Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-06

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Video of Meeting

Internet Acrhive: OpenSimulator Developer Meeting October 6, 2015

Chat Log

[11:04] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe now that the r/xxxxxx numbers have been removed, is there some way to easily look up a commit number to find out what it refers to?
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I didn't have to remind nebadon about the meeting this week. :)
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Wow. Some people actually use the stairs to get up here?
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: Justin uses to do the stairs a lot
[11:08] Sheera Khan: just probing the physics
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:08] vegaslon plutonian uses the stairs
[11:08] Shy Robbiani: I didn't find a tp
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I did use the stairs myself my first few times.
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: You just fly up and come in via the balcony. No TP.
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker Oh the stairs.... it's like a vic20. it's nice but slow
[11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: I don't even fly iin. I just sit immediately after TP.
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: yea im usually late so no time for the stairs
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:09] Sheera Khan: or use the cam and sit ...
[11:09] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim Dev        0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: There have been more talks for OSCC, its definitely happening in December
[11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: Yay!
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: so anyone looking to help out keep an eye out for announcements
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: cool
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: nothing official has gone out yet, lots of preplanning going on
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: What set of stress testing do you want to do this time to get ready?
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: will be different format this year
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: single day event
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure we are going to have a lot of time for stress tests
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: we might get in 2-3 of them
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: but i suspect we wont need much tuning this year
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: it should run quite well, as good as last year
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: without much change
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: it will be a smaller less complicated venue
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, a lot of tuning went from the last couple rounds of stress testingtesting
[11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: The avination merge is the only concern I can think of. If OSCC grid stays with a version that predates that, it should be just as stable as last year.
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: s/went/went in/
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: time is short this year, but we didnt want to skip it
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: so we are cutting it down, but it will still be a full day and lots too do
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: plus plenty of time to explore things for a few weeks after
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: I will let everyone know once its official and we are asking for helpers
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker suprissed you do OSCC this year
[11:13] Marcus Llewellyn would like to be on the stream team again. :) IIf it will be streamed.
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: yes it will be streamed
[11:13] Shy Robbiani: great
[11:14] Sheera Khan: could we set up a streaming service less filled with commercials?
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it depends on how much funds we can raise
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: generally you have to pay for commercial free and its not cheap
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: if you have 100s of potential watchers too
[11:15] Shy Robbiani: will the streams be recorded for later review?
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: we will archive everything
[11:15] OtakuMegane Desu: What is the stream hosted on usually?
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: is the site
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: its still pointing to last years stuff
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: but you can see what last year was about :)
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker and something with youtube ? mabye my memory is bguu but did the not have something new ?
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: we will be looking for similar types of vollunteers as past years though
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: some builders, greeters, organizers etc..
[11:18] Richardus.Raymaker hmm, youtube seems a bad idea
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: we would have to experiment more with youtube
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: whatever works best though
[11:18] Chris.Weymann jup
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: no doubt youtube can handle large loads of people
[11:18] Chris.Weymann and youtube livestreaming is not aviable in germany -.-
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: that is good to know
[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: Youtube streaming is nice when it works. Frustrating when it dowsn't. It's in beta right now, and for a reason.
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker Beta or Alpha ?
[11:19] Tom.Frost i see everyone using twitch now for streaming, but that probably has ads?
[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: I'm livestreaming right now. it's dependability is highly variable.
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker twitch that's the name yes
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: you can pay not to have ads
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: it is very dependant on how much funds are raised
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: in such a short time i suspect we may be dealing with ads
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: you never know though
[11:20] Marcus Llewellyn: UStream was problematic last year. :/
[11:20] Shez Oyen: Can you choose the ads?
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think so
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: you either pay to have control or use free service with no control
[11:21] Sheera Khan: if the videos are on the website for later viewing that should be ok ...
