Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-02

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[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Nebadon
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: What's wrong with the seat, Gavin?
[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some of the spots will not let me sit
[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably a fluke of some sorts :-)
[11:14] George Equus: Permanent fluke then, been problematic for a long time  ;)
[11:15] George Equus: I had to try three times...
[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so what's up with OSG. Is it just asset server config issues, or something more fundamental?
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: could be stuff is still loading
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: you are talking about this moon chair?
[11:15] George Equus: Hi Neb
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[11:16] George Equus: It probably don't like me...
[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: hello Ubit
[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: scirpt is running a might do loop
[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hi ubit
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:17] George Equus: Hello Ubit
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: there is no loop in these sit scripts on this couch
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: it uses Changed event
[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so a might Change event then
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: maybe, events can be flakey sometimes
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: especially with big loads
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: and 1000s of scripts
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: xengine could really stand to be improved
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: this region is most definitely pushing it to the limits
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Hard to improve it without knowing how it works.
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not sure what we can talk about today. I haven't had time to look at the recent change logs for the code in the last couple of days. I've been dealing with upgrading a grid from 0.8.0 to 0.9.0 and its been a bit of a nightmare and it isn't over yet.
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: but almost.
[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ubit has commited a lot over the last few days
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: this region was updated last night
[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is it still in flux?
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: I noticed textures are loading much faster here now
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, Ubit has been rather busy in the last few weeks.
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks pulls up the changelog
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit's commit messages are as clear as always. :P
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: irony at ths time ? :P
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I like the commit that just says "bug fix". :)
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: well you are a dev, you are suposed to read the respective code
[11:25] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.9.0.0 Dev 908b5e8: 2016-08-02 01:37:47 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I just read the change for that commit. I still can't tell what bug was fixed.
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know the code that well. Perhaps it would make more sense if I saw the change in context.
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: no matter what a commit message says, one ( at least a dev) should look into the code changes
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: things like != -> == should be pretty obvius :P
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: It might when one knows what the code is trying to do.
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: ahh you want commits to be a opensim manual? lol
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: I've been thinking I should be trying to look at the changes being made to try doing a weekly summary like Justin used to do.
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: that would be great Andrew
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, but its hard for me when I don't really understand what the code is doing. I see a change and know it fixes some issue but I don't always know what issue was fixed.
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: usually my "bug fix" are related to mistakes on the previus commits
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: I still have to go through the avn code change summary. I may skip some possibly important changes as I may not recognize the significance of some change.
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: on unrelated comits i usually say a bit more
[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: without writing a novel, the commit messages could sometimes be a bit more explanatory. The code-base is wast and not everyone has intimate knowledge of it.
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: uff no one has
[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: I also know it isn't always easy to explain changes in a one line comment.
[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It allows for a few lines
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: my thing on the upload appearance was bc we missed that cache assets are not updated on a new store for example
[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Well, with git the idea is you have a one line summary then additional details can be below that. I ignore that convention and just write out the details if I have to write more than one line.
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: it is clear... on the floatsame files.. not on core :)
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: well some on code
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: had a fight with someone that did not understand the lledgeofworld new code :)
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: understood
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: well was good.. i had missed a math.sqrt on it :)
[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the question ubit, will this section of the code change a lot more, or does it make sense to deploy and test it?
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: i had several open issues on my mind
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: the http server...
[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I built the code with mono 4.4.1 5 days ago and the CPU issue seems to have gone
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: sessions and groups ims
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: objects ( and avatars) culling options
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: regions culling
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: crossings still not nice
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: yea CPU is definitely better overall
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: however on my Raspberry Pi cpu is still a tad bit higher than it was on 0.8.2
[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: crossings seems to hog a bit. You kondoff jump a meter into the new region on crossing
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I heard someone say that vehicle crossings were better but they had other issues with crossings. i didn't get the specifics.
