Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-24

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[10:52] Web.Rain j'ai une petite presentation a propos d'un systeme relatif à l'économie dans le metaverse j'espere que le boss ne va pas m'ejecter :)
[10:57] Web.Rain do you have packets loss in this version? sometimes my avatar still blocked in my local sandbox :( and the console display red lines
[10:57] Richardus.Raymaker viewer not show packetloss. but my clothing is misisng textures
[10:57] Wolf.Freeman wow, no chat echo in here
[10:57] Shez Oyen: I'm having a lot of lag
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: no chat lag here
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: however that can happen as content is loading
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: it will probably subside
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: there is something like 4-5000 textures here
[10:58] Richardus.Raymaker is my pants textured for you ?
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: its a good test region :)
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: yep
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: Jeans
[10:58] Wolf.Freeman what about chat echo in 0.9.0
[10:58] Shez Oyen: Rich yes
[10:58] Wolf.Freeman ?
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: chat echo?
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: thats new to me
[10:58] Wolf.Freeman double in chat
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: first I am hearing of this, I am not sure
[10:59] Wolf.Freeman double Text or 3 times of Text
[10:59] Richardus.Raymaker strange, it's white for me.
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: what viewer?
[10:59] Wolf.Freeman singu
[10:59] Richardus.Raymaker singularity
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: im in Replex
[10:59] Richardus.Raymaker did rebake, now it's fine
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: i have not experienced the double chat
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: please File a mantis bug report
[10:59] Shez Oyen: Sing here.. chat is normal but object very slow rezzing
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi:
[10:59] Richardus.Raymaker Not see double chat
[10:59] Wolf.Freeman its done in mantis
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: k good
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: bound to be some oddities poping up
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: its a big code change
[11:00] Web.Rain hi jak :) thank you for your work on the oars :)
[11:00] Jak Daniels: Hi Web... yw :)
[11:00] Wolf.Freeman sitpositions shifted in Z-direction
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: that is being worked on still I think
[11:01] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim Dev        dd9b06e: 2015-10-29 22:14:11 +0000 (Unix/Mono)
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: Ubit is on his way I think
[11:01] Richardus.Raymaker for the avination code you can only use the ubitode ?
[11:01] Tom.Frost yeah we discussed sit positions last week iirc
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: maybe he can verify what is going on there
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: oh haha
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: i didnt see you walking up
[11:02] Wolf.Freeman i run the since 4 hours
[11:02] Ubit Umarov: ( its ubOde not ubitOde :p )
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:02] Wolf.Freeman simcross by vihicles works good
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: nice
[11:03] Jak Daniels: I think the name's stuck ubit ;)
[11:03] Ubit Umarov: ( and you can use ubOde, Ode, bullet etc =
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker I did not looked at 0.8.2 waiting for soemthing else first
[11:03] Wolf.Freeman what the hell is ubODE ??????????
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker Jak, it's still a problem if you type it wrong in the config
[11:03] Wolf.Freeman should i use it ?
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: its an updated ODE module from Avination by Ubit
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: :)
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: it allows for vars and stuff and border crossing
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: better optimizations
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker that is what i mean, so bullet is not working then if...
[11:04] Shy Robbiani: btw... apropos naming, can ubODE bee seen as ODE2?
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: no border crossing for bullet yet
[11:04] Wolf.Freeman do ubODE work on VAR ???
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: and probably even further off will be bullet to ODE crossing
[11:04] Jak Daniels: no the dynamics are different
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ubeODE is closer to bulletsim and SL scripting wise
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: so old ODE stuff doesnt just work
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: it will ne adjustment
[11:05] Web.Rain hi Ubit :) thank you for your good job ! thank's to diva too ^^ ~25% less in RAM usage and + the same in performances WaW bravo
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker Good question wolf. vbery imprtant that var works
[11:05] Ubit Umarov: bullet should have borger crossing also
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: oh does it?
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i missed that
[11:05] Alicia.Raven hi everyone
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i miss everything anymore
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: its all happening so fast
[11:05] Jak Daniels: U added the state transfer to that too ubit?