[11:21] Sheera Khan: I'd take a look at them later then ^^
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: generally all the services just push your archive to youtube
[11:21] Richardus.Raymaker Well, depends where the ads are. possible not see them anyway but free betetr then nothing
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: or let you download a mp4 or something
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: rarely to the streaming services do the archivng as well
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: usually a pay for service as well
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya the archives would not have the commercials
[11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: Ideally, whomever does the stream will also do a local recording. That's just best, as every online service I've tried can be quirky about archiving in one way or another.
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: just the live event
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: we are shooting for first week of december
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: will have more official details soon though
[11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: The last week would be insane. ;)
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: haha ya
[11:24] Sheera Khan: I could provide some bandwidth for the videos if needed
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: Avacon has the FCVW in February so we couldnt really push it after
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: unless we wait until like spring
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker I nstill think there's more news next year
[11:25] Marcus Llewellyn: I think it's kind of now or never for a 2015 OSCC
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: with the trimmed down event, and not having to build venues
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker yuo. only 3 months left :LO
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: we just reuse last years venue as much as possible
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: we should be fine
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Can't have it much later than December as it will be 2016 before long.
[11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: Last year's were ver, very nice.
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya its a nice build
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: i just upgraded linux on that server
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: should run well
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: as good as the osgrid plazas
[11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: Which mon on it?
[11:26] Richardus.Raymaker the trick is to use the right mono
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: I know event plaza has been uses extensively
[11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: mono rather
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: and does well
[11:27] vegaslon plutonian: what is everyones thoughts about restricting OsNpcCreate to not be able to create npc from a uuid of user in region by default and have to change a ini setting to make it possible again?
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: I don't see a problem with that myself
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker default i think iot's safer to not let everybody create NPC
[11:27] Marcus Llewellyn: That's already the case, vegaslon. You hace to enable the OSSL that lets you copy anther's appearance.
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: would need to pose that question to the -dev email list
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: for a up / down vote
[11:28] vegaslon plutonian: this is another layer to that
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: what is the benefit?
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: There are seperate commands for copying an agent's or owner's appearance. Just disable the former.
[11:28] vegaslon plutonian: it is how avination is doing it and how it is set to be in the avinationmerge branch
[11:28] Tom.Frost marcus: out of curiosity, what mono would be est'?
[11:28] Tom.Frost best
[11:29] Marcus Llewellyn: I'm the wrong person to ask, Tom. :) I've been sticking with 3.2.* on my linux boxen. I haven't kept up with the newer stuff.
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: I use Mono 4 myself
[11:30] Aine.Caoimhe what sort of plans are being made for the eventual general/public release of the Avination code merge as far as having various grids/regions upgrade to it?
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: mono 3.12+ is good
[11:30] vegaslon plutonian: also have it restricted to any npc that has a name can not be sensored as a avatar without changing an ini setting and any named npc will have to join a npc group to have an aditional tag
[11:30] Marcus Llewellyn: Mono 4 does have that MS OSS stuff rolled in.
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is testing some of it already
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: any grid wanting to test it can already do so now
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: avinationmerge is the branch in git
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: its already public
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe but then it will be unable to TP to any other region that isn't running it, correct?
[11:31] OtakuMegane Desu: Mono 4 works but I seem to hear little bugs and such coming up regularly enough still. 3.12+ is pretty solid and tested.
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: not at the moment
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: I have it running on sisyphus here
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: i just teleported here from there
[11:31] snik.snoodle hi hun
[11:31] Dani.Rose hi you!
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: work is still ongoing and things could change
[11:31] Dani.Rose hehehe
[11:31] Sheera Khan: and your avatar is still with you *giggles*
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe so there won't be a block to being able to tp from one to the other after all?