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: probably still some room for improvement there
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: its definitely better though
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: crossings have issues
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: my Pi2 went from pinned at 99% cpu to pinned at 80%
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: from example a fast return can be nasty
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: and on crossing you may endup under ground
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: also with nasty effects
[11:40] Danger Lytton is Offline
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, how fast? I've sometimes done fast returns when I crossed regions without meaning to do so.
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: ( ubOde may send u up to the sky also bullet )
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: it depends on lag and load
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: if you return and the sending region is still on the crossing code.. outch
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Does it just mess up the avatar or does the region get messed up?
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: usually avatar
[11:43] Danger Lytton is Online
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: it may take 2 relogs or tps to clear it
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, that's annoying but not too bad.
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: you endup sitting in sky and odd things like that
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: last changes on crossing where about reducing or delay of grid services calls
[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ubit, the last time I checked the libode.dylig that is attached in 0007881 is not in master
[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: could you make that happen?
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: for example groups info could take 2 seconds here
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: i don't have tools to create it :(
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is attached to the mantis
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: even last updates to linux where made by dan and mel
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so just copy it in
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: thats for mac right?
[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is one in lib64, but it is a 32-bit library
[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: you need to compile it
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: and give us lol
[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: soI did compile it
[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a dylib is a compiled library
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: source is at opensim-libs git
[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I know :-)
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: cool
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: then it it is ok, we can give it to one of us so we update
[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just move the one in lib64 to lib32
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: mac still have 32b and 64b variants?
[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mono on OS X is only stable in 32 bit
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: err that whould smoke
[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so all the libraries are compiled 32.bit
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: yes but you can't use the 64b on 32
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: thats C not managed code
[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is not a 64 bit build of it
[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is just misplaced
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: oh ?
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: we have so few mac testers
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: the only person I know who has a mac is Melanie, but she doesnt use it for testing opensim
[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I test it
[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: my grid is completely rinnong on OS X with mono
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: so you are telling justin placed the 32b version on the 64b folder?
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the library called libode.dylib in lib64, delete it. It is ancient
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Architectures in the fat file: libode.dylib are: i386 x86_64 ppc7400
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as you see it is compiled for powerpc even
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: outch :)
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: yea long time ago we had IBM people using PPC
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the one attached ty my mantis 7881
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: place it in lib32
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: oh i missed that mantis :(
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: btw you can help fixing the build instructions for mac
[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actually the current instructions worked pretty good
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: ohh cool
[11:54] New Styler: hiya guys
[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I'll watch for changes and build the lib when needed
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: so you say we should drop 64n suport for mac ?
[11:54] New Styler: mind if i ask what this class is about??
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: bc of mono
[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nobody will run mono 64 bit on OS X yet
[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it is old
[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: out of date
[11:55] George Equus: Hi New
[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi New
[11:55] New Styler: hiya
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: New Styler, it isn't a class. This is the weekly Open Simulator developer meeting where we discuss issues relating to the project. All are welcome to attend.
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: ( why was i alone at that corner? :) )
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: We are coming up on the top of the hour.
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: No idea, Ubit.
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, anything new and exciting happening in the world of viewer development?
[11:57] George Equus: I need to go on the hour sharp ish
[11:57] New Styler: mind if i bring something in or are you all on something special atm?
[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: IDK what to say :-O
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, George. ty for dropping in.
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: you seen that mantis about avatarhover?
[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we built a version of Kokua with the vlc plugin for Windows
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: Gavin if you are interested
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, np. I just like to give some people working on other issues a chance to pass along information.
[11:58] George Equus: Always interesting to listen in even if mostly "geek talk" to me  :)
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: Singularity team is looking for someone who can compile Mac viewer for tem I think
[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Nebadon I tried
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: no luck eh?
[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe
[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: bummer
[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the problem is the LL code is such a moving target at the moment, we have problems keeping up
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, what was the problem with building Sing for Mac?
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: well DIva closed that avatarhover mantis with a coment to look for something
[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it just doen't build on xcode 7.3
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: we just don't suport that...