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hello Alicia
[11:05] Ubit Umarov: ( all engines should work on vars now )
[11:06] Wolf.Freeman #- OK ! -#
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: can you cross from Bullet to UbODE?
[11:06] Shez Oyen: Hi Alicia :)
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker Ubit, where's the disclaimer :)
[11:06] Ubit Umarov: depends how suicidal u feel neb :)
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i need to set up another physics region for UbODE
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker lol ubit
[11:07] Jak Daniels: heh... set the ball dropper going again
[11:07] Wolf.Freeman witch brings the best performance ?....Bullet oder ubODE ???
[11:07] Ubit Umarov: but we should be able to cross.. think never tested
[11:08] Wolf.Freeman but the double and trible and quad CHAT-Output is bad
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: wolf, you tell us :)
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: can you run ODE in its own Thread?
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: like Bulletsim?
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: thats really important for me
[11:08] Tom.Frost Wolf: are you experiencing that now?
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: to remove it from the heartbeat thread
[11:09] Shez Oyen: Wolf are you using any kind of translator? sometimes they cause repeats
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker neb, i run bullet anyway on own threat
[11:09] Wolf.Freeman yes i run now
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: no only bullet as a own thread option
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: yes me to im asking if ODE can
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: ok
[11:09] Alicia.Raven last time i saw double chat it was multiple regions on one sim, each processing the message
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: is it possible you think?
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: that makes a huge difference in performance of a simulator
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: with heavy physics
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: in my past testing with ODE i could get to about 600-1000 physical spheres
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: yes alicia i had a bug on several scenes running on same instance
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: it would start getting really terrible
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: with bulletsim i went pask 100k once
[11:10] Wolf.Freeman i have 4 Regions on one Simulator
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: and it didnt crash
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: i could still walk around actually
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: both engines had good cases , not so good.. and disaster :)
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: haha
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: ..have..
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya I need to give it a try, i just havent had the time yet
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: well thats a reason to have 2 options
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: yea
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: im all for it, i hope we get even more options
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: i really want to see micasim work again
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: sucks that no one is maintaining it
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker micasim ?
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: ( ubOde will not run old ode vehicles very well, like bullet )
[11:13] Wolf.Freeman are there important changes in opensim.ini for the ???
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: its a N Body Newtonian Physics Module for opensim
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: really neat.
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: but it hasnt worked in a long while
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: some changes we did a long while back broke compatibaility
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: no one ever fixed it
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker it looks more like some battle ants simulator :O
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: haha
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: it was fun to play with
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: you could do black holes and stuff
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: you set density in the description of the object if i recall
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker Noo, we already have enough holes :O
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: haha
[11:18] Wolf.Freeman i think i cant use the 0.9.0 cause of this fuck Chat-Echo
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: have you tried a different viewer?
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: think echo is gone now
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: maybe need a newer version?
[11:18] Wolf.Freeman i use Singlarity, latest version
[11:19] Wolf.Freeman and Fireszorm
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: is this something you fixed Ubit?
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: yeap
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: ok so its probably just not in the osgrid release
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: yet
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: this stuff is happening fast
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: on several regions per instance.. there was a nasty eco
[11:19] Shy Robbiani: things go fast :)
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: we would have to make like 4 updates a day to keep up right now
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, do you think it would take a lot of work to get that micasimulator module working again?
[11:20] Wolf.Freeman may be the Chat - Mistake is on win/.net only ????
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: also a teleport issue :)
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: I dont know Ubit looked at micasim breifly
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: i have to say I dont understand it at all
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: it is a physics engine after all
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: ah, right.
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: just browsed its code neb
[11:21] Shez Oyen: There's Robert :)
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: The first step is see if it still compiles.
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: im sure it wont compile in our current code
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: without adjustments
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: its a very old add on
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: like 2 refactors ago
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: or more
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, the region module loading stuff did change
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: needs to be converted to region module, get api updated etc
[11:21] Robert Adams: now what has the physics engine done?
