Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-19

[11:00] Sheera Khan: I know it's none of your bees, but I've got a question regarding Firestorms handling of logins
[11:01] James.AtLLOUD @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hello - is this the Opensim dev meeting?
[11:01] Sheera Khan: whenever I log into an OS based grid it tells me it's checking the cache
[11:01] Sheera Khan: it takes 15 secs...
[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have seen that
[11:02] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Yes James
[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and I don't understand why
[11:02] Sheera Khan: whether there are 2G of cache or cache is empty - doesn't matter
[11:02] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: FS do some local cache check, real pain
[11:02] Sheera Khan: ok, I don't either ..
[11:02] Sheera Khan: that's what I wanted to change ^^
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: now that is annoying in alchemy. wich setting. if you like to cam and click the camera is moving very fast to the point you clicked
[11:03] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I asked FS on there forum and received null reply
[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you have to change viewer for that, haha
[11:03] Sheera Khan: in Windows it's a real PITA, under Linux it's a 15 sec delay
[11:03] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hello, everyone. Hm... is it that time of the week again already? ;)
[11:04] Sheera Khan: yes, the null reply was what get's me to askong Garvin ...
[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Maybe it has to do with the ability to use local textures
[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but it might be something else
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi billy, the profile error is annoying. not sure if alchemy have the problem too. what problem you talk about billy ?
[11:04] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I was trying to trace the viewer crash problem when the source and destination regions used the same location,
[11:04] George Equus: Was just reading a bit on the Alchemy viewer. Look interesting. Anyone here using it by any chance? said to handle Mesh upload better than FS.....
[11:04] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: but FS is such a pain
[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I tested the latest build briefly
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, FS still works nicer then alchemy at some parts. missing the pie menu more then i think
[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: on 0.9 dev it does a massive map lookup that almost kills the server
[11:05] George Equus: Hate the pie... very clumsy IMHO
[11:05] Sheera Khan: O_o ...
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: only problem FS have is red map tiles on var
[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am sure there is a switch to change to a normal menu
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not test it with alchemy.
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Gavin. in alchemy i don't expect it. it's more based on SL viewer
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i dig other time in the settings
[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: SL viewer does not have pie menus any more
[11:07] George Equus: Thinking of taking Alchemy for a spin
[11:07] George Equus: no pie menu  :)
[11:08] George Equus: Matter of taste in the end I suppose
[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Pie is easy for shallow menus
[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but they can be a pain to navigate when they are deep as they run out of space
[11:08] George Equus: uhum
[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there was one interesting point in the Alchemy release notes as of today
[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: let me fetch it
[11:09] Sheera Khan: another question regarding the server development if I may ...
[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Go ahead, Sheera
[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Utilize upcoming currency-buy-uri OpenSim sim feature
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i closed it by accident lol. wanted to read it
[11:10] Sheera Khan: Has the development of 0.9 come to an end?
[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: this sounds like anew feature
[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: has anyone heard about it
[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I guess it requires Robust support
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: good question, would like to know how far where away from r elease
[11:10] Sheera Khan: A CR safari doesn't seem that critical to me...
[11:11] Sheera Khan: and if a core dev doesn't have any fancier bugs to chase ...
[11:11] Sheera Khan: that looks like it's going to be ready..
[11:11] Sheera Khan: or do I see that wrong?
[11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Not sure how far uOde is
[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I got the link to the ODE code from Dan and recompiled it for OS X and submitted via Mantis
[11:12] Kayaker Magic: I have a half a dozen show-stopping mantises in 0.9, I don't think it is ready for release
[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so now both ODE and ubode runs on OS X for 0.9
[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 0.9 is not ready for release IMO
[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The CR safari isn't critical but it is one of those code maintenance things that needs doing occasionally to avoid problems down the line with applying changes to files.
[11:13] Sheera Khan: but the git-logs are sparse to say the least ...
[11:13] Sheera Khan: I agree, but honestly...
[11:14] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Mantis 7879 Avatar walk-up-stairs parameters - remove "f", not supported... Is that changed required with pre 0.9 releases?
[11:14] Sheera Khan: tell me how you want the CRs done and I'll do it ...
[11:14] Sheera Khan: just to save a core dev the task and the time to do more important things
[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what means CR
[11:14] Sheera Khan: Carriage Return
[11:15] James.AtLLOUD @grid.kitely.com:8002 flüstert: had the same question @richardus
[11:15] Sheera Khan: the line breaks
[11:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha that CR
[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I was about to say there is an app for that
[11:18] Kayaker Magic: Eureka!