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: New Styler you can talk about anything that is OpenSim releated
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: the region setting i mean
[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no viewer at all is building on Xcode 8
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: bugs, or development stuff is what we mostly discuss here
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: but really anything on the topic of opensimulator is ok :)
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: and we do not send it on appearance field
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: but IT DOES work :)
[12:00] New Styler: is there also a way to improve stability of the grid itself?
[12:00] George Equus: OK ta ta all cu
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: bc it is also on a visualparamenter
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: you mean OSGrid? or just opensimulator in general?
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: so that does sound like ll junk
[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some of the viewers will not work on OS X 10.12 that is now in public beta
[12:00] New Styler: i think the grid itself can be more stable
[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: code is too old, and Sing is kindoff in that category
[12:00] New Styler: is that a hardware related issue the instabillity?
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: you mean the downtime for OSgrid I assume?
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: our problems are not directly related to opensimulator itself
[12:01] New Styler: yes
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: but the netwrok cluster File system we are using
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: ( stable grids? you are a dreamer ;) )
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: there is a bug in CentOS 6
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks grins at Ubit
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: we are actually running the asset servers through diagnostics right now
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: Caster passed with flying colors yesterday
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: our asset servers are named Castor and Pollux
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: cute
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: Pollux is under going diagnostics today
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: and will probably have one of its 6tb drives replaced
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: hmm our banks passed stress tests with flying color
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: and BUMMM
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: howwever this doesnt address the bug in the cluster app
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: for that we are in the short term going to switch the asset cluster into a standalone mode
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: so instead of load balancing between both servers
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: it will just be 1 server active
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: the other will be a clone
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: that we can how swap if the primary has issues
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks thinks its a good thing Nebadon isn't wearing his Alien avatar today.
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: that should reduce downtime by a lot
[12:03] New Styler: lol
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: long term goal is to upgrade both servers to CentOS 7
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: and get back on load balancing
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: 1 server really should be sufficient for the grids needs though
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: for the short term
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: How long do think it will take to get all that done, nebadon?
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: the more important thing is the data is being backed up
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure Andrew
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: Melanie and Dan are dealing with that
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: until Avination is back online
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: we probably wont even consider the CentOS upgrades
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: some may say centOS is a downgrade :)
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: however from this point forward
[12:05] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: neb you are a cloud
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: downtime should be reduced considerably
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: to stable software
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: i am rebaking
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: maybe that will help :)
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon looked fine to me
[12:06] New Styler: another thing that came up wich came up by a few is the voice issue in ims. is there a way to improve that or any fix to do a multiple voicecall in ims?
[12:06] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: 00
[12:06] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: something has happened to my clothes
[12:06] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: wth?
[12:06] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: 00
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: those are broken
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Welcome, Zayden
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: not easily New Styler
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: we don't have multiple IMs sessions
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: Zayden
[12:07] Ubit Umarov: even groups ims are.. well ...
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: its best to put your entire outfit into your Suitcase
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: when you are traveling
[12:07] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: ok
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: its much more reliable that way
[12:07] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: ok
[12:07] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: and i can just create a folder called "Suitcase" under inventory and toss it in there.
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: New, by multiple voice calls in IM do you mean being able to privately chat in voice with more than one person at the same time (ie. conference call)?
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: You should already have a suitcase folder
[12:08] New Styler: yes i mean that
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: it gets created on your first HG teleport
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: yes andrew
[12:08] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002 is Online
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: one to one seems to work
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: if this was your first HG teleport ever
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: even with voice
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: it wont show up untuil you log out and back in again
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: but conference.. total brokne
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I've never done private voice chats and have not heard of someone doing one with multiple people.
[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I guess OpenSim use the same vivox server backend as Linden lab does?
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cause theya re about to make major changes
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: but we are not given access to the SDK source or Documentation
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: we do a lot of guessing
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I know there was an issue that may have been viewer related as to who can initiate private voice chat call.
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: you can't do multiple ims andrew no code for them
[12:09] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: oh.
