Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-22

From OpenSimulator

Jump to: navigation, search
[11:05]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'll wait a few more minutes then we can start.
[11:05]  Billy.Bradshaw Clock time have changed for US but not europe
[11:05]  Billy.Bradshaw This coming weekend for europe
[11:06]  Gavin.Hird yep
[11:06]  Andrew Hellershanks: Right so they would be an hour late but I didn't see her even after the hour was up.
[11:06]  Billy.Bradshaw Caught me out last week
[11:06]  Andrew Hellershanks: yea, the timezone change causes issues for a few weeks.
[11:07]  mattie mcbride: follow
[11:07]  Billy.Bradshaw Is there a way to turn off the osggrid-lovely broadcasts :)
[11:07]  Billy.Bradshaw ?
[11:08]  Andrew Hellershanks: There might be but I don't know how and I doubt I have the permissions to do it.
[11:08]  Kayaker Magic: Who has permission to rez here? (besides Neb)
[11:08]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'll wait till 10 after then we can start.
[11:08]  ColonelWilhelm.Klink if you want to show something you can always wear it
[11:09]  Gavin.Hird you can, but it does not always work as expected, haha
[11:09]  ColonelWilhelm.Klink a little editing
[11:09]  ColonelWilhelm.Klink and its all good
[11:10]  Gavin.Hird some meshes have interesting effects when worn…
[11:10]  ColonelWilhelm.Klink I'm looking for a uniform ww2 if anyone knows a place
[11:11]  ColonelWilhelm.Klink I also build tanks planes houses etc etc if anyone needs anything
[11:11]  Gavin.Hird nice, can they be seen anywhwere?
[11:11]  ColonelWilhelm.Klink yes
[11:11]  Andrew Hellershanks: A few more have arrived so we can get the meeting underway.
[11:11]  ColonelWilhelm.Klink Island Oasis
[11:12]  ColonelWilhelm.Klink has 2 of my models main welcome area
[11:12]  Gavin.Hird ok, thanks
[11:12]  Andrew Hellershanks: I was just fixing a bug with FSAssets in git master just before this meeting. I'll commit and push the changes after we are finished here.
[11:12]  Billy.Bradshaw Saw that Andew, nice
[11:13]  Andrew Hellershanks: Who has questions this week?
[11:13]  Gavin.Hird I have submitted 3 or 4 patches for Postgres
[11:13]  Billy.Bradshaw Does anyone run Opensim using Visual Studio debug?
[11:13]  ColonelWilhelm.Klink what kind of questions please
[11:13]  Andrew Hellershanks: Questions related to Open Simulator. :)
[11:13]  ColonelWilhelm.Klink ahhh
[11:13]  Kayaker Magic: This isn't a question, but I like ubODE, so I have been BEATING THE SH*T out of it and submitting Mantises
[11:14]  Gavin.Hird No, I am using Visual Studio Code and it is growing on me, but not tried to run in debug mode with mono yet
[11:14]  Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, ok good. You will be keeping Ubit busy.
[11:15]  Billy.Bradshaw thks Gavin, I see when I run opensim for extended periods it hangs in the console monitor routine
[11:15]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, pass me the mantis numbers after the meeting and I will have a look at them.
[11:15]  Gavin.Hird Viewer related question: Is there a reliable way to query the region for it's dimensions
[11:15]  Andrew Hellershanks: or PM me the numbers
[11:15]  Gavin.Hird sure can do
[11:16]  Gavin.Hird the problem is of course for VAR regions but also the allowed negative build depth
[11:16]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, there may be an OSSL function for that. I'm checking now
[11:16]  Gavin.Hird right but the viewer can't query OSSL direct
[11:17]  Kayaker Magic: There is an OSSL function, but grid managers are scared of the THREAT LEVELS of those functions and often disable them.
[11:17]  Andrew Hellershanks: oh, right. Um... I don't know how the viewer could request the size.