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: but if you are interested in the transiton the best thing to do is run the code and follow updates
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: we can tp to and from avnmerge code
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: I think there may Aine, right now there is not
[11:32] Aine.Caoimhe I can't update to something that is going to make it impossible for people to get to me or me to get to them
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: I can not say for sure at this point which way things will go
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: you may not have much of a choice
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: if others update and you dont
[11:32] Aine.Caoimhe which is why I was asking about deployment plans
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I cant speak for any grid
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I cant even speak for OSgrid
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: we only control a small portion of the regions
[11:33] Tom.Frost so there might be a danger of a fork then? people refusing to upgrade, spliiting the metaverse in two
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: how other grids deploy is up to them
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe I suspect so
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: hmm ?
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: we wont hold back code development for any particular grid though
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: why a fork ?
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: the metaverse is already in like 86 peices
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: soo ya
[11:34] Tom.Frost :)
[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker People that fork or not upgrade. make it only harder for themself. by using old not compatible stuff
[11:34] Aine.Caoimhe but currently most of the metaverse is able to move about relatively well between those islands
[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker with more bugs
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: there where several changes already in past that made regions incompatible...
[11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: There have been a couple break points in the past that made things a bit rough but it really wasn't that huge a problem in the end. Most everyone upgraded and life went on.
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: yea unfortunately its going to happen, and being that no one has control over the entire metaverse
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: that may happen again, but thats no reason for forks
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: there is absolutely nothing we can do to insure there wont be some bumps
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: its just technically not possible
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: these things could happen accidetilly even at this point
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: a last partial one was about large regions tp limitations...
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: glossing over bugs for years does not help development
[11:36] Marcus Llewellyn: +1
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone running HG enabled grids/regions and who really wants to have people be able to HG TP in/out should be paying attention to what is happening on in OS.
[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker It's strange. if SL break code or things with changes the nosie is not so high. If OS change code to make it more SL. The earh explode
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: we are however doing a lot of testing
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: a future one maybe because of new wearable types
[11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: +1 Andrew
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: to try to minimize the pain, the sooner you get involved in testing the less shockuing things will be come time for the hard decisions
[11:37] OtakuMegane Desu: Other than just not wanting to try out brand new changes, what reasons would there be for not simply upgrading in this case?
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: current code made the number of wearable types a protocol restriction
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker ubit wh\at large TP limitation ?
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: fear of the unknown is silly
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe isolation
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe if 90% of the metaverse can't get to you and visa versa....
[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe or at present, 99%
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: Aine we will do whatever we can to help you transition
[11:38] Marcus Llewellyn: And people who're apparantly just wholly allergic to performing upgrades chose the wrong software project.
[11:38] OtakuMegane Desu: XD
[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe if there's a blocker of that nation
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Marcus, indeed
[11:38] Tom.Frost iḿ just imagining how this will pan out.. i usually follow updates, but only after a while to see if there's serious bugs that show up
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: old  version regions may crash if you tp thre with new wearebles types
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: lets deal with problems as they arise, not try to imagine what may happen and then choose to not act because of something we assume may happen
[11:38] Shez Oyen: ::cough:: Marcus
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: 0.8.2  will just silently fail the tp
[11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: TP Protocol bumps will smack some people in the face. But like OtakuMegane said, they'll upgrade, and life will go on.
[11:39] OtakuMegane Desu: At least it's not so bad as earlier days when you logged in and wondered what/when something would break that day. :P
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: no one will be a lone in their quest though
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: :)
[11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: The sit reposition was a similar event. People redid builds, life went on.
[11:39] Shez Oyen: Neb is the one available for download on the OSG website now the one we are testing?
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: no if you want to test right now you have to pull code from git
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: and compile it yourself
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker i think if you always did upgrade. the smack is only a waterballoon oin worse case
[11:40] Shez Oyen: lol
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe it requires Robust running that version as well?
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: dev is moving to fast right now for test branch releases
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: Aine, no
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is running core robust
[11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: The avinantionmerge branch will perform a DB migration! Do a DB backup if you're testing it on a live region, or use a new region instead!
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya its always smart to have backups
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i would hope everyone is doing regular backups
[11:41] OtakuMegane Desu: As longh as it's well-tested and functional I don't think most will have an issue with upgrading. Always some holdouts or the odd cases where someone isn't really active, their region is sorta on autopilot.