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: everyone who uses Vivox on OpenSim
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: sshares teh same Vivox cloud account
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: 25,000 users per node
[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that's what I thought
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: we get 1 node
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: thing is that only groups ims where considered
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: and code for them are on each groups moduie
[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so with the changes they have planned, any viewer that don't get the new code will not have voice support any more
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: that is wrong
[12:10] New Styler: is there a differents in code with example sl and os?
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: also groups im are session IMs...
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: it will probably always support old viewers
[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and the new code don't run on Linux
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: SL probably like 75% of their users use old viewers
[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it will not support old viewers
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, that's going to be a problem for me. I don't run anything but Linux.
[12:11] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002 is Online
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: well, 99.99% of the time.
[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they are trying to get it running on wine
[12:11] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: oh i'd imagine even that will eventually change.
[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but IDK if that will be possible at all
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: you are talking about vivox?
[12:11] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: change is the only constant.
[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: my guess is the old viewers will probably still work
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: but just not be able to communicate with new viewers
[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have said they wont
[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no voice support for old viewers
[12:13] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: perhaps we should hold meetings on the roof.
[12:13] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: one sec.
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: well what i mean is old viewers will be able to talk to each other
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: but not to new viewers
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: or on a empty flat region :)
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: What will it take to get Linux supported once more?
[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does not initiating a session involve a server?
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: actually from what I heard its just LL wont support the linux version anymore
[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we don't know Andrew
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: but they will allow TPVs to make the linux client work
[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL has suggested trying to get the windows version running in wine
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: my guess is that wont work so well
[12:14] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: that is really neer a good alternative.
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: i heard its vivox that is also dropig linux
[12:15] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: and none of us knows how to write a voice server
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: you can't
[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, there will not be any Linux support is the word out of LL
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Sounds like we need an alternative to Vivox.
[12:15] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: there is one
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: its a patented sistem etc etc
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: well
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: thats not totally true
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: someone in theory could use MOAP
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: mumble used to work
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Might be a good time to get Mumble working and whatever the other part of that is.
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: for voice solution
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: just a pain viewer side
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: or TPVs would have to integrate new voice module
[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Telegraph client built into the viewer
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: like Mumble or something
[12:16] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: we coudl use teamspeak
[12:16] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: or mumble
[12:16] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: or whisper
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: mumble needs viewer integration to be usefull for most users
[12:16] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: or freeswitch
[12:16] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: the last 3 are all opens ource vivox alternatives
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: well all of those :)
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: now that the viewer isnt using hacky webclient anymore
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi whispers: may be possible to use the chrome stuff to do voice eventually
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: we can't ask users to replace the llVoice each time they go to sl and back to pensim
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: may be possible to use the chrome stuff to do voice eventually
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Freeswitch was always a pain to get running
[12:17] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: wanna use whisper? mumble? freespeak?
[12:18] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: necessity is the mother of invention
[12:18] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: which means whn you need something you make it
[12:18] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: now this is needed b/c vivox is dropping support for linux
[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it gets down to codecs
[12:18] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: well linux is open source
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: i was using mumble before vivox
[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if they are licensed for open source or not
[12:18] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: i know you were.
[12:18] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: see ubit was using mumble.
[12:18] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: tell them what happened next ubit.
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: worked but was a pain for users
[12:19] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: see?
[12:19] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: it had a difficult user experience.
[12:19] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: but it DID work.
[12:19] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: as i have said to many who cared to experience my information.
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: I wonder if the new chrome stuff has HTML5 voice stuff
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: like firefox and chrome would have
[12:19] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: there is always away if you just leave.
[12:19] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: * a way * believe
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: if the viewer has WebRTC stuff then it could be possible maybe eventually
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: to do a P2P voice solution
[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the CEF plugin currently use QuickTime on Windows and OS X
[12:20] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: why is webrtc so bad ?
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: well its young
[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they are rewriting the Window one to use VLC
[12:20] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: there is something about webrtc that is super bad... oh yes... it allows even users of vpn's to be identified.