[11:17]  Gavin.Hird ok, so maybe that needs to be worked out
[11:17]  Andrew Hellershanks: osGetRegionSize has a threat level of None
[11:18]  Gavin.Hird if OSSL can give the answer most of that code should exist
[11:18]  Billy.Bradshaw Gavin, I am sure region dimensions included in the exchange data from OpenSim to viewer
[11:18]  Billy.Bradshaw I am checking my notes
[11:18]  Gavin.Hird It is coded as hard or assumptions in all the viewers
[11:18]  Billy.Bradshaw oh
[11:19]  Kayaker Magic: There is a way for a script to find the size of the var without OSSL by calling llGetParcelDetails, but it only works in
[11:19]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, are you working on some viewer side code?
[11:19]  Gavin.Hird Kokua
[11:19]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok
[11:19]  Gavin.Hird I help Nicky doing the Mac version
[11:20]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, are you familiar with WinGridProxy?
[11:20]  Gavin.Hird Not really
[11:21]  Gavin.Hird why?
[11:21]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok. It is a program that is part of libOMV. You can use it as a proxy between a viewer and a grid. It lets you see the messages that pass between the two. It can be useful in debugging things.
[11:22]  Andrew Hellershanks: You could use it to see if any data packet during login sends the region size.
[11:22]  Gavin.Hird right, ok - useful - thanks
[11:22]  Andrew Hellershanks: yw
[11:22]  Billy.Bradshaw Gavin, login response contains this info
[11:22]  Billy.Bradshaw <name>agent_id : 1bddc9db-e7c8-4567-9ebb-9789121dfc0e
<name>look_at : [r0,r1,r0]
<name>region_size_y : 1024
<name>region_size_x : 1024
<name>sim_ip :
[11:22]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, there you go
[11:23]  Gavin.Hird Thanks, I'll see what we can get out of that
[11:23]  Gavin.Hird does it send that info for every teleport?
[11:23]  Gavin.Hird or region crossing
[11:23]  Andrew Hellershanks: Billy, what packet will send that information to a viewer when you change regions?
[11:24]  Billy.Bradshaw not sure, will need to check
[11:24]  Gavin.Hird plus HG transfer too
[11:24]  Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:24]  Andrew Hellershanks: You want a packet with that information to be sent every time you enter a region.
[11:24]  Billy.Bradshaw I din't have that kind of info on this machine
[11:24]  Gavin.Hird exactly Andrew
[11:25]  Andrew Hellershanks: let me have a look at libOMV and see what I can find
[11:25]  Billy.Bradshaw question for Gavin
[11:25]  Gavin.Hird or actually when you see any neighbor region too
[11:25]  Billy.Bradshaw When you have a set of synchronized dancers and you turn away so they are no longer in view, when you return to view again they are all out of sync
[11:25]  Billy.Bradshaw Any thoughts?
[11:25]  Gavin.Hird because the Build edit floater could move an object across a region border
[11:26]  Gavin.Hird and then it needs to know how far it can be moved
[11:26]  Gavin.Hird Ok? - What viewer is that - all?
[11:26]  Billy.Bradshaw FS current
[11:27]  Kayaker Magic: Billy: Standard problem on OpenSim and SL, dancing is distributed to all the PCs. Only thing the server can do is restart all the animations every once in a while.
[11:27]  ColonelWilhelm.Klink 47778706 is the latest fs
[11:27]  Billy.Bradshaw yes Colonel
[11:27]  ColonelWilhelm.Klink 47748706 sorry
[11:27]  Andrew Hellershanks: In OpenSim there is a data packet for region info data.
[11:28]  Gavin.Hird I don't have an answer to that dancing question
[11:28]  Andrew Hellershanks: It contains a lot of data, including the size, about a region. I'm not sure when that is sent out.
[11:28]  Gavin.Hird I'll have to try and see how it behaves in Kokua and Cool VL
[11:28]  Gavin.Hird if the result is the same as FS
[11:29]  Billy.Bradshaw thks Gavin
[11:29]  Gavin.Hird Singularity is unfortunately a bit outdated
[11:29]  Andrew Hellershanks: I still use Sing most of the time now that I've stepped back to the last stable release.
