd. I've never had to accept friend requests more than once within a grid.
[11:46] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: oh wow - I did not know that.
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: it could be that you were perhaps at one point outside of the grid
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: and then coming back in is causing wierdness
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: would have to figure out exactly what the trigger is though
[11:47] Basil Sosides: me and my Friend canceled the Friedship
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: ( landpoints lookAt should rotate the avatar also now... but didn't test)
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: its possible there is a bad entry in the database
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: let Dan Banner know
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: he can fix it for you if its endless loop
[11:48] Basil Sosides: but i must confirm it when i login
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: err better have lookAt..Z = 0
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ok ya shoot Dan Banner a message
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: he has a query he can run to fix you
[11:48] Basil Sosides: #- OK ! -#
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: as long as you are talking about OSGrid :)
[11:48] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, you don't want people looking down at their feet?
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: if it's another grid you would have to talk with their grid admin
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: viewers set 0 also
[11:48] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: regarding friending - can offer/accept be done on a grid not home to either avatar?
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: or smoke
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: James should be able to yes
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: but again you will have to accept friendship once in that grid
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: and then once again when you get back home
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: that is correct behavior
[11:50] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ok ty, I will try that.
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if you keep getting friendship offer on every log in
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: then thats a bug, we havent figured out why that happens
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: actuall warp3d also add a bug when looking up or down
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: but it can be fixed by removing an entry from the friends table in the back end database
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: usually its a double entry
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if i recall correctly
[11:51] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: ah, that could be my issue too.
[11:51] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm happy to see that warp3d tiles no longer have the white strip down the right hand end of the tile.
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: yea its like there is 2 entries in the db
[11:51] Basil Sosides: yes must be something like this Neb
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: and you accept the friendship
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: andit only updates one of them
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: so its and endless loop
[11:52] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes - that a symptom I have too.
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but so far no one has figured out why the double entry happens
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: its most definitely something related to HG
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sounds like there should be a constraint on the database to only allow one pair of requests at any time
[11:52] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: @warp3d - is there a public grid to see the tile engine at work?
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: the OSgrid release has that tile enabled by default
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: just look at this region on the maptile
[11:53] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: OK - ty :)
[11:53] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: nebadon, sounds a bit like the problem that used to happen with duplicate entries in the GridUser table.
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yea
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: if i had to guess it's some kind of wierdness when a local user exits the grid
[11:54] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: nebadon, I added an extra constraint on the table to eliminate that.
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: then comes back into the grid
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: and accepts a local friendship
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: it thinks its still in HG mode
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: so both requests get sent to OSgrid server
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: but no one has been able to actually trigger it on demand
[11:54] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Some situation where the avatar didn't log out properly before returning?
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: so some other factor too
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is likely more prone to it
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: ie. viewer crash
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: since things are so spread out
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: and so many different versions of simulators
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: it may not even be a bug we can fix
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: short of forcing the entire grid to update
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: which isnt really an option
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: If multiple entries are found in the DB it is worth comparing the two. If they are identical you can work around the issue by adding a unique specifier to one of the database tables.
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: thats the thing
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think they are exactly identical
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. That is a problem.
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: one is in HG form, other is in Local form
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: but they point to the same user
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: and when you accept it only updates one of them
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: so everytime you log back in
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: it thinks oh this is a new friend
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: That would require a different type of search of the db to see if an entry exists in any form before adding in an entry.
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... Could the issue also arise if someone HG TP'ed to a grid then locally joined the grid at the same time?
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: vegas seen ubode mouse steer ?
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I'd like to see steer by 3D mouse for an airplane.  :)
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: wear a damm good helmet :p
[12:00] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: lol
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: haha
[12:00] vegaslon plutonian: yes
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[12:01] vegaslon plutonian: flying a airplanes with a joystick in sl/opensim is very rewarding
[12:02] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I've tried flying a plane via keyboard. It doesn't end well.
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: ufff i could not move a thing at sl
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: special with bank
[12:03] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I've got kayaks and surfboards you can steer by turning your head while wearing the Occulus
[12:03] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: Oculus? What viewer do you use?
[12:03] vegaslon plutonian: banking in secondlife works terrible on cubes have to make tires or have it be a boat or helicopter
[12:05] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ctrlaltdelete viewer
[12:05] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: ty :)
[12:05] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Oculus dev2, old viewer
[12:05] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: color me impressed :)
[12:07] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: I've tried with VRridge/riftCAT for cardboard but no luck so far.
[12:07] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: @map tiles - I see a tile in the mini-map but not in world map. Does engine supply both?
[12:08] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: The oculus is in mouselook mode, llGetCameraRot is the direction you are looking
[12:08] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: decay your velocity vector towards that direction, and a boat turns nicely
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: ah that's another problem with Map
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: HG visitors may not see external grid maptiles
[12:09] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: wow. ty Kayaker.
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: i forgot about that
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: however
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: http://my.osgrid.org/region.php?region_name=Wright%20Plaza
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: there you go :)
[12:10] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I can see the map tile in the map with FS 4.7.9
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: yea I think that bug may be limited to Singularity viewer
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: i can't remember now
[12:10] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: OH. huh. I'm in FS 4.7.7
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: it also may be how the other grid is configured
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: Metro and OSgrid are very similar
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: Kitely is a tad bit different
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: on the back end
[12:11] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ah yes Kitely. I wondered.
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: it could just be that Kitely isnt running the latest code yet too
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: some values of vehicle parameters cause instability
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: it wouldnt make sense for Kitely to be on the -dev branch
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: where as Metro and OSgrid are
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: i did internally increased the verticalAtractor time scale
[12:12] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Metro is mostly 0.8.3 though
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: ok
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: It is past the hour. I need to log out and attend to some family things.
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am not sure, i do remember there being issues with HG and maptiles
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: its possible in newer code it is fixed though
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: The rest of you are welcome to continue the meeting. Sheera is logging the meeting.
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: or the hoverbije test would be unstable
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: I need to get back to work myself
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: ive actually been working this whole time
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: have 2 viewers side by side 50% of the screen each
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: doing alot of repetative texturing
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: so wasnt too distracting :)
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: ty, Sheera.
[12:13] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Kitely is still on 0.8.2
[12:13] vegaslon plutonian: ya that is alot of trees
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: btw vegas this ubOde does anything similar to sl ?
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: ok well it could very well just be a slight skew in code versions
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt take much
[12:14] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: Thanks everyone.
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: and this is one of the things that really can complicate finding bugs
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: because sometimes the bugs are already fixed
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: but they linger for a long time
[12:14] vegaslon plutonian: as you know there is a lot of spring to the movement in SL
[12:15] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: I'm gonna find my os avatar and look at the maps again.
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: whats wrong with maps ?
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: he cant see the OSgrid map tiles
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: from a HG Kitely user
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: HG only uses the assets maps
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: if i remember
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: HG does not suport V2 maps
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya maybe that is it
[12:17] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: then why can I see the maps?
[12:17] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I'm on HG too
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: and for some reason osg is refusing the asset map upload on my region
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: bc we still use v2 maps on normal regions
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: i mean v1
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: large regions will show up with normalsize :(
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: well in other words.. we create both v1 and v2 maps
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: HG only sends information about v1 if i remember