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: webrtc is in infancy still
[12:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the idea is that the Linux version will do the same
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: thats only because its so new
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: webRTC will eventually get more secure
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: but i can tell you right now
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: vivox is not secure
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: even a little
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:21] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: read my lips... webrtc tattles on vpn endpoints.
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: vivox is probably one of the most shady companies on earth
[12:21] New Styler: they sell drugs too?
[12:21] New Styler: lolz
[12:22] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: they probably have an entire room dedicated to my adventures.
[12:22] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: :O
[12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the new vivox client will close the security issues, they say
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: its nearly impossible to tell who actually owns Vivox
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: they did some wierd sale a year or two ago
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: and its been super shady ever since then
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, rewriting which Windows thing to use VLC?
[12:22] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: dont worry unless it is hillary clinton.
[12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but is not licensed / built for Linux
[12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the CEF plugin
[12:22] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: why dont we just use opensource tools
[12:22] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: keep it all opensource...
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: yea the HTML5 stuff though its super new
[12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Crome Extensible Framewrok
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: eventually it will get more secure and better
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: have to start some where though
[12:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which now handles html data and media in some viewers such as Kokua
[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, ok. VLC is available for Linux so that part won't be an issue.
[12:23] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: bam ...
[12:23] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: vlc
[12:23] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: bam...
[12:24] dj phil is Online
[12:24] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: i have a solution...
[12:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL says if there is a Linux VLC version it will be 64-bit only
[12:25] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: in the spirit of progressivism i see that.
[12:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we probably will have to build it ourselves
[12:25] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: but... 64 bit graphics in linux leaves a bit to be desired...
[12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, that's ok. I've switched to a 64-bit Linux.
[12:25] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: ( no pun intended)
[12:25] Nebadon Izumi: actually
[12:25] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.9.0.0 Dev 908b5e8: 2016-08-02 01:37:47 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[12:25] Nebadon Izumi: 32 bit linux will be totally gone soon in general
[12:26] Nebadon Izumi: OpenSuSe Leap is already 64 only
[12:26] Nebadon Izumi: Ubuntu is talking about v18 being 64 bit only
[12:26] Nebadon Izumi: in the next 3 years 32 bit linux will be gone 100%
[12:26] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: yes. as a general knowledge for all...
[12:26] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: i was able to run opensim on slitaz linux using 256 meg of ram.
[12:26] Nebadon Izumi: no doubt some people will try to maintain 32 bit versions
[12:26] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: only 3 people could be on the sim with scripts and things built
[12:26] Nebadon Izumi: btu all mainstream linux it will be gone
[12:26] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: and that was on a pentium 3 800 mhz
[12:27] Andrew Hellershanks: There used to be a few common apps running under Linux that were 32-bit only. One of those was the Acrobat reader. Since Adobe no longer supports a Linux version that app no longer matters that much.
[12:27] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: running slitaz linux (fastest linux on earth)
[12:27] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: also...
[12:27] Nebadon Izumi: yea from what i hear its becoming more and more difficult to maintain 32 bit stuff
[12:27] Nebadon Izumi: because of linux kernel changes
[12:27] Nebadon Izumi: not surprising really
[12:27] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: if you all know searidge... movlab.. well he has made a rasberry pi software image that lets people run opensim on rasberry pi.
[12:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bumpy landcape ahead :-))
[12:27] Nebadon Izumi: most new hardware is going 64 bit
[12:28] Nebadon Izumi: I have opensim running one of my Pi's
[12:28] Nebadon Izumi: you can visit it here on OSGrid
[12:28] Nebadon Izumi: "OKC Raspberry Pi2"
[12:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Zayden, nebadon is already running OS on a Pi
[12:28] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: the pi has 4 cores, cost 30 dollars, and can run 6 sims, and uses 5 watts of electricity (compare to 500 watt pc power supply)
[12:28] Nebadon Izumi: i dont know about 6 sims
[12:28] Nebadon Izumi: i have a 768x768 var
[12:28] Nebadon Izumi: 1gb ram is quite limiting
[12:28] Nebadon Izumi: you could run a single var
[12:28] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: do you have the same image that movlab searidge does?