[11:30]  Gavin.Hird It does not have any of the new LL code in it, and there is a LOT of fixes in that code coming every week
[11:31]  Andrew Hellershanks: I find most viewers have bugs or seem out of date.
[11:31]  Andrew Hellershanks: Most of the ones I've tried.
[11:31]  Gavin.Hird they do have bugs :-))
[11:31]  Gavin.Hird but I don't think we are very out of date
[11:32]  Billy.Bradshaw I met Bob Wellman from PMGrid who ask me to raise Mantis 0007838
[11:32]  Andrew Hellershanks: I moved from Kokua to Sinularity quite a long time ago. If it is one of the more actively developed viewers I will have to try it again
[11:32]  Billy.Bradshaw Seems though someone has responded to the mantis though
[11:33]  Gavin.Hird We are up to sync with the LL 4.0.1 code + latest RLV
[11:33]  Gavin.Hird working on the 4.0.2 release now
[11:33]  Andrew Hellershanks: oh, memory size limits. A 2GB limit sounds a bit like the limit with the old 32-bit versions of code.
[11:34]  Billy.Bradshaw I am enjoying the improvements to MOAP with V4
[11:34]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, ok. I'll grab a copy of it and give it a try (if you still have it up to date for Linux)
[11:34]  Billy.Bradshaw Yes Andrew, just looked at the mantis again and someone said the same
[11:34]  Gavin.Hird 32-bit windows
[11:35]  Billy.Bradshaw Bob had worked out it would be something to do with int32
[11:35]  Gavin.Hird Nicky is doing all he can to make both the 32 and 64 bit Linux versions run smoothly
[11:35]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I'll be downloading the version for 64-bit Linux
[11:36]  Gavin.Hird cool
[11:36]  Lucy Afarensis: Will there be a log of this meeting posted ?
[11:36]  Andrew Hellershanks: Lucy, Um... there will be if I find out where the logs were being posted. Someone else had been posting the logs.
[11:36]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim Dev        e8b4602: 2016-03-16 20:04:52 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:36]  Gavin.Hird If you want to be in the bleeding edge, the latest 4.0.2 builds are here
[11:36]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, ok.
[11:37]  Billy.Bradshaw ++Gavin
[11:37]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I used to run Alpha versions of Sing until they seriously broke the viewer.
[11:37]  Lucy Afarensis: I noticed that she is not here today
[11:37]  Andrew Hellershanks: Sheera wasn't here last week either.
[11:37]  Gavin.Hird I also had to give up on the alpha versions of Sing
[11:37]  Andrew Hellershanks: If you need the log of last weeks meeting I do have a copy.
[11:38]  Andrew Hellershanks: Billy, I can look at that mantis after the meeting. If it is a variable size issue that could be easily fixed.
[11:38]  Lucy Afarensis: maybe you could post it to the osgrid forum. It format everything nicely
[11:38]  Billy.Bradshaw Thanks Andrew, Bob would really appreciate that
[11:38]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'll make some quick notes
[11:39]  Billy.Bradshaw I cannot see why there should be a 32 bit limit, probably historic
[11:39]  Gavin.Hird as long as it does not break running on 32-bit mono
[11:40]  Andrew Hellershanks: Billy, most likely
[11:40]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, there is that.
[11:40]  Gavin.Hird The OS X version of mono is still only 32-bit stable
[11:40]  Andrew Hellershanks: I've noted the mantis number and will ask about it on IRC.
[11:40]  Billy.Bradshaw Good point Gavin , I could check that I have a 32bit opensim setup
[11:40]  Gavin.Hird and the OS X dylibs are only compiled for 32-bit mono
[11:41]  Kayaker Magic: I'm trying to start a second instance of OpenSim on my server. I set the listener an unused port (9002). Do I also have to set the Region.ini internal port to an unused one, or to the same number as the listener?