[11:21] Shez Oyen: lol
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: talking about micasim
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: and how to revive it :)
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Does it replace the existing engine or work with one?
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: i could have sworn it either was ODE or Stacked on ODE
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: but Ubit made it sound like its a standalone physics engine
[11:22] Robert Adams: don't know what that is
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I may have a go at trying to get it to compile.
[11:22] Jak Daniels: it looks like a region physics module
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: i looked standalone plugin.. but not sure
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Problem is that both my branches of OpenSIm are currently broken. I need to get them fixed before I can do any more development.
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: incase you missed :)
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: its pretty old Misterblue
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: what 2 branchs ?
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: 0.8.2 and master. I have uncommitted changes and now have merge conflicts after I tried to update my copies of the code.
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: ohh ok
[11:24] Richardus.Raymaker is 0.8.2 already released or still on rc2 ?
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: There are times I really hate git.
[11:24] Robert Adams: Adding new physics engines should be as easy as adding a new module to the region
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm trying to avoid losing my code changes.
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: yea it was functional at one time Robert
[11:25] Robert Adams: people have done traffic simulators (many cars on many streets) and I've seen several planetary simulators
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: but there has been 2 or 3 region module refactors since then
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: yea Mic did a nice one with SUMO
[11:25] Robert Adams: Mic had an n-body simulator a while back
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: and we have our own custom module for Encitra
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: for traffic
[11:28] Wolf.Freeman teebreake ?
[11:28] Wolf.Freeman no one is typing
[11:29] Shy Robbiani: I had a lot of issues and crashes with the recently released Mono 4 versions on Debian 8, but it's definitely Mono and probably on 64-bit Debian only
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: there was also a issue with mono 3.12
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: i bypassed it
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: sorrry i got a call from Sweden
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: im back
[11:30] Jak Daniels: same on centos 6 too, I'm rolling back from 4.2.1
[11:30] Shy Robbiani: I switched back to the standard  3.2.8 and all is fine
[11:30] Wolf.Freeman Sweden is near germany
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: ( well i hope.. dan will test it later )
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: dan said same thing to me in IM this morning
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: about 3.12 crashing with 0.9
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: yeap
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: that is why this region is on 0.8.3
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: it wouldnt start up or something
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: show stats
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: we havent talked
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: something we can fix?
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: not a mono bug or somethihng?
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: hope i already did
[11:31] Shy Robbiani: 3.12 and some of the firt 4.0
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: ah fantastic
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: thanks man
[11:31] Shy Robbiani: a mono bug, I'm quite sure...
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: yeap a documented mono bug
[11:31] Shy Robbiani: I closed my open issues
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: Sisyphus runs 4.3
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: from mono git
[11:32] Shy Robbiani: 64 bit?
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: I think OSCC is on 4.0.4
[11:32] Shy Robbiani: I never experienced reproducable problems on 32-bit debian installs
[11:33] Shy Robbiani: never is not correct, there were bas builds in-between
[11:33] Shy Robbiani: *bad
[11:35] Wolf.Freeman yes
[11:36] Wolf.Freeman but i dont know how to fix that chat bug
[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker try different opensim version ?
[11:36] Robert Adams: everything is running so well that no one has any issues!
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: what chat bug the echo?
[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker mabye change network bandcwidth in the viewer
[11:36] Wolf.Freeman yes, an echo
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: update the region :)
[11:37] Wolf.Freeman since i changed from 0.8.3 to 0.9.0
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: i did code on that today wolf
[11:37] Wolf.Freeman ok# thx
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: ( possible there is no chat now.. details :p )
[11:38] Shy Robbiani: lol
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: sorry i keep getting callls lol someone else
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: anyway ya we will try to get a new oSG release out soon
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: with the fix
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: when danbanner has a moment to do so I am sure he will
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: he will test here first
[11:39] Wolf.Freeman and the Simulator makes Maptile-Updates every 20min...but i did not tell him to do this lol#
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: you know i noticed that too
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: perhaps something slipped into one of the ini files
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: that was a bug i fxied long ago
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: in Grid.ini i think
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: there was a hard code for maptile gen timer
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: that should not have been there, it forced timer to always run which is bad
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: memory leak
[11:40] Wolf.Freeman ah, yes
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: errr hmmm coff cofff
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: haha i'll take a look shortly
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: ( think i forced a value when i was fixing it on initial merge.. )
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker is robust not supporting show stats. see mailing list question
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: ok that should get undone
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i noticed it at sisyphus
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i was like what the heck why is it regnerating map but it slipped my mind
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: so much going on
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker anybody know if "show stats: work on robust 0.8.2 ?