[11:18] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Things we are looking at are all HG related, like avi scripts not starting on arrival to a new grid
[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Line endings should be in the native format for the operating system. When text files are pushed to the repo only the new lines should be saved but some files were saved with CR and LF endings. Not noticable to Windows users but it can become an issue under Linux.
[11:19] Kayaker Magic: Anybody here ever gone to the Moses office meeting on Mondays? I've tried twice and nobody else was there.
[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, yes. Under Linux you can just run dos2unix to fix line endings.
[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Windows is the sinner here
[11:19] Sheera Khan: looks like a tr command in linux could solve that ^^
[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Use of tr can do the same thing. It is easier to use dos2unix unless you know the proper use of tr.
[11:20] Sheera Khan: or sed for that matter ^^
[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just make an alias similar to this: alias m2u="tr '\015' '\012' "
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Billy, is there a mantis about that issue?
[11:22] Sheera Khan: @Kayaker, I didn't go to the Moses office
[11:22] Kayaker Magic: won't that alias double the newlines in files with dos CRLF?
[11:22] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I think so, been around quite a while
[11:22] Sheera Khan: I'd use: tr -d '\015'
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I said similar because this is to convert old OS X LF to Unix LF
[11:23] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Anyone use a setting other than the default FlotsamCache.ini ;FileCleanupTimer = 1.0  ;every hour ?
[11:23] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i wish i could fix the wrong url on objects. wrong slash and opensim gives error but not smart enough to fix it
[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'd go with Sheera's suggestion. You want to strip CR from text files in Linux and OS X
[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: checking flotsamcache every hour creates a lot of server traffic when it is going on
[11:25] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: yes
[11:25] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: so do you disable it?
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why server traffic ? it's local thing
[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have disabled checking and it runs fine without
[11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it runs on the simulator
[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cache items should just expire and never be checked
[11:27] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: For now, I would recomend that all grids that have outside regions connected disable
[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: unless when fetched as it then needs to check with the server ofr a more recent version
[11:28] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Even internal for that matter
[11:28] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: It is broken Gavin
[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[11:29] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: It attempts to fetch 1200 assets that are not on the asset server :)
[11:30] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: If you do not enable flotsamcache ini by removing the .example, a much shorter time period occurs
[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Billy, sounds like you have another problem if attempts are being made to fetch assets which aren't in the assets table.
[11:30] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: that is also broken
[11:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Not using cache , make things only worse
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew, i have seen asset not found when making OAR to. and that happens for long time
[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if it makes it worse or not depends on how good your operating system / mono combo is to keep stuff in memory
[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: + how much caching the database does
[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Flotsam caching is enabled if AssetCaching is set to FlotsamAssetCache
[11:34] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: WE should have more information next week when we have had more time to look into the issue
[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Richardus, I've seen it too. I hope it is only an possible issue with old assets.
[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Since I moved to Postgres I have never had once a asset table record corrupted. With MySQL it happened - not necessarily often, but it happened
[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, I have one of your Postgres patches in my source tree. There is another I'm looking at that changes a SQL query (#7805) that I'm looking at before applying it. A couple of the others I would like other eyes on as there was a lot of comments in the report.
[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: # 7805 is good to go
[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it works
[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: You didn't capitalize the keywords in the SQL query as was done before. :)
[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Not a big deal. Just makes queries easier to read.
[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all that should be unified
[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org nods
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: postgres. brr. i think not a good manager tool for it to. completely different. and already got enough bad experiences with mariadb in the past
[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Postgres is rock bottom solid
[11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Richardus, there is phppgadmin
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i hope the timestamp error i have seen get washed out too
[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and well maintained
[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I like phpmyadmin but never tried the PG version. So now you have two tools you can take out for a test drive.
[11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: does postgres have workbench gui to manage users and databases etc. ?
[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: http://www.pgadmin.org
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: phpadmin not option here. need to much software to run that
[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or have Navicat
[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: even on your iPad
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Need to be windows. if you not know
[11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Richardus, ok. I always have a webserver running with PHP support so using the php??admin tool is not an issue for me.
[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: pagadmin runs on Win, Linux, OS X
[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Navicat does the same
[11:42] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i see. looks complex :O
[11:42] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: need to look on that a bit later
[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: best installers are here http://www.enterprisedb.com/products-services-training/pgdownload#windows
[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or use your distro installers for Linux if above does not work
[11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: uhh ? not this one ? http://www.postgresql.org/download/windows/
[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that would work too, but the EDB installer is the most complete
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok lol then your link comes
[11:45] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Andrew, during HG travels we see 'Unable to fetch profile data at this time' and appears to be is V1 profile related, any thoughts?