[11:41]  Andrew Hellershanks: From what I'm seeing there is not that the code may be limited but that the report is clamping the number
[11:41]  Kayaker Magic: (actully, I tried that and it is not working)
[11:41]  Lucy Afarensis: different port K
[11:42]  Kayaker Magic: different from what?
[11:42]  Lucy Afarensis: it should be on its own port
[11:42]  Billy.Bradshaw I just compiled with the in32 section removed and it seems to respond ok
[11:42]  Gavin.Hird I have two instances runnig the the network port in OpenSim.ini must be different
[11:42]  Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, each region ini file should specify a different port number
[11:42]  George Equus: and open in the router
[11:42]  Gavin.Hird then each region must be on different ports
[11:42]  Kayaker Magic: different from the internal port in the other instance?
[11:43]  George Equus: yes
[11:43]  Gavin.Hird yes
[11:43]  Kayaker Magic: There are TCP port numbers in the OpenSim.ini, yes they must be different.
[11:43]  Andrew Hellershanks: Different from the port numbers specified in OS.ini
[11:43]  Gavin.Hird I run one on 9000 and the other on 8003
[11:43]  Kayaker Magic: There are internal port numbers (UTP) in the Region.ini, sometimes they are the same as the TCP port number in OS.ini
[11:43]  Gavin.Hird but ONE region must run on 9000?
[11:43]  Kayaker Magic: So please be specific which difference
[11:44]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, port 9000 is the default used in a Standalone set up for communicating with OpenSim. The port numbers in the region ini files should be on different port numbers.
[11:45]  Kayaker Magic: for example, my first instance has listener port 9000 and UDP port 9000 for the first region.
[11:45]  Gavin.Hird so there is no need for one region running on port 9000 in grid mode?
[11:45]  Kayaker Magic: they are the same but work OK.
[11:45]  Andrew Hellershanks: In my standalone I use port 9000 in OpenSim.ini and my regions are 9001, and 9002.
[11:45]  George Equus: I tried running 4 regions on separate instances,  range I have open on router is 9000-9008 as I usually have 9 regions up. those 4 regions  were al run on individual ports as defined in Region,ini  9000, 9001, 9002 and 9003
[11:45]  Kayaker Magic: I tried a second instance with listener port 9002 and region UDP port 9002, it did not work.
[11:45]  Billy.Bradshaw Gavin I use other ports as 9000 conflicts with other stuff on my systems
[11:46]  Billy.Bradshaw I use ports in the 8000 range for most instances
[11:46]  Gavin.Hird ok, it works with one of the regions on 9000, but i agree it would be better placing them on other ports
[11:47]  Gavin.Hird the documentation is a bit confusing
[11:47]  Andrew Hellershanks: I prefer to avoid using the same port number mentioned in Network for OS.ini for a regions port number. I can use the port numbers in use to know what process is attached to a port.
[11:47]  Kayaker Magic: I configured my router to use 9 ports from 9000++, it works well for up to 9 regions in one instance, I am trying to do separate instances and it is not working
[11:47]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, you can always submit changes.
[11:48]  Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, you are running in Standalone mode or grid mode?
[11:48]  Gavin.Hird Changes for Andrew?
[11:48]  Kayaker Magic: grid mode on OSgrid. Out of the box OSgrid setup.
[11:48]  Billy.Bradshaw I have Cisco quals and still find the opensim port allocation documentation awkward
[11:49]  Andrew Hellershanks: oh, ok. Ill have to look at the connection setup. I haven't connected a region to osgrid.
[11:49]  George Equus: If I recall, the port number has to be matched in opensim.ini too...?  not sure
[11:50]  Billy.Bradshaw remember the http port also in OpenSim.ini
[11:50]  George Equus: Right
[11:50]  Billy.Bradshaw hate this computer lol
[11:50]  Kayaker Magic: Yes, I change the OS.INI port to 9002, I change the UDP port in Regions.ini (is that necc?) to 9002, it does not work.
[11:51]  Kayaker Magic: What else must be changed? Should I NOT change the UDP port?