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: i didnt think robust had stats
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: like that
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: there are some individual things you can invoke probably
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think there is a concise panel for robust
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: OSCC is coming up quick
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: hope you guys wil all Attend
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: Alicia and Ubit will you be on the Developer Panel ?
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker what's on the schedule ? :O
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: im a noob here :)
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: well it would be good for you to talk a little about the merge
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: Melanie and Diva and I will be tehre
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker Ubit. nah. you going to lose that
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: Andrew said he would come
[11:46] Alicia.Raven whats the date neb?
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: Id like to get a few more core devs
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: Dec 5th
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: just an hour or so
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: its a panel so you dont need any prepared speech or anything
[11:46] Alicia.Raven yep i will be there
[11:46] Alicia.Raven cool
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: awesome can you send me best email to contact you
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: and I will have someone get the ball rolling
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... timing could be interesting. First Saturday of the month I have a grid staff meeting.
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: ah robert left I guess
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: or crashed
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: or guessed you where going to talk about this ;)
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: um... correction, grid residents meeting.
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: ( kidding )
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: haha
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: Ubit what is best email for you?
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: im me if you want
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ok i passed on details to joyce
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: she will contact you guys about the panel
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: everyone else please register for OSCC if you are going
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: for now
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: and hope you all enjoy Thanks Giving if you are in the US or other places that celebrate it
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: be safe :)
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: u2 :)
[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker when is it neb ? thanksgiving. lazy to use google
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: Thursday
[11:54] Web.Rain at the beginning of this year I discovered a system that can be used to create an <br>
economic background to the metaverse avoiding tragedies such as that of AviNation and <br>
completely outside the scope of companies and monopolies like virowx ...<br>
- Can be used with LSL<br>
- You can create one or more currencies<br>
- An embedded marketplace that does not tax you 20% of the sales price<br>
- An asset exchange that can be used to raise capitals for Opensim projects<br>
but most important is that it frees the grids owners from the legal responsibility and liability <br>
as currency issuer<br>
can i give you the link to read about?
[11:54] Shy Robbiani: thank you, you too
[11:54] Alicia.Raven local account needed or hg ok neb?
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: HG is fine for the panel members
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: if you had to do scripts or soemthing then need local
[11:57] Alicia.Raven ok cool
[11:57] Web.Rain yes? no?
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: Web we cant really support currency platforms
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: the risk is to high
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: i would suggest to all core devs that we abstain in public from really supporting them
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: there are a ton of legal ramifications to these kind of systems
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: that cant be taken lightly
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: a purely credit system would be fine
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: but tieing into real world money I would say officially the core project cant support them
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: other than hooks
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: to allow for things to operate correctly
[11:58] Web.Rain is one! but i share your opinion on this
[11:59] Richardus.Raymaker if you want to burn your fingers. that's a good corner. and e-mails erve ris another one
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: I am not against people devleoping these systems externally to the project though
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks wonders why LioneLL is wearing a box.
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: but the core project will never really give its stamp of approval or promote it
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: if you do pursue it please consult a lawyer
[12:00] Web.Rain thank's all :) was instructive for me
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: A marketplace using the inworld currency system could be interesting.
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ok i have to run I have some testing in Encitra grid i need to attend to
[12:01] Web.Rain it's an all-in-one tool box
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker i mean in core money is good for some burning fingers. yes
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