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: for important work
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: if not prepare for pain eventually :)
[11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: <_<  >_>
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker i use oar. only wish the wrong grid url on asset copuld be fixt
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: it could, but it requires db mod
[11:42] Tom.Frost what is the timeline anyway? for the avinationmerge branch to go into master?
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: when its ready :)
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say we have a lot to do and a lot to test
[11:42] Tom.Frost personally, I use the metropolis version of opensim, so i'd have to wait for them to upgrade
[11:42] Richardus.Raymaker neb, i tried it. but afraid it's on the grid side wrong too
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: I would not suggest anyone who is doing anything serious try to use this branch right now
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: things may get broken, its hard to predict
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: but have fun beating it up :)
[11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: Anyone who wants a stable experience should be sticking with stable binary releases. Period.
[11:43] Tom.Frost of course :)
[11:44] Shy Robbiani: You could give it a try on the Metropolis Test grid, Tom
[11:44] Richardus.Raymaker any idea when 0.8.2 comes ?
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: even with the pain, ultimately it is worth it
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: there will be a ton of improvements
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: that far out weigh the pain
[11:44] Marcus Llewellyn: the avination merge might deserve a 0.9 release, IMO.
[11:45] Sheera Khan: Tom, I guess Metro admins will be fairly uick to provide an update
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker lucky. i only use plain opensim
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: OSGrid, Metro are pretty much plain opensim
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: just preconfigured to connect to those services
[11:46] Marcus Llewellyn: a few modules for seasoning. ;)
[11:46] Tom.Frost my production servers all run the metropolis version, but on my laptop i play with the master and avination branch  sometimes
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is very experimental with our releases
[11:46] Tom.Frost but itś mostly the configuration i want.. there's so many options, and the metro distro has all those set right :)
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: they are always the latest code
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: most grids do not and should not adhere to that
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid does it so others do not have to
[11:47] Tom.Frost nebadon: being pretty new but isn osgrid set up just for that?
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: well originally yes
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: now it is more than that
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: but we do try to be the tip of the spear so to speak
[11:48] Marcus Llewellyn: Not that other grids shouldn't test master. It is awesome when they do that and provide feeback. But they will wisely keep that to a few test sims.
[11:49] Aine.Caoimhe how will you test the core services that OSG doesn't run?
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: yea anyone is free and encouraged to test the latest code
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I am just saying you really shouldnt rely on git master in production environment
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its risky
[11:49] Aine.Caoimhe (profiles, etc)
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: we have other grids
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: encitra, avacon, OSCC
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: plus others will test
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i cant test everything :)
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: that is why its better to get involved sooner then later
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: takes out some of the sting
[11:50] Shy Robbiani: the Metropolis Test grid provides nightly updates of the actual development... it's vanilla Opensim code without Metro-specific code
[11:50] Sheera.Khan as long as the protocol doesn't change the various services are reasonably well separated
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Problem with testing master is that it still doesn't seem to catch issues until the code is used on the main grid.
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is nice because we have such a diverse group of people
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: we have most of the bases covered when it comes to testing
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: we know very quickly when something breaks
[11:51] Shez Oyen: lol
[11:51] Marcus Llewellyn: "Why can't I TP" "Can anyone else TP" "Is LBSA down? I can't TP?" Etc, etc, etc. etc
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: well that and we dont upgrade the entire grid at once
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: so its not so hard to fall back
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Someone mentioned modules. I've been using the OpenSimBirds module in a couple of regions. The people who have seen it in use just love it.
[11:52] OtakuMegane Desu: You get a pretty wide variaety of versions and configurations on OSGrid
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: an upgrade on OSgrid rarely means being locked out of the grid entirely
[11:52] vegaslon plutonian: I heard that bird module leaks memory
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: vegaslon: I haven't checked. The regions get restarted daily.
[11:52] Sheera.Khan some birds tend to leak ;-)
[11:53] Marcus Llewellyn: all the codez leek memoareez.