[11:51]  Lucy Afarensis: I think that .9 handles the listener port differently
[11:51]  Kayaker Magic: By not work, I mean OpenSim comes up on the console, but it never responds to avatars trying to TP in.
[11:52]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'll have to pull up the osgrid settings to see what it says.
[11:52]  Gavin.Hird On both and I have tow instances running on the same machine
[11:52]  Billy.Bradshaw are we talking standalone or grid format?
[11:52]  Gavin.Hird the ports in Regions.ini for each instance must be different
[11:52]  George Equus: I changed the port in Opensim ini under [Network] as well as in Regions.ini
[11:52]  Kayaker Magic: OSgrid
[11:52]  George Equus: worked fine
[11:53]  Billy.Bradshaw oh, over to Andrew :)
[11:53]  Gavin.Hird the http address in OpenSim.ini must be different between the instances
[11:53]  George Equus: also on the plain vanilla from Dan btw
[11:53]  Basil Sosides: where is Mr. Izumi ?
[11:53]  George Equus: Retired...
[11:53]  Gavin.Hird then Robust is running on a different machine
[11:54]  Gavin.Hird but it does not really work unless DNS can look up all the addresse correct
[11:54]  Andrew Hellershanks: Basil, nebadon is taking a break from a number of OpenSimulator related activities so I have stepped in to look after the meetings.
[11:54]  Gavin.Hird with only IP addresses I never could get it working
[11:54]  Andrew Hellershanks: Basil, He hasn't said if/when he will be back.
[11:54]  Andrew Hellershanks: I am pulling up the osgrid site
[11:56]  Billy.Bradshaw The BaseURL setting can be awkward if setting up a grid with Robust and Sims on the same subnet, but that is probably best for a more indepth meeting
[11:57]  Gavin.Hird Better documentation for that would help many :-)
[11:57]  Billy.Bradshaw true
[11:57]  George Equus: My server laptop is so old it can't really cope anymore and running 9 separate instances is not possible, hard drive is much to small  :)   so the 4 region was a test only, for the future when I get new hardware.
[11:58]  Andrew Hellershanks: I don't think the person who wrote the notes expected someone to run more than one region connected to osgrid.
[11:58]  Kayaker Magic: I would like to move away from multiple regions in one instance.
[11:58]  Gavin.Hird sounds about right Andrew
[11:58]  Kayaker Magic: But So far I can't get a second instance to respond.
[11:58]  Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, If you are running more than one instance you would give each one a different port number in OpenSim.ini
[11:58]  Kayaker Magic: YES! First thing I did.
[11:59]  Andrew Hellershanks: In the Regions.ini file you also need to provided different port numbers.
[11:59]  Gavin.Hird do you use IP addresses or full DNS names?
[11:59]  Kayaker Magic: different from the other instances?
[11:59]  Kayaker Magic: DNS from
[11:59]  Andrew Hellershanks: For one small grid I set up for someone I use port numbers starting at 9000 in OpenSim.ini and numbers starting at 9100 for the Regions.ini files.
[12:00]  Kayaker Magic: The out-of the box setup from OSgrid uses TCP port 9000 in OS.ini and UTP port 9000 in Regions.ini.
[12:00]  Kayaker Magic: Apparently it is OK for the TCP and UDP ports to have the same number? It does work!
[12:01]  Gavin.Hird yes, that works
[12:01]  Gavin.Hird for one region
[12:01]  George Equus: What I did was creating a series of folders, named after each region. then copied bin and so on to each one and changed port numbers on region.ini and OpenSim.ini for each one. deleted the db file on all (starting ober in console with naming and user name)
[12:01]  Kayaker Magic: How about UDP ports in different instances? Should they be different in different instances?
[12:01]  Gavin.Hird I have one instance running on 9000 TCP for http and regions running from 9000-9021 UDP
[12:02]  Gavin.Hird the next instance is running on TCP 8003 and 9022-9038 UDP
[12:02]  Andrew Hellershanks: I don't think of whether a connection is UDP, TCP, or both. If it for something different I use different number
[12:02]  Sheera.Khan @Kayaker, yes, the portnumbers have do be unique
[12:02]  Kayaker Magic: instance 1: TCP 9000 UDP 9000, Instance 2: TCP 9002 UDP 9002, this didn't respond to avatars TPing in.