[12:28] Nebadon Izumi: but running 6 single sims i dont think so
[12:29] Nebadon Izumi: I made my own image
[12:29] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: well i mean regions
[12:29] New Styler: i believe that 32 bit will slowly move down the picture and its already going down fast cause most newer software will go mostly by 64 bit if i pay attemntion well enough
[12:29] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec
[12:29] Nebadon Izumi: i have a tutorial for you
[12:29] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: and he has heavily adjusted it
[12:29] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: but it works fantastic according to them
[12:29] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.s-config.com/opensimraspberry-pi-rasbian-hard-float-works/
[12:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you should be able to run it on a watch with the output going to glasses
[12:29] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: yes i have seen it all.
[12:29] Nebadon Izumi: ya its not bad
[12:29] Nebadon Izumi: having 2gb ram would be nicer :)
[12:29] Nebadon Izumi: i hope raspberry pi eventually makes a 2gb version
[12:30] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: if you join the pi's, to make a doubledecker you have more ram in your pi
[12:30] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: finally.
[12:30] Nebadon Izumi: well
[12:30] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, probably just a question of time before they do
[12:30] Nebadon Izumi: opensim wont run well in a cluster
[12:30] Nebadon Izumi: cluster apps have to be written to specifically run in cluster config
[12:30] Nebadon Izumi: still
[12:30] Nebadon Izumi: its a fun project
[12:30] Andrew Hellershanks: I wonder how much ram they have in the Banana Pi
[12:30] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: i would like to tell you all that yesterday i saw someone has made adjustable glasses, i think we should get a pair in case someone loses their glasses, we can just give them the adjustable ones. the power/strength can be changed by dials on the sides.
[12:31] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIOcotKGsDg
[12:31] Nebadon Izumi: it depends on the model of banana pi
[12:31] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: i go.
[12:31] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: have fun everyone.
[12:31] Nebadon Izumi: the odroic oc-2 is supposed to be better
[12:31] Andrew Hellershanks: It is now half past. Any other last thoughts before we wrap up todays meeting?
[12:31] Nebadon Izumi: i looked at a pine64 but wasnt too impressed
[12:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Isn't that more expensive?
[12:31] Nebadon Izumi: they have quality issues
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: yes the odroid is like 59$
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: USD
[12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: um... the Odoid I mean
[12:32] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: still its under 100$
[12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: There is also the $9 CHiP but I don't remember how much RAM it has.
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: the best one overall is the lattepanda
[12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Haven't heard of that one
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: they have a quad core with 4gb ram
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: its 130$ though
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: still
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: and its also x86
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: not arm
[12:33] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, 45 UK pounds for the lattepanda.
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.lattepanda.com/
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: yea
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: they have 2 versions
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: a 2gb and a 4gb ram
[12:33] Andrew Hellershanks: that puts it over $100 for me.
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: yea
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: its a bit more expensive
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: but its far more powerful thana pi is too
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: its a quad core atom
[12:33] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[12:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Time to call the meeting to a close for today.
[12:34] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a cat calling for me. :)
[12:34] Nebadon Izumi: I like raspberyr pi though its a fun machine
[12:34] Nebadon Izumi: yea
[12:34] Nebadon Izumi: i should be working actually myself
[12:34] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thanks everyone
[12:34] New Styler: anybody that could help me out after this meeting?
[12:35] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: thanks everyone
[12:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya until next week
[12:35] Andrew Hellershanks: I want to get back to work on the AVR software I'm developing using my Pi.
[12:35] Nebadon Izumi: have fun all
[12:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bye
[12:35] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002 is Offline
[12:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for dropping by. See you again next week.
[12:35] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.6 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..
[12:35] Nebadon Izumi: is anyone doing the log on wiki?

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