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: OpenSiv
[11:53] Shy Robbiani: lol
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, :D
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe interestingly Win 10 seems to be a lot better at getting some of that back
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe my regions have been using waaaaaaay less memory since I updated
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, updated from what to what?
[11:54] vegaslon plutonian: well they are bound to do something besides change the coat of paint
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe Win7 to Win10.....everythign else unchanged
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: oh
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe RAM use dropped by about 67%
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ah thats probably just newer .net
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: more than windows version itself
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe don't *think* my .NET version changed although perhaps it did
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe but was pretty surprising
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: im sure the latest .net is extremely optimized
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe dropping from ~2 GB of RAM down to will under 1GB
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe on one sim it dropped from using just over 700MB to using about 175MB
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya there was a .net upgrade right around widows 10 release
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe so was quite a shock
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: but im sure the kernel helps too
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: Windows 10 has been fairly good experience
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: though on my laptop there is a Windows update that will not install
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe yes, for me too, once I disabled most of its spying activities
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: and may possibly be jamming up other updates
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: KB3093266
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker Let me guess the windows edge flash update
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: seems like the entire planet is having trouble with it
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: no
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: the Cumulitive Update
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: many people are stuck
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker Not sure if i have one stuck. it seems it fixt itself later
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ive tried everything it wont go
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: some people are saying its better without it anyway
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: other than that Windows 10 has been good
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: as good or beter than 8.1 was
[12:00] Shy Robbiani: just updated two Windows 10 boxes today without any issues
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya ive upgraded about 1/2 dozen laptops now
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: WIn10 certainly boots faster.
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: mine was the only one that had some trouble
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker oh yes. on sssd i think 15-20 seconbds. no time to get my drinks etc.
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker that's including bios
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: my dads lenovo was soo slow on windows 10
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: until i patched the bios
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: even without SSD it starts faster. Takes longer sometimes to do the actual log in.
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: now its nice and fast
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker win8 where already fast
[12:01] Tom.Frost isn't that the trick with win10? they just boot up nothing, then when you log in they actually start everything
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: thats kind of been that way since Windows NT Tom
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: that was on of the big selling points of NT
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Tom, could be. Linux is a bit like that too. A lot of user related stuff only starts after you log in.
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: they have just been refining it over the years
[12:03] Tom.Frost andrew: actually, with that systemd abomination, things like your webserver won't even start until it gets a request....
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Really? Haven't heard that before.
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: That seems kind of stupic.
[12:04] Sheera.Khan ealier that was what inetd was for ^^
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker Sounds not logic
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: -c +d
[12:04] Tom.Frost yeah :)
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: my server runs systemd, i havent even noticed
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: i dont go that deep though
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: i imagine for someone who is set in thier ways
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: its like going from windows to mac
[12:04] Sheera.Khan and my pc is running systemd and apache as well...
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: my webserver is already running and since I only put it to sleep or hibernate it is always there when i wake it up.
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: you want to punch things
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:04] Sheera.Khan I don't see that behaviour though
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, :)
[12:05] Richardus.Raymaker that's only bug in win10. use hibernate. not sleep. it seems to assign to the wrong screen when it's awake. also soemtimes the second screen is not detected or some problem like that
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I'm still not convinced of the worth of systemd. I still don't like having lost runlevels. They were also useful.
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: i am running OpenSUSE Tumbleweed with new KDE Plasma 5 on my workstation
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: its really nice
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: KDE always did look pretty.
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi:
[12:07] Tom.Frost xmonad all the way here :) fancy distracting window managers....
[12:08] Tom.Frost good luck with all the merging and stuff! i'll see if and where i can help out (w/ oscc too)
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya maybe I will have more info about OSCC next week
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: wow. that hour went by quickly.
[12:09] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim Dev        0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: ok well if no one else needs me for anything I think I am going to get going as well, eat and work :) fun stuff
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