[12:02]  Andrew Hellershanks: So instances get one set of numbers, regions get another set.
[12:03]  Billy.Bradshaw So many permutations it is difficult to be specific
[12:03]  Andrew Hellershanks: Lucy, Sheera is here so I will pass on the meeting notes so they will be posted.
[12:03]  Gavin.Hird what is your internal IP address set to in Region.ini?
[12:03]  Gavin.Hird it must be
[12:03]  George Equus: yep
[12:03]  George Equus: default
[12:04]  Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, if you can get on the IRC channel after the meeting the discussion can continue and we can get you set up.
[12:04]  Andrew Hellershanks: yes, internal address of in the regions.ini
[12:04]  Kayaker Magic: The port number in the OS.ini is a TCP port, the port numbers in Region.ini are UDP port numbers. When I ask a question people say "change the port number" and I do not know which they are talking about. FRUSTRATING! So to be specific I started saying "TCP port" for the OS.ini number and "UDP port" for the Region.ini port numbers.
[12:04]  Andrew Hellershanks: You do need to set the ExternalHostName
[12:05]  Andrew Hellershanks: in Regions in file
[12:05]  Gavin.Hird yes
[12:06]  Gavin.Hird and if you set that to a FDQN, DNS must be able to resolve it to your internal IP address inside your router
[12:06]  Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, If I say change a port number I would say whether you would be changing the number in os ini or regions ini. If you start talking about tcp ports and udp ports I'd have to ask you what you are talking about as I don't know what uses which protocol.
[12:07]  Kayaker Magic: What is the IRC address? I haven't been there in a while
[12:07]  George Equus: I don't do any fancy work whatsoever, use what Dan post. No mods of any kind, It worked with those port changes right away for me.  No poking in the router, it is set once accommodating for 9 regions total. (9000-9008)
[12:08]  Billy.Bradshaw Gavin, an external DNS cannot resolve an address on an internal network, only the loopback point to the outside world
[12:08]  Kayaker Magic: Yeah, I did the same thing with my router
[12:08]  Gavin.Hird you can make an alias record inside
[12:08]  Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, #opensim-dev on
[12:09]  Kayaker Magic: thanks
[12:09]  Gavin.Hird but for that to work the loopback must work on the router, and not all have that working
[12:09]  Andrew Hellershanks: yw
[12:09]  Billy.Bradshaw yes, but that too would not be visible to an external DNS
[12:09]  Gavin.Hird no it would't
[12:10]  Andrew Hellershanks: Sheera, I have the log of last weeks meeting and I will pass your this weeks after the meeting has ended. Both will need posting. If you need one prior to last week I can give you that too
[12:10]  George Equus: If router work as is on running several regions and a range set in the router, it will work running separate instances as well....   with no alterations at all in router
[12:10]  Gavin.Hird you have to experiment a bit with it so both the internal and external side can resolve all needed addresses
[12:14]  Andrew Hellershanks: George, OpenSim is complicated to set up the first time you do it. It gets a little easier after that.
[12:14]  George Equus: but router was the worst actually
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Router issues can be a whole other complication. Particularly if you are dealing with NAT
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: George, when it comes to MySQL you also need to check the user permissions to access the database you set up
[12:19] George Equus: I got full access to ALL internal configuration of my router, make me perspire profusely when I log on and start poking around it all...
[12:19] George Equus: Think problem I had on MySQL was  root password...
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: The common thing is needing to set up port forwarding if people are coming in from the Internet and you are running instances in a local network.
[12:20] George Equus: and name also. instructions I got is old and MySQL has changed a bit on install from version described
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: George, ok.
[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: MySQL is another thing that can be a bit tricky to set up first time out
Personal tools
About This Wiki