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: robust support postgres to now ?
[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure does
[11:45] Sheera Khan: Could it be made to be ignored in the viewers maybe?
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes Billy, that one need to get fixed
[11:45] Sheera Khan: Like so many other messages?
[11:46] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: in FS your notification widget get spammed
[11:46] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Billy, by V1 profile you are referring to the add on OpenSimProfile module?
[11:46] Sheera Khan: fortunately there's a close all button ;-)
[11:47] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: yes Andrew, I did not know the official title
[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is something a version 3 viewer does when on a grid with OpenSimProfile
[11:48] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok. I rarely travel by HG. I can have a look at the code. I'm not sure what might cause the problem.
[11:48] Sheera Khan: would it be possible to have a checkbox "Ignore this message in the future"?
[11:48] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: User experience for HG travellers can be a bit crappy, trying to do something about it
[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it happens every time you transfer from an "out of the box" opensim to OSGrid
[11:48] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sheera, that would be up to the viewer devs to add the option.
[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: with a version 3 viewer
[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not Singularity
[11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: It did happen also to other place
[11:50] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.9.0.0 Dev ed9d4fe: 2016-04-05 22:53:27 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: many of the older grids run OpenSimProfile
[11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think also that the opensim.ini need to be set default to V2. it's now a bit confusing for people. still trial and error to get groups running
[11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: uhmm, and not good reading :P
[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maybe even newer ones as the wiki is rather confusing on that
[11:51] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: especially one line.. let me look
[11:51] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Richardus, which version of groups are you finding is trial and error to setup? I've used the phpxmlrpc based groups and its easy to do. I haven't tried using core groups.
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: core groups is a bit confusing to set up
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is one line that ban list must be enabled via a php script
[11:52] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hm... I thought the comments were fairly clear about that. It usually indicates what option to use for V2.
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a script that is nowhere to be found (as I know of)
[11:53] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: OpenSimProfile and phpxmlrpc groups require a web server ?
[11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: somewhere here i made a mistake "for V2 Groups, HG, both standalone and gridded sim, use "Groups HG Service Connector""
[11:53] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Billy, yes
[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: or it where this part , why not set the example default to this ?  ;; or ${Const|BaseURL}:${Const|PrivatePort} for robust, V2
[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh wait that is not for standalone.
[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Mabye it would be better to have groups in seperate ini. and just have more inis for different simulator setups ?
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, what do you have as the setting for Module in [Groups]?
[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maybe an OpenSim.ini tailored for a typical standlone configuration and another for a typical grid configuration?
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew, it's working on my offline grid now. it's not the first time i did it. it's not the first time it got wrong too
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i mean, busy to get a new server.
[11:57] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I have been commissioning V2 groups using SQLite as a way into the workings of OpenSim, cannot say the setup is that ambiguous
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, if you can suggest improvements to the comments to make it easier to understand, or can suggest a page for the wiki on setting up core groups, please pass along the ideas.
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Does V2 groups work with postgres and mysql connector ?
[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: works with postgres
[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I suppose it has been properly tested with MySQL
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Ok. i did download it and need to test it local
[11:58] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Rich just SQLite groups V2 missing
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: It should work with either.
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think there's a reason for that.
[12:00] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: re SQLite, Diva said she did not have the time and would leave it for someone else
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Anything else before we go our separate ways until next time?
[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It would be good to get a status on 0.9
[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what remains to be fixed
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I'll see what I can find out.
[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that would be fantastic!
[12:02] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: Also, I'd like to know how I could help out with development.
[12:02] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: and maybe there's a way to "outsource" the details of i.e. CR-safaris ...
[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I hope we are not stalled waiting for avination's viewer project
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: James, Join the opensim development IRC channel, download the code from git, look at the mantis bug reports.
[12:03] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: OK, I watch the Mantis, but haven't checked the IRC channel.
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Sheera, no big deal do do that. Just do a find and in each directory just run dos2unix or tr -d to ensure the files have the right line ending.
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: The only other thought is checking that certain files containing text are being treated as text.
[12:04] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: it's done by now... but maybe next time ...
[12:05] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Sourcecode is text too
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: If git has been told what files contain text and which ones don't it shouldn